Why do cars all look alike?

[dennis thompson]

I was driving and saw a Jaguar suv that, to me, looks
a lot like a Honda CRV. I saw a Tesla which isn't very different from a Honda Accord. I drive a Nissan Frontier which looks like every other small pickup on the road. The only thing I've seen recently that's different was the Polaris Slingshot , which I guess isn't a car. Why do all cars look alike?

[Alex Zeller]

It's like paint colors. People like what they like and what's popular at the time will tend to be what every brand makes. Second is fuel economy and safety. Every once in a while a company will try to go outside the box, like the PT cruiser but if sales don't happen they get dropped. If it's a hit, like the mini van was, then the next reason comes into play. Laziness. If Toyota has a great selling vehicle others will copy it with their own twist. As far as Tesla goes, do you like the looks of their Truck? I think it's hideous and wouldn't be caught dead in one. If everyone is like me it's not going to sell well and we will have more trucks that look like the F150.

[Rod Sheridan]

I was driving and saw a Jaguar suv that, to me, looks
a lot like a Honda CRV. I saw a Tesla which isn't very different from a Honda Accord. I drive a Nissan Frontier which looks like every other small pickup on the road. The only thing I've seen recently that's different was the Polaris Slingshot , which I guess isn't a car. Why do all cars look alike?

Why do cars look alike?

Mathematics.



Physics determines the shape of the vehicle for passenger automobiles as one of the main drivers of design is fuel efficiency.

Regards, Rod

[Jim Becker]

Just like in any thing "subjective" the market relative to automotive design seems to flow somewhat like a river, with everyone going in the same general direction. And honestly, there's only so much you can do to differentiate these days. A big clue to make/model at this point is the shape of the DRL and rear tail light LEDs. :) And this is also brought on by buyers...if sales start to skew because the market seems to like a particular design, other makers follow suit to gain back those buyers who are basing a lot of their buying decision on what something looks like. It's also why the first things you always hear after a redesign is "I hate it!". :) :D And then it grows on them so that the same people suddenly like the new design.

My pet peeve is more around color choices...I'm tired of the "50 shades of grey" plus a muted red, etc., that's typical for most vehicles. Why are the creamy non-metallic pleasant shades or bold colors only available on Wranglers and Crostreks, etc.? And what's with the constant leak of offering in some manufacturer's highest trims for a light colored interior. I HATE black interiors. And that's an understatement... :)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Just like in any thing "subjective" the market relative to automotive design seems to flow somewhat like a river, with everyone going in the same general direction. And honestly, there's only so much you can do to differentiate these days. A big clue to make/model at this point is the shape of the DRL and rear tail light LEDs. :) And this is also brought on by buyers...if sales start to skew because the market seems to like a particular design, other makers follow suit to gain back those buyers who are basing a lot of their buying decision on what something looks like. It's also why the first things you always hear after a redesign is "I hate it!". :) :D And then it grows on them so that the same people suddenly like the new design.

My pet peeve is more around color choices...I'm tired of the "50 shades of grey" plus a muted red, etc., that's typical for most vehicles. Why are the creamy non-metallic pleasant shades or bold colors only available on Wranglers and Crostreks, etc.? And what's with the constant leak of offering in some manufacturer's highest trims for a light colored interior. I HATE black interiors. And that's an understatement... :)

For the record my friend, when we were in the market last November, my wife bought a new "Sparkly Red" Honda CRV. Red was her determined requirement.

[Dave Mills]

Most people aren't willing to pay for exotic design, interesting materials and expensive paints. Most people are shopping for an "A to B" car, and when that's the demand, that's what car manufacturers make. Home Depot still doesn't carry Lie Nielsen tools...

[Jim Becker]

For the record my friend, when we were in the market last November, my wife bought a new "Sparkly Red" Honda CRV. Red was her determined requirement.

It was good she could get the color she wanted!


Most people aren't willing to pay for exotic design, interesting materials and expensive paints. Most people are shopping for an "A to B" car, and when that's the demand, that's what car manufacturers make. Home Depot still doesn't carry Lie Nielsen tools...

It's become more difficult to buy just an "A to B" vehicle anymore with pretty much every major manufacturer. Creative feature bundling pushes folks into higher trim levels for that one "must have" feature they personally can't live without. The industry has moved away from "basic" for some time now; some of that to satisfy safety requirements and some because of what folks actually want. So volume sales are not at the low end anymore and the average new vehicle sales price in the US is north of $35K at this point.

[Dave Mills]

It's become more difficult to buy just an "A to B" vehicle anymore with pretty much every major manufacturer. Creative feature bundling pushes folks into higher trim levels for that one "must have" feature they personally can't live without. The industry has moved away from "basic" for some time now; some of that to satisfy safety requirements and some because of what folks actually want. So volume sales are not at the low end anymore and the average new vehicle sales price in the US is north of $35K at this point.

But I didn't say A to B was cheap, maybe I wasn't clear. I said that exotic designs, materials and paints, the things I associate with making cars look different, were not priorities people want to pay for. Yes, they'll pay for internet connectivity, and other convenience features that make their lives more comfortable.

[Jim Becker]

That's true, Dave!

[Frederick Skelly]

Why do cars look alike?

Mathematics.

Physics determines the shape of the vehicle for passenger automobiles as one of the main drivers of design is fuel efficiency.

Regards, Rod

Rod has it right. If the vehicles are roughly the same size, they are effected the same way by the air they are driving through. That means the same "fixes" are necessary to reduce drag and increase efficiency - adjust the slope of the roof, the basic shape of the front end and the basic shape of the back end. With those shapes locked-into similar dimensions to gain fuel economy, the design guys dont have a lot of things left to play with. So your CRV looks alot like a Volvo, looks alot like a Ford, etc.

[dennis thompson]

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Well here's one that I like, doesn't look like a Honda to me:)

[Michael Weber]

My wife pointed out an SUV just ahead of us. It was a Porsche:confused:. Could have fooled me. Certainly nothing to distinguish it from every other SUV. I simply cannot imagine what a porsche suv should look like but that wasn’t it. As a former owner of a couple of 50’s/60’s Jaguars (XKE and Mark II sedan[chrome to die for]) I agree with the previous poster lamenting what new ones look like.

[Edward Weber]

Why do cars all look alike?
Because people are sheep.
Have you seen what passes for a pickup truck these days. They've morphed from a strictly work utility platform to haul items to the family car.
Sedans have morphed into small CUV's, Station wagons have morphed into mid-sized SUV's and anything bigger like a Suburban is now just another SUV.
These days, cars run better are more fuel efficient, safer, more reliable and have more creature comforts but the styling is gone, on a large percentage of them anyway.
These days the selling points are how many USB ports it has.

[Warren Lake]

I like old machines, I like old cars. Never found old stuff to be unreliable.

[Doug Dawson]

For the record my friend, when we were in the market last November, my wife bought a new "Sparkly Red" Honda CRV. Red was her determined requirement.
Most people just want to fit in. Some people don’t, and more power to that.

Not everyone wants to drive a Jaguar E-Type, for example.

Re another comment, yes aerodynamics plays a big role, but conformity with the current styling fashion plays a big role too (aerodynamics allowing.)

[Lee DeRaud]

My pet peeve is more around color choices...I'm tired of the "50 shades of grey" plus a muted red, etc., that's typical for most vehicles. Why are the creamy non-metallic pleasant shades or bold colors only available on Wranglers and Crostreks, etc.? And what's with the constant leak of offering in some manufacturer's highest trims for a light colored interior. I HATE black interiors. And that's an understatement... :)Yup. My current car ('16 Accord) is a metallic dark-red/burgundy. It's a decent enough color, but not necessarily my first choice. My must-have list started with "light interior", which reduced the number of available color combinations to two.

[Jim Becker]

My must-have list started with "light interior", which reduced the number of available color combinations to two.
That right there is a subset of my pet peeve atout colors...limited combinations.

[Malcolm McLeod]

... imagine what a porsche suv should look like but that wasn’t it. ...

Does this look like a Porsche (https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/11/20909771/porsche-boeing-partnership-flying-cars-rich-people)?:D:cool::D Maybe there will be an SUV version too?:eek: You should see the Aston Martin entry in this category (https://evtol.news/aston-martin-volante/).


I like old machines, I like old cars. Never found old stuff to be unreliable.

Experiences vary.
I had a '71 Grand Prix (...if that qualifies as 'old'); it required LOTS of shop time (...if that qualifies as 'unreliable'). Everything from points & plugs, timing, carb adjustments, brakes, oil leaks, wheel bearings, .....today, I would return it as a lemon - in a heartbeat.:(

I have a 2007 FJ Cruiser since new (170k miles now); it has never even needed brakes (just tires & oil - - oh, and almost forgot, I had to put new CV boots on the front end at ~100k). And it is my off-road beater, not a pavement queen.

We've come a long way baby. IMHO.

[John K Jordan]

I think some of it is automobile design has evolved to what works. People like the functionality of certain styles so they get copied.

[John Stankus]

Most people just want to fit in. Some people don’t, and more power to that.

Not everyone wants to drive a Jaguar E-Type, for example.



The day-to-day living with "Cool" cars can be a bit of a pain too. My '96 Z28 Convertible is a cool car, but as a daily driver...it's low (looking up at the underside of the pickup trucks around here), it has a stiff suspension, its noisy, the doors are freaking long (not great in parking lots), it leaks in the rain (common convertible problem) and did I mention it is low (it can be fun getting in and out of):). Under the right conditions its a helluva lot of fun, though.

John

[roger wiegand]

My Mini doesn't look exactly like every other car on the road, one of the things I like about it. It gets decent (>30) gas mileage without identical aerodynamics.

We're looking for new vehicles, both of ours could use replacing. At least one will probably be a full electric. Which brings me to my newest pet peeve. If you want a Tesla in something other than the hideous white it will cost you an extra thousand bucks. If you want a red one it will cost an extra $2000. Too many MBAs at work figuring out how to maximize profit opportunities.

[Lee DeRaud]

That right there is a subset of my pet peeve atout colors...limited combinations.A side effect of the demise of "build to order".

[Brian Elfert]

Some of the federal safety regulations also affect vehicle design. To me, today’s car designs are a lot better than many of the 1980s designs.

People complain that today’s vehicles are harder to work on, but they also require a lot less repairs than older vehicles. I worked at a place in the late 80s into the late 90s that was still running old vehicles for 12 days per year. The vehicles probably spent an hour or more in the shop for every hour on the road. A mechanic spent overnights servicing the dozen vehicles. Each vehicle spent at least a week in the shop during the off-season getting worked on. A mechanic checked the vehicles half way through each 16 hour day and had to add oil to all of them.

[Jim Becker]

Which brings me to my newest pet peeve. If you want a Tesla in something other than the hideous white it will cost you an extra thousand bucks. If you want a red one it will cost an extra $2000. Too many MBAs at work figuring out how to maximize profit opportunities.
Did Tesla change things? It used to be that the default exterior color was black and any other color was an upcharge...white I could enjoy. (I drive two white vehicles now) Black...not in a million years for me. Then again with Tesla, for the most part, the color is the only real option unless you're opting for full autonomous.

[Bill Dufour]

Neighbor has a Porsche SUV the front end looks like a 1955 Citroen. DS. Those cars were ahead of the times in styling and suspensions. They updated to new body in the 1970's. that is still recognizable as a citroen. Not a CV2.
Bill D.

[Mike Henderson]

Some of the federal safety regulations also affect vehicle design. To me, today’s car designs are a lot better than many of the 1980s designs.

People complain that today’s vehicles are harder to work on, but they also require a lot less repairs than older vehicles. I worked at a place in the late 80s into the late 90s that was still running old vehicles for 12 days per year. The vehicles probably spent an hour or more in the shop for every hour on the road. A mechanic spent overnights servicing the dozen vehicles. Each vehicle spent at least a week in the shop during the off-season getting worked on. A mechanic checked the vehicles half way through each 16 hour day and had to add oil to all of them.

I'm with Brian. I worked on quite a few old cars and new cars are a LOT better. Maybe a lot is better oil now than we had back then, but they all used oil. If you're old enough you'll remember that people used to check the oil every time they did a fill-up. And it was common to have to add a quart of oil. Do young people even know what a dipstick is?

Also, if you got a 100,000 miles out of your car, you had a celebration. Few people kept a car beyond 100,000 miles.

It was a number of things. The cylinders/rings wore and oil would get into the combustion chamber and get burned. But the big problem was wear in the valve guides. Since the intake valve had suction on it, when it wore (and it always wore) oil would be sucked into the cylinder and burned. It was common to see a car start off with a big cloud of (oil based) smoke. You had to have a valve job about every 50,000 miles.

No, when people found out that I did some restoration on older cars, they would say, "They don't build them like they used to" and I would say "Thank Goodness - they build them a lot better."

One thing you discover when you restore an old car - when you're finished what you have is an old car.

Mike

[And that was only half of it. Water pumps failed on a regular basis, radiators leaked, the hoses to the radiator leaked, mufflers got holes in them, alternators failed, fuel pumps failed, spark plugs had to be replaced on a regular basis, and the vehicle wouldn't reliably start on a cold morning. In an accident, you were more likely to be injured or killed in one of those old cars than in a new car.]

[And that doesn't include the transmission. The older automatic transmissions were dogs and they failed on a regular basis. There were companies who specialized in transmission repair and today, you rarely see a transmission shop. And almost all cars have automatic transmissions.]

[Brian Elfert]

I think the real reason oil was checked at every fill-up in the real old days was because so much oil was burned.

My parents had a 1977 Ford LTD II. The engine went out at 85,000 miles. My father put a junkyard engine in it, but my father junked the car at 100,000 miles as it was shutting off on the highway. Not worth fixing.

[Rich Engelhardt]

The Porsche SUV can be had w/670 hp and can go 184 mph...
I get sort of hinky when I do 84 in my wife's Sportage.....

Anyhow - ironic - this thread - since just the ither day I asked my wife the exact same question - "Why do all the cars look the same"?
She just told me I was old and can't see or hear anymore so just go back and daydream about the good old days like you always do.

I downloaded a picture of Irina Meir and stuck it on my laptop as the background - just to get back at her. :D

[Jim Becker]

That was good, Rich... 'almost spit my beloved latté on the keyboard reading it. :D

[Bob Turkovich]

More stringent vehicle occupant safety standards introduced in the last 15 years had as much effect on vehicle design as meeting fuel economy standards. It started with raising the compliance test speed from 30mph to 35mph - an increase in energy load of 36% which changed how designers/engineers had to manage load to protect the occupants.

The growing interest in expanding pedestrian safety standards - if implemented - will reduce design options even further.

https://www.hotcars.com/why-pedestrian-safety-ruining-car-design/

[Jim Becker]

Bob, those things are very evident in the way the front end of vehicles are now designed relative to collision and pedestrian safety and the rake angle of the A-pillars, which is a lot more than in the past; that angle is directly associated with fuel economy, even though they have slightly compromised lateral vision for many drivers. Since all the manufacturers have had to pay attention to these things, the general designs have pretty much coalesced to the point that only subtle clues give away the actual make and model.

[Jim Koepke]

My thoughts on this may be way off, but on the road it seems a lot of cars were designed by fans of Star Wars who liked the look of the Storm Troopers helmets:

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Or possibly Shoe Boxes with a Dog's nose:

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It is no wonder the best selling vehicle may still be a pick up truck:

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This is from a few years ago, but there sure seems to be a lot of short bed pick up trucks on the road. Some of them look like the bed is kind of short to bring a sofa or a washer and dryer home.

Does the four door crew cab make it a family car?

jtk

[Lee DeRaud]

I downloaded a picture of Irina Meir and stuck it on my laptop as the background - just to get back at her. :DDidn't recognize that name, googled it...oh my. Looks like a young Cassandra Peterson.

And now I really feel old: Elvira will turn 70 in a couple of months.

[Lee DeRaud]

And now, this:


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[Bill Dufour]

Read a good description, maybe on this site. Many modern cars look like a ladies handbag. There is a korean van that looks like a refrigerator vegetable bin, upside down.
Here is the 1955 Citreon Ds. Still looks modern, front wheel drive, hydraulic suspension, no spare tire needed , no jack needed just pull bad wheel off the pavement etc.
Bill D.

[glenn bradley]

Yup. My current car ('16 Accord) is a metallic dark-red/burgundy. It's a decent enough color, but not necessarily my first choice. My must-have list started with "light interior", which reduced the number of available color combinations to two.

Obviously mass car producers have to produce for the masses. They spend tons of time and money figuring out what most people are likely to buy. Like Lee and others this leaves me with color combinations that are limited and not my first choice. It's a variation on the problem of "if you want the sun roof you have to take the leather interior" scenario. The interesting thing to me is some of the choices made for color combinations. The idea that studies show those combinations to be attractive to most of my fellow humans is disturbing on some level :)

[Warren Lake]

if you want to learn about Citroens Jay Leno has a good you tube and was very impressed

[Stan Calow]

Growing up in the sixties, any boy older than 12 could tell you what year a Mustang or Camaro was at a glance, by the taillights. But we could also tell who owned a Chevy from the oil spots in the driveway, and Fords were nicknamed Fix-Or-Repair-Daily.

You know how everyone marvels at how they have managed to keep all those old cars from the '50s running in Cuba? I saw one program where it was casually mentioned that often, they have replaced the powertrains with modern Toyota equipment, as the engines gave out a long time ago. They just keep the bodies up.

I parked my black Toyota SUV in a parking lot one time, and six other black SUVs were parked next to it when I came out. Couldn't remember my license plate. I've taken to putting one of those yellow "Support our Troops" ribbons on each side of the car to help me find it.

[Alex Zeller]

I had a 1977 Toyota Corolla coupe. Probably the best car I owned. In the 200k miles I owned it the only thing that went on it was the clutch and a radiator hose that fed water into the heater core. Other than that it was the usual stuff like plugs and wires. Not only did it run for well over 300k (until the kid I sold it to put it into a ditch) it also started no matter how cold it was. Back then American cars were junk. You bought one and in 3 years rust was forming. Companies would just drive screws through the sheet metal. It was so bad that the rust proofing companies had shops right next to the dealerships so new cars could be brought strait to them.

I think a lot of it is what we still see. It's a "we do it that way because we've always done it that way" attitude. It's the same with car design. Dodge makes a minivan that sells so everyone makes a copy of it. Then they experiment with changing a few design aspects without changing the whole design and it looks like a Barbi doll with GI Joe's head on it. What's really bad is all the concept cars that have come out. Ones that look like a real change in a good way and yet when the actual production model shows up it looks like the design was given to a guy who only wear beige suits for approval.

Anyone remember this 1999 Pontiac GTO?
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Probably not because this is what was released in 2004.
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[Brian Elfert]

My thoughts on this may be way off, but on the road it seems a lot of cars were designed by fans of Star Wars who liked the look of the Storm Troopers helmets:



Or possibly Shoe Boxes with a Dog's nose:

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This ugly design may be part of the reason Toyota discontinued the Scion brand back in 2016. I actually considered buying the second generation of this model a number of years ago. The second generation at least looks better than this one.

[Kev Williams]

the lack of originality in car design these days boggles the mind --

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cover the wheels and make 'em all white, and.... sad...

Yesterday I saw what I THOUGHT might be a re-designed Dodge Charger, which are actually reasonably unique cars.
Turns out it was a Porsche...

I like unique cars. Trying to talk the wife into letting me buy this '50 Ford gasser --
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--right now the only 2 cars we own are HERS, which are 1989 and 2013 Mustang GT convertibles. I love 'em, and they're reasonably unique. You see one, you know it's a Mustang :)
-my cars are a Ford F250 and an old Chevy van. Good vehicles but not very unique. (at least they don't look like any of the above)
Where , what-for and when I drive her cars, I could use the old Ford for no problem, even it if it is essentially a dragster :D

[Gary Ragatz]

Do young people even know what a dipstick is?


Of course they do. They encounter them every day on Twitter.

[Brian Elfert]

Manufacturers often copy each other when it comes to vehicle designs. The PT Cruiser was immensely popular when first released. GM came out with a similar design hoping to sell a bunch like Chrysler did. The Ford Escape was a typical boxy SUV design up until 2012. For 2013 Ford came out with a sleeker design for the Escape that pretty much matched what other manufacturers were offering.

[Rick Potter]

So here I was, out for a ride in my '56 Ford Victoria when I stopped at a busy 4 way traffic light. I looked around while waiting and saw about 20 cars at the intersection. Every one was a shade of grey, from white all the way to black, and most of the people were staring at my car.

Could it be old car lovers, or just maybe because mine is factory two tone Sunset Coral/White (NO...not Pink), with a matching interior. Vickie looked like a flower in a field of gravel.

When Vickie was new, it was standard practice for all the neighbors to come over and check it out. Now, they may not even notice you got a new car.

Times change. When Vickie was new, achieving 100K miles was an event to talk about, now a 100K car on Craig List is often listed as 'low mileage', and many owners give more thought to buying a grille than a car.

Two views of Vickie just before I cleaned months of dust off. Note the front of the roof with oil spots on it.


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The oil dripping offender that parks on the top of the lift. It only leaks PS fluid, oil, and trans fluid. After fixing leaks. Grand Daughter piloting.


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[michael langman]

A big part of the efficiency of the newer cars today cpmpared to the 60's has a lot to do with advances in piston ring design and the processes used to improve metal wear on the rings, along with synthetic oils which came later. The japanese led the way with producing long lasting rings. To bad they didn't do the same with body panels that rusted out in 7 years or so.
Also the body panels of new cars are a lighter gauge sheet metal then the 60's and this prohibits manufacturers from forming fancy quarter panels like we had in the past. You can't form sheet metal much without thinning it out which causes weakness and early rust through. So we have cars that all look alike to conserve energy.

[Mike Henderson]

You know how everyone marvels at how they have managed to keep all those old cars from the '50s running in Cuba? I saw one program where it was casually mentioned that often, they have replaced the powertrains with modern Toyota equipment, as the engines gave out a long time ago. They just keep the bodies up.


I went to Cuba and while there asked about the drive train on those old vehicles. They're mostly diesel - I don't know where they got them, probably Russian. There's essentially nothing original on those cars except the body.

One guy told me he still had the original engine and transmission at home. He said one day the Americans will come and want a classic car and he had the parts. One guy had a 46 Ford sedan just like one I owned (at least he had the body).

Mike

[Jim Koepke]

Fords were nicknamed Fix-Or-Repair-Daily.

Don't forget Found-On-Road-Diversified. There are a few more, but profanity is likely not allowed here.


I like unique cars. Trying to talk the wife into letting me buy this '50 Ford gasser --
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I always get those confused with a 1950 Studebaker:

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So here I was, out for a ride in my '56 Ford Victoria

Except for the tail fins the 1957 Chevy looks like a copy of Vickie.

Imitation has been going on since before the days of Roman chariots.

jtk

[John Stankus]

This ugly design may be part of the reason Toyota discontinued the Scion brand back in 2016. I actually considered buying the second generation of this model a number of years ago. The second generation at least looks better than this one.

I heard that the actual issue was that they were trying to appeal to the youth market, but a lot of older folks were buying them to get Toyota reliability in a less expensive package. Dropped the street cred with the youth market.

[Roger Feeley]

Some of the federal safety regulations also affect vehicle design. To me, today’s car designs are a lot better than many of the 1980s designs.

People complain that today’s vehicles are harder to work on, but they also require a lot less repairs than older vehicles. I worked at a place in the late 80s into the late 90s that was still running old vehicles for 12 days per year. The vehicles probably spent an hour or more in the shop for every hour on the road. A mechanic spent overnights servicing the dozen vehicles. Each vehicle spent at least a week in the shop during the off-season getting worked on. A mechanic checked the vehicles half way through each 16 hour day and had to add oil to all of them.

Brian,
there are always exceptions. Our first car when we got married was a 1966 Chevy Belaire with a straight six and aftermarket ac. We drove that thing for ten years without having to do very much to it (alternator). My FIL told us to keep good oil in it, buy the best battery it would hold and lube it regularly. When we gave the car to a nephew, it still ran like a top and the ac could still turn it into a meat locker. Yeah, I know, it was a death trap in all sorts of ways. It certainly spewed more than it’s share of pollutants. I wouldn’t drive it today but I can still appreciate the reliability.

Today, we have a 2014 Chrysler minivan. When the extended warranty runs out, we will get another. These thing are just too complicated not to have under warranty.

[Michael Cuthriell]

We have similar sized cars from 3 makers and I am not in love with any of them. But I cannot say anything bad about them either.

[dennis thompson]

When I started this thread I was only addressing the looks of todays cars. There is no question that the cars made today are far better than anything made back in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

[Warren Lake]

Yeah but they all look the same.

I like Toms answer. I run into people like him every time I go out, all im doing is going from point A to B.

[Prashun Patel]

It’s an expensive purchase for people but mass produced. That means it has to have broad appeal.

[Jack Frederick]

They all use the same wind tunnel.