Which Titebond Glue?

[Joe Wood]

would anyone know which has the least springback for bent laminaions? Titebond II or III?

there's also TBond Etend which looks interesting
http://www.titebond.com/product/glues/d7c6f86b-93cc-4400-99ed-79f8a75a2e95

[Joe Wood]

I'd like to use weldwood plastic resin but can't trust what I can buy locally with a 1 year shelf life.

[Kevin Jenness]

Titebond Extend has the most rigid glueline in the Titebond line. That said, urea formaldehyde (plastic resin, Unibond 800) and epoxy will give you less springback and more working time. I generally use epoxy for this applicationdue to its long shelf life, working time and fairly stiff glueline. I would have a hard time with any pva adhesive getting the piece shown clamped up working by myself before it set up. I would stay away from TIII for bent laminations as it seems pretty gummy when cured.

That is an interesting shape. What is the application?

[Mel Fulks]

I’ve done a lot of laminating and never seen much difference in spring back. I would use Titebond 2 or the plastic resin glue. All the plastic
resin glue I’ve seen that did not work would not mix up properly, we sent it back and got a refund with no hassle.

[Myles Moran]

I've used titebond original for bent laminations and had no noticeable springback, but the bend wasn't extreme by any means. I my research, lots of people used the same glue for the rockers in a rocking chair and they've had great long term results.

The other popular glue is the plastic resin glue since it dries so much harder. For an extreme bend like in your pictures, that's what I would use.

[Joe Wood]

yeah I'm afraid of usong epoxy because of the amount I need in a short time, 10 minutes to get it all clamped up. It always goes off on me too fast, even putting it in a shallow paint pan.

these are moon gates I make Kevin.

462188

[Jamie Buxton]

In bent lamination, there's two effects to consider: springback, and creep. They both cause the bent lamination to straighten out, but over different time scales.

Springback happens immediately after you take the lamination off the bending form. It has little to do with the glue. It is mostly affected by the number of laminates. More layers gives you less springback.

Creep is an odd characteristic of some supposedly solid materials. If you put the material under constant stress, it slooowly moves. Some plastics exhibit this behavior. Bent laminations keep the glue under constant stress. If you use a glue which creeps, the glue slowly moves, and the lamination slowly straightens out. (Slowly may mean several years.) The knock on PVA glues like Titebond is that they creep. Glues which don't creep include: Epoxy, Unibond 800, and Plastic Resin Glue (urea formaldehyde).

[lowell holmes]

I use Titebond II Premium and Titebond II Ultimate and I am happy with both. A little goes a long way.

[John Erickson]

Check out West System epoxy from Gougeon Brothers, 105 resin with 206 hardener would give you enough open time and cure clear with little spring back.
https://www.westsystem.com

[Joe Wood]

good explanation Jamie!

OK so where would I buy plastic resin glue that would not be expired? The last few I tried I bought locally and all three had expired.

[Jamie Buxton]

good explanation Jamie!

OK so where would I buy plastic resin glue that would not be expired? The last few I tried I bought locally and all three had expired.

Dunno where to buy plastic resin glue. I got scared of the formaldehyde exposure, and stopped using Unibond 800. (Formaldehyde is a known carcinogen. The building products industry has been working hard to remove it from their products. Often now I see building materials labelled "no formaldehyde added" or some such.) (However, when I tried to learn more, I couldn't find any authority which was willing to tell me if the dosage I might get from bent laminating might hurt me. I finally gave up and went to epoxy. Of course YMMV.)

[Kevin Jenness]

Unibond 800 and ppr are available from https://veneersystems.com/product-category/veneer-adhesives/ureas/

I use epoxy for lengthy glueups frequently. You can mix several batches in sequence for a large quantity. For extended working time use a slow hardener and/or set your paint pan in an ice bath.

[John TenEyck]

I would use System Three T-88 epoxy for that application. It is a structural epoxy so it won't creep, and it has at least 45 minutes working time. It's what I use for all exterior door work now. Clean up is easy with plain old white vinegar, or lacquer thinner.

John

[andrew whicker]

I started storing my Unibond 800 in my shop mini fridge. I meant to ask Vacupress, but I wonder if you could mix Unibond 800 while it's cold (however you define cold). It would extend the clamping time by a lot. You can look on the website, but I think 70 F is 3 hours of clamping.

I'm looking forward to exploring epoxy too. I worked with a guy that used dixie cups 1/3 full or so and keep re-filling as necessary. I saw you can also buy products to slow the reaction. I was impressed with how easy epoxy was to use.

[Mark e Kessler]

Tightbond extend is much more rigid than II or III, I believe unibond makes a ultra rigid pva but could just be marketing. Urea would be best bet, unibond 800, proglue… I believe proglue has the lowest formaldehyde off gassing if you are concerned about that, there may be others now. Of course there is epoxy as well….

[Curt Putnam]

This time of year where I live, Titebond PVAs have an open time of about 30 seconds. For extended open time and lack of creep, one needs to use an epoxy or plastic urea adhesive such as Unibond 800 or DAP Weldwood. The DAP product is your cheapest option if you do not already have someething.

[John TenEyck]

This time of year where I live, Titebond PVAs have an open time of about 30 seconds. For extended open time and lack of creep, one needs to use an epoxy or plastic urea adhesive such as Unibond 800 or DAP Weldwood. The DAP product is your cheapest option if you do not already have someething.

The price these days for Weldwood PRG is really high; higher than Unibond 800 when I looked a week ago.

John

[Mel Fulks]

Can’t remember the name ,but there is (or was) a supplier that sold PRG in 25 pound size much cheaper than the big brand.

[Joe Wood]

Mel, what is PRG?

[Mel Fulks]

Plastic Resin Glue

[Rob Sack]

According to the folks at Titebond at the the most recent AWFS, ORIGINAL Titebond Extend will offer the least amount of creep. They also make a Titebond II Extend, which does not offer as much creep resistance as the Original version. They also recommend stirring the bottle thoroughly before using, as some of the ingredients will settle to the bottom of the bottle.

[Mike Henderson]

I've done a fair amount of laminate bending and used Titebond glue. No problem with springback or creep.

Sam Maloof used Titebond I and Titebond III on his laminate bent rockers. The choice was based on the color of the wood - Titebond I for light colored woods and Titebond III for dark woods.

Mike

[Mel Fulks]

I STILL say ,never seen yellow glue creep. White glue creeps, and shops used a lot of it. It was a problem. Pieces were sent to finishing room then came back to shop for fix. Lot of the yellow glue we used
was for laminated stuff like round jamb heads. And that was with real ,thin wood before “Italian bending ply” was available.

[John TenEyck]

If you make the laminations thin enough most any glue will work OK for bent laminations. On the other hand, even a very rigid glue might not prevent spring back or creep if the laminations are too thick for the curve being formed. I have a friend who builds beautiful Hal Taylor chairs. He uses Titebond II for the rockers and laminated back slats. Per Taylor's instructions, he always leaves the parts clamped in the form for at least 24 hours. There is no spring back and no creep. The radii are very gentle and the back slat laminations are only 0.090" thick. I don't recall what thickness the rocker laminations are, but the radius is is very large. As with many things, the devil (ie success) is in the details.

John

[Curt Putnam]

Maybe we are not talking about the sane stuff
https://smile.amazon.com/Dap-00203-Weldwood-Plastic-Resin/dp/B002YC400S/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=dap+weldwood&qid=1627951360&sr=8-7

I paid about $8 for this tub last year - IRRC