90 & 45 Degree Shooting Boards

[Rick Hickman]

Hey all,

I am trying to put together a shooting board (first one), and I have followed Derek Cohen's images and outlines on his website. I am having a difficult time getting the fence on the 90 degree deck to remain square. I have put a bolt through, with an oversized hole to allow for clearance, but I find when I go to tighten it down, it still wants to pull the fence out of square ever so slightly. I have left the blade out the way I normally would have it projecting when in use, as noted in the article by Derek, but I am still finding when I lock it down, it wants to pull out of square. Any idea what I might try to do to hold it in place without movement when I go to lock it down?

My second shooting conundrum comes in the form of long edge case miter work. I have tried to make a doney's ear, with little success, and I am finding it very difficult to fine tune it to get the 45 degree angle to be square in all planes, as well as hold the donkey's ear contraption against my fence. As a result, I am thinking about going to a 45 degree shooting board, where the plane is running against a 45 degree angled runner, and the piece lies flat on the deck of the shooting board, as it would on a 90 degree setup. My concern with that one comes in the form of getting the fence square to the runner, since I am struggling on the 90 degree fence already. I think I would have an easier time setting the long runner up at 45 degrees since I can work to a 45 degree angle along its length with a handplane, and so that would take some of my donkey's ear trouble away I think.

It would be greatly appreciated if someone could give some input on donkey's ear adjustment, and or, some input on the 45 degree runner shooting board alternative; effectiveness and ease of setup.

I have been through the forums and the internet, it hasn't helped much lol

Thanks for your input,
RB

[Ed Mitchell]

Jig-making isn't for everyone. Maybe consider buying? Tico Vogt makes shooting boards that are dialed in and will last.

[Jim Koepke]

I have put a bolt through, with an oversized hole to allow for clearance, but I find when I go to tighten it down, it still wants to pull the fence out of square ever so slightly.

The oversized hole may be the culprit. If the fence is made to be adjustable, the bolt/joint near the action should be rock solid. For me it works best if all the bolts are rock solid. Minor adjustments can be made with tape or shims.

Of course everyone has their own methods and are likely different than those used in my work.

Here is an old post of mine on making a donkey's ear shooting board > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?157217 < it uses dadoes to seat the top of the board. This allowed for shimming with small pieces cut from a business card.

Another post on the subject > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?242236 < has a lot of other members solutions for shooting angles.

You will need to become a contributor to see the images. (well worth $6 a year)

And another > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?244777 < This one is about converting my old shooting board into an ambidextrous shooting board. It also has a few different methods used to shoot angles.

There are many ways to shoot precise angles.

jtk

[James Pallas]

I built an ambidextrous shooting board with an adjustable fence an adapter for 45’s and a donkeys ear. It works very well for me. Shooting is a bit of when the stars align. As Jim says shims of various types are part of it usually. The donkeys ear works fine. It does take some fiddling being 2 planes to work in. If your work is not very flat or square it will drive you to drink. Shims test pieces and very well prepared material is part of it. I’m not certain that an ambidextrous board that was accurate both ways without adjustment made out of wood is a reality. After a while you get the hang of it, a piece of tape here a business card there or straighten the work and try again.

[Jim Koepke]

I built an ambidextrous shooting board with an adjustable fence an adapter for 45’s and a donkeys ear. It works very well for me. Shooting is a bit of when the stars align. As Jim says shims of various types are part of it usually. The donkeys ear works fine. It does take some fiddling being 2 planes to work in. If your work is not very flat or square it will drive you to drink. Shims test pieces and very well prepared material is part of it. I’m not certain that an ambidextrous board that was accurate both ways without adjustment made out of wood is a reality. After a while you get the hang of it, a piece of tape here a business card there or straighten the work and try again.

A little finessing of the work piece via the holding hand also helps at times.

jtk

[Charles Guest]

Your chances of success will increase greatly if you cut the parts for your shooting board(s) on an expensive and dead accurate, glass-smooth cutting European table saw with sliding table (Hammer, Felder, et al), bore bolt holes with a drill press, and bring whatever machinery to bear that almost guarantees accuracy. Of course, then you might come to the rather logical and rational conclusion that you could probably do without the board. Which you could.

Unless the cases you build are dead nuts square, putting dead nuts mitered trim on it, for instance, will leave a gap somewhere. You can make the miter fit, but there will be a gap between the trim and the case near the miter and it could be more than trivial. The point is, is that all miters will need a little judicious hand trimming to fit the case without gaps at the miter or between the trim and the case (or the latter minimized). Flushing up the miter isn't enough. Your half-degree off shooting board may be just fine in other words. Don't kill yourself over it. You're going to have to adjust miters and square ends anyway with chisel or block plane in hand. It's called trimming to fit.

If you want to critique somebody's ability to work very accurately look underneath a piece of mitered trim to see if there's a gap between the trim and the case. Of course this presumes building in a style that includes crown, waist, and base moldings/molded plinths in the first place. Spare/lean styles avoid this indignity altogether.

[Derek Cohen]

Hey all,

I am trying to put together a shooting board (first one), and I have followed Derek Cohen's images and outlines on his website. I am having a difficult time getting the fence on the 90 degree deck to remain square. I have put a bolt through, with an oversized hole to allow for clearance, but I find when I go to tighten it down, it still wants to pull the fence out of square ever so slightly. I have left the blade out the way I normally would have it projecting when in use, as noted in the article by Derek, but I am still finding when I lock it down, it wants to pull out of square. Any idea what I might try to do to hold it in place without movement when I go to lock it down?

....
RB

Rick, I suspect that you are referring to this shooting board ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ShootingBoardsfortheLNHandtoolEvent_html_m26ce620f .jpg

The holes are elongated to slide back-and-forth, with the one at the shooting side a tight fit nevertheless. There is no play ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ShootingBoardsfortheLNHandtoolEvent_html_m605081d2 .jpg

The far end slot can have a millimetre each side to provide some micro adjustment, if you need.

The reason for the larger bolts is that the fence is clamped down firmly to prevent any movement. I still have one of these, and it has not lost any accuracy.



My second shooting conundrum comes in the form of long edge case miter work. I have tried to make a doney's ear, with little success, and I am finding it very difficult to fine tune it to get the 45 degree angle to be square in all planes, as well as hold the donkey's ear contraption against my fence.

A donkey's ear, such as this one ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ShootingforPerfection_html_63f3db76.jpg

... has multiple points for adjustment ..... and just as an aside, it is easier to adjust for perfection than to build for it :)

The DE (and mitre fence) connects to the adjustable straight fence ....

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ShootingforPerfection_html_11842143.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/RunningFencefortheShootingBoard_html_m4ea5c3a8.jpg


... and the DE also has adjustable feet (i.e. screws) underneath ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Setting%20Up%20and%20Using%20a%20Shooting%20Board4 _html_2fa6eac0.jpg

Don't forget to add a side fence. This helps the plane track straight and not pull away from the platform.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/RunningFencefortheShootingBoard_html_m536ec68c.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rick Hickman]

Jig-making isn't for everyone. Maybe consider buying? Tico Vogt makes shooting boards that are dialed in and will last.

Hey now, where's the fun in that? He does make very nice boards, but I will not be purchasing one anytime soon.


The oversized hole may be the culprit. If the fence is made to be adjustable, the bolt/joint near the action should be rock solid. For me it works best if all the bolts are rock solid. Minor adjustments can be made with tape or shims.

Of course everyone has their own methods and are likely different than those used in my work.

Here is an old post of mine on making a donkey's ear shooting board > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?157217 < it uses dadoes to seat the top of the board. This allowed for shimming with small pieces cut from a business card.

Another post on the subject > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?242236 < has a lot of other members solutions for shooting angles.

You will need to become a contributor to see the images. (well worth $6 a year)

And another > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?244777 < This one is about converting my old shooting board into an ambidextrous shooting board. It also has a few different methods used to shoot angles.

There are many ways to shoot precise angles.

jtk

Thank you. I have become a contributor, quite a few ways to skin a cat! I think what is missing in my "system" is shims.


I built an ambidextrous shooting board with an adjustable fence an adapter for 45’s and a donkeys ear. It works very well for me. Shooting is a bit of when the stars align. As Jim says shims of various types are part of it usually. The donkeys ear works fine. It does take some fiddling being 2 planes to work in. If your work is not very flat or square it will drive you to drink. Shims test pieces and very well prepared material is part of it. I’m not certain that an ambidextrous board that was accurate both ways without adjustment made out of wood is a reality. After a while you get the hang of it, a piece of tape here a business card there or straighten the work and try again.

The work is definitely flat and square. I am going to take the advice and try some shims.


Your chances of success will increase greatly if you cut the parts for your shooting board(s) on an expensive and dead accurate, glass-smooth cutting European table saw with sliding table (Hammer, Felder, et al), bore bolt holes with a drill press, and bring whatever machinery to bear that almost guarantees accuracy. Of course, then you might come to the rather logical and rational conclusion that you could probably do without the board. Which you could.

Unless the cases you build are dead nuts square, putting dead nuts mitered trim on it, for instance, will leave a gap somewhere. You can make the miter fit, but there will be a gap between the trim and the case near the miter and it could be more than trivial. The point is, is that all miters will need a little judicious hand trimming to fit the case without gaps at the miter or between the trim and the case (or the latter minimized). Flushing up the miter isn't enough. Your half-degree off shooting board may be just fine in other words. Don't kill yourself over it. You're going to have to adjust miters and square ends anyway with chisel or block plane in hand. It's called trimming to fit.

If you want to critique somebody's ability to work very accurately look underneath a piece of mitered trim to see if there's a gap between the trim and the case. Of course this presumes building in a style that includes crown, waist, and base moldings/molded plinths in the first place. Spare/lean styles avoid this indignity altogether.

Thats a great set of points. I do not have access to any of that level of accuracy, so handtools are where the work to fit must shine. I am really just concerned with the shooting boards for making sure the boards are square on the ends for the foundations of marking joinery, and for box building (miters and splines). I don't much prefer trim on my builds.


Rick, I suspect that you are referring to this shooting board ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ShootingBoardsfortheLNHandtoolEvent_html_m26ce620f .jpg

The holes are elongated to slide back-and-forth, with the one at the shooting side a tight fit nevertheless. There is no play ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ShootingBoardsfortheLNHandtoolEvent_html_m605081d2 .jpg

The far end slot can have a millimetre each side to provide some micro adjustment, if you need.

The reason for the larger bolts is that the fence is clamped down firmly to prevent any movement. I still have one of these, and it has not lost any accuracy.




A donkey's ear, such as this one ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ShootingforPerfection_html_63f3db76.jpg

... has multiple points for adjustment ..... and just as an aside, it is easier to adjust for perfection than to build for it :)

The DE (and mitre fence) connects to the adjustable straight fence ....

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ShootingforPerfection_html_11842143.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/RunningFencefortheShootingBoard_html_m4ea5c3a8.jpg


... and the DE also has adjustable feet (i.e. screws) underneath ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Setting%20Up%20and%20Using%20a%20Shooting%20Board4 _html_2fa6eac0.jpg

Don't forget to add a side fence. This helps the plane track straight and not pull away from the platform.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/RunningFencefortheShootingBoard_html_m536ec68c.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

Yes those are they Derek. I need to incorporate the through bolt on the donkey's ear, and the levelling feet. I am thinking I need to go to some MDF for flatness. After checking the plywood I was using, none seemed to be very flat at all. I think that is contributing.

I found that after fussing around with the 90 degree board yesterday, the joints were close to 90. My fence isn't far enough along the perpendicular, so there was a bit of the back edge end grain on the working board, that wasn't being cut away.

When you guys are using the plane on the board, is there a bit of play on your plane in tipping side to side, off 90 degrees? I am finding mine has some want to wobble off 90 degrees, so the shoot starts square, and the end of the board is now off square. I will take some pictures later if I have time.

Thanks everyone for the input. It is much appreciated.

[Derek Cohen]

When you guys are using the plane on the board, is there a bit of play on your plane in tipping side to side, off 90 degrees? I am finding mine has some want to wobble off 90 degrees, so the shoot starts square, and the end of the board is now off square. I will take some pictures later if I have time.

Rick, the side fence will sort this out.

https://i.postimg.cc/cHp1TTry/Buildinga-Strike-Block-Plane-html-6e20bb98.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Jig-making isn't for everyone. Maybe consider buying? Tico Vogt makes shooting boards that are dialed in and will last.

Making shooting boards and other bench accessories is one of the ways to learn woodworking. If a person can not make simple bench hooks, shooting boards or other simple bench helpers how will they ever be able to make a cabinet or other furniture?


Your chances of success will increase greatly if you cut the parts for your shooting board(s) on an expensive and dead accurate, glass-smooth cutting European table saw with sliding table (Hammer, Felder, et al), bore bolt holes with a drill press, and bring whatever machinery to bear that almost guarantees accuracy.

People have made very accurate shooting boards using hand tools. No need to wait on being able to buy machines before starting.

jtk

[Charles Guest]

Making shooting boards and other bench accessories is one of the ways to learn woodworking. If a person can not make simple bench hooks, shooting boards or other simple bench helpers how will they ever be able to make a cabinet or other furniture?



People have made very accurate shooting boards using hand tools. No need to wait on being able to buy machines before starting.

jtk

I was being facetious Jim, as in making shooting boards when you might already have super accurate machinery -- a bit of a silly enterprise. "Hey, look at my shooting board!" "Hey, here's the $30K worth of machinery I used to make it." See? What is the bloody board going to do for you that the machines won't? (nothing, actually). That sort of thing. Oh well. Chalk it up to insomnia/middle of the night post.

[Jim Koepke]

I was being facetious Jim, as in making shooting boards when you might already have super accurate machinery -- a bit of a silly enterprise. "Hey, look at my shooting board!" "Hey, here's the $30K worth of machinery I used to make it." See? What is the bloody board going to do for you that the machines won't? (nothing, actually). That sort of thing. Oh well. Chalk it up to insomnia/middle of the night post.

It sometimes makes me wonder how many people, new to the hobby, have given up after receiving such a reply. One who occasionally communicates with me through email did after being mocked on this forum after asking for help.

jtk

[Charles Guest]

It sometimes makes me wonder how many people, new to the hobby, have given up after receiving such a reply. One who occasionally communicates with me through email did after being mocked on this forum after asking for help.

jtk

Probably fewer than those who come to the realization they need a $30K investment in power tools in order to do 'hand tool' woodworking. Or so it would seem.

Anybody who quits because of any kind of forum post was hanging by a thread to begin with.

If I drop ~$10K on an Austrian made Hammer K3, plus likely electrical upgrades to the shop, there's an exactly zero chance I'm not using that baby to crosscut and miter every single workpiece from that moment forward. I'm bloody well not using one to make shooting boards. It's ludicrous on its face.

[George Yetka]

Have you tried squaring up the fence and clamping 2 temp boards in front and behind before cranking down the bolts?

As for the donkey ear I glued a 3/4x3/4 x 3" piece to it and it allowed me to use a small clamp to hold it to my 90 fence.

The Tico setup is very nice but super expensive.

[Jim Koepke]

Probably fewer than those who come to the realization they need a $30K investment in power tools in order to do 'hand tool' woodworking. Or so it would seem.

Anybody who quits because of any kind of forum post was hanging by a thread to begin with.

If I drop ~$10K on an Austrian made Hammer K3, plus likely electrical upgrades to the shop, there's an exactly zero chance I'm not using that baby to crosscut and miter every single workpiece from that moment forward. I'm bloody well not using one to make shooting boards. It's ludicrous on its face.

This is mostly a hand tool section of a woodworking forum. My most expensive power tool is a 14" bandsaw. It is easily more than half of my power tool investment. It isn't even 10% of my hand tool investment. That is with most of my hand tools being purchased at yard sale prices.

People like Clint Jones, David Weaver and Stan Covington were not hanging by a thread. They were serious contributors to the pool of information many come here to seek. They are still around. Though they are no longer on this forum to share their years of wisdom.

Some very good sources of information have left over flippant remarks. Some very good people seeking information have also been pushed away by frivolity and mockery when seeking help with the same problems many of us asked about when we were new to woodworking.

jtk

[Rush Paul]

People like Clint Jones, David Weaver and Stan Covington were not hanging by a thread. They were serious contributors to the pool of information many come here to seek. They are still around. Though they are no longer on this forum to share their years of wisdom.

Some very good sources of information have left over flippant remarks. Some very good people seeking information have also been pushed away by frivolity and mockery when seeking help with the same problems many of us asked about when we were new to woodworking.

Jim, thank you for this reply. I greatly appreciate the gentle push to cordial conversations that you make here. Sawmill Creek has not been a favorite site for me to pose questions or share thoughts because of responses I often see. It is a pleasure seeing your comments.

[Ed Mitchell]

Making shooting boards and other bench accessories is one of the ways to learn woodworking. If a person can not make simple bench hooks, shooting boards or other simple bench helpers how will they ever be able to make a cabinet or other furniture?
jtk

Potentially, very easily and sometimes with great results, too. I think it depends on the reason behind your "can not make simple bench hooks...".

I've met amazingly talented woodworkers who absolutely hate making jigs. Simply will not make them, period. Hey, to each their own, right? Well, there's your answer. They can't make jigs because they despise jig-making so, but they can and do make beautiful furniture.
As you said, it's merely one of the ways to learn, not the only way.

But people who don't like to do things will often erect barriers, ergo my suggestion. Now we have the OPs response, so we know it's not applicable in this case, and the many other excellent suggestions can be followed.

[Adam Cruea]

It sometimes makes me wonder how many people, new to the hobby, have given up after receiving such a reply. One who occasionally communicates with me through email did after being mocked on this forum after asking for help.

jtk

The response you're referencing is one reason I really don't come here any more. I got tired of some of the BS. From some of the other posts on this thread, I can see that my time is yet again limited here and I shall remain in different pastures.

Anyway. . .for Rick. . .

On the bottom of the fence for your shooting board, take some Loctite or contact cement and put a thin layer on the bottom of the fence, then put some 80 or 120 grit sandpaper on the bottom of the fence, making sure you have no bubbles and stuff. Trim to fit so there's nothing overhanging the edge of your fence.

I had to do this for my hickory shooting board as the surface on plane-finished hickory is almost glassy. I use a 1/4 bolt with a hand-twist knob to tighten mine down.

[Robert Eiffert]

I also tried an adjustable fence.

Easier/more consistent to use a piece of blue tape at one end or other, it seems.

[Derek Cohen]

Just to clarify, in case this was not understood: the reason for a microadjustable fence is to set it up at the start - in other words, hopefully once only - so that it is accurate. Then crank the bolts down. It is not used to adjust the fence for angled shooting. The microadjust simply makes it easier to get it accurate. It is a pain in the butt to have to use shims each time because the fence is not perfectly square. It is many years since I last adjusted the fence.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

It is many years since I last adjusted the fence.

It has been many years since having to add or remove tape from my shooting board's fence.

jtk

[Dan Hulbert]

I made my shooting board after watching Paul Sellers video. No need for a shop full of electron eaters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ypbvcxb-8M

[Anuj Prateek]

Hey all,

I am trying to put together a shooting board (first one), and I have followed Derek Cohen's images and outlines on his website. I am having a difficult time getting the fence on the 90 degree deck to remain square. I have put a bolt through, with an oversized hole to allow for clearance, but I find when I go to tighten it down, it still wants to pull the fence out of square ever so slightly. I have left the blade out the way I normally would have it projecting when in use, as noted in the article by Derek, but I am still finding when I lock it down, it wants to pull out of square. Any idea what I might try to do to hold it in place without movement when I go to lock it down?

My second shooting conundrum comes in the form of long edge case miter work. I have tried to make a doney's ear, with little success, and I am finding it very difficult to fine tune it to get the 45 degree angle to be square in all planes, as well as hold the donkey's ear contraption against my fence. As a result, I am thinking about going to a 45 degree shooting board, where the plane is running against a 45 degree angled runner, and the piece lies flat on the deck of the shooting board, as it would on a 90 degree setup. My concern with that one comes in the form of getting the fence square to the runner, since I am struggling on the 90 degree fence already. I think I would have an easier time setting the long runner up at 45 degrees since I can work to a 45 degree angle along its length with a handplane, and so that would take some of my donkey's ear trouble away I think.

It would be greatly appreciated if someone could give some input on donkey's ear adjustment, and or, some input on the 45 degree runner shooting board alternative; effectiveness and ease of setup.

I have been through the forums and the internet, it hasn't helped much lol

Thanks for your input,
RB

I built a basic shooting board. Fence is attached using bolts through one enlarged hole and one tight fitting hole. If my fence moves slightly then a gentle tap with small hammer fixes the alignment. Said that I prefer putting tape as shim as required. Same fence moves into separate holes for 45°. I get it mostly correct and then shim if needed.

Shim: Usually I use painters tape or clear tape. But they are thicker than required on occasion. I bought a assorted set of shim stock (few dollars) long back and that has selection of thinner shims if needed.

Donkey ears: Never built one. I use fence on hand plane for the purpose.