Festool Assorted Domino Tenons and Cutters in T-Loc Systainer: Is it worth $345?

[scott vroom]

The retail cost of the individual tenons and cutters is $309.88 based on Hartville Hardware prices. I'm not including the 5mm cutter that comes standard with the DF500...why do I need to pay for one I already have?

They sell the components bundled in a systainer for $345. What it amounts to is they're charging you $35.12 for the plastic Systainer box. If you don't care about the bulky box then you're better off ordering the contents individually from Hartville with free shipping.

[Jim Dwight]

Scott,

It becomes really overpriced when you consider Amana and CMT offer the cutters for about half the price Festool wants and it is pretty easy to make your own tenons. I do not use Festool cutters any more since I damaged the 12mm that came with my XL. I have also never purchased any tenons from Festool. I am not criticizing those who prefer Festool cutters and buy the tenons, just pointing out there are much cheaper options than even buying the bits and tenons from Hartville (or others).

Jim

[Jim Becker]

The bundles are for simplicity, especially for someone starting out. Some folks find value in that; others do not. I did buy the assortments for both the DF500 and also the 700XL version. It gave me the cutters for all the sizes and since I have the Seneca adapter, I can use the smaller DF500 cutters no problem with my 700XL when and if I have the need. I don't mind having an assortment of various sizes of Dominos around as they provide utility for "those times" when they are the right size for a small job. I now buy the sizes I actually use a lot in the 750mm long sticks and cut to length as needed. I'm not sure that's an option with the small Domino sizes, but it's serving me well for 8mm and up. I mostly use 1omm, 12mm and 14mm.

I will admit that I was lucky to be able to buy the assortments from Amazon's German site back before that kind of thing got shut down as it reduced the cost considerably for the assortments with the cutters.

[scott vroom]

Scott,

It becomes really overpriced when you consider Amana and CMT offer the cutters for about half the price Festool wants and it is pretty easy to make your own tenons. I do not use Festool cutters any more since I damaged the 12mm that came with my XL. I have also never purchased any tenons from Festool. I am not criticizing those who prefer Festool cutters and buy the tenons, just pointing out there are much cheaper options than even buying the bits and tenons from Hartville (or others).

Jim


Jim, I read several comments on Festool Owners Group that said the CMT mortise was slightly wider than the Festool cutters causing the tenons to not fit snug. I haven't read similar criticism about Amana....as a matter of fact I haven't found much discussion on the Amana cutters so far. I'm assuming their domino cutters are the same high quality as their router bits. Amana cutters were priced $15-20 cheaper than Festool and I'm looking for user info confirming they work as well as Festool.

[scott vroom]

The bundles are for simplicity, especially for someone starting out. Some folks find value in that; others do not. I did buy the assortments for both the DF500 and also the 700XL version. It gave me the cutters for all the sizes and since I have the Seneca adapter, I can use the smaller DF500 cutters no problem with my 700XL when and if I have the need. I don't mind having an assortment of various sizes of Dominos around as they provide utility for "those times" when they are the right size for a small job. I now buy the sizes I actually use a lot in the 750mm long sticks and cut to length as needed. I'm not sure that's an option with the small Domino sizes, but it's serving me well for 8mm and up. I mostly use 1omm, 12mm and 14mm.

I will admit that I was lucky to be able to buy the assortments from Amazon's German site back before that kind of thing got shut down as it reduced the cost considerably for the assortments with the cutters.

Good points. On the long sticks, I haven't come across any for the DF 500.

[Jon Grider]

The loophole may be closed now, but several years ago, a member here pointed out that Amazon De(the German site) had the DF500 systainer , cutters and domino assortment for far less even with shipping. IIRC I think I paid about $175 and delivery was surprisingly fast from Germany.

[Richard Coers]

If you are really concerned about the cost, just make your own floating tenons out of scrap. I bought a Multi Router in the late 80s and have made hundreds of feet of tenon stock. I chamfer the edges instead of a radius. It gives the excess glue a place to go and is incredibly fast on the router table. Once you get your planer or thickness sander set, run 50 feet so you have stock available for small jobs. Soft maple has always been my stock of choice if I have scrap.

[Jeff Roltgen]

Hi Scott - that was me, regarding the CMT bit issues. Here's my thoughts as a 10+ year DF500 user:
- The 5mm is great as a replacement for biscuits for lighter joinery/alignment applications.
Got one? CHECK
- The 10mm is a must, as you want to be able to utilize maximum reinforcement/strength possibilities of the machine.
Need one? Please, do yourself a favor, just get the Festool . I'm still on a replacement from April 2019, and it's working fine (swapped back to it after the dismal CMT performance).
I seriously go through a case of 510 10mm dominos every year as I make my living at this. Why goof around with the cheapies when you can realize this much performance from the OEM bit?
(just don't hit any screws or nails, of course!)

- All other bit sizes can be lived without for quite some time, IMHO. When the odd-job comes along that you feel requires a 6mm or 8mm, one at a time is easier on the budget.
While it would be nice to jump to the absolute, give yourself a monetary break, and time to cut your teeth on utilizing this awesome game changing tool. No rush!

Regarding the dominos themselves, my experience has been very good with the Taytools knock-offs. A little bit cheaper, a bit higher quantity per package. As a professional, I have sooo many more things to do than spend my shop rate on mfg dominos, I just cannot waste the time. Still, go for it if you want to try, especially if you're not making a living at this.
Lack of funding = a new skill, right!

Enjoy your new machine.

[Jim Becker]

Good points. On the long sticks, I haven't come across any for the DF 500.

You can get 8mm stock in the 750mm lengths for sure which is, I think, your top end for the DF500. Much more cost effective than buying them in specific lengths unless you need a lot of a particular length for a project and the time to cut them is limited.

[johnny means]

So why is no one selling off brand loose tenon stock? There has to be money in it.

[Richard Coers]

So why is no one selling off brand loose tenon stock? There has to be money in it.
We are all woodworkers, right?

[johnny means]

We are all woodworkers, right?

:confused:? Surely, if Festool can sell us Dominos at these exorbitant prices, someone could undercut them?

[Jacob Mac]

There are off brand dominos

[Scott Shimmin]

You can order the bundle from Sautershop.com in Germany for less, even after paying for shipping. I'm ordering that and a new SuperSilent diamond blade for my saw for much less than buying them domestically.

[Jim Becker]

I've occasionally done some casual shopping for metric beading router tooling which would be really nice for making Domino tenon stock including for situations where it would be nice to do an exposed "through" tenon look. Those suckers are hard to come by! OEM Domino stock isn't actually "rounded" on the ends which gives an advantage when fitting a joint where there may be a minor variation in alignment. Some abrasive paper to "shave" the slight ridge on the side of the Domino to make it a hair looser is a nice thing.

[Phillip Mitchell]

This is pretty far down the rabbit hole, but I have seen a few folks that make their own Domino tenon stock and (already) have Williams and Hussey molders get knives made specifically for cutting the relief grooves that dominos have for glue spread.

[Tom DiBiasio]

I bought the systainer set originally (using the amazon.de site and the cost was $185 +shipping) and now just replenish as needed with the off brand precut tenon stock from Amazon - the name of the company who sells them is "TAYTOOL". I think the only size they dont have for the DF500 is the smallest ones. I have not had any issues with fit of the off brand - but of course they do not say "Festool" on them....

[Jim Dwight]

By the time I replaced my 12mm Festool cutter with an Amana I was out of the 12mm dominos I got from the original owner when I bought it. So I've never put a Festool domino into a mortise made by a CMT or Amana bit. But I measured the festool and it's replacement and there is no difference. I also measured all my other "off brand" cutters and they are the diameter they are supposed to be. I also use the same home made tenons in mortises made by Festool (originally) and "off-brand" cutters with the same fit from my perspective. I think the different size mortise from CMT and Amana bits is a myth. If you don't hold the domino right you can get a larger mortise but that is not the bits fault.

I ruined the Festool 12 mm bit hitting drywall screws with it repeatedly. It did not shatter but the edges got nicked and it doesn't want to plunge. I had a 14mm CMT bit shatter just from cutting wood but it was replaced under warranty and the replacement did not do that. But a normal relatively soft nail did at least as much damage to the second CMT bit as the drywall screw did to the Festool. But I haven't messed up and hit any metal with my other bits and they are all working fine.

I think the Festool bits are a little tougher, less brittle, than at least the CMT bits. But my CMT 5mm, 6mm, 8mm, and 10mm cutters work fine. Me hitting metal is not the bits fault. I do not believe there is any difference in the mortises made by any of these bits. CMT and Amana are certainly talented enough at making bits to make them the right diameter.

[Dave Sabo]

.why do I need to pay for one I already have?

Because you might break in or wear it out. Even if you don't there's little downside to having an extra since used festool prices usually outplace inflation.


It becomes really overpriced when you consider / there are much cheaper options than

This is pretty silly when you consider the cost of a Domino is over a thousand dollars to start with. Why even buy it in the first place if all you want is a cheaper alternative ?





The loophole may be closed now, but several years ago, a member here pointed out that Amazon De(the German site) had the DF500 systainer , cutters and domino assortment for far less even with shipping. IIRC I think I paid about $175 and delivery was surprisingly fast from Germany.

This avenue has been closed for a good while now thanks to people publicly disclosing the process. Festool closed it down after it was flaunted in their face. When Brexit passed the deals on the UK site were outta sight because the sellers didn't catch up with the rapid currency flux fora while. If you're lucky enough to find another conduit, keep your helpfulness and boasting to private conversations please. Be sure you get a NDA too.




So why is no one selling off brand loose tenon stock? There has to be money in it.

They are - but the economics just aren't what you imagine. Especially if you value your time realistically or have to pay someone a decent wage or pay the bank for an automated machine that doesn't care if you're a slave driver.

https://www.amazon.com/Taytools-Beechwood-Tenons-Festool-Domino/dp/B0785YBP2G/ref=asc_df_B0785YBP2G/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241955516116&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=623197962220716139&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010943&hvtargid=pla-449808046509&psc=1

(https://www.amazon.com/Taytools-Beechwood-Tenons-Festool-Domino/dp/B0785YBP2G/ref=asc_df_B0785YBP2G/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241955516116&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=623197962220716139&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010943&hvtargid=pla-449808046509&psc=1)
Plus, they really aren't that much cheaper than the name brand ones.




You can order the bundle from ( TF%&^$&()&)) in Germany for less, even after paying for shipping. I'm ordering that and a new diamond blade for my saw for much less than buying them domestically.

you may consider redacting this if you'd like to continue using them. Strictly speaking , they aren't allowed to ship that stuff to the USA.



Some abrasive paper to "shave" the slight ridge on the side of the Domino to make it a hair looser is a nice thing.

a block plane makes for an elegant solution too :
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/products/small-block-planes?path=block-planes&node=4072

[Robert Mayer]

My time is much more valuable than money, so I bought the assortment. But if I was retired I would be tempted to make my own.

[Dave Sabo]

My time is much more valuable than money, so I bought the assortment. But if I was retired I would be tempted to make my own.

At that point, time is arguably more valuable because you have less time left.

The catch is , you probably have less money too.

[Jon Grider]

Well I sure am glad we all have been enlightened and corrected. I think I'll go sit in a corner now.

[Dave Sabo]

Well I sure am glad we all have been enlightened and corrected. I think I'll go sit in a corner now.

At least you can play with your Domino

[Jim Dwight]

God has blessed and I am easily able to buy festool cutters and pre made dominos. If I did woodworking for a living I might. I also like using wider more normal tenons, however, when that is what the design calls for. Multiple pre-made little ones is, no doubt, a viable alternative but I like wider ones. It is very easy to make multiple plunges with the domino to create the mortise. I also want to make the length "right" for the workpiece but the long stock can solve that. I will never put little grooves on my tenons, however. I'm not saying they are a bad idea, they probably help hold some glue, but I am confident they are not necessary. Traditional mortise and tenon joints don't have them and have worked for hundreds of years.

In short, I do what I do because it's what I want to do, not because I can't afford the cost of other options. If it makes sense to you to do something different that's fine by me. It doesn't mean your choices are better for me, however.

[Doug Dawson]

The retail cost of the individual tenons and cutters is $309.88 based on Hartville Hardware prices. I'm not including the 5mm cutter that comes standard with the DF500...why do I need to pay for one I already have?

They sell the components bundled in a systainer for $345. What it amounts to is they're charging you $35.12 for the plastic Systainer box. If you don't care about the bulky box then you're better off ordering the contents individually from Hartville with free shipping.That’s a pretty good price for a dedicated Systainer.

[Dave Sabo]

It is very easy to make multiple plunges with the domino to create the mortise.

Yup. But there's not a real good way to control how much width you add. There are ways, but not good ones. And there are cheaper options for making wider mortices like a router or a benchtop morticer.

Then there's this:

I also want to make the length "right" for the workpiece but the long stock can solve that
Yea , and ???????

This is one of the biggest drawbacks of domino IMO - depth of cut is more limited than other means. So making xtra long stock is still limited to the domino's plunge.

The biggest advantage to the whole system is it's quickness, accuracy, and repeatability. Which are facilitated by standardizing (limiting) the offerings. If that doesn't work for you in it's entirety , fine. You can use your tool any way you see fit. My take is you're giving up many of the advantages of buying the expensive tool in the first place. My experience has also been that people who say they can afford anything yet mention outa the gate something is expensive or can be had cheaper - really aren't being frank.

Nothing wrong with how you want to spend your money either.

[Jim Becker]

There are certainly applications where the size and/or mortise depth from Domino/Domino XL are not ideal. It's up to the craftsperson to make that determination and use a method that's best for the particular jointery. That said, I cannot think of anything that I've personally constructed in the past few years since owning the Domino XL that were not well served by the size and depth I used for the project(s). If I felt from a design and strength standpoint that something stouter was required, I would have used it. The only real risk with any of these joining methods is expecting them to be universally adequate. Reality tells us otherwise.