Kink in saw?

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

Hi all, I just got a saw from one of the higher end makers and it arrived with a slight kink in the teeth around 3 inches form the end. I haven't used the saw yet and the kink is really noticeable when the blade catches the light. What do you think I should do? Shipping is really expensive from Israel to the states, even if I end up not having to pay for it, I would rather not send a saw back over a kink that might reoccurr as a result of normal use. Will it affect the cut?

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

I can't seem to be able to post a picture from my phone, I'll upload one when I get home

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Assaf

Three inches from the heel of the plate suggests that the kerf in the handle is not square. This can induce a curve/kink when the saw nuts are tightened.

This should have been noted before sending it to you. I would contact the Seller and describe what you have. Send a photo. The saw needs to be returned. Do not use it. They need to reimburse you for postage as this is not your fault, and therefore you should not be responsible for the extra costs. Most responsible sellers will do this.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

Hi Derek,
Thanks for the response. I don't think I was clear enough, the kink is in the tooth line 3" from the end of the saw furthest from the handle.
463098

it looks to me like the saw set was placed a bit to deep so it ended up denting the plate as well as the tooth. my question is is this a flaw, or a feature of hand set saws. and more importantly - will it affect the saws accuracy? its a tenon saw, and I more than any others I would like my joinery saws to be accurate (he said with the decisiveness born of a complete lack of experience).

[Scott Winners]

So far I would not let the saw touch wood and send your pic to the vendor. They may or may not ask you to make some test cuts with it, but I wouldn't make any test cuts until hearing back from them.

[Doug Dawson]

Hi all, I just got a saw from one of the higher end makers and it arrived with a slight kink in the teeth around 3 inches form the end. I haven't used the saw yet and the kink is really noticeable when the blade catches the light. What do you think I should do? Shipping is really expensive from Israel to the states, even if I end up not having to pay for it, I would rather not send a saw back over a kink that might reoccurr as a result of normal use. Will it affect the cut?
Which maker was this? If they’re not even looking at their product before they ship it, we deserve to know this.

[Dennis Droege]

Whose saw is this?

[Pete Taran]

Not to mention the teeth don't even look like they are filed to a point. yikes!

[Stephen Rosenthal]

I thought the same thing as Pete, but figured it might be the way it’s photographed. But Pete knows better than I. Yes, we need to know the maker. We tend to praise well-made tools on this forum, so no reason not to call out those with obvious flaws. They should stand behind their work.

[steven c newman]

Oh, the teeth do have points....nice and IMPULSE HARDEN black ones.

[Scott Winners]

I dunno fellas. I do see a couple marks in the "plate" where the setter was maybe used a bit agressively. The black -might- be sap or etc from a test cut at the factory after sharpening, and the photo looks like a cell phone photo that was cropped a lot. It looks to me like that saw was filed crosscut. Before going too far off the reservation I would want to hold that saw in my hand under good light and peer over the top of my bifocals to look at those teeth and probably reach for my loupe before I opened my mouth.

Assaf is not buying crap tools and then paying international shipping. I bet that saw is not a Lee Valley/ Veritas, but it probably was more expensive than LV/V too.

At Assaf, if the vendor tells you to make some test cuts, I would go for it and make some test cuts, in both soft and hard wood. What you want to find out is are those two or three teeth set wider enough from the others that your cutline is not smooth. You want to use the full length of the plate with your sawing and then look at the cut surfaces for smooth-smooth-smooth- a tooth set wider than the others - smooth - smooth - smooth. I can probably come up with a photo of a surface left by poorly set teeth, in fact I am sure I can if you need one to compare.

I personally would not call the vendor out until -after- the vendor had a reasonable chance to make it right.

[Doug Dawson]

I personally would not call the vendor out until -after- the vendor had a reasonable chance to make it right.
I'd like some confirmation that it's who I think it is, so that I don't feel so all alone in being gaslit.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Good on you Assaf for giving the maker first chance to make it right before naming him.

​As a reminder to everyone, the SMC policy as listed in the Terms of Service requires this approach. ​It is also just the right thing to do, we all have bad days and make mistakes.

[Doug Dawson]

Good on you Assaf for giving the maker first chance to make it right before naming him.

​As a reminder to everyone, the SMC policy as listed in the Terms of Service requires this approach. ​It is also just the right thing to do, we all have bad days and make mistakes.
That’s fine. Let me give you an example of how things can work a bit differently. I bought an expensive saw from a “maker” based on reputation, and after 12 weeks to deliver a bone stock saw, what they shipped me was obviously bent. I wrote them an email describing the situation, with an RMA request, and shortly thereafter received a phone call, presumably from the owner, in which he absolutely could not understand what the problem was, that I should pay hundreds of dollars for a bent saw, and that I should just live with it. He said he’d repair it, but said it as if he was doing me a _favor_. He also didn’t know what the terms for the various parts of a saw were, to the extent that I became convinced that he wasn’t _capable_ of repairing it. So I just kept it and made my own replacement handle (which was the source of the problem, as I futilely tried to explain to him.) And now everything is fine. But I can’t look at that saw without a tinge of disgust, even though the saw works well now.

[Dave Anderson NH]

In your particular case Doug you would have been justified in naming the maker and paraphrasing the conversation. You gave him the chance and he only half met his responsibility. Unfortunately there are always some gray areas in deciding whether or not to name someone.

[Doug Dawson]

In your particular case Doug you would have been justified in naming the maker and paraphrasing the conversation. You gave him the chance and he only half met his responsibility. Unfortunately there are always some gray areas in deciding whether or not to name someone.
What really bothers me is that people might think it was someone else, Good People like Pete Taran or Tom Lie-Nielsen. They don’t deserve even the possibility of a doubt, at least from me.

[Phil Gaudio]

Assaf: Tough call. If it were mine, I'd try it out and see how it cuts. If it is purely cosmetic, perhaps the manufacturer would offer a credit towards the original purchase price to compensate? If it does not perform correctly, then it has to go back for repair/replacement. I have a saw from a boutique US manufacturer that came with a similar defect, but it cuts just fine. I could have returned it for repair, but it was not worth the aggravation. To summarize: try it out and then decide. Phil



Hi all, I just got a saw from one of the higher end makers and it arrived with a slight kink in the teeth around 3 inches form the end. I haven't used the saw yet and the kink is really noticeable when the blade catches the light. What do you think I should do? Shipping is really expensive from Israel to the states, even if I end up not having to pay for it, I would rather not send a saw back over a kink that might reoccurr as a result of normal use. Will it affect the cut?

[Jim Koepke]

Not to mention the teeth don't even look like they are filed to a point. yikes!

This was also my first thought until it hit me the teeth are pointing up in the image.

jtk

[Andrew Hughes]

Must be one of those rare upcut saws.

[Mike Brady]

I agree with Phil. There will inevitably be that first scratch or ding. If it effects performance, that is another matter, and that can only be determined by using the saw.

[Doug Dawson]

I agree with Phil. There will inevitably be that first scratch or ding. If it effects performance, that is another matter, and that can only be determined by using the saw.
A bent or kinked saw is not the same as a scratch or a ding. Then again, it depends on what you want to do with it. If all you’re gonna do is paint the side of it and hang it on the wall, then it probably wouldn’t matter. :^)

[Stephen Rosenthal]

I’m with Doug on this. If I’m paying top dollar for a premium saw, I expect it to arrive in perfect condition. That means no dings or even minor scratches. I have three such saws and all were perfect upon receipt. I also have 100+ year old saws that I appreciate even more for the lives they’ve lived. Bad Axe occasionally offers saws that have minor imperfections at a discount, but I am not aware of any other saw makers that do.

[Mel Fulks]

When I was a kid I worked for an old guy who said that a kinked saw could ,sometimes, be fixed by slamming it down on .the surface of
a pond (or pool) . I don’t think so. But I post it as interesting lore. No trade can continue without “lore”.

[Charles Guest]

Given that even bargain mass manufactured saws come dead straight, all of the pussy-footing around makes no sense to me. It should be straight. That said, sometimes a really bad setting job can make a saw look kinked if you're gazing at it down the tooth line. Either way, it's a defect. You could tap out all the set and reset the saw to see if that fixes it, but this shouldn't be necessary on a saw from a boutique maker.

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

Hi all,

I figured you guys deserve closer to this post.

It took a while because I had to move for a renovation, get ready for finals (I graduated) and get married :D.
I tried posting from my phone a few times but I ended up making a mess of the post.

anyway...

when I finally had time to test out the saw it works very well, it cuts straight and true. the kink's effect is purely cosmetic.
when I reached out to the seller he responded by offering to make it right. In the end I decided to keep the saw as is and received a partial discount.
I found the sellers response and offer satisfactory.

a lot of the comments about the state of the saw blade were likely due to poor photography on my part - cellphone and lamp
Given some of the responses I saw on the post, I don't feel comfortable sharing the makers name - if he hadn't offered to make it right, I would have but I won't tarnish a small tool maker for a solitary mistake.

thank you everyone
A

[Dave Anderson NH]

Thanks for giving us the follow up. Glad that things were resolved to your satisfaction.