Input Needed on Leveling 16" Jointer on Garage Floor

[Todd Boyer]

After a ~7 month wait I finally got my 16" Grizzly G9953ZX jointer which is staged in my garage workshop. The garage floor, like most, is sloped toward garage door openings. I want to ensure the unit is; 1) level, and 2) not going to conform to any out of flat / twist condition the concrete floor may have as I know cast iron will conform to what it is sitting on. I am looking at using machine leveling mounts. Has anyone used machine level mounts on a large jointer or other similar large heavy piece and have suggestions on how they did setup? Once this is done I will then do final setup to ensure coplanar and squareness of the table/fence. Unit weight is ~1,650 lbs. Any suggestion or input would be appreciated. Yes, I maybe be a bit OCD but trying to do the right thing as well.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I can’t quite see the details of how a leveling bolt would mount to the base, but bolts with multiple nuts will also accomplish the same thing as pre-made machine leveling mounts, which admittedly I have never used. Do you have a link to the one you’re considering.

How out of plane is the floor where the jointer will sit?

I have a 12” Oliver 166 jointer which weighs around 2000 lbs and contacts the floor much further out towards each end with each end being cast iron in a large U shape where it touches the floor. This design is much more susceptible to twist from an out of plane floor and can cause some adjustment issues because of the cast iron moving to follow the twist in the floor as you mention.

My floor, amazingly, is flat and coplanar in the spot where the jointer lives and doesn’t have twist in the base, but if it did then I would absolutely use levelers, be they large diameter bolts and nuts or something manufactured specifically for that. You may also be able to get minor twist out with shimming under the low spots with metal/washers, but this is less reliable than some type of permanently mounted leveling setup and wouldn’t be the preferred option if more than just a corner or 2 had to be shimmed more than say 1/4”.

[Warren Lake]

have one in a place that is wonky. I used Hockey pucks and wood shims. Its likely a bit too high now but will do for now.

Patrick who was here in the past had some super high quality levellors on his Martin table saw and maybe other machines as well. Best ones ive seen. There is lots on you tube on how to turn hockey pucks into floor levellors with threaded rod and some Mcgiver.

Hopefully he doesnt mind me posting this, if so likely I live far enough away . Mercedes machine with Michelin tires.



461431

[Ronald Blue]

These from McMaster Carr look like they would work well with your machine base. Allowing you to level end to end and side to side as necessary.

https://www.mcmaster.com/leveling-pads/high-capacity-swivel-leveling-mounts-with-threaded-stud/

[John TenEyck]

These from McMaster Carr look like they would work well with your machine base. Allowing you to level end to end and side to side as necessary.

https://www.mcmaster.com/leveling-pads/high-capacity-swivel-leveling-mounts-with-threaded-stud/

I use the 1/2" thread, 2" diameter ones on cabinets I build for a company that puts precision test machines on top of them. They are very robust, very well made, and easy to adjust. A potential downside for leveling a jointer is they will increase the height at least 1-1/4".

John

[Warren Lake]

yeah mines too high. Some sort of outboard or inside then could be figured out so the whole thing is on starting at the base of the machine but rather higher up. If something is on the outside its going to have to look pretty pro or it will bug me and I like being able to stand and move where I want and not have stuff in the way.

[Jim Becker]

For a heavy tool that is to be stationary, my preference is to use shims rather than leveling feet. Why? You can use shims that cover the entire area of the "foot" rather than concentrating the weight on the stem of a leveling bolt. But that's me. Others might disagree.

[Bill Dufour]

Level is not required. Does it have three feet or is it four? Level is often used simply because it makes it easier to determine planer and remove twist.
Many folks make the mistake of ending up too tall on the adjustment. I would set them maybe 3/8" up and them move them down too level. The less extension on the bolt the less leverage acting to bend it around.
Depending on your height and width of boards you may want to set the machine higher then stock. If so use shims not longer bolts.
Bill

[Jim Becker]

Bill, it's true that a jointer doesn't have to be level...but many of us prefer our tools to be level. At the very least, our 10,000 pencils will not roll off the surface. :)

[Dave Zellers]

I agree with Jim's shims. :D

I would mark the precise location of the jointer on the floor with a sharpie, move the jointer out of the way, shim the floor with tapered shims at the 3 low corners to be perfect in all directions, then measure each shim thickness and make the 3 required shims out of a very hard wood or metal. This way you will know you are placing the jointer on a level surface and any twist that might have developed while it was sitting on the uneven floor, will correct itself.

I see your OCD and call.

I'm getting Crocodile Dundee moments comparing my 8" Grizzly to that monster.

"That's not a jointer, Now THAT'S a jointer!"

Enjoy!

[Ira Matheny]

The correct way to permanently install heavy machines is as follows:
[1] Position the machine in it final location.
[2] shim into perfect level
[3] install epoxy anchors into the concrete floor, thus fastening into permanent location
[4] Grout the complete base with a hi-strength cementious grout. use about 1" thick grout at minimum thickness.
[5] allow to cure as per mfgr's instructions
[6] enjoy
I've installed hundreds and hundreds (if not thousands) of piece equipment, tanks, pumps, etc in this manner with no failures. This is the only way corporate America handles this issue. This was my business for 40 years.
And by the way, total cost for epoxy embed anchors and hi-strength grout should be less than $100. And 'NO' don't expect to find anyone in Lowe's or HD that knows anything about fastening down heavy machinery.

[Ron Selzer]

The correct way to permanently install heavy machines is as follows:
[1] Position the machine in it final location.
[2] shim into perfect level
[3] install epoxy anchors into the concrete floor, thus fastening into permanent location
[4] Grout the complete base with a hi-strength cementious grout. use about 1" thick grout at minimum thickness.
[5] allow to cure as per mfgr's instructions
[6] enjoy
I've installed hundreds and hundreds (if not thousands) of piece equipment, tanks, pumps, etc in this manner with no failures. This is the only way corporate America handles this issue. This was my business for 40 years.
And by the way, total cost for epoxy embed anchors and hi-strength grout should be less than $100. And 'NO' don't expect to find anyone in Lowe's or HD that knows anything about fastening down heavy machinery.

THIS IS THE PROPER WAY
the above is okay for smaller machines, for what you have it needs done as above
Ron

[Andrew Hughes]

The Manuel for my jointer also says to level it and grout in place. It also says not to bolt it down. The manufacturer says the concrete foundation should be at least 6 inches thick. Im short for sure
Ive got 2inchs of slope to my shop floor and a live oak tree roots that add more whenever it wants.
My jointer has oil bath bearings so I believe the level part is important.

[Mark e Kessler]

I have a sloping garage floor as well, I just use a shim to make up the difference. If the frame twists due floor not being level than you have other issues… On my slider I used 4” levelers from mcmaster carr (2531K128) with extra thick washers, the slider is one that I want close to level so the slide stays put when not using it…

its the one on the right…obviously 🤪
461440

[Dave Zellers]

All of this is a lot of words that in the end, boil down to Jim's shims.

Shim the floor.

[johnny means]

The correct way to permanently install heavy machines is as follows:
[1] Position the machine in it final location.
[2] shim into perfect level
[3] install epoxy anchors into the concrete floor, thus fastening into permanent location
[4] Grout the complete base with a hi-strength cementious grout. use about 1" thick grout at minimum thickness.
[5] allow to cure as per mfgr's instructions
[6] enjoy
I've installed hundreds and hundreds (if not thousands) of piece equipment, tanks, pumps, etc in this manner with no failures. This is the only way corporate America handles this issue. This was my business for 40 years.
And by the way, total cost for epoxy embed anchors and hi-strength grout should be less than $100. And 'NO' don't expect to find anyone in Lowe's or HD that knows anything about fastening down heavy machinery.

Seems a bit much for a 16" jointer.

[Charles Coolidge]

Machine leveling pads will be fine, they are used to level 9,300lb Haas CNC milling machines. Machinist level if you truly want the machine level. I used to have a used Starrett 199Z I bought off ebay.

[Warren Lake]

been in a ton of shops many top ones. Never seen an instal of a woodworking machine that way.

A larger jointer weighs from 1,300 to 1,600 lbs. Its not going anywhere.

The first 8" jointer I had was a toy by comparison. It could have benefited from being bolted down for heavy material but more important was infeed and out feed support.

[Andrew Hughes]

In California there is good reason for securing machines with grout and such. Earthquakes
I talked to Oshpd deputy inspector for hospital work. We discussed the seismic over engineering that goes in hospitals. He personally inspected a basement in older building downtown Los Angeles. This basement had a very large sheer left behind from the past. He said after the Northridge earthquake there wasn’t a wall in that basement that wasn’t touched by that shear.
I keep putting off the tethering my bandsaw. I’m sure it will fall over in big enough earthquake :(

[Alex Zeller]

I'm not sure if I would spend too much time leveling a jointer. Get it close and make sure each foot has equal pressure on it. Think about it, once it's in place you are going to adjust the outfeed table to the cutter head and in feed table. I guess you could go back and fine tune the levelness.

[Bill Dufour]

In California there is good reason for securing machines with grout and such. Earthquakes
I talked to Oshpd deputy inspector for hospital work. We discussed the seismic over engineering that goes in hospitals. He personally inspected a basement in older building downtown Los Angeles. This basement had a very large sheer left behind from the past. He said after the Northridge earthquake there wasn’t a wall in that basement that wasn’t touched by that shear.
I keep putting off the tethering my bandsaw. I’m sure it will fall over in big enough earthquake :(


Andrew after 1989 most Hospitals in California are being torn down and rebuilt to new codes. They really started enforcing retrofitting or shut down laws for hospitals around twenty years ago.
I just found out my garage, and probably entire house, built in 1969 has no siding under the stucco. So the chicken wire is the only shear wall.
The other way to mount a machine is to put down plastic, or not, then pour a plinth or two of level concrete with embedded anchor bolts. The plastic will allow it to be removed easily if desired.
Bill D.
Modesto, CA

[Myles Moran]

The correct way to permanently install heavy machines is as follows:
[1] Position the machine in it final location.
[2] shim into perfect level
[3] install epoxy anchors into the concrete floor, thus fastening into permanent location
[4] Grout the complete base with a hi-strength cementious grout. use about 1" thick grout at minimum thickness.
[5] allow to cure as per mfgr's instructions
[6] enjoy
I've installed hundreds and hundreds (if not thousands) of piece equipment, tanks, pumps, etc in this manner with no failures. This is the only way corporate America handles this issue. This was my business for 40 years.
And by the way, total cost for epoxy embed anchors and hi-strength grout should be less than $100. And 'NO' don't expect to find anyone in Lowe's or HD that knows anything about fastening down heavy machinery.

This is the exact method I spec for any sort of permanent equipment installation. I usually call for 2" of grout, but we also commonly have large flat plates that need a bit more massaging to get the grout to fully flow and make contact underneath. For a jointer (assuming it's just the outline of the footprint) I see no issues with 1". I'd only add that using chamfer on the formwork will give a cleaner look without a sharp edge.

[Jerry Bruette]

The correct way to permanently install heavy machines is as follows:
[1] Position the machine in it final location.
[2] shim into perfect level
[3] install epoxy anchors into the concrete floor, thus fastening into permanent location
[4] Grout the complete base with a hi-strength cementious grout. use about 1" thick grout at minimum thickness.
[5] allow to cure as per mfgr's instructions
[6] enjoy
I've installed hundreds and hundreds (if not thousands) of piece equipment, tanks, pumps, etc in this manner with no failures. This is the only way corporate America handles this issue. This was my business for 40 years.
And by the way, total cost for epoxy embed anchors and hi-strength grout should be less than $100. And 'NO' don't expect to find anyone in Lowe's or HD that knows anything about fastening down heavy machinery.

This is the way we were taught in millwright school when I did my apprenticeship.

[Bill Dufour]

I knew we might move so here is how I anchored my lathe. Set it i n it's place and marked for all four anchor bolt locations. Moved it over a bit and drilled each mark for a 3/8 drop in anchor. Dropped in an anchor and had all thread sticking up 14" or so above floor level.
I cut some 6" PVC pipe to 12 inches. Used a length of 1/2" pvc as a core for the anchor bolt hole then filled each piece with concrete to the top. The anchor hole was off center so the leveling bolt was centered since it as about 2-3 inches away from the hold down location.
After the concrete had cured for a few days I picked up each piece and put it in a bucket of water for a few more days to cure underwater. Then I placed one pedestal over each piece of all thread and dropped the lathe over the all thread and bolted it down. I left the pvc on the concrete and painted it blue.
I am 6'2" so the extra height helps me and it allows milk crates to go under the lathe to store junk.
This is to be reversed soon as I move the lathe to a new home. I will fill the old anchor holes with concrete self leveling caulk. I feel safer with my 1750 pound lathe bolted down so it will not fall over on my feet, ever.
Bill D

[Kevin Jenness]

Your 1750 lb. lathe is sitting on 12" standoffs above the floor? Yikes. Let's have some pictures...

[Andrew Hughes]

That’s a good idea.
Thanks

[Tom Bender]

The Manuel for my jointer also says to level it and grout in place. It also says not to bolt it down. The manufacturer says the concrete foundation should be at least 6 inches thick. Im short for sure
Ive got 2inchs of slope to my shop floor and a live oak tree roots that add more whenever it wants.
My jointer has oil bath bearings so I believe the level part is important.

You've got a tree attacking your house? Fight back! Dig a trench along your foundation and cut those roots. Add a harder and deeper barrier. The tree will not be harmed much.

[Tom Bender]

Leveling feet are ok for lighter machines but yours is not that light. If you go that way use feet with at least 1/2" threads. Grouting is a better answer. Not only will it be more secure, it will not collect stuff and critters underneath. Raising it an inch may be good if there is ever any water on the floor. A chamfered pad have a professional look.

Congrats on the new machine.

[Brian Holcombe]

I’ve been tempted by Airloc leveling pads. They’re a cast iron block with a screw driven wedge padded top and bottom with a vibration damping material.

They have stuff rated up to 25000 lbs, so they seem like a pretty serious setup.

[Mark e Kessler]

Don’t buy by looking at the thread diameter alone, look at diameter ,pitch and pad diameter (there is more to consider but that would be going overboard :D). Also important to use thick washers and obviously a solid mounting point.

leveling feet are fine for heavy machines, i have seen 30kpd grinding machines on 8’ deep isolation pads, the pads i showed are 1/2” x 13 with a 4” pad and are rated at 5k each. There are also some in the same style 3/8 x 16 with a 3”pad rated at 5k per. My saw is somewhere around 1800pds and one corner is up maybe 2” on a sloped garage floor and is as solid as can be…

Not sure why anyone would want to grout their woodworking machines in place, is that a earthquake area thing? The place I work has hundreds if not a thousand high precision machines and I haven’t seen one grouted in place, we are currently installing a new Fastems work cell with 5 cnc centers and a robot - each machine is isolated from the main slab and on levelers sans the robot, it is on a track/rack that holds 5k tools and is bolted directly to concrete pillars.

[Mark e Kessler]

I’ve been tempted by Airloc leveling pads. They’re a cast iron block with a screw driven wedge padded top and bottom with a vibration damping material.

They have stuff rated up to 25000 lbs, so they seem like a pretty serious setup.


I have seen that style go up to 100k + rating, definitely easier to adjust for a precision machine, the stud style can be a hassle depending on the location and if you need to readjust often - i have seen stud style go up to 40k rating…

[Myk Rian]

All of this is a lot of words that in the end, boil down to Jim's shims.

Shim the floor.
Yeah, that.

[David Zaret]

Yeah, that.

i guess i have to rethink all of my equipment. my jointer is significantly larger than 16", and it's sitting on rubber pads on the floor. i didn't even "level" my CNC.... just made sure the legs are on the ground (via shims). anything more feels like overkill... or i'm uninformed. both are possible.

[Phil Gaudio]

After a ~7 month wait I finally got my 16" Grizzly G9953ZX jointer which is staged in my garage workshop. The garage floor, like most, is sloped toward garage door openings. I want to ensure the unit is; 1) level, and 2) not going to conform to any out of flat / twist condition the concrete floor may have as I know cast iron will conform to what it is sitting on. I am looking at using machine leveling mounts. Has anyone used machine level mounts on a large jointer or other similar large heavy piece and have suggestions on how they did setup? Once this is done I will then do final setup to ensure coplanar and squareness of the table/fence. Unit weight is ~1,650 lbs. Any suggestion or input would be appreciated. Yes, I maybe be a bit OCD but trying to do the right thing as well.

I have the very same situation with a sloping floor and a 16" jointer/planer. I did not level it: does not matter if its level. I used a single shim to ensure all four points of contact were making contact. Its been fine for a couple of years now.

461772

[glenn bradley]

In California there is good reason for securing machines with grout and such. Earthquakes
I talked to Oshpd deputy inspector for hospital work. We discussed the seismic over engineering that goes in hospitals. He personally inspected a basement in older building downtown Los Angeles. This basement had a very large sheer left behind from the past. He said after the Northridge earthquake there wasn’t a wall in that basement that wasn’t touched by that shear.
I keep putting off the tethering my bandsaw. I’m sure it will fall over in big enough earthquake :(

When I don't want to tether I use ballast. My drill press is bolted to a wooden base full of dry concrete mix:
461776461775461774461773
The mobile base is due for an upgrade. I have never liked that base but, move the DP so seldom, it keeps getting to live for another day.

As to leveling, this is a personal choice. A few of my machine surfaces are also reference surfaces so those are true to mother earth. Others are just stable and "About right". :)

[Bill Dufour]

My vertical air compressor would rock a bit when ever it turned on or off. I coulds ee it move from across the room. So I stopped by the side of the road and picked up some big rig recap treads, AKA: alligators. Slipped one under each foot and no more visible rocking. I tried to get pieces of equal thickness with no steel belts. I gave up trying to cut them and just used the entire pieces with extra sticking out the back side.
Bill D

I still need to chain it to the wall in case of quakes. I could strap it like a waterheater but I feel slack chain will not transmit vibration and mak it louder like strapping might.

[Mark e Kessler]

When I don't want to tether I use ballast. My drill press is bolted to a wooden base full of dry concrete mix:
461776461775461774461773
The mobile base is due for an upgrade. I have never liked that base but, move the DP so seldom, it keeps getting to live for another day.

As to leveling, this is a personal choice. A few of my machine surfaces are also reference surfaces so those are true to mother earth. Others are just stable and "About right". :)


That’s a great idea Glenn! I have a dp with a bigger base now but I wish I had thought of this in the past. Like you the only machines I bothered to level as close as I could was the slider mainly so the slide stays put wherever it is, i also only used levelers on it because it is easier to dial it in and mostly because I occasionally have to move it out of the way and with the levelers it’s easy to put it back exactly where it was without fiddling with the shims, the jointer 1800# i just use a wedge to get rid of the wobble, it’s definitely not level with earth…

[Jim Becker]

i guess i have to rethink all of my equipment. my jointer is significantly larger than 16", and it's sitting on rubber pads on the floor. i didn't even "level" my CNC.... just made sure the legs are on the ground (via shims). anything more feels like overkill... or i'm uninformed. both are possible.

I don't level my J/P either, but I do choose an orientation that's either uphill/downhill or across the slope; never on an angle. CNC is level as is my workbench as much as practical. Everything else I try to keep in similar planes as with the J/P.

[Brian Holcombe]

Leveling is helpful, it helps to make sure that an area of the machine is not left unsupported. For things with tables it helps allow one to setup the tables with a machinist level rather than needing a long straight edge.

[Bill Dufour]

When I don't want to tether I use ballast. My drill press is bolted to a wooden base full of dry concrete mix:
461776461775461774461773
The mobile base is due for an upgrade. I have never liked that base but, move the DP so seldom, it keeps getting to live for another day.

As to leveling, this is a personal choice. A few of my machine surfaces are also reference surfaces so those are true to mother earth. Others are just stable and "About right". :)

I prefer gravel or aggregate over concrete. Less problems if it leaks. MY DP base ballast is old motors and nuts/bolts/nails. No chance of wayward dust getting into sliding surfaces and causing problems. Saw dust is bad enough without grit added.
My brother's garage door counterweight was old hunks of iron. He would take pieces as needed and throw in replacement weight in either iron or rocks.
The Big Ben, in London, clock has coins on top of the pendulum to adjust the weight for summer and winter. A few pennies makes a difference on a pendulum weighing tons. They always run pendulum clocks a little slow because it is hard to set time backwards.

Bill D.

[Joe Calhoon]

I level most of my machines with just a carpenter level. I use Formica sample chips. Some machines are on wheels and I don’t worry about them. My 2 heavy machines are a Kundig WBS and Martin T90. The Kundig has built in leveling feet and they said it should be adjusted level. The Martin came with large hard rubber pads. They said to set it on the pads and not worry about level.