leaking union

[Jim Allen]

Had to do some plumbing repair. Added a 3/4" galvanized union and it appears to be leaking. Any ideas why it would leak?

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[Peter Kelly]

The vibration from your jet pump is causing the leak in the union. Replace it with a Shark Bite slip fitting and it should stop.

[Jim Allen]

Thanks Peter, that's an interesting fitting never heard of it.

[Doug Dawson]

The vibration from your jet pump is causing the leak in the union. Replace it with a Shark Bite slip fitting and it should stop.
Shark Bite is good now? I wouldn’t be so sure about that.

[Aaron Rosenthal]

My guys say that Shark Bite fittings are approved for underground around here.
Still, did you put pipe Teflon on the union? If it's black threaded pipe, I use the paste.

[Peter Kelly]

Looks like you could actually even use a Sharkbite straight coupling fitting if you can move that short length of PEX. Any threaded fittings going into or nearby a jet pump should have both pipe dope and tape. The vibration from the pump will cause everything to start leaking over time otherwise. No threads and the ability to disassemble means Sharkbite fittings are ideal for this type of pump install.

[Tom M King]

Where is it leaking-at the union joint, or one of the threaded ends. I've use a lot of them, including for that use. If the union mating is leaking, back off a little, and retighten. If that doesn't fix it, replace it.

The PVC unions are one of the few things that are better now than they used to be. I have one on a jet pump, at an old house, that I connect, and disconnect fairly often, to take the pump away, and it's only hand tight without leaking.

With the brass fittings, why not use a brass union? The brass ones have good mating surfaces. I don't know that I have ever used a galvanized union.

[Jerry Bruette]

Is that the inlet or outlet of the pump? I'm assuming that's a check valve between the union and the pump.

[Peter Kelly]

Shark Bite is good now? I wouldn’t be so sure about that.How's that? I've got a similar Pentair Sta-Rite that I'd mostly installed with Sharkbite fittings, no leaks in 3 years. I wouldn't do an entire house with them but they certainly have their place.

[andy bessette]

...Any ideas why it would leak?

Made in China? Some of these have very rough mating surfaces.

[lowell holmes]

I go to Lowes and Home Depot and pick up the fitting I want. I would put a sealant in the joint if necessary.

[Bill Dufour]

Easy first try is to loosen the union nut and clean the threads. Then apply light oil and retighten. You did not put any sealer on the union threads did you? that is a no no. Does it have brass seals inside the union joint? If not replace it.
Bill D

[Ole Anderson]

A union does not rely on sealant in the union threads to keep from leaking, it is a metal to metal seal. The big nut is just there to draw the two seats together. Any imperfection in the seat will cause a leak.

[Brian Elfert]

I would just use your Sharkbite fittings as your union and get rid of everything on the right side. You probably aren't disconnecting the pump for years anyhow unless they fail regularly.

[Jim Allen]

A union does not rely on sealant in the union threads to keep from leaking, it is a metal to metal seal. The big nut is just there to draw the two seats together. Any imperfection in the seat will cause a leak.

So sealant on the mating surface?

[andy bessette]

so sealant on the mating surface?

...............no!

[Malcolm McLeod]

.... Any imperfection in the seat will cause a leak.

^this. Excessive misalignment between the union halves can also lead to leaks, tho' most quality unions have slightly hemispherical seats to allow some misalignment.

(I am assuming the leak is in the seats and not the (end) pipe threads.)

[Peter Kelly]

I'd probably not have the check valve going directly into the end of the of the pump, might be difficult to remove down the line when the pump has to be replaced. How I'd lay this out below.

https://i.imgur.com/jTWdmON.jpg

[Aaron Rosenthal]

Yup, I admit I remembered wrong.
Pipe dope was for my black iron gas fittings.
Sharkbite will make your problem vanish.

[Jim Allen]

I want to thank everyone for your comments and suggestions, everything will be considered for the final assembly. This is a temporary solution that will be redone next week when I receive my sediment filter that will be assembled in line.

[Bill Dufour]

No sealant on the seal either. It will just cause friction and reduce the force holding the seal faces together. I suppose you could use some silicone grease if this is not for drinking water.
Bill D

[George Bokros]

As Ole said NO sealant on the mating surfaces.

[Jim Allen]

Ok, by now you know I'm not even close to being a plumber, one of the pex connections is leaking slightly, I'm close to giving up.

[Bill Dufour]

My fathers solution was rubber hose. It has to be like radiator hose with internal support so it does not collapse under suction. cars often have a loose spring inserted inside normal hose. The spring is like 3/4" between loops. For your use I would use stainless or brass wire to make a spring.
Bill D

[Bill Dufour]

3/4 pex is only like 1/2 npt pipe. You should have used at least one inch pex if you are needing 3/4 npt. Even garden hose would flow better.
Bill D

[Alex Zeller]

Are you sure they are leaking and it's not just humidity condensing on the metal? If it's just for a week or so I wouldn't worry about it unless the leak is so bad the catch pan is filling too fast.

[lowell holmes]

I agree, but if the leak cannot be stopped, what else other than replace the union is the only alternative.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Buddy of mine is the water damage restoration and mold reduction business. Tells my he gets 5 or 6 jobs a years from leaky shark bite fixtures and insurance companies are starting to sue for the damages. * years ago, Based on his advice, I redid the plumbing in a small house and used PEX tubing for all the supply lines. I used the copper ring crimp fittings and haven't had one leak Plumbing so easy a Lawyer can do it. When my new house was built, we had one problem in the basement with one fitting the CPVC union leaked. The plumber installed a new CPVC union. I asked about a shark bite. He said he was being sued over a shark bite that leaked where three plumbers worked on a job. He said he does not use them but he gets repair calls because of them.

[Brian Elfert]

Interesting on the Sharkbites. I have four or five of them in accessible areas of my house. I can't solder to save my life so I used them to connect PEX to existing plumbing. I didn't want to spend $300 or more to have a plumber come in to solder four or five joints.

[Ole Anderson]

Sharkbites are great where soldering is difficult or in the wet, but I would never bury them in a wall. Just replaced a shower valve in my RV using the crimped rings on PEX, old connections were a hand tight plastic compression on PEX.

[Jim Becker]

I like SharkBites. One thing I learned early on is you need to cut the ends of the tube or pipe exactly square and clean and it MUST be fully inserted which occasionally requires some extra effort in a tight space. I've never had one leak if properly prepared and seated.

[Peter Kelly]

Are you sure they are leaking and it's not just humidity condensing on the metal? If it's just for a week or so I wouldn't worry about it unless the leak is so bad the catch pan is filling too fast.Normally I'd agree but those lengths of Romex leading to and from the pressure switch underneath the fitting would give me anxiety.

[Brian Elfert]

I like SharkBites. One thing I learned early on is you need to cut the ends of the tube or pipe exactly square and clean and it MUST be fully inserted which occasionally requires some extra effort in a tight space. I've never had one leak if properly prepared and seated.

Sharkbite makes an inexpensive tool to mark a pipe so that it gets inserted to the proper depth.

[Peter Kelly]

Ok, by now you know I'm not even close to being a plumber, one of the pex connections is leaking slightly, I'm close to giving up.The end of your PEX fitting has to be absolutely square, clean and free of any abrasions before inserting into the push to connect fittings you're using. Cut that section of PEX out, pull it from the fittings, remove the union and go directly into the end of that check valve. If this is all just temporary, it's easier just to cut through the PEX and re-insert a new piece when the time comes to re-work everything. As I'd mentioned, the vibration from your jet pump when it runs will cause the union to leak if it's that close to the inlet end of it. I've gone through this very install with that same Pentair Sta-Rite pump and a metal to metal union connection is not going to remain water-tight there.

[Bill Dufour]

This should not be leaking unless the pump is not running.
Bill D

[Jerry Bruette]

461315
Here's a picture of the union on the water pump in my house. It's been there since 1988. I've had it apart twice while replacing the tank. It's never leaked.

I say put the union back in and put a little anti-seize on the threads of the nut, and only on the threads of the nut, and tighten it up. If your piping is aligned properly you can tighten the union tight enough to prevent any leaks.

As Bill said above. That union shouldn't leak any water. If that union is leaking I don't know how the pump is moving any water. The pump will suck air before water and never move any water if you have a leak anywhere in the suction(inlet) piping.

[Adam Herman]

nothing wrong with shark bites when properly installed, as Jim said.

you should take all of that apart, and use the fewest fittings as possible. pex between. no reason i can see for the union. if you don't like the slip on fittings, the brass barb fittings and the rings plus the tool are much cheaper if you are doing more than a few connections.

[Ole Anderson]

And with a simple inexpensive plastic tool, Sharkbite fittings can be removed without damaging the pipe or fitting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twg4-cxSNOc&ab_channel=KeyFobRob

[Peter Kelly]

461315
Here's a picture of the union on the water pump in my house. It's been there since 1988. I've had it apart twice while replacing the tank. It's never leaked.

I say put the union back in and put a little anti-seize on the threads of the nut, and only on the threads of the nut, and tighten it up. If your piping is aligned properly you can tighten the union tight enough to prevent any leaks.

As Bill said above. That union shouldn't leak any water. If that union is leaking I don't know how the pump is moving any water. The pump will suck air before water and never move any water if you have a leak anywhere in the suction(inlet) piping.Might be time to replace that pump….

[Jerry Bruette]

Might be time to replace that pump….

And risk having that union leak? No way.

[Curt Harms]

nothing wrong with shark bites when properly installed, as Jim said.

you should take all of that apart, and use the fewest fittings as possible. pex between. no reason i can see for the union. if you don't like the slip on fittings, the brass barb fittings and the rings plus the tool are much cheaper if you are doing more than a few connections.

I have a couple shark bite fittings in places that were hard to get dry enough to solder. I found it true about making sure the pipe is fully inserted. The pipe goes in pretty easily at first but pushing harder made the pipe go in another 1/4" or so. Neither fitting has leaked so far.

[Jim Becker]

Curt, you are spot on. If I were going to do a whole house or a major project, I'd certainly go for an appropriate crimp system that matches the tubing, but SharkBite serves an important role in the marketplace...fast, simple, and actually pretty good when installed properly. Great for small projects and "problem solving".

[Alex Zeller]

Shark Bite style fittings have been around for some time. We use a style call "one touch" that allows for the hose to be easily removed. But they seal on the outside of the hose so if the hose is not smooth the o-ring may not seal. We normally use Teflon and Tygon tubing which usually has a very smooth surface. I have seen cheap PEX tubing with striations that could cause issues.

[lowell holmes]

You are asking for trouble. The whole system should replaced. It will be less expensive now , I would replace all of the rust.

[Jim Allen]

You are asking for trouble. The whole system should replaced. It will be less expensive now , I would replace all of the rust.

That's something I've considered. The pump was installed because we live on top of a hill that's about the same altitude as the water tank in our town, it raises our water pressure from 20 - 25 psi up to 50 psi. It's been in use for about 14 years, what is the typical life of a jet pump?

[Jim Becker]

According to the Google bits and bytes, the average life expectancy is 8-13 years for a two-wire and 10-15 years for a three-wire residential pump. So it's very reasonable to consider replacing it before it, um...insists you replace it on an emergency basis. :)

[Bill Dufour]

When I used my first and only shark bite I marked the pex with a pencil so i knew I had shoved it in far enough. I thought about a sharpie but worried about long term chemical affects on the pex. Probably over thinking it.
I test fitted and measured some scrap pex to get a good distance
Bill D

[Ole Anderson]

If the pump is fixed and the tank is fixed, then a union is often the only way to mate up two pipes as you have no flexibility to move things around to use an insert fitting. So this is a booster pump and not a well pump? If your union is leaking at the mating surface, I would simply try another union.

[Curt Harms]

If the pump is fixed and the tank is fixed, then a union is often the only way to mate up two pipes as you have no flexibility to move things around to use an insert fitting. So this is a booster pump and not a well pump? If your union is leaking at the mating surface, I would simply try another union.

That's the way it sounds to me so losing the pump would be inconvenient but not a "no water" condition. If that is not the case then a preventative replacement would be a good idea. If there needs to be a union there, I'd consider a non-steel substitute. I self installed a water boss water softener and used Ace hardware brass unions. No leaks no issues.

[Lee Schierer]

I'd probably not have the check valve going directly into the end of the of the pump, might be difficult to remove down the line when the pump has to be replaced. How I'd lay this out below.

https://i.imgur.com/jTWdmON.jpg

If the dark green/blue thing all the way to the right in the photo is the suction opening of the pump you are starving the pump. It is completely improper to reduce the pipe size on the inlet of a pump. You should never use a reducing bushing on the inlet to a pump. That pipe should all be the the same size as the pump inlet. Reducing it down with all those fitting is making your pump work much harder to do its job.

[Bill Dufour]

Not that the max pressure on a pump inlet is only 14.7 PSi of vacuum. So reinforced rubber hose is fine.
Bill D

[George Yetka]

Unions can be tricky. BMI with a brass seat will seal up well almost everytime. Copper unions almost never seal and with a galv/ BMI/CI without seat they are about 70/30.

I use liquid teflon on all non brass seat unions. I have had to open them years later and they clean up easy.

[Jim Allen]

I think I mentioned that I'm not a plumber. The problem with the union is solved, the problem with the PEX leak is solved. Now I have a leak between the union and the check valve, I've tightened it several times and it still leaking. Should I continue to tighten it or take it apart and start over? BTW, we're leaving for 2 weeks on Thursday, please give me my best option,

[andy bessette]

...I've tightened it several times and it still leaking. Should I continue to tighten it or take it apart and start over?...

You should be able to answer this one yourself.

[George Yetka]

We will not use sharkbite except for using for temporary caps. They are OK I guess, for home use but there are a couple things you should watch for. Never bury them in the wall, Never reuse them, and make sure the pipe end is square and clean with no burrs. These are things that I have seen that cause disaster.

My company will use Uponor pex with expansion fittings if we go the Pex route or Solder/propress for copper

We use Permabond Lh050 for threads. I personally have never had a leak with this product. It is pricey but not having to go back to a job is priceless.
The best fix for you would to be to run to a plumbing supply house and replace the union with one that has a seat and reinstall Ask them for a thread sealant recommendation(Permabond is cost prohibitive, leaklock /gripp will form a harder seal, Megalock/tu555 will form a moderate seal). I would also get a replacement nipple In case it comes out with the union It will be easier to put a new one in. The nipple between the check and the union im guessing is where your issue is doesnt look to be buried to deeply.At that size pipe it should be in about 1/2"

Generally speaking the check would be on the discharge side of the pump. I cant tell from this picture thats what we are looking at. If it is on the suction side the pump will have to work to pull open that spring check on top of it working to suck water through a reduced opening.

[Brian Elfert]

Doesn't Propress have the same risk of o-ring failure as a Sharkbite? They both depend on o-rings for the seal. All of the PEX I installed in my house is expansion fittings, but I used Sharkbites to connect to the copper as I can't solder to save my life. I really should replace them with soldered fittings, but I haven't had the desire to spend $300 to have a plumber do the work yet.

[Jim Allen]

I'm on vacation! On Tuesday I replaced the offending nipple (between the check valve and union), as of yesterday afternoon there was no water in the bowl, will report back in 2 weeks.

[Zach Macklin]

Why is anyone but a licensed plumber replying with answers to the ops question?? Some of you might want to flood the guys basement based on the answers given. Yikes.

[Jim Becker]

Why is anyone but a licensed plumber replying with answers to the ops question?? Some of you might want to flood the guys basement based on the answers given. Yikes.

Because this is a community that tries to help others...yes, sometimes suggestions are not the best, but that's also the risk asking any question to anyone, including some pros.

[Doug Dawson]

Because this is a community that tries to help others...yes, sometimes suggestions are not the best, but that's also the risk asking any question to anyone, including some pros.
Yes. Just because you’re a “pro” doesn’t mean you can’t duck and run like the “best” of them.

[Jerome Stanek]

Why is anyone but a licensed plumber replying with answers to the ops question?? Some of you might want to flood the guys basement based on the answers given. Yikes.

I may not be a licensed plumber but I have installed miles and miles of steam pipe with many unions.

[andy bessette]

Why is anyone but a licensed plumber replying with answers to the ops question?...

Answering the question does not require a license.

[Jim Allen]

After my vacation the leak was down to a drop or two a week, and it was coming from the union. Waited over a month for my plumber to come and install the spin down filter. Took him about 15 minutes, now all I have left to do is insulate all the pipes and fittings.

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