spindle travel?

[Albert Lee]

I've got a question that I cant seem to find answer in the forum...

I ordered a spindle moulder, a TI145EP from SCM and it was delivered around mid May. here are some photos of the spindle moulder

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I have been busy with other works and havnt had proper play with it, until recently I tried to get familiar with my spindle moulder and I found the spindle can only travel up and down 70mm, or 2.75 inches. I was a bit surprised, when I contacted SCM I am told this is a move to be safer as stacking multiple cutter block on the spindle is not safe practice.

is this the new normal? I am used to old style spindle moulder where the entire spindle can travel up and down say 5-6 inches, from picture below you can see the micro switch that limits the movement is 70mm/2.75 inches.


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[Warren Lake]

thats sounds odd. On top some older heavy duty stuff had top braces with a bearing.

Likely have 5 inches of up and down on the shapers I have. Most ive ever seen was an SCM T160 I wanted to buy. Huge under the nut seem to be double any other shaper id seen, when I hand turned the spindle it was smooth as silk. It also tilted. It also had maintenance records on the side. Rare to see that. Unfortunately there was a guy there that had worked at the company and was on a mission to buy three or four old quality european machines.

[Mel Fulks]

Years ago I used a couple of shapers in employments that had really tall custom made spindles. Never liked the SCM stuff ,too gimmicky.
I’ve used a couple of shapers that had spindles so ripply ,that I wondered if they had been hand rolled on a kitchen table like kid’s “safe clay”.

[Greg Quenneville]

How the heck are you supposed to mount complex cutters for making windows, etc? I have seen some cutter stacks that are at least 4” tall.

[Albert Lee]

How the heck are you supposed to mount complex cutters for making windows, etc? I have seen some cutter stacks that are at least 4” tall.

The usable spindle above the table is 150mm/6 inches. You can move -70mm/2.75inch down from there. You can use complex cutter block that’s like 5-5.5 inches tall. Just the movement is limited to 70mm

[Joe Jensen]

The spindle travel is interesting. I have a much more entry level Felder F700Z and the spindle moves maybe 6" with the power drive.

[johnny means]

Maybe that was an engineering trade off to allow for the adjustment mechs. That much travel is plenty and there is a lot of movement going on in that cabinet. It's all got to work at full tilt too.

[Mel Fulks]

One of the first things you learn with a shaper is always raise the spindle for tall work , that is to avoid needless strain on the spindle.
Putting a bunch of spacers under the tooling causes needless wear and work that shows uneven laps.

[Jared Sankovich]

That seems odd.

My tilting machine has 5.5" or so of travel and I thought that was short. However the tilting mechanism along with the motor mounting orientation are the cause of the travel limitations.

Apparently I'm spoiled as my other two (non tilt) have 180mm/7" and 260mm/10" of travel.

Edit to add, looking at the pictures you posted again this dimension is the limiting factor on my tilting spindle. It looks like there is limited clearance there.
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[Warren Lake]

top of the griggio spindle goes to 8" above the table. The T130 goes to about 10" to the top above the table. Didnt measure the combo machine it will be less.

I want the travel for when i put a false top on the machine and if ever attaching one of those tennon things. the tennon thing adds some height likely a couple of inches. The griggio had a custom sliding table on it and it was well up above the table top not measured but likely closer to 3". I need travel for that, best to keep cutters low.

[Albert Lee]

Maybe that was an engineering trade off to allow for the adjustment mechs. That much travel is plenty and there is a lot of movement going on in that cabinet. It's all got to work at full tilt too.
Yes I tend to agree... TBH I dont think I need the full travel, as long as the usable spindle length is there say 6 inch/150mm then I guess I am good.

[Albert Lee]

One of the first things you learn with a shaper is always raise the spindle for tall work , that is to avoid needless strain on the spindle.
Putting a bunch of spacers under the tooling causes needless wear and work that shows uneven laps.

thats true Mel. having the tooling at the bottom of the spindle is the proper way to go.

[Albert Lee]

That seems odd.

My tilting machine has 5.5" or so of travel and I thought that was short. However the tilting mechanism along with the motor mounting orientation are the cause of the travel limitations.

Apparently I'm spoiled as my other two (non tilt) have 180mm/7" and 260mm/10" of travel.

Edit to add, looking at the pictures you posted again this dimension is the limiting factor on my tilting spindle. It looks like there is limited clearance there.
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Well spotted! I will go down have a better look. it does look like that space is the limiting factor. 260mm travel is HUGE. do you ever need to use the full length?

[Albert Lee]

top of the griggio spindle goes to 8" above the table. The T130 goes to about 10" to the top above the table. Didnt measure the combo machine it will be less.

I want the travel for when i put a false top on the machine and if ever attaching one of those tennon things. the tennon thing adds some height likely a couple of inches. The griggio had a custom sliding table on it and it was well up above the table top not measured but likely closer to 3". I need travel for that, best to keep cutters low.

Griggio makes beautiful machines, shame about the bankrupt...

[Jared Sankovich]

260mm travel is HUGE. do you ever need to use the full length?

No, not at all. It's only 140mm under the nut so it has far more travel than really needed. This model (casolin f90) was available with the side tenoning table that adds a good bit of height, as well as 40mm and 50mm spindles with 180mm under the nut. I believe that was the main reason for the extra travel on this machine.

[Kevin Jenness]

Stacking cutters for mating cuts seems to be fairly common on spindles 1 1/4" and up. I can see that a 6" high stack of 10" diameter discs could be a bit sketchy, but the mfr's justification for the travel limits seems suspect.

The outboard tenoning table on your machine adds another factor. I guess the bottom line is, does the limited travel pose a serious problem for your operations?

[Jared Sankovich]

Stacking cutters for mating cuts seems to be fairly common on spindles 1 1/4" and up. I can see that a 6" high stack of 10" diameter discs could be a bit sketchy, but the mfr's justification for the travel limits seems suspect.

The outboard tenoning table on your machine adds another factor. I guess the bottom line is, does the limited travel pose a serious problem for your operations?

I would hope the quill raises high enough for the base of the spindle to be in plane (or close to it) with the tenoning table.

[Albert Lee]

Stacking cutters for mating cuts seems to be fairly common on spindles 1 1/4" and up. I can see that a 6" high stack of 10" diameter discs could be a bit sketchy, but the mfr's justification for the travel limits seems suspect.

The outboard tenoning table on your machine adds another factor. I guess the bottom line is, does the limited travel pose a serious problem for your operations?

Although the movement is limited to 2.75 inch/70mm, it doesnt affect the machines operation at all if I dont stack cutter blocks.

It just seems odd how entry level SCM spindle moulder can travel 5, 6 inches but not the higher end model.

[Albert Lee]

That seems odd.

My tilting machine has 5.5" or so of travel and I thought that was short. However the tilting mechanism along with the motor mounting orientation are the cause of the travel limitations.

Apparently I'm spoiled as my other two (non tilt) have 180mm/7" and 260mm/10" of travel.

Edit to add, looking at the pictures you posted again this dimension is the limiting factor on my tilting spindle. It looks like there is limited clearance there.
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You were right Jared. here are two photos of the machine at +45.5 deg at max lift, the motor is almost toughing the machine frame.

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[Joe Calhoon]

Interesting discussion, that does seem a little limiting Albert. Key would be how far it goes below the table and how far it goes above the cast table. Especially with the side mount slider that sits above the table. Looking at my shapers they all go at least 100mm below the table to allow for stacking. The Vintage Martin has 170mm of travel. My tilt both way Martin T26 only goes 125mm because of the 13HP motor. With the smaller motor it goes 150mm. My 20 year old Hofmann has 140mm of travel. It tilts forward 45 and back 5 degrees. The side mount table on all these are about 50mm off the main table.

I used to have a Casadei non tilt that went 220mm. I was looking at the specs for the Hofmann that tilts all the way over with a electrospindle. It has 180mm of travel. I wonder what the SCM electrospindle will do? Also had a Felder Profil 45 for a while and it had some limits. That one did not have much room under the table for larger diameter cutters.

A lot of improvements on shapers over the years in function and safety but lost a few things like large openings under and fences that swivel.