How much to clean a central A/C condenser??

[Brian Elfert]

I called about a month ago to get my central air conditioning condenser cleaned and the tech came today. They never mentioned the cost and I figured $250 or so. It was $329 and the tech was at my house for a bit over 30 minutes. (Yes, he had to travel too.) It was absolutely plugged with dirt and needed to be cleaned with coil cleaner and not just running a hose over it.

I absolutely would have done it myself had I realized how expensive it would be. I could get some good coil cleaner and the nice applicator gun for $100. I really need to get a capacitor for my A/C unit so I can replace it myself. Besides the labor cost, getting someone out to fix a central A/C unit is running a week or more for a no cooling call. I know how to diagnose and properly discharge a capacitor.

[Tom M King]

None of it is hard to do. You just need to know how, and have the right stuff to work on it. There are some better capacitors than what come on the units, and changing one is a really simple job.

[Bill Dufour]

If you need a capacitor anyway I would consider adding a hard start kit while you are in there.
Bill D

[Mike Henderson]

If you need a capacitor anyway I would consider adding a hard start kit while you are in there.
Bill D

How does a hard start kit work? In looking at the advertisements it appears to be nothing but a capacitor that is put across the single phase line powering the compressor. The compressor motor is not a capacitor start induction motor (I think it's a split phase start).

I don't see any value to putting a capacitor there except to correct power factor since the motor looks like a big inductor at startup. Any insight?

Mike

[Tom M King]

The last time I had to replace a capacitor, I used one of these. It's been so long ago, that I don't remember which model it was, or even what size that unit is. Still kicking a good number of years since being installed.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008A3UJ7I/?coliid=I2YING3S3Q9QI2&colid=2P8GBP5SU4LS7&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it#customerReviews

[Scott Clausen]

I used to do all this stuff myself back when I had more time than money. Heck I even put in my entire air conditioning system in. Now I just gave in and signed up for a tech to service the system before each season. It is a subscription based deal and come with discounts on parts and priority service, A nice thing when its hot or cold and your down.

[Jim Koepke]

As a one time field service technician my experience is the charges can pile up quick.

Sometimes you can call in and complain and get some knocked off.

(If you have read any of my posts on buying you have heard my rap on asking for any kind of discount you can think of including green teeth and no teeth.)

Travel expenses are real and often standardized by where you are in relation to their base of operation. The time is often figured on a minimum per call. With auto dealers there may be more standard time allowed and charged than it actually took.

One other thought, with the tech only being there for 30 minutes, they likely didn't clean the fan. If it is a 'squirrel cage' (centrifugal blower) type fan, the blades on the fan get dirty and reduce air flow. Dismantling one of those and cleaning the blades is a dirty job that few tech want to do. An efficient tech can usually get it done in an hour or so depending on how difficult it is to remove and reassemble.

A word to the wise, if you do this and the neighbor notices, don't tell them you cleaned the fan blades or they will want you to do theirs. Tell them you had a loose belt or something.

Added note: On my call tickets was a spot for time of arrival and completion. These are something anyone having an on site tech should look to see they are filled in properly.

jtk

[Tom M King]

We used to have a good tech, who was reasonable too. But I think he finally figured out his clientele lived in a high end vacation area. I called him to ask how much to swap out a capacitor, on my Mother's AC, a few years ago. He said, $250. I swapped it when I got home that day.

We put in a mini-split, in a hurry, for my Mother's suite when she had to move in with us, after a second stroke at 104. He installed it, while I was scrambling to do other stuff, getting ready. It lost refrigerant, after a few months. At that time, I didn't have any R410a, so I called him. $400 to put in some stop leak, and 20 oz. of R410a, when it was his install that leaked, and it took him maybe 20 minutes. He wrote the bill up to make it look like he was giving me a discount. That finished that.

I ordered a 25 pound cannister of R410a, the next day, for $145, including shipping. It's over 300 now. I'm going back to doing it all myself. I already had most of the equipment.

I figure doing mechanic work on our vehicles, that my time ends up being worth over $150 an hour. Looks like it will be more than that keeping our HVAC stuff going.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Unfortunately, Joe Smuckerelly can no longer buy 410-A. Gotta have an EPA licensee, which can be had over the internet (hint, hint.) Tom, remember that 410-A is a blend, and cylinder has to be inverted during charging. Love seeing commercials for HVAC guys, servicing a unit without PPE, and cylinder of 410-A upright. I wouldn't want those guys working on my equipment. They don't know what they are doing. Back to original post, both Lowes and HD sell cans of coil cleaner. Remove outer grill, spray it on. Let it do it's thing and rinse off with garden hose and you are done.

[Tom M King]

Yeah, I wondered about him just topping it back off. I doubt parts of the mixture leak out at the same rate, but don't know. It's been working great since then though.

[Lee DeRaud]

We used to have a good tech, who was reasonable too. But I think he finally figured out his clientele lived in a high end vacation area. I called him to ask how much to swap out a capacitor, on my Mother's AC, a few years ago. He said, $250.He's a lightweight.

I had one outfit come out a couple years back who had what they called "fair and simple" flat-rate pricing. I knew the cap was bad (visibly bulging), he also recommended a new contactor because of some pitting on the contacts. And then he whipped out the page describing the pricing model: anything electrical was $495. That sounded insanely high for a 1/2-hour labor and a $25 part, but it got worse. While I was reading that, he was writing up the actual estimate: turned out the $495 was per component, with a total right at $1K even after he offered to waive the $125 "service fee". Um, thanks but no thanks.

I chalked up the $125 to education and sent him on his way. Amazon delivered the parts the next afternoon and I was up and running an hour later.

[Brian Elfert]

The tech only cleaned the condenser outside. I am pretty sure he never went inside to even look at the furnace. The blower wheel was certainly not cleaned. I'll have to look at it. I already mentioned I would have cleaned the coil myself with coil cleaner had I realized the cost would be so high.

I don't have a need for a capacitor now, but I know they are a common item to fail and not hard to replace. I would like to have one on hand just in case. I know how to properly discharge and test the capacitor.

[Lee DeRaud]

Slightly off the main topic, but is there a reason that they use open-frame relays* in this application? I know it's (semi-)protected, but I've found burnt insect carcasses and other cruft stuck in them...just seems like some kind of sealed unit is in order.

(*And do they call them "contactors" just so they sound more important/specialized/exotic?)

[Jim Koepke]

(*And do they call them "contactors" just so they sound more important/specialized/exotic?)

In one of my previous work places, "contactors" had replaceable contacts, relays didn't. That might have just been shop jargon. Many of our "contactors" were pneumatically driven.

jtk

[Frederick Skelly]

They never mentioned the cost and I figured $250 or so. It was $329 and the tech was at my house for a bit over 30 minutes. (Yes, he had to travel too.) It was absolutely plugged with dirt and needed to be cleaned with coil cleaner and not just running a hose over it.

I absolutely would have done it myself had I realized how expensive it would be.

I dont mean to offend, but why would you let them do the work without agreeing on a price?

[Bill Dufour]

Those cheap open type are called "definite purpose relay". I think meaning it must be enclosed for safety and only one amp rating no adjust ability like a contactor with overloads.
Just read an interesting article claiming washing a coil does no good unless it is caked with dirt/dust restricting airflow. Cleaning by itself may even reduce efficiency Some dust causes turbulent airflow and improves heat transfer. The opposite of a dust collector where you want laminar airflow for maximum flow rate. Maybe add vortex sheaders to improve coil efficiency?
Bill D.

[Lee DeRaud]

Those cheap open type are called "definite purpose relay". I think meaning it must be enclosed for safety and only one amp rating no adjust ability like a contactor with overloads.
Not sure I understand your point. The 'contactors' in the three AC compressors I've had were/are all (1) cheap, (2) open, and (3) non-adjustable.
(Not sure exactly how much current they carry, but it's certainly more than one amp.)

[Jim Koepke]

A simple search of > contactor vs relay < brought this comparison > https://www.electgo.com/difference-relay-and-contactors/

In the world of human communication people are likely to call a relay a contactor and a contactor a relay.

Sometimes a large relay may control a contactor and often a contactor may have an auxiliary circuit to energize a relay connected to an annunciator.

jtk

[Brian Elfert]

I dont mean to offend, but why would you let them do the work without agreeing on a price?

Absolutely my fault for not getting a set price ahead of time. I made the appointment more than a month ago, but I recall asking about the cost and she said it was time and materials. It was stupid of me not to ask how much the time cost. As it turns out they seem to have a flat rate for using chemicals to clean an A/C coil. The invoice shows an item called "chemclean" for $329. No trip charge or anything else.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Absolutely my fault for not getting a set price ahead of time. I made the appointment more than a month ago, but I recall asking about the cost and she said it was time and materials. It was stupid of me not to ask how much the time cost. As it turns out they seem to have a flat rate for using chemicals to clean an A/C coil. The invoice shows an item called "chemclean" for $329. No trip charge or anything else.


Did they include a LARGE jar of vasoline in the price?

[Bill Dufour]

Not sure I understand your point. The 'contactors' in the three AC compressors I've had were/are all (1) cheap, (2) open, and (3) non-adjustable.
(Not sure exactly how much current they carry, but it's certainly more than one amp.)


The one amp rating means they are only rated for a particular maximum ampacity. A motor controller has overloads that can be adjusted or swapped out to allow protection at various ampacities up to some maximum. If you need more amps you must swap in a different(usually physical larger) contactor/relay/motor controller.
Also a USA rated industrial relay will be rated for more lifetime cycles. A Din relay will often be rated for far less. Something like 500,00 vs 100,00. I suspect the cheapy ones are rated far less MTBF. If they are rated at all.
Bill D..

[Lee DeRaud]

The one amp rating means they are only rated for a particular maximum ampacity.Ah, "one amp-rating", not "one-amp rating".

If I'm reading all this correctly, the widgets in the AC are really relays, not contactors, give or take some overlap/ambiguity.
But methinks it's one of those "if we slap some jargon on it, we can charge more" deals.

[lowell holmes]

competitive bids?

[Jim Koepke]

Maybe the high charge is because they most customers will watch and then do it themselves, never calling again unless something major fails.

jtk

[Rollie Meyers]

Flat rate pricing is a great money makers for contractors & no Vaseline® is provided. Unfortunately most HVAC contractors have gone flat rate as have plumbers, caps, & definite purpose contactors are cheap, but DP contactors are designed to be cheap, with no serviceable parts, just toss them away & replace them, cheap is one reason it is common to use a single pole DP contactor in single phase applications, & a 2 pole contactor for 3 phase, BTW it is code compliant to do it that way.

[Lee DeRaud]

Maybe the high charge is because they most customers will watch and then do it themselves, never calling again unless something major fails.Maybe if they charged a reasonable price for a trivial repair they'd get repeat business.

If someone tries to rip me off on a small job, there's no way I'll call them back for a big one.

[Cary Falk]

I clean mine with a $8 can of Webb coil cleaner. Remove the skins. Spray it on and wait about 5 minutes and then hose it off. It is amazing how well it removes dog hair, dirt, dryer lint, etc.