best woods for exterior paint grade wood rot repair

[jim mills]

Compiling a list. Recomendations?

[Jim Becker]

Any of the species that's normally used for outdoor projects because of weather/insect resistance will do. White oak (not red oak) is a popular north American species for outdoor projects, for example. Mahogany, Sapele, teak, ipe, etc., are all popular imported species.

But it would be helpful for you to be more specific about "what" you are repairing that has rot...it could make a difference in recommendations. Non structural? Man-made is a good option. IE PVC. There are also weatherproof (when painted) composite products available. So "what" are you repairing?

[jim mills]

Good point Jim. Mostly window trim, fascia boards & soffit repair.

[jim mills]

I've got a pile of nice 20' long clear yellow pine boards, but I dont think that's the best material to use.

[Jim Becker]

I've got a pile of nice 20' long clear yellow pine boards, but I dont think that's the best material to use.

Primed pine is pretty much what the building trades use for those purposes if they are not opting for the PVC materials. it's cost effective and if primed on all sides, finished with quality paint and not subjected to standing/excess water, lasts well. LP has some very nice composite materials available for this purpose, too.

[Mel Fulks]

If you use fir, pine , or any other conifer, the bark side must be the face ,or the wood can peel up sharp….and non paint holding layers.
I like using the non oil base copper naphthalate for protection from rot.

[Warren Lake]

when i was getting my parents home read to sell I was going to paint the back garage door, never got to it, paint was starting to peel on a west facing door., 66 years old the door was still solid and could have been sanded with a dynabrade sealed and painted and carry on. thats 66 years but its old school cedar. Not old growth but it is better than now a day stuff.

On my front porch the posts were old growth cedar and at 30 years they will still carry on while the deck board was failing years ago

[John TenEyck]

As Jim said, primed/painted pine.

John

[Tom M King]

Paint is so good these days, that if you can keep it from getting wet from the back, about anything will last. I painted an old house in 2008 with Sherwin Williams Duration. It was their top of the line paint at that time. I put a piece of blue masking tape in a place where it would get wet, but was out of common sight. I painted over the blue masking tape with some of the Duration. I was by there last week, and it's still there, like I painted it last week. Still waiting to see how long it will last.

[Jim Becker]

Yea, the real key to trim is that it has to be painted on all surfaces including end-grain. (primer is fine on unseen areas) If one takes the time to do that, wood trim will last for a very long time. Good paint really matters. PVC doesn't have to be coated on all sides first, so it's a time saverin that respect (and durable), but at a substantially higher cost.

[Mel Fulks]

I agree that painting all around helps , but the woods without a ‘good for exterior’ rating still rot. It was an unpleasant surprise for me;
especially when they were painted on all surfaces. But I admit the paint adhered to the rotting wood ! That’s why I started using the
copper naphthalate . I don’t do all of my house painting ,so I make sure to write specs and watch for untreated…specks.

[Jim Becker]

Mel, I think a big part of rot issues isn't the material as much as it is the situation where water/moisture, for whatever reason, lingers which in turn promotes the rot. There's no harm in taking extra precautions, however, especially in areas where there will likely be a lot of moisture/water exposure that may or may not always drain away quickly. A close friend in Florida is dealing with this...fascia board where it joins the soffit near a gutter rotted. Again. Whomever fixed it in the past just replaced the bad board. They apparently didn't deal with the source of the moisture that was causing the rotting. Now it's a bigger issue.

[michael langman]

If you use fir, pine , or any other conifer, the bark side must be the face ,or the wood can peel up sharp….and non paint holding layers.
I like using the non oil base copper naphthalate for protection from rot.


I needed to hear this information as I have to replace some exterior trim. Thanks Mel. And you too Jim for bringing up this post Lots of good ideas makes things go better.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

As Jim said, primed/painted pine.

John

no way
termites will love it.

something more dense.
Fir.
With lots of rings.

[John TenEyck]

no way
termites will love it.

something more dense.
Fir.
With lots of rings.

Millions of houses have been built with pine trim. My parents' house was built in 1927 and still has the original white pine trim on it. They keep it painted.

John

[Mel Fulks]

Some white pines are better than others, the ponderosa stuff is not as good outside as Northeastern white pine. Many years ago we used to make a lot of
circular trim out of Ponderosa pine. Some of the contractors would not accept it and always specified fir with no sap wood. I though they were
nutty. But they were careful and right. I think the best
pine, other than old growth Southern yellow, is the North Eastern white, sans sap. The pine failure I had was a couple of plinth blocks
primed and painted all around and seated in caulk.

[Roger Feeley]

When I was a kid back in the 60’s, my church built a new education wing. For some reason I remember them saying that they used granite for the window sills because it was cheaper than wood. Grace Cathedral in Topeka Kansas if anyone cares.

[Zach Macklin]

I used cypress for exterior window trim on my house. 15 years and the only maintenance I’ve done is to apply one more coat of white stain. I would not use pine. I have been involved in the trades for 25 years and I have never seen pine used for exterior purposes. Primed all sides or not, there are far better choices and it’s simply not worth trying to save a couple dollars to skimp on exterior trim lumber. The standard around here has always been cedar fwiw.

[Warren Lake]

Hey Mel

I never heard about Bark side out. Did hear about bark is bigger than the bite. My thought old guy taught us furniture wise heart side was the best side usually and it also took the finish the best. Ive seen that mostly to be true. You talk about heart side out that part separates and lifts and ive seen it once or twice. I was thinking about it, he used to say stay away from the center of the tree, you never use that yet in construction wood you see it endlessly at least now a days. 4 x 4 post its the center of a small tree.

Do you think the stuff you saw lifting had nothing to do with Heart side up but was simply just too close to the center of the tree?. Just a question. I could have checked that had I had that thought when I saw it two or three times and likely it was in white pine. Will watch for it now

[Mel Fulks]

Warren, inside the house I guess any side is OK. Most furniture is out of weather and I see that as ,use the best side. Most of the 4by 4 stuff
is the center of small trees ,so it’s all bark side! I’m sure you have many times looked a board and chosen the smooth side instead of the
peeling layers of the other side. When a board is newly milled both sides of a conifer board can look good, but only the bark side can be
trusted to not pop up those sharp layers.

[Zach Macklin]

Just want to add that those houses built in the 1920s with pine exterior trim were not using the same untreated pine that you buy today at Home Depot. In fact, I would bet most of that old trim is Doug fir.

this also depends on where you are located. If you’re in the desert, you could probably get away with poplar. If you’re anywhere that experiences weather and has bugs that want to eat wood, you want to think about what you’re going to use.

[Charles Lent]

Douglas Fir will last a long time, even if it gets wet occasionally, as long as it can completely dry out.

For small rotted spots that all the rot can be completely dug out, Bondo makes a pretty good filler that can be sanded smooth easily and painted. Prime the surfaces before applying the Bondo and get it as smooth as possible with a putty knife to minimize sanding. When sanded and shaped like the original board, prime it again, and paint it. I have repaired pine porch columns and window frames this way and they are still lasting fine 23 years later. Bondo isn't just for automotive repairs.

Charley

[Kevin Jenness]

https://www.accoya.com/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=2.0.3.1%20G*%20%7C%20Wood&utm_term=acetylated%20wood&utm_content=acetylated%20wood

[William Hodge]

https://www.accoya.com/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=2.0.3.1%20G*%20%7C%20Wood&utm_term=acetylated%20wood&utm_content=acetylated%20wood

Have you used accoya? How is it for stability?

The old work lasted well because it was dense, and painted with lead paint. Pre-1978 wood is surprisingly resilient if it isn't scraped.

[brent stanley]

Like Kevin said, Accoya is my choice.

It works quite well, has 50 year guarantee above ground unpainted outside. It takes paint very well and has lower shrinkage/expansion ratios than most woods so paints & caulk won't crack. Made of pine so it's soft, but it's not a coating, it's all through the wood and non-toxic.

A guy I know bought some almost ten years ago and took the first cut off he generated and threw it in the ditch by the shop. It it now a little dirty, but otherwise the same.

Sounds "new fangled" here, but it's extremely common and entirely ordinary in Europe.

[Jack Frederick]

Sorry to go off the rails here, but after sequential failures of supposed good wood for trim back east, when we re-modeled the house her in CA I went with Azek pvc trim. The crew were less than enthused, but each of them said it was a fine product. It was straight and true and stable. It has been seven years and it still looks like new. It isn’t wood, costs more, goes up quicker and again, looks terrific…if you can overlook the fact that it is plastic.

[Thomas McCurnin]

Cedar and Redwood are rot resistant. Cedar fences will last 20-30 years and pine and doug fir will rot out within 10 years. My experience only, and I'm no expert.

[andy bessette]

...houses built in the 1920s with pine exterior trim were not using the same untreated pine that you buy today at Home Depot...

This.

Here is a list:

Naturally Rot-Resistant Species:


Redwood.
American mahogany.
Cypress.
Western red cedar.
Pacific yew.
Teak.
Black walnut.
White oak.

[Jim Becker]

Several of us have mentioned PVC type materials. Uber-durable for sure. But one thing to keep in mind is that these materials expand and contract more than wood and that needs to be taken into consideration. Different brands exhibit different behavior, too. A general contractor friend of mine originally used Azek, but move on to a different product after expansion/contraction issues, including on my old home, caused some call-backs. He's had less issue with the product he uses now, but I do not recall what it is.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Millions of houses have been built with pine trim. My parents' house was built in 1927 and still has the original white pine trim on it. They keep it painted.

John

I wish I could find some of that pine from 1927.
Not the same quality today.

[John TenEyck]

I wish I could find some of that pine from 1927.
Not the same quality today.

That was good stuff for sure. But you are underestimating how good pine still is for trim work. All of the trim on my 1961 built house is pine. I've replaced one short piece of fascia. A common trim material in my area these days is finger jointed pre-primed pine. I put it on my solar drier a few years ago; didn't even bother to paint it besides sealing the cut ends. Still looks fine. I built the doors for my shed out of white ash because that's what I had on hand. Ash is one of the poorest woods you could choose for exterior work. But several years later they still look new. Why? Primer and paint.

Most any wood will last a very long time if it's not subjected to standing water and you keep it painted. My two cents.

John

[Jack Frederick]

That is interesting Jim, We did the whole house with Azek in ‘13, Corner boards, door and window trim and I keep an eye on it. It has not opened or warped at all. Regional extreme temps and shading certainly could explain it. Coldest I’ve seen at our house is 20* and hottest is 112.* Contractor used biscuits on the joints and alinement is excellent. The general now recommends the Azek to people. His pitch is that it is more expensive but consistent, stable & he makes up for the cost in installation labor savings.

[Jim Becker]

I'm sure that the specific situations matter relative to how much the movement can make a difference. In the case at our old property, the issue is with the cap along the top of an exposed foundation wall which wraps around several corners and has different sun exposures. It's kinda the same issue that causes us to use breadboard ends on tables. The PVC moves between .25" and .375" seasonally and the longest section cracked apart in two places because of it. My contractor friend had some issues at other projects in the same time frame. Perhaps it was a bad batch, but he switched brands. Don't get me wrong...I'm a believer in this more durable material for sure! I'm just mentioning that expansion and contraction happens. If I could go back to 2008, I would have chosen the more expensive bluestone cap that our mason wanted to do, but "extra requirements" slathered on by the local inspector to the whole project screwed up the budget.

[David Sochar]

Let me jump in here and alter the discussion somewhat. Species is important, but far more important when gauging longevity in exposure is ring density. I have been observing this for close to 50 years. I poked on Poplar logs in old settlements that were felled in mid-1800's that are as sound as can be. I have seen Poplar Shutters grow fungi in 2 years.

I have talked to Purdue, they were very nice, but clueless. They even recommended Poplar to a start-up window maker. They declared bankruptcy 4 years later when all the rot- repair claims started coming in.

Redwood is rotting in 3-5 years, Western Red Cedar is rotting in about 10 years. Even Teak is not at all what it used to be. What is going on?

Ring density my young friend, ring density. The Poplar cabin logs from 1860 had about 200 rings per inch - dense dark green heartwood that took centuries to grow. The Heart Pine in my house siding will not rot, and is about 100 rings per inch - every resinous inch. Look at those old bridge timbers used in covered bridges. Or wharves and docks.

No matter what you make, ring density matters. The greater the better. Get a piece of anywood that is warped, look at the ring density. Compare it to those that do not warp. Ring density.

So, this is a game changer. Try buying - over the phone - some wood that has a high ring density. You will be having a hard time, eh? Try explaining it to your bookish cohorts that always knew you to be a nut.

Just keep a sharp eye out, and compare when and where you can. You will see.

[Mel Fulks]

“Whut we hav heah is falyuh to buhleev eny sighense butt owuh ohne “
Yeah, Boss

[Tom M King]

Yellow Pine has changed a lot over the decades. It's still the same wood, but how it's processed, and now, how it's grown make a difference. I've used miles of it for exterior trim. Up until 1992, when the last old school lumber yard/sawmill went out of business, it became something different.

Before then, they rough sawed it, and it was left in giant stickered stacks outside, for a year at least. Then they would kiln dry it slowly, using a steam kiln powered by burning sawdust. It was a slow process, but before 1992, I could buy a whole bundle of 2x4x16's, and expect the majority of them to stay straight. I built houses before then with Yellow Pine studs.

After those operations couldn't compete with the lower prices of the big guys, Yellow Pine has developed the reputation that you know today. Sometime ago, they stopped even selling Yellow Pine 2x4's, except for specially processed ones for truss manufacturers. Almost no SYP 2x4 will stay straight now.

The reason is that they saw the trees as soon as possible after the logs come in, and kiln dry it overnight. Stand back whey you cut the bands on a bundle. This is the yellow pine you buy in stores today.

Not only that, but they've changed the way it's grown. I'm down the line from several generations of timber growers. In my Father's, and his Parent's day, they would let the trees grow as tall as they could until the lowest limbs were 34 feet up, before any thinning was done. This resulted in two really good 16' saw logs, but it was a much slower process than what is recommended today. The price per acre may have been a third higher per acre, but you didn't get your money as quickly.

These days, they recommend thinning early, which makes the limbs grow out more, and the tree produces more tonnage per acre quicker than doing it the old way. You get trees with much larger growth rings, and many more knots, including large knots, but the timber grower gets paid quicker. The tons per acre, which is how timber is bought, may be the same in 30 years, as it would be at 40 years with higher value saw logs, but the cost is lower. Good saw logs go for big money now, but the people growing them are few, and far between. I'm one of those, and the timber will be for my children.

To keep timberland at the low property tax rate, you have to present a Forestry Management Plan. This is a good source of income for Foresters, but I write my own.

Over the decades, I've used various woods for replacement window sills on the old houses I work on. For the last 6 years, I've started casting them in place out of concrete, coating with epoxy after completely drying (might take over a year), and paint over that with the best paint. So far, that's looking pretty promising.

[Mel Fulks]

Tom, I’m impressed with your method ,and ability to get a client to wait ! I had to replace a sill on my house ,year or two ago. I just
picked out a sill with bark side up, fir of just average quality and covered it with light canvas and painted. I’m sure it will last a long time.
The testing was done long before I was born. Many things were treated in that manner for a long time ,including porch floors.

[Tom M King]

Here are a couple of pictures of one of my cast in place, concrete window sills. I fold a pan out of some non-rusting sheet metal. This one was some leftover vinyl coated aluminum Trim Coil. If it's appropriate, I make a form that leaves the texture of old wood, and even with exposed pegs. This one was a simple one. I thought I had some pictures of it finished, but didn't find them in the computer. I forget to take pictures most of the time. This was the day I made this one. The forms came off several weeks later.

Sorry, not taking time to flip the iphone pictures.

Mel, I only work for very smart people, and don't waste time for estimates, or deadlines.

[Mel Fulks]

The “you are a really smart guy” thing has always been a good smooth path and I have used it too. But when it doesn’t work …I slog thru
the facts. They thank me later.