EVS drill press

[Rick Potter]

I have a Delta drill press that has the Reeves drive system for variable speed. It is OK, but I occasionally have a problem with it grabbing the belt and stopping dead. I have lubed and checked it several times, and usually limit it to about 2/3 speed when it starts shaking to warn me the belt is vibrating and preparing to lock up again. So far the belt is still good.

I am running out of patience (and apparently ability to fix it). I have looked at the two Nova models, but there are things I don't like about each.

So, I notice that Rikon is building tools with electronic speed controlled motors, and they just brought out a full size EVS Lathe.

Finally the question.

Has anyone heard about a possible Rikon EVS drill press coming out soon?

[Dave Sabo]

No.

but Nova makes two drill presses based on their elect. variable speed motors.

https://www.teknatool.com/product-category/drill-presses/

[Chris Luke]

I am running out of patience (and apparently ability to fix it). I have looked at the two Nova models, but there are things I don't like about each.

Out of curiosity, what don't you like about the Nova models?

I have the Voyager and quite like it. Not going to try to convince you otherwise, just wondering what the issue is.

[Rod Dilyard]

I've been looking for a new drill press as well. Powermatic has an EVS drill press (2820 EVS) although availability is into October. There are a few reviews on YouTube that point out a design flaw in the table tilt "return to zero" mechanism, but other than that it seems like a nice machine. I'm still undecided and will wait to see if there are any sales closer to the holidays.

[Roger Feeley]

I wondered why drill presses didn’t get on the Evs bandwagon. Maybe because nobody made them? I have a 40 year old craftsman 17” floor dp. The motor was making buzzy sounds so I converted it to evs. I don’t know much about the controllers and it lacks torque at extremely slow speeds. I don’t run it that way much so it’s not a big deal.

[Bill Dufour]

Roger, VFD controlled motors lose torque and hp pretty much in direct relation to hz and /or rpm. 60 hz is full power, 30 hz is half power and half torque, 15hz is 1/4 power etc.
Best bet is buy a older dp with a factory 3 phase motor and run it from a vfd. probably will be a better made unit then a new EVS machine. At least for under $700 complete.
Bill D

[Rick Potter]

Luke,

Personal preference.

The big one has more bells and whistles than I want or need. The small one I could live with, but the depth rod on the big one is not on the little one, and I use it a lot. I also like the split case for the ram on older style units, as you can lock the spindle anywhere you want for sanding or specialized work.

I am selling off some tools I seldom use, and could afford either one, but at these prices I am not willing to 'settle'. I would be looking to upgrade an old one, but don't have that much time to fool with it now.

Unless someone brings out a basic EVS unit I will probably keep messing with the one I have.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Roger, VFD controlled motors lose torque and hp pretty much in direct relation to hz and /or rpm. ...

My round-2-it plan is to convert my heavy duty drill press to VFD, but will swap the 1.5hp motor for 3hp (for 'torque recapture'). Currently, driven thru 2 belts and 3 stepped pulleys, it will reduce to 1 belt and a pair of stepped pulleys (seldom touched?). Or better, a C-face motor and direct drive, if I can devote enough time to motor mount design/build. VFD will handle the (240V) 1-phase conversion to 3-phase motor.

Likely the (tank-ish) frame can handle the extra Hp, but just as likely I'll never operate at full throttle anyway.

If someone else is contemplating this - and feels the need for >3600 rpm, then simply set the max Hz in the VFD as required, most will handle 200Hz, some as high as 400Hz (=24,000rpm on a nominal 3600 rpm motor). ...Obviously, with careful selection of cutters! You could argue all the bearings will take a beating, but with SF<1 typical of a DP, it should be manageable.;)

[Rod Dilyard]

The low torque problem that Bill describes probably explains why Powermatic put a 2-speed gearbox on their EVS drill press.

[Ronald Blue]

Trying to envision what would cause it to lock on the belt. When you inspect the pulleys and belt what do you find when this happens? With a Reeves system you have the controlling pulley and the slave that simply follows the lead of the controlling pulley. It will normally be doing the opposite of the controlling pulley. Of course if you are mid range they both will be in the middle. To be honest I think I would try a new belt but maybe you have. I say this because the only scenario I can picture in my small mind is at some speed ranges the belt width varies just enough to cause pulley "bounce". Eventually getting worse until it locks as you say. Anyway my opinion and $2 bucks will get you a gas station coffee.

[Derek Cohen]

Luke,

Personal preference.

The big one has more bells and whistles than I want or need. The small one I could live with, but the depth rod on the big one is not on the little one, and I use it a lot. I also like the split case for the ram on older style units, as you can lock the spindle anywhere you want for sanding or specialized work.

I am selling off some tools I seldom use, and could afford either one, but at these prices I am not willing to 'settle'. I would be looking to upgrade an old one, but don't have that much time to fool with it now.

Unless someone brings out a basic EVS unit I will probably keep messing with the one I have.

Rick, I have the Voyager. Yes, it has more bells-and-whistles than I need, but it also has all the features I want. It is not a cheap drill, but it is also not wildly expensive compared with a tablesaw or similar. I just use those features important to me. These perform superbly: power and grunt forever, long reach, easy setting drill speed, setting the ideal drill speed for each drill type and size, and into material type, not to forget the depth stop and reversing ability. There is more but these are worth the entry price.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Charles Coolidge]

I've been looking for a new drill press as well. Powermatic has an EVS drill press (2820 EVS) although availability is into October. There are a few reviews on YouTube that point out a design flaw in the table tilt "return to zero" mechanism, but other than that it seems like a nice machine. I'm still undecided and will wait to see if there are any sales closer to the holidays.

I'm loving my new PM 2820 EVS it's awesome. The return to zero is a laughable joke but irrelevant. I would never trust the pin for zero anyway without checking zero with my spindle square and if I'm doing that I'll just dial it in at zero and tighten the large hex nut and be done with it. I dialed mine in to zero within .001 over the 6 inches of the dual indicator spindle square, easy.

The 2820EVS has a larger table than the Nova, a more substantial head I had to use an engine shop crane to install it, and the table turns 90 degrees left or right to drill the end of legs etc. vs the Nova 45 degrees.

Everything about the 2820EVS is BEEFY wow never saw a drill press table with that volume of cast iron ribbing under it. The ribs are 2 inches tall, and a pair of them on the left side, another pair on the right, a pair of ribs at the back and one at the front with additional V ribbing between. While I had the spindle square installed I put an arm across the front of the table and leaned on it, barely could get it to deflect .003.

Simplicity. Press ON dial the speed with a knob and get to drilling.

The depth stop and lock is absolution BRILLIANT!! Man I'm loving that.

I did purchase a higher end chuck, Llambrich keyless. The PM2820 spindle bore measured about .0002 run out. Cleaning the bore twice and turning the Llambrich 180 degrees once produced a final runout with a ground 1/2 inch rod chucked in the drill of .0005 inch.

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[John Kananis]

Rick, I have the smaller nova (really happy with it). It does have a mechanical stop but not a rod. It's on the base of the hand crank mechanism like on the smaller benchtop deltas. Personally, I do like the rod but this "works".

[Rick Potter]

Thanks Ronald, It seems like the belt is too loose, but I fail to see any way to tighten it. Over a medium rpm it starts to vibrate until it locks up on the front pully. Then I use a wrench on a bolt in the chuck to reverse it until it lets go. Lubed it many times, no rust, no damage I can see. I have always wondered if I could tighten the front pully, but there is nothing in the manual, and I don't want to mess it up by getting too adventurous.


Derek, It's not the money, it just has too many gizmos I will never use. Heck, I don't even know how to put pics on this site without spending over an hour to figure it out each time (not the site problem, it's getting them off the computer). I have enough problems turning on my MM CU 300, with its combo of 8 buttons switches or shutoffs. I am competent in mechanics (except for Reeves pulleys obviously) but an absolute idiot with electronic devices.

John, It is really a nice machine, but for me, the Rod and split case are non starters. Just personal preference.

I have looked extensively at both Nova's but have not seen the PM in person yet, but I believe it does not have the split case, sheave, housing, or whatever it is called.

Thanks for all the info everybody, as mentioned I asked a while back about what to do with my stalling problem, and tried all the suggestions. It got better for a while, and maybe if I lube it again it will work for another year.

You folks are very patient, thank you.

[Larry Frank]

I have read this thread and quite a few similar ones. I have hd the Nova Voyager for a couple of years now and really like it. I understand that some do not like all the electronics and I guess I kind of understand that. The one thing that I do not care for is the fact that the Nova only table tilts 45 degrees and I think that this is a major flaw. However, the Voyager does have a substantially more powerful motor and wider speed range.

I put together a table comparison of the two drill presses based on the data on their respective websites.

463306 463307

[Rod Dilyard]

Seems like we kinda highjacked this thread, but I guess the simple answer to the original question is "no". So for those of us like Rick who want an EVS drill press it looks like the choices are Nova, Powermatic or build your own. Larry, thanks for putting together the comparison table. Based on that alone the choice is pretty clear, yet I find myself leaning toward the Powermatic. Maybe if Nova used something other than that membrane switch control panel. I really dislike those and have visions of them looking like the ones at the gas station pumps that are always cracked or torn open and you can't read the labels. I know that's not going to happen in a home shop setting, but like Charles said I just want to turn it on and drill a hole and easily change the speed when I need to. I'm usually a pretty rational person and use comparison charts for a lot of major purchases, so I don't know how to explain this. Maybe it's the included alignment lasers and LED lights?

[Edward Weber]

Regarding the reeves drive issue.
remove the belt and throw it away, clean the entire unit until there is nothing left to clean. Then install a link belt.
The main issue with the binding is the belt.
As the belt wears it spalls off rubber which sticks to the shaft and binds up or restricts the free movement of the pulley walls. Link belts do not degrade in the same manner, so there is no nore binding.

[Charles Coolidge]

Larry, thanks for putting together the comparison table. Based on that alone the choice is pretty clear

I think the table needs to be further expanded. Here's my list of top reasons I would choose the Powermatic over the Nova.

1. Powermatic has a 20 inch swing vs only 18 for the Nova. Swing is a top criteria and for close to the same price the Nova comes up short.

2. Powermatic rigidity and resistance to table deflection under load has the Nova beat. Look at the underside of the Nova table (I did) now look at the Powermatic it's not even a contest. The Nova also has limited areas for clamping on the underside vs the Powermatic has large full table depth flat wings for clamping, plus plenty of flats further in.

3. Powermatic has a patented innovative depth stop and spindle lock that's brilliant. The Nova's depth stop design is 80 years old. I have used those old style depth stops, most have laughable accuracy and repeatability. Also the chunk of cast iron clamped to the spindle to hold up the threaded rod has gotten in my way many times over the years, that's gone on the Powermatic. The Powermatic handles are also reversible to the left or right side. By the way the Powermatic pull handles are thick and BEEFY one of the first things I noticed.

4. Powermatic table is stationary vs the Nova table spins 360 degrees. The Nova design is just more opportunity for slop and inaccuracy imo.

5. Powermatic has a larger table and an innovative table design with a removeable cast iron insert you can replace with the Microjig table, downdraft table, or any jig table you can think up. The Nova's table looks dated, pretty much the same table design that's been around for 50+ years.

6. Powermatic table tilts 90 degrees left or right for drilling the end of longer stock. In conjunction with the removeable table insert all manner of end drilling jigs could be employed.

7. Powermatic has a low gear drive for HOGGING, the Nova does not. My choice was Powermatic's 1hp with a low gear drive vs Nova's 1.75hp in amps that 8amps vs 10amps. I'll take the gear drive and low gear GRUNT.

8. Powermatic has lasers for centering. I had (past tenths) no use for laser until recently when I combined the Powermatic's laser centering with my Skoal centering microscope. At 45x magnification trying to position the drill hole X within the scopes field of view was a bit time consuming. Now I use the Powermatic lasers to quickly center on my drill hole X then quickly ultra center it with the centering microscope, that's proven to be a brilliant productivity combination lately.

9. Powermatic has LED lighting. I have blinding lighting in my workshop. 36 four foot Daylight bulbs but of course with a drill press the head tends to block light. The Powermatic LED lighting has proven really helpful especially when using the 45x centering microscope.

10. Powermatic table surface finish is WAY nicer than the Nova. It's as good as higher end table saw cast iron surfaces. Its as nice as my SawStop ICS and Powermatic 15HH planer. Here's a photo of a Nova table, horrible. That's literally the surface finish of my budget Craftsman table saw from the early 1980's.

11. Table accuracy my Powermatic 2820EVS table is dead flat. I went over it with a 24 inch precision Starrett rule checking at several points front to back, side to side, diagonal and I could not get a .0015 feeler gauge under it anywhere. I really expected it to have some flat issues given the size and removable insert so was kind of stunned. But I think that speaks to the rigidity and ribbing under the table it's a brute.

12. The Powermatic has square center inserts which I can make easily. The Nova has round inserts. I don't have a lathe so that seems problematic. I chew these inserts up and replace them regularly.

13. The Powermatic passed a nickel test up through it's top RPM 3,600. With a hand on the table no vibration was felt until about 3,100 RPM and after it was kind of a buzz or tingling the nickel was rock steady. Can't speak for the Nova on this.

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The Nova to me is lipstick on a pig. They put a cool motor, drive, software on a 60 year old drill press design. There's 1 or 2 youtube reviews that arrived at the same conclusion. Certainly its an improvement over a plain jane drill press that lacks the advanced electronic drive but beyond that it's your grand dads drill press. Powermatic took a step back and re-thought drill press design. I don't know if I will ever use all these capabilities above but it's nice to have them. And long term I'll take a RPM pot and a couple toggle switches over a membrane switch.

The Powermatic is NOT perfect.

1. It's table zero centering pin is utterly useless, Powermatic should be embarrassed.

2. The plastic center table insert is also a joke. Malformed and not even close to flat, that's another embarrassment for an otherwise brilliant drill press with such high quality attention to detail.

3. The soft start is a bit too soft e.g. slow to come up to speed but that may just be me.

4. When they were painting the head they accidently got some yellow paint up inside the head's bore. That almost went VERY WRONG it jammed about 2 inches onto the column and we had a heck of a time trying to get it back off. After I removed the paint it easily slid on with just the right amount of resistance, felt like a precision fit but not too tight. I guess why just some paint gummed that up.

[Tom M King]

I've been wanting one of these for years, but never bad enough to pay that much for a drill press. I get by with my two old 1150's.

https://www.ellissaw.com/drill-press-9400/

[Brian Holcombe]

Flott makes an EVS, I just priced one out. The additional costs involved in bringing into the us caused me to look elsewhere even though I have really wanted a flott for a while.

Bought a Kira that was modified to work with a vfd but I may have to make some changes to get it exactly as I want for cutting with forstners.

[Roger Feeley]

The low torque problem that Bill describes probably explains why Powermatic put a 2-speed gearbox on their EVS drill press.
My jet lathe is evs and has two pulley positions.

thanks guys. I’ll probably just put some of the pulley adjustments back.

[Larry Frank]

Mr. Coolidge's comments are interesting.

"Lipstick on a pig" comment ?????

It is clear from his comments that he is looking at this from a machinist point of view with comments about a Centering microscope and measuring flatness with his Starret straight edge.

I use mine for woodworking and built a table for those uses. I have had no issues with the strength or deflection of the table. The Nova also has a significantly higher speed range. The low speed torque is very good and works well with large hole saws and Forstner bits. I use the electronic depth gauge on mine and works very well.

The only purpose that I had for posting a comparison table was to present the information without putting down either of the drill presses. One needs to pick equipment based upon their needs.

[Derek Cohen]

Mr. Coolidge's comments are interesting.

"Lipstick on a pig" comment ?????

It is clear from his comments that he is looking at this from a machinist point of view with comments about a Centering microscope and measuring flatness with his Starret straight edge.

I use mine for woodworking and built a table for those uses. I have had no issues with the strength or deflection of the table. The Nova also has a significantly higher speed range. The low speed torque is very good and works well with large hole saws and Forstner bits. I use the electronic depth gauge on mine and works very well.

The only purpose that I had for posting a comparison table was to present the information without putting down either of the drill presses. One needs to pick equipment based upon their needs.

Larry, this is a good post. I agree with all your points. What I want to emphasize is that I have no doubt that either of these saws would do a fine job. As mentioned before, I have the Nova Voyager, but before this I had and used a cheapish Taiwanese floor standing drill press for some 20 years.

A drill press is, in my opinion, one of the most important and versatile machines for a woodshop. I got by fairly well with the simple Taiwanese machine, and then spoilt myself with the Nova a few years ago.

Knowing it reasonably well by now, there are things I would love to modify - such as a square pillar in place of the round pillar to retain the position of the bit, but this is a universal issue for all drill presses.

The other issues are easily rectified. These include Wixey laser cross hairs for siting the bit, which is very helpful and I cannot fathom why it was left off the Voyager but added to the bench top edition. I added a down light, but very rarely use it. The whole idea that a drill press will use a cast iron table amuses me as this seems to me to be a vestige of the machinist days. I built my own table, which is what everyone does anyway. The size of the cast iron table is, therefore, irrelevant. For a floor standing machine, the need to fold away the table (to 90 degrees) is something I have not done in 30 years as a serious woodworker.

What I most appreciate in the Voyager is the computerised selection of drill bit size and speed, which has extended the life of my bits as well as made many of the actions so much easier. The computerised depth stop is fabulous, and there is a mechanical one as well when feeling lazy. I did change out the chuck for a keyless, and checked runout. This is, to all intents and purposes, non-existent.

Frankly, many of the other features go over my head, and the Voyager is a bit of a luxury machine for my needs and how I use it. But what the hell, I enjoy it, and am not trying to sell nor justify it. At the end of the day, there are few machines which offer variable speed, which was my prime reason for buying one, and all the remainder is gravy.

https://i.postimg.cc/BZk3R6PL/fence1.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mark e Kessler]

I have the voyager and find it good enough, i did change the chuck to Jacobs 9682D, I don’t think i have ever needed to turn the table to 90 and I have never found lasers in woodwork useful for anything but rough work so no loss there.

Who uses the stock table…i made one like most and it has a rectangular insert not that it matters, square and round work as well.

As far as a table finish goes, never noticed and i am picky and use/have higher end equipment i think the voyager is the only asian built piece i have, but again doesn’t matter who doesn’t build one to go on top…(probably someone, lol)

Although silly, the nickel test does indeed pass on the voyager

Your point #2 has me baffled, even if the pm table is more beefy the voyager isn’t sheet metal, where is your data on the deflection? We are drilling wood here (well, i am) not parts for battle ships…

Anyways, it’s not like i am a proponent of one over the other as a matter of fact I wanted to buy that PM DP but it was to new at the time and I just don’t like the new PM after growing up with the old PM (which really wasn’t that great either) and another machine came up that took my money at the time. Later in the year the Voyager presented itself and i bought it…

I actually do not use any of the settings on it and just manually adjust the speed, I tried a lot of them like the auto start, the turn off at depth, reversing ect but it’s silly and I prefer to turn it on/off and adjust speed on the fly…idk maybe i am turning into my parents….

[Brian Holcombe]

I have a Jacob’s ‘super Chuck’ that I use on the Bridgeport mill for drilling but outside of that I’ve switched entirely to Albrecht over the past few years with no regrets. I’ve picked up some on eBay and rebuilt them and the occasional new one here and there.

Albrecht will ruin you for any other Chuck, they’re fantastic. They are very easy to source replacement parts for and pretty easy to rebuild so long as the previous owner didn’t really destroy it.

I’ve been looking for a vise and leaning toward Heinrich 8SV or the Flott vise.

Heavy is good, I’ll take heavy over light on pretty much anything. Heavier equipment typically comes with heavier bearings, shafts, etc.

[Mark e Kessler]

I here ya on the chuck but I gotta draw the line somewhere, after seeing a 17mil Fastems automated manifold cell with robots and 3 million dollars in tooling as well as auto heat treating for the tool holders plus rfid on every tool to monitor spindle time and chip cut I am fully aware I am behind the times…lol




I have a Jacob’s ‘super Chuck’ that I use on the Bridgeport mill for drilling but outside of that I’ve switched entirely to Albrecht over the past few years with no regrets. I’ve picked up some on eBay and rebuilt them and the occasional new one here and there.

Albrecht will ruin you for any other Chuck, they’re fantastic. They are very easy to source replacement parts for and pretty easy to rebuild so long as the previous owner didn’t really destroy it.

I’ve been looking for a vise and leaning toward Heinrich 8SV or the Flott vise.

Heavy is good, I’ll take heavy over light on pretty much anything. Heavier equipment typically comes with heavier bearings, shafts, etc.

[Tai Fu]

You know the Reeves drive is used in some small vehicles like scooters. Are there people who repair them in your area, or perhaps motorcycle repair shop that fixes smaller motorcycles?

They might know more about how to fix your problem. Those Reeves drive is basically a "CVT" type transmission that are used in vehicles.

Maybe there's a spring somewhere in the system that's loose causing your problem. So you may have to replace some springs. As far as I know these CVT has spring loaded cone type pulleys that exert a certain pressure, and the speed selector on your drill press presses down on one of the pulleys to cause a change in speed. The spring would allow the pulley to react in unison, and if you are having problems, then either springs have problem, or the sliding bit on your reeves drive are binding.

Take them apart and you'll probably find out why it's failing.

Electronic speed control has its faults. For one you often get less torque at lower speed which can be problematic. Even CNC machines that often use electronic speed control have problems with this, and they have to program them accordingly in order to avoid low torque areas.

[Tai Fu]

I have a Jacob’s ‘super Chuck’ that I use on the Bridgeport mill for drilling but outside of that I’ve switched entirely to Albrecht over the past few years with no regrets. I’ve picked up some on eBay and rebuilt them and the occasional new one here and there.

Albrecht will ruin you for any other Chuck, they’re fantastic. They are very easy to source replacement parts for and pretty easy to rebuild so long as the previous owner didn’t really destroy it.

I’ve been looking for a vise and leaning toward Heinrich 8SV or the Flott vise.

Heavy is good, I’ll take heavy over light on pretty much anything. Heavier equipment typically comes with heavier bearings, shafts, etc.

I have a milling machine that uses NT40 spindles (seriously, R8 is so yesterday, ISO/NT/whatever spindle is much superior to R8 in EVERY way with positive drive keys and all that, furthermore if you wanted to get into CNC/VMC type machines they use the same spindle. You can simply use a cutoff disk to cut the end off of the NT40 spindle, screw a pull stud on it, and you have an instant BT40/CAT40 tool holder).

But it allows me to get this on the cheap:

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32962934939.html

They're really cheap, and they're keyless, not to mention it gets tighter as it spins and bits into materials. So I never had it loosen up on me before. Only downside is sometimes it can get too tight and then I have to use a crescent wrench to open it. Maybe they make them in R8 or even MT3/JT66 so you can use it in a drill press. Mine is literally one piece, I can chuck an end mill into it if I want to do low precision work (it has a runout of about 0.005") and because of its construction, I never have to worry about it coming loose.

[Brian Holcombe]

Most tapers are better than R8.

I’ll stick with Albrecht, no sense in beating up the machine bearings with a Chuck that produces .005” runout.

That isn’t an end mill chuck, I wouldn’t be doing that. I can’t imagine the time savings over using an end mill holder or collets is worth taking that kind of risk.

[Tai Fu]

Drill chuck all produces a lot of runout, they are obviously not the right tool for milling, but for drilling the runout doesn't matter.

[Mark e Kessler]

Whats - “a lot of runout”, I think I measured 0.002 - 0.003 with the Jacobs chuck i spec’d on the voyager - as far as i am concerned way good nuff for woodworking


Drill chuck all produces a lot of runout, they are obviously not the right tool for milling, but for drilling the runout doesn't matter.

[Derek Cohen]

Drill chuck all produces a lot of runout, they are obviously not the right tool for milling, but for drilling the runout doesn't matter.


I replaced the Nova chuck (which is actually a cheapish Chinese-made keyed chuck), with a 13mm keyless Albrecht clone I have used for several years. I had good results with this in my previous drill press, and was wondering whether to upgrade it or not. Consequently, I completed some run out tests for it.

Set up ...

https://i.postimg.cc/2jshrLnZ/Runout1.jpg

I used a 1/4" shank carbide router bit as the test piece. This was a one-time test, so I may have had better results from another router bit, or from re-positioning it. It is what it is ...

https://i.postimg.cc/hPVxj403/Runout2.jpg

Results ...

https://i.postimg.cc/dVBy2Wp2/Runout3.jpg

This reads 0.045mm run out. That is 0.0017" run out.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tai Fu]

A lot kinda depends on your application. Milling metal to close tolerances, even 0.0002" runout is a bit much. You'd use ER collets or even better, one of those powergrip collets used for CNC milling. Those have very tight clamping pressure and very low runout too.

But for woodworking, 0.003" runout is good enough. That's what you'd expect on a drill chuck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xH06bgpcIY

This video explains the various tool holders available out there. But for drill press you're more or less limited to Albrecht type drill chucks as the best you can get (and the APU11/16 chuck you get from Aliexpress are Albrecht clones). I mean there's no point expecting a 0.001mm runout on something that goes on your drill press as your drill press itself will have more runout than that. A milling machine that uses tapered/angular contact bearing can achieve much better runout provided the bearing preload is properly adjusted. Drill presses use ball bearing which is not that good when it comes to runout.

[Brian Holcombe]

.005” is excessive in my opinion even for this application. No reason it shouldn’t be under .002”.

Like most things in life, if you are happy with it that’s all that matters.

[Mark e Kessler]

Well dang, all this got me paranoid so I went out to double check my set up. Turns out I was more like 0.005-0.006 which is weird because I remember it being tighter than that, so i popped off the chuck with the MT2 arbor rotated 90 deg then re checked and now it’s a little under 0.0015….

Here is the setup and I used a precision gauge pin…

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[Larry Frank]

Them are some pretty fine chucks you guys mention. I spent $50 for a keyless chuck on Amazon and my turnout is 0.0015". I had to try the cheaper one first before putting down a couple hundred.

This all begs the question since this is a woodworking forum as to what level of accuracy or precision one needs. Some have seemed to move toward machinist precision with all the digital equipment on table saws, planer and drill presses.

[Brian Holcombe]

I just like nice things.

WRT digital readouts, they make life easier and setup faster.

All this hang wringing about the tolerances for woodworking dances around the crux of the issue. Good equipment and careful setup give me no excuses for user error, and that alone makes it worth it.

[Edward Weber]

This all begs the question since this is a woodworking forum as to what level of accuracy or precision one needs. Some have seemed to move toward machinist precision with all the digital equipment on table saws, planer and drill presses.


My question as well.
Many times the wood/s can move more than the tolerances being discussed.
I too would like my tools to be as close to perfect as I can reasonably get, factoring in price and quality but reality sets in.
I seldom need to measure beyond a 32nd of an inch, after that, wood is planed, scraped or sanded to fit. I have no need to follow the path to diminishing returns. This is the same as sharpening a chisel to a gazillion grit with unobtanium paste, only to have it dull down to 1000 grit level after a single pass, what was gained?
With some species the chips and debris cut and pulled from a drilled hole can vary the bore size by a greater amount than the .oox" being debated as to what is acceptable.

IMO After a certain point, searching for another thousandth becomes the goal, rather than a woodworking necessity.

[Tai Fu]

Only time precision matters is fret position on guitar fretboards. But even then accuracy to 0.5mm is enough.

[John Stankus]

Checked out the Voyager on the Woodcraft website Estimated Ship Date June 1, 2022! :eek:

Looks interesting...I'm not a big fan of messing with the two belts on my Jet

[Rod Dilyard]

Wow! Nearly a year out on delivery!? I wonder if that’s due to the worldwide chip shortage that’s impacting nearly everything. I also wonder if there will be any of the usual holiday sales this year with demand outpacing supply. Woodcraft says October 7 for delivery of the Powermatic, but I was willing to wait for a 10% off sale. Now I’m wondering if I should wait or get my order in.

[Andy D Jones]

I too own a Nova Voyager DVR drill press, and am extremely happy with it. I purchased it before PM came out with their EVS drill press.

Nevertheless, I checked the PM out, and noticed some interesting differences between it and the Voyager.

As far as I can tell, the PM is only available/configurable for 120VAC, and cannot be configured for 240VAC power (perhaps they have models with different power requirements in other countries). The Voyager (in the US) comes wired with a 120VAC plug, but simply replace plug on the end of the cord with a 240VAC plug, and you're good to go for 240VAC, with an accompanying increase from 1.75 to 2.0 HP. The PM motor is 1 HP.

The PM has a two-step speed range from 150 to 3600 RPM (24:1), but you have to stop to change between hi and lo gears (you can change speeds within a gear while running or stopped.), The Voyager has a continuous speed range from 50 to 5500 RPM (110:1) which can be adjusted either while stopped or running. The Voyager is also reversible. In simplest mode, you merely start it up and turn the knob to adjust the speed to your liking. Or there are many other ways to select the appropriate speed for different bit types/sizes and materials. There are also user-settable speed presets, selectable at the push of a button.

The DVR motor on the Voyager is brushless, whereas the PM's DC motor uses carbon brushes (the motor is completely enclosed), with removable brush caps. Even my Milwaukee cordless power and landscaping tools have brushless DC motors; why PM decided to go with brushes on a machine this expensive is beyond me. Even a relatively coarse rotary position sensor can provide adequate speed and commutation data that would obviate the need for brushes.

Mechanically, the Voyager has just two concentric shafts (spindle & motor) supported by two ball bearings each, whereas the PM has four shafts (NOT including the motor), supported by eight ball bearings. The PM motor's bearings are not specified. The PM gears appear to be helical cut (good), but then the Voyager has no gears. While there appears to be no adjustments for gear mesh on the PM, and there is also no reverse direction capability. The PM parts diagram/list indicates O-rings and oil seals in the gear train, but the maintenance section and specifications do not indicate any oil or grease for the gear train, and there are no fill/drain ports or grease fittings. There is no gasket for the gear housing, but the gears appear to be below the parting line for the housing (at least after the DP is assembled and upright). Therefore, they are likely packed in grease.

In summary, I consider both machines to be in the light industrial class. The truth is that both mechanical and electronic systems can be subject to short-cuts and cost savings that degrade reliability/longevity. There just seem to be fewer short cuts on the Voyager (the industrial-grade touch pad is not one of them; I've seen such touch pads on heavy machinery in austere environments). While the PM has a much nicer table, after-market or custom, shop-made tables are both common and functional on drill presses. It's a lot harder to upgrade the innards of a drill press.

The Voyager also has a slew of functional features enabled by the digital controls that I won't get into. Not all are applicable for every user, but many are very useful. Some are also safety features.

Full disclosure: I also own and enjoy using the Nova Galaxi DVR lathe, and eventually would like to acquire a PM 719T Mortiser.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Alex Kapl]

i had Nova Voyager for 6 months and ended up selling it due to space constraints in my shop. I don't understand complaints about depth stop. Yes its old and dated but if you have a voyager i really don't see a point of using it. Electronic depth stop is brilliant and extremely accurate.
As far as table, i checked the table for flatness and it was dead flat. Speed selection based on my material is also very easy to use and you don't have to check any charts or google , just go through the menu and pick what you want. I currently have Wen 4214 with variable speed and i can tell you i got spoiled by Nova. Wen is totally usable but not as convinient as Nova was. I will probably end up getting Viking at some point

[Mark e Kessler]

I rarely use all the settings on the Voyager and would have gladly accepted the manual VS and the "Old Style" stop for a lower cost. I just want to turn the thing on, adjust speed, drill holes and be done....

As far as the "Old stile" bar stop, its way more solid than on other non industrial dp's that I have used including PM2808B, however the actual stop that you adjust up and down doesn't seem to adjust very well - wonder if there is a replacement that is more positive...maybe McMaster?

[Charles Coolidge]

It is clear from his comments that he is looking at this from a machinist point of view with comments about a Centering microscope and measuring flatness with his Starret straight edge.

Larry and Derek, gentlemen the Voyager's advanced features (below) are typically found on a milling machine are they not. It's okay to expect the same precision from a drill press that we demand of a table saw is it not? Or a planer or jointer. Yes my lipstick on a pig comment was a bit harsh, that stings a little but I'm not paid to do reviews or looking for youtube subscribers hence the strait talk. My brand new $3,000 Powermatic PM1500 table flatness...a board from Home Depot's cut off bin is flatter. (face palm) Seriously it's high centered like a teeter totter with a .021 inch rock forward and back. I'm currently in my 2nd month of a 3 month wait for a new table from PM. Just to prove this is not me being a PM fan boy. Straight talk the good, the bad, the ugly unfiltered. ;)

Reverse
Bit speed selection
5,500 rpm
Pilot hole function
Tapping assist
Load readout
Digital quill depth readout

[Tai Fu]

I skipped the drill press and just bought a milling machine.

[Charles Coolidge]

Your point #2 has me baffled, even if the pm table is more beefy the voyager isn’t sheet metal, where is your data on the deflection? We are drilling wood here (well, i am) not parts for battle ships…

As noted while I was adjusting the table to 90 with the spindle using a dual dial indicator Starrett spindle square (makes this job 1,000 times easier) I spun the spindle square around 90 degrees to check that the table was 90 degrees to the spindle front to back. With the dial indicator of truth on the table I put my arm across the front edge of the table and leaned on it heavy. I was able to get the table to deflect .003 as measured with the indicator. So I put even more weight on it, it wouldn't budge further that's pretty stout for a drill press.

See this, yes I use my drill press for all sorts of things not just wood. Those are Keystone turrets that are mechanically swaged to a circuit board kind of like a rivet. I use the anvil set on my drill press to seat them. Look now nice and even the swage is, if your drill press table deflects under load the swage will be lopsided and off center, the turret crooked.

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[Charles Coolidge]

I’ve switched entirely to Albrecht over the past few years with no regrets.

I have owned a few Albrecht R8 chucks and was going to buy an MT2 for the PM2820EVS but kind of bugged Albrecht no longer advertises max runout. I ended up going with the Llambrich instead. It's of similar quality but we'll see how it holds up over time, Albrecht's are a beast.

[Charles Coolidge]

Many times the wood/s can move more than the tolerances being discussed.

Hi Ed. Sure for a lot of jobs I would agree. Here's a real wood working job I faced a week back. I needed 4 holes 3/8 inch drilled 5.25 inches deep through some hard rock Maple. They had to align with 4 holes in a cast iron extension wing. If the drill press is not squared up, ridged and producing accurate holes that wasn't going to happen. Rare job yes, but nice that I didn't have to drill an oversized sloppy hole to make this work.

[Charles Coolidge]

Only time precision matters is fret position on guitar fretboards. But even then accuracy to 0.5mm is enough.

No precision is even more important on tube guitar amps! :D Guys when you are building a hardwood cabinet for a tube guitar amp at this level the cabinet quality has to be quite high.

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[Mark e Kessler]

Right, but how much does the Voyager table deflect? you said "Powermatic rigidity and resistance to table deflection under load has the Nova beat" so I assumed you checked it on the Nova as well....

You "leaned on it heavy" what's heavy? again I assumed you used a known force (ie 250 N) on both drill press tables in the same location (ie X from drill center at X angle from center)

As far as Swaging your below example, even if the Voyager table is lighter seems to me doubtful the table would deflect in the center, BUT I am assuming because I would need to test at a known force, find the boundary of where it deflects and where it doesn't and what force it takes to swage the part...




As noted while I was adjusting the table to 90 with the spindle using a dual dial indicator Starrett spindle square (makes this job 1,000 times easier) I spun the spindle square around 90 degrees to check that the table was 90 degrees to the spindle front to back. With the dial indicator of truth on the table I put my arm across the front edge of the table and leaned on it heavy. I was able to get the table to deflect .003 as measured with the indicator. So I put even more weight on it, it wouldn't budge further that's pretty stout for a drill press.

See this, yes I use my drill press for all sorts of things not just wood. Those are Keystone turrets that are mechanically swaged to a circuit board kind of like a rivet. I use the anvil set on my drill press to seat them. Look now nice and even the swage is, if your drill press table deflects under load the swage will be lopsided and off center, the turret crooked.

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[Tai Fu]

No precision is even more important on tube guitar amps! :D Guys when you are building a hardwood cabinet for a tube guitar amp at this level the cabinet quality has to be quite high.

463485

463486


I kinda want to build a guitar tube amp, but all the components are expensive as hell, especially all the transformers needed. Is there not a way to use a switching power supply similar to a CO2 laser power supply? Maybe if I can source components from Taobao...

As a matter of fact, Taobao has actually about doubled my purchasing power because their prices are so low.

[Edward Weber]

Hi Ed. Sure for a lot of jobs I would agree. Here's a real wood working job I faced a week back. I needed 4 holes 3/8 inch drilled 5.25 inches deep through some hard rock Maple. They had to align with 4 holes in a cast iron extension wing. If the drill press is not squared up, ridged and producing accurate holes that wasn't going to happen. Rare job yes, but nice that I didn't have to drill an oversized sloppy hole to make this work.


As I said, I want my machine setup to be accurate. I don't disagree with that.
I just think in reality, there is more variance in the bit and bolts used than the amount of run out in most any drill press, even cheap ones.
If you project has a hole .00x off I don't think it would matter or might not even be noticeable considering the above.

[Brian Holcombe]

The fact that wood moves is inconsequential to machine setup. Tight Runout is an indication that things are copacetic. Same with properly aligned parts, leaves less things to think about when problrm
solving.

[Edward Weber]

I don't disagree at all but if you adhere to the .00x tolerance do you do it for everything?
Fence to hole distance, stop-block distance and so on. A perfectly round, straight hole to the thousandth is great but is it practical? Do you need to be so precise as Larry Frank asked in a previous post.

[Charles Coolidge]

Right, but how much does the Voyager table deflect? you said "Powermatic rigidity and resistance to table deflection under load has the Nova beat" so I assumed you checked it on the Nova as well....

You "leaned on it heavy" what's heavy? again I assumed you used a known force (ie 250 N) on both drill press tables in the same location (ie X from drill center at X angle from center)

As far as Swaging your below example, even if the Voyager table is lighter seems to me doubtful the table would deflect in the center, BUT I am assuming because I would need to test at a known force, find the boundary of where it deflects and where it doesn't and what force it takes to swage the part...

Here's the Nova Voyager with table attachment at the center of the table.

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Here's the Powermatic's box table structure with attachment at the column. It's grip on the column is nearly 6 inches tall and the cast iron is 5/8 inch thick.

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[Brian Holcombe]

If you can divorce machine setup from woodworking setup tolerance or wood movement you will begin to understand where my thoughts are here. I want the machine setup as tight and accurately as possible.

Fixturing setup tolerance depends on the application, often enough my setup needs up to be very accurate for certain work. It’s just a distraction from getting the machine setup properly and doing so should be done to tolerances far tighter than then utilized in woodworking.

IE, do you want your saw blade to wobble .005” just because it “doesn’t matter” according to fact that wood moves? I assume no.

same goes here, I don’t want to cut holes .005” oversized just because.

[Charles Coolidge]

The fact that wood moves is inconsequential to machine setup. Tight Runout is an indication that things are copacetic. Same with properly aligned parts, leaves less things to think about when problem
solving.

Agreed. I find working with wood challenging enough without the added challenge of my machines being sloppy. Some like me are not that skilled at wood working, quality accurate machines gives me a shot at a successful project.

[Tom M King]

Speaking of variable speed drill presses, here's a good one. I bought it for a tractor repair job, thinking I would sell if after that job, but liked it so much, I decided to keep it. It came in handy this morning. I needed a way to lift the new mower, to be able to get to the blades easily.

Marine lifting eye with working load high enough to pull three of these mowers straight up in the air. 3/4" hole through three layers of 1/4" steel, right over fairly fragile rubber boots over steering parts. It would have been a bad job with a hand drill. A piece of cake with this.

Pictures were taken with iphone horizontal, but they still didn't transfer correctly.

[Ronald Blue]

Speaking of variable speed drill presses, here's a good one. I bought it for a tractor repair job, thinking I would sell if after that job, but liked it so much, I decided to keep it. It came in handy this morning. I needed a way to lift the new mower, to be able to get to the blades easily.

Marine lifting eye with working load high enough to pull three of these mowers straight up in the air. 3/4" hole through three layers of 1/4" steel, right over fairly fragile rubber boots over steering parts. It would have been a bad job with a hand drill. A piece of cake with this.

A mag base drill has it's place as you have indicated Tom. They are a handful to move around. They can be broke lose from if something goes wrong. We usually put a strap on it and dangle from the truck crane so it won't fall more than a few inches.

[Tom M King]

When I used it horizontally, I'd had some help from above too. That one weighs 85 pounds.

[Andy D Jones]

Use the right tool for the job...

I'm a retired Electrical Engineer with 33 years' experience in circuit board design, fabrication and assembly. For manual work/rework, prototypes or small batch production, we used an arbor press for press-fit and swaged component installation. The arbor press's accuracy, rigidity and leverage make it far better for precision pressing than any drill press, in less space and for far less money. Except for large pin count, press-fit connectors, most components required only moderate force to install; you just need consistent, straight, controlled force, applied with an accurate stop. Swaging components typically required even less force (they're usually a soft metal like brass, copper or aluminum), applied over a relatively short distance. The arbor press is the right tool for the job, and a lot cheaper than any of these EVS drill presses.

As another example, I use a Forster Co-Ax reloading press, not a drill press, for reloading cartridge ammunition. There are shooters that use an arbor press with chamber type bullet seating and/or neck sizing dies. I'm not good enough to benefit from that level of reloading precision. Full-length resizing a fired cartridge requires an incredible amount of force at the end of the stroke, beyond the capability of most arbor presses. However, reloading presses are designed to provide almost infinite leverage at the end of the stroke (where it's needed.) The reloading press is the right tool for this job.

Furthermore, adding weight on a drill press table, and then measuring the table deflection relative to the spindle, is not representative of the actual stresses and deflections that would occur when the spindle itself is applying the force to the table. When the spindle applies the force to the table, the rigidity of the entire spindle-head-column-table combination is stressed. The reaction to that stress (flexure) can be measured. The first two elements of that combination are not stressed at all in the weight-on-table test.

Additionally, if the pressure of the spindle on the table also restrains lateral motion of the spindle relative to the table, then the test is not accurately measuring potential flexing of the entire combination in a working situation. To accurately measure that, you need to decouple the force from the spindle to the table in all axes accept vertical. You could float a parallel plate on three ball bearings (between the plate and the table). Otherwise the test setup itself adds rigidity to the spindle/head/column/table combination. The ball bearings should be fairly closely spaced, evenly around the spindle, to minimize flexing in the floating plate from corrupting the measurement of squareness to the spindle. Since the spindle will be applying force through the floating plate to the table, you may need to chuck up a substantial rod that will avoid flexing itself while transmitting that force to the floating plate.

When trying to assess system rigidity under stress, careful consideration of the test setup, and its potential contributions to that rigidity, is required.

--Andy - Arlington TX


As noted while I was adjusting the table to 90 with the spindle using a dual dial indicator Starrett spindle square (makes this job 1,000 times easier) I spun the spindle square around 90 degrees to check that the table was 90 degrees to the spindle front to back. With the dial indicator of truth on the table I put my arm across the front edge of the table and leaned on it heavy. I was able to get the table to deflect .003 as measured with the indicator. So I put even more weight on it, it wouldn't budge further that's pretty stout for a drill press.

See this, yes I use my drill press for all sorts of things not just wood. Those are Keystone turrets that are mechanically swaged to a circuit board kind of like a rivet. I use the anvil set on my drill press to seat them. Look now nice and even the swage is, if your drill press table deflects under load the swage will be lopsided and off center, the turret crooked.

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463480

[Charles Coolidge]

Use the right tool for the job...

I'm a retired Electrical Engineer with 33 years' experience in circuit board design, fabrication and assembly. For manual work/rework, prototypes or small batch production, we used an arbor press for press-fit and swaged component installation. The arbor press's accuracy, rigidity and leverage make it far better for precision pressing than any drill press, in less space and for far less money. Except for large pin count, press-fit connectors, most components required only moderate force to install; you just need consistent, straight, controlled force, applied with an accurate stop. Swaging components typically required even less force (they're usually a soft metal like brass, copper or aluminum), applied over a relatively short distance. The arbor press is the right tool for the job, and a lot cheaper than any of these EVS drill presses.

As another example, I use a Forster Co-Ax reloading press, not a drill press, for reloading cartridge ammunition. There are shooters that use an arbor press with chamber type bullet seating and/or neck sizing dies. I'm not good enough to benefit from that level of reloading precision. Full-length resizing a fired cartridge requires an incredible amount of force at the end of the stroke, beyond the capability of most arbor presses. However, reloading presses are designed to provide almost infinite leverage at the end of the stroke (where it's needed.) The reloading press is the right tool for this job.

Furthermore, adding weight on a drill press table, and then measuring the table deflection relative to the spindle, is not representative of the actual stresses and deflections that would occur when the spindle itself is applying the force to the table. When the spindle applies the force to the table, the rigidity of the entire spindle-head-column-table combination is stressed. The reaction to that stress (flexure) can be measured. The first two elements of that combination are not stressed at all in the weight-on-table test.

Additionally, if the pressure of the spindle on the table also restrains lateral motion of the spindle relative to the table, then the test is not accurately measuring potential flexing of the entire combination in a working situation. To accurately measure that, you need to decouple the force from the spindle to the table in all axes accept vertical. You could float a parallel plate on three ball bearings (between the plate and the table). Otherwise the test setup itself adds rigidity to the spindle/head/column/table combination. The ball bearings should be fairly closely spaced, evenly around the spindle, to minimize flexing in the floating plate from corrupting the measurement of squareness to the spindle. Since the spindle will be applying force through the floating plate to the table, you may need to chuck up a substantial rod that will avoid flexing itself while transmitting that force to the floating plate.

When trying to assess system rigidity under stress, careful consideration of the test setup, and its potential contributions to that rigidity, is required.

--Andy - Arlington TX

An engineer you say.

[Larry Frank]

Yes, one could set up a test to accurately measure deflection. But given the size of the column, significant deflection is unlikely. I commonly will put hand pressure on something to get a feel for deflection. When someone leaned on it and only got a couple thousandths, that is good enough for me. I am not going to spend hours setting up a major test ad someone suggested. For my woodworking and minor drilling of metal, the Nova works great.

However, if someone needs much greater accuracy and ridgity, they should purchase the appropriate tool.

[Tai Fu]

I don't know if you seen this before...

https://www.tailiftgroup.com/images/tpr1100-l.jpg
They're quite large too. I think this particular machine is probably about 2 meters tall.

[Mark e Kessler]

Lordy, I was trying to keep the real engineering out of this - it is just woodworking after all but your comments are spot on...

[Curt Harms]

I have a Far East Delta drill press that was 5 speed with the lowest speed around 500 RPM. I was able to install a 1/2 h.p. motor and VFD for a little over $200. This is with a new 3 phase motor. I could have done it for less if I had spent the time looking for a used 3 phase motor. The lowest speed with adequate torque is around 200 RPM, high speed around 2200 RPM. Works quite well.

[Charles Coolidge]

I kinda want to build a guitar tube amp, but all the components are expensive as hell, especially all the transformers needed. Is there not a way to use a switching power supply similar to a CO2 laser power supply? Maybe if I can source components from Taobao...

As a matter of fact, Taobao has actually about doubled my purchasing power because their prices are so low.

Recommend you look into Ceriatone amp kits out of Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia they are quite affordable. Power and output transformers together with power supply filtering is a big part of tube amp feel when playing, loose, firm, stiff so stick with transformers.

[Charles Coolidge]

I just think in reality, there is more variance in the bit and bolts used than the amount of run out in most any drill press, even cheap ones.


For sure my local hardware store bits are pretty lame. I like borrowing tooling from metalworking, 3 flute drill bits for example. 4-6 flute center cutting carbide end mills. Well carbide anything vs the hardware store junk. I think woodworking lathes have a head start with the use of insert tooling. Planers and jointers are following suit with insert helical cutter heads. So why not the lowly drill press...

[Andy D Jones]

An engineer you say.
Yes. Apparently we agree on something.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Brian Holcombe]

Checked the spindle on my Kira drill press, didn’t even register on my gauge which reads to .0005”, so next time I’m at my other shop I will pickup the .0001” indicator for novelty.

When the Albrecht goes on I will read the runout with a carbide pin.

[Andy D Jones]

I have read this thread and quite a few similar ones. I have hd the Nova Voyager for a couple of years now and really like it. I understand that some do not like all the electronics and I guess I kind of understand that. The one thing that I do not care for is the fact that the Nova only table tilts 45 degrees and I think that this is a major flaw. However, the Voyager does have a substantially more powerful motor and wider speed range.

I put together a table comparison of the two drill presses based on the data on their respective websites.

463306 463307

Thanks for the informative summary!

One minor correction: the Voyager's selectable option for maximum allowable speed is a non-volatile setting (set once and forget), and does not change the lowest allowable speed. Therefore the number of speed ranges for Nova is effectively one, since one setting can reach all possible speeds (unlike the two ranges on the PM). The advantage goes to Nova for that row.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Charles Coolidge]

Maybe the default top speed for the Nova Voyager is 3,000 rpm because...wait for it...the top recommended speed for ANY drill bit size or style in Wood Magazine's drill press speed chart for Softwood, Hardwood, Acrylic, Brass, Aluminum Steel is 3,000 rpm. lol So much for the Nova's extended 3,100 to 5,500 rpm. The PM EVS tops out at 3,600 rpm.

As for the Nova's "substantially more powerful motor) it's a whole 2 amps difference. My random orbital sander is 3 amps. And the Nova Voyager lacks a low gear.

[Tai Fu]

Only time you need 5000 rpm is if you are milling in a CNC machine with correspondingly high feed rate (1000mm/m feed rate for example). Otherwise that speed is pointless and drill presses use ball bearing, which is not suitable for milling at all.

Maybe if you want to drill 1mm holes in wood or aluminum. But I find these holes better done with a dremel tool.

[Edward Weber]

If you can divorce machine setup from woodworking setup tolerance or wood movement you will begin to understand where my thoughts are here. I want the machine setup as tight and accurately as possible.

Fixturing setup tolerance depends on the application, often enough my setup needs up to be very accurate for certain work. It’s just a distraction from getting the machine setup properly and doing so should be done to tolerances far tighter than then utilized in woodworking.

IE, do you want your saw blade to wobble .005” just because it “doesn’t matter” according to fact that wood moves? I assume no.

same goes here, I don’t want to cut holes .005” oversized just because.

I already addressed all of that is my previous post.
The only point I was attempting to make was ,
You can chase the elusive .000infinty or you can adjust things as close as you can (as your tools/budget permit) knowing that there will be movement afterwards. Also knowing that any misalignment of .oowhatever more than likely won't make any difference at all in the cut or the final product.The difference between .005 to .007 is not going to matter in most woodworking situations
If (in the perfect scenario) I drill the perfect hole in a piece of wood, it's only perfect for an instant. The fact that there is now a hole has changed the internal stresses of the wood, it has allowed ambient humidity in, it may have weakened the wood and so on and so on. It is now, no longer the perfect hole one worked so hard to achieve.

So, sure, you can separate machine setup from wood movement, I agree but where do you stop? When does it become not worth it to align your tool to machinist levels, knowing that after any alteration, whether it be planing, sawing or drilling, the material itself can change. Is it a thousandth, a ten thousandth or a hundred thousandth?

Also drill presses are named such, because here in the states they resemble the look of an arbor press. Other places they are often called pillar drills. Meaning the word press isn't a part of the name or description of the tool.
The bit should cut the wood with minimal effort, which is partially why most woodworking drill presses are less than 1HP. There is no need to have a table built like a bridge or any need the pull with all your might causing bit or table deflection. If you're seriously worried about the table or head deflecting due to too much force being applied, it's either the wrong tool for the application or you're using the proper tool incorrectly.
Remember, woodworking

[Tai Fu]

If it's really a big issue then get a bed mill, not a knee mill (as it can still deflect somewhat from moving the knee and all that depending on the gib adjustment).

https://www.southwesternindustries.com/assets/images/products/dpm-rx5-bed-mill-hero-800x.png?r=4

Or if drilling holes is all that matters to you one of these ought to do the job:

https://sc04.alicdn.com/kf/H47ab52cf12704d8d8180f7f9fdb1fd23U.jpg
Machine is about 2 meters tall and that column is big enough for you to give it a bear hug if that is what you fancy... You can literally drill a 1" hole into 1" thick steel plate like it's nothing. Not even a milling machine can do that in one go (it can drill some decent holes but you have to use a boring head to expand it to the right dimension to not only get accurate hole with perfect roundness but also takes less power than drilling it all at once). But on the bright side, wanted to drill that hole on the workbench and don't feel comfortable using a hand drill? This thing should do the job. You can just about move that workbench under this machine's spindle.

[Joe Calhoon]

For woodworking my dream drill press is one from Hess in Germany. Last time I looked about 6K plus shipping.

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[Tai Fu]

If I had 6000 dollars to spend on a freaking drill press, I'm buying a knee mill.

It does everything this Hess drill press and then some. Can machine stuff if you need to fix or manufacture parts...

The new to me bandsaw had a bunch of broken screws and whatnot. Having machining capability allows me to restore the machine to its original condition, and possibly allow me to add some safety feature too.

An old bridgeport can be had cheaply if your shop can allow for it...

[Andy D Jones]

Charles,

The Voyager uses 2 more amps @240VAC than the PM uses @120VAC. The sticker on my Voyager lists Full Load Amps at 15/10 amps @120/240 VAC. That's compared to 8 amps @120VAC (per the manual) for the PM. This is a 7 amp difference (15 vs 8) between the two machines at the same voltage, not 2 amps.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Charles Coolidge]

Charles,

The Voyager uses 2 more amps @240VAC than the PM uses @120VAC. The sticker on my Voyager lists Full Load Amps at 15/10 amps @120/240 VAC. That's compared to 8 amps @120VAC (per the manual) for the PM. This is a 7 amp difference (15 vs 8) between the two machines at the same voltage, not 2 amps.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

Their website clearly states 10A at 110V for 1.75HP. Powermatic spec's 1hp at 8 amps which agrees with HP to Amps calculators by the way. The Nova claims to get 1.75hp from only 10 amps so a 75% increase in power with only a 25% increase in amps. Fishy but lets continue.

Now it gets weirder...

At 220V they claim the motor draws 10A-15A which is quite odd. Doubling the voltage typically lowers the amp draw for the same hp. Yet its still drawing 10A at double the voltage for 1.75hp? And 15A at 2hp 220V? Wow so at 15A at 220V that's double the voltage and 50% more amps for only a .125% increase in hp 1.75 to 2hp. And yet they claim how super efficient DVR is at saving energy.

Lets ignore their double talk for a moment.

Since a 1hp milling machine can hog through just about any material describe the drill press job where the Nova's supposed extra power will be used. Keep in mind their site also clearly states the computer controlled motor will only draw the amount of energy needed. So that extra .75hp to 1hp will never be seen by the spindle unless you have a drill press job that exceeds 1hp.

I'm not trying to pick on the Nova here. Power ratings are fudged industry wide. My supposed 3.25hp router motor claims to achieve 3.25hp at 120V with 15A when even at 100% efficiency hp calculators say that would require 23amps. Yet I'm running it on a 15A breaker and it doesn't trip the breaker. Oh wait...lol

463748

[Brian Holcombe]

I already addressed all of that is my previous post.
The only point I was attempting to make was ,
You can chase the elusive .000infinty or you can adjust things as close as you can (as your tools/budget permit) knowing that there will be movement afterwards. Also knowing that any misalignment of .oowhatever more than likely won't make any difference at all in the cut or the final product.The difference between .005 to .007 is not going to matter in most woodworking situations
If (in the perfect scenario) I drill the perfect hole in a piece of wood, it's only perfect for an instant. The fact that there is now a hole has changed the internal stresses of the wood, it has allowed ambient humidity in, it may have weakened the wood and so on and so on. It is now, no longer the perfect hole one worked so hard to achieve.

So, sure, you can separate machine setup from wood movement, I agree but where do you stop? When does it become not worth it to align your tool to machinist levels, knowing that after any alteration, whether it be planing, sawing or drilling, the material itself can change. Is it a thousandth, a ten thousandth or a hundred thousandth?

Also drill presses are named such, because here in the states they resemble the look of an arbor press. Other places they are often called pillar drills. Meaning the word press isn't a part of the name or description of the tool.
The bit should cut the wood with minimal effort, which is partially why most woodworking drill presses are less than 1HP. There is no need to have a table built like a bridge or any need the pull with all your might causing bit or table deflection. If you're seriously worried about the table or head deflecting due to too much force being applied, it's either the wrong tool for the application or you're using the proper tool incorrectly.
Remember, woodworking

Do what suits you. .005-.007” runout is a lot to me, I usually like parts to fit to closer tolerances than that for the work I do.

A simple procedure of plugging a hole, as example, .005” large on the hole and the plug installs with a visible glue line. If this is ok for you, I have no problem with that.

I like things built heavy not because I am trying to force anything, rather it is becuase I do not like delicate tools which are generally louder, cannot support heavy material and vibrate more.

As example I was working 10’ long, old growth 6x6 posts with my Wadkin mortiser recently, using a 1” square bit. Try that with a ‘good enough’ powermatic. I used the machine to cut 1” mortises in maple also. Perfect results.

[Brian Holcombe]

For woodworking my dream drill press is one from Hess in Germany. Last time I looked about 6K plus shipping.

463741
463742

Fantastic looking drill press. Flott is in the same range but less useful for woodworking.

[Joe Calhoon]

I was impressed with it Brian. Spent some time looking at it and a lot of clever features- mechanical read outs, air clamp and the fence system.Yes strictly woodworking but would be a quick setup for a lot of projects. Especially chair making. I don’t see one in my future but think about it when drilling angles .��

[Brian Holcombe]

Yeah, that looks especially useful for chair making/custom furniture.

[Brian Holcombe]

If it's really a big issue then get a bed mill, not a knee mill (as it can still deflect somewhat from moving the knee and all that depending on the gib adjustment).

https://www.southwesternindustries.com/assets/images/products/dpm-rx5-bed-mill-hero-800x.png?r=4

Or if drilling holes is all that matters to you one of these ought to do the job:

https://sc04.alicdn.com/kf/H47ab52cf12704d8d8180f7f9fdb1fd23U.jpg
Machine is about 2 meters tall and that column is big enough for you to give it a bear hug if that is what you fancy... You can literally drill a 1" hole into 1" thick steel plate like it's nothing. Not even a milling machine can do that in one go (it can drill some decent holes but you have to use a boring head to expand it to the right dimension to not only get accurate hole with perfect roundness but also takes less power than drilling it all at once). But on the bright side, wanted to drill that hole on the workbench and don't feel comfortable using a hand drill? This thing should do the job. You can just about move that workbench under this machine's spindle.

Ive seen Deckel style mills cut similar sized holes without blinking. A knee mill is not super rigid but a Deckel mill is.

[Charles Coolidge]

If it's really a big issue then get a bed mill, not a knee mill

https://www.southwesternindustries.com/assets/images/products/dpm-rx5-bed-mill-hero-800x.png?r=4


A bed mill with box ways will get it done. Been there done that on a knee mill, bought it, cussed it, sold it.

[Andy D Jones]

Charles,

It looks like you've found a mistake on Nova's website. Like I said, the UL-required sticker on my machine states Full Load Amperage is 15A at 120VAC or 10A at 240VAC. Their manual does not mention current for the different voltages, except for recommended rating of surge protectors, and in notes on a diagram for the input power wiring. From the diagram, the internal fuse appears to be rated at 15A regardless of whether the machine was assembled with a plug for 120VAC or 240VAC. When the Voyager is powered by 120VAC, the controller/motor is capable of 1.3KW (1.75HP) output.

The Voyager's input power feeds the controller, which rectifies and filters it to DC, from which the controller generates the motor drive waveforms for the speed requested and physical load present.

The DVR motor itself is slightly akin to a stepper motor, and is capable of 1.5KW (2HP) output only when the controller is powered from 240VAC. The many poles of the DVR motor, produce far less torque ripple than a DC motor at very low RPM, rendering a multi-speed, mechanical transmission unnecessary. The DVR motor also maintains more output torque than conventional 3-phase motors at low frequency/RPM.

To change voltages, you literally just change the plug to one that will plug into the desired voltage receptacle. There are no jumpers to move to convert from 120VAC to 240VAC operation, like there are with induction motors (where windings are re-jumpered to handle the different voltage).

Dual voltage AC induction motors draw roughly half as much current when jumpered for 240VAC than they draw when jumpered for 120VAC, because they consume and produce the same power (wattage and HP) at either voltage for a given mechanical load.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Charles Coolidge]

Andy the manual states "Rated power output 1250 watts, 1.75 HP" which is still fudging it but close enough I guess. Meanwhile I noticed Powermatic's web site shows the EVS table only tilting 45 degrees, Powermatic this is for you (face palm).

[Andy D Jones]

Andy the manual states "Rated power output 1250 watts, 1.75 HP" which is still fudging it but close enough I guess. Meanwhile I noticed Powermatic's web site shows the EVS table only tilting 45 degrees, Powermatic this is for you (face palm).

Yeah, manuals for products produced in the far east are not known for completeness or accuracy. At least the grammar in both these manuals appears reasonable (rather than some translations from Chinese to English I've seen).

I also noticed the Voyager "Rated power output" spec, but output power is mechanical power.

Input power (electrical) = output power (mechanical) / efficiency.

But we don't know efficiency either, unless we back it out from output power, given input FLA @ VAC.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Charles Coolidge]

Yeah, manuals for products produced in the far east are not known for completeness or accuracy. At least the grammar in both these manuals appears reasonable (rather than some translations from Chinese to English I've seen).

I also noticed the Voyager "Rated power output" spec, but output power is mechanical power.

Input power (electrical) = output power (mechanical) / efficiency.

But we don't know efficiency either, unless we back it out from output power, given input FLA @ VAC.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

Speaking of that SawStop manuals are insanely good. Easily the best manuals ever for anything I have purchased in the past 40 years, that good.

[Tai Fu]

I had a bandsaw that says it has a 2HP motor on it. But given how it seems to stall so easily I highly doubt it's anywhere close to that. I mean you couldn't really have 2HP on a 110v circuit without tripping the breaker.

[Neal Pearson]

[I did purchase a higher end chuck, Llambrich keyless. The PM2820 spindle bore measured about .0002 run out. Cleaning the bore twice and turning the Llambrich 180 degrees once produced a final runout with a ground 1/2 inch rod chucked in the drill of .0005 inch.
]

Which model Llambrich Keyless chuck did you buy?

[Curt Harms]

I had a bandsaw that says it has a 2HP motor on it. But given how it seems to stall so easily I highly doubt it's anywhere close to that. I mean you couldn't really have 2HP on a 110v circuit without tripping the breaker.

The old Delta sold contractors' saws that were dual voltage/different HP. Rated 1.5 hp on 120 volts, 2 h.p on 240 volts. I've never heard why, that Delta motor did have a start capacitor and run capacitor, don't know if that had anything to do with it or not.

[Tai Fu]

I don't know if there are different 2HP motors out there that have totally different torque, but right now I got a bigger bandsaw that is impossible to stall anyways (the belt would likely slip before that happens).

Then the motor on my mill says it's 2 HP but so far the only time I have managed to stall it is with the brake engaged. Otherwise I couldn't stall it.

[Bill Dufour]

Another choice for a variable speed is a used treadmill motor. They are DC and include a variable speed drive. Pretty much constant torque across the rpm range. I belive they are common 90Volt dc motors. so very easy to find replacement drives. They run one to two hp.
Bill D

[Edward Weber]

I had a bandsaw that says it has a 2HP motor on it. But given how it seems to stall so easily I highly doubt it's anywhere close to that. I mean you couldn't really have 2HP on a 110v circuit without tripping the breaker.

There is HP and developed HP. If you change gearing or pulley ratios, you can get more power out of a given source.

[Michael Schuch]

Roger, VFD controlled motors lose torque and hp pretty much in direct relation to hz and /or rpm. 60 hz is full power, 30 hz is half power and half torque, 15hz is 1/4 power etc.
Best bet is buy a older dp with a factory 3 phase motor and run it from a vfd. probably will be a better made unit then a new EVS machine. At least for under $700 complete.
Bill D

This is exactly what I would do. An old big drill press with a 1hp+ 3 phase motor should have plenty of torque even with it being slowed down significantly by a VFD. Or put a 1hp+ 3ph motor and VFD on a smaller drill press with an existing fractional hp 1ph motor.

My Toshiba and Fujitsu VFD's claim to boost torque at lower speeds and they do seem to do so better than the cheapest Chinese VFD's. They still definitely loose torque when being slowed down to a slower frequency but don't seem to do so as fast. I am guessing they increase the voltage at lower frequencies to keep the torque from falling as fast?

Did you try adjusting the springs on the Reeves drive drill press or straight out replacing them if they are old? The belt on the Reeves drive also might need replacing if it is many years old. A VFD won't give you the same effective range of speeds that a Reeves drive should so you will probably have to do some belt switching still. A big oversized 3ph motor on the drill press should extend the effective speed range without changing belts than a smaller fractional motor.

[Bill Dufour]

All Reeves drives the slip bushing/bearings get worn and need to be replaced before they wear the pulley bores too much. They sell new sleeves with special glue. Before I did that work I would toss the pulleys and install a 3 phase motor with step pulleys.
Bill D