Ohishi vs Shapton Professional water stones

[Theo Hall]

Hello folks,

I'm looking to buy myself some new Waterstones (my King stones are now very worn down after many years of use).
I've narrowed it down to the Ohishi (Lie Nielsen sell them) or Shapton Professional stones. They both look quite good, and both look as if they will perform well as 'splash and go' stones.

I wonder whether anybody here has had experience with both of these stones, and what your opinions of them are? Which would you pick, and why?

I had also considered the Naniwa Pro stones, but feel rather put off by the amount of stories about them cracking.

Any advice would be much appreciated (note: I did search for any old threads on this, but there wasn't much written about the Ohishi's...)

Thank you

[Andrew Hughes]

I use Shapton pro stones and cannot imagine anything cutting Japanese chisels faster. I also them on my plane blades that are mostly A2. The plane blades get hollow ground I’ve its the best way.
Also have several different diamond plates to keep them flat and refresh the surface.
Good Luck on your journey

[Jim Koepke]

Did you find this post? > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?199726

My attempt at finding information on the particle sizes of their stones has so far been unsuccessful.

You might also want to read 'Joel's Blog' > https://toolsforworkingwood.com/store/blog/263

jtk

[Theo Hall]

I use Shapton pro stones and cannot imagine anything cutting Japanese chisels faster. I also them on my plane blades that are mostly A2. The plane blades get hollow ground I’ve its the best way.
Also have several different diamond plates to keep them flat and refresh the surface.
Good Luck on your journey

Thank you! They certainly sound very good, and most of my tools are either Japanese White Steel or A2.

I'd also be interested in hearing anyones experience with the Naniwa Professional (nee Chosera) series, and whether cracking has been an issue.

[Thomas Wilson]

I have the Ohishi stones, 3 stones, 5 grits. They are the only water stones I own. I also have Arkansas, carborundum, diamond, and Spyderco ceramic stones. No Shaptons. I have no complaints with the Ohishi but no comparison to Shaptons. I can compare diamond to water stones.

[Gary Focht]

I don’t have the Ohishi stones, but I do have two Imanishi stones (4000 and 8000) from Lee Valley that claim to just need a spritz. A spritz soaks in very quickly and they seem to work better with a bit of soaking.

[Mike Brady]

I have Ohishi stones and would say that they need more than a spritz of water to work, if they haven't been used for awhile. If you soak them too long the surface will get soft.

[Ed Mitchell]

I've used both, I prefer the Shapton Pro over the Ohishi, but both are fine for japanese steels.

If you have a lot of cryo A2 (LN tools, Hock, etc) then both will work, but slowly. IMHO the Sigma Select 2 are night-and-day superior for ultra-hard, modern steels like cryo A2, HSS, etc, and will do a great job on your japanese steels:
https://www.fine-tools.com/sigma.html

You'll hear people talk about which binder -- well, the Sigma Select 2 have no binder whatsoever. It's all cutting grit. That's part of the reason why they wipe steel off like crazy. I've not found a faster stone, but the downside is they do need to be flattened more often.

My 2nd place is the Naniwa Pro: https://www.fine-tools.com/naniwa-chosera.html
They're magnesium bonded, so don't soak them too long, but more importantly they are slower, and for me speed is the most important factor, the 2nd most important factor, and the 3rd most important factor. You can get a sweet edge on anything -- sandpaper, oilstones, whatever, so getting there fast is, imo, the smartest choice.

Happy Sharpening

[Theo Hall]

I've used both, I prefer the Shapton Pro over the Ohishi, but both are fine for japanese steels.

If you have a lot of cryo A2 (LN tools, Hock, etc) then both will work, but slowly. IMHO the Sigma Select 2 are night-and-day superior for ultra-hard, modern steels like cryo A2, HSS, etc, and will do a great job on your japanese steels:
https://www.fine-tools.com/sigma.html

You'll hear people talk about which binder -- well, the Sigma Select 2 have no binder whatsoever. It's all cutting grit. That's part of the reason why they wipe steel off like crazy. I've not found a faster stone, but the downside is they do need to be flattened more often.

My 2nd place is the Naniwa Pro: https://www.fine-tools.com/naniwa-chosera.html
They're magnesium bonded, so don't soak them too long, but more importantly they are slower, and for me speed is the most important factor, the 2nd most important factor, and the 3rd most important factor. You can get a sweet edge on anything -- sandpaper, oilstones, whatever, so getting there fast is, imo, the smartest choice.

Happy Sharpening


Thank you very much for your response!

Regarding the Shapton Pro & Ohishi stones you used, did you find that the 1k Shapton was faster than the 1k Ohishi? One of the criticisms I have heard of the Ohishi 1k is that it is very slow.

The reason I am very keen on the Shapton Pro & Ohishi stones is that they are non soak. The fact one can just spray them and start sharpening is extremely appealing to me. I find that if I am able to sharpen well & quickly, that I do not mind breaking off during working to quickly sharpen.
If i had to wait 15 minutes for the stones to soak, my attitude might be a bit different.

[Ed Mitchell]

Thank you very much for your response!

Regarding the Shapton Pro & Ohishi stones you used, did you find that the 1k Shapton was faster than the 1k Ohishi? One of the criticisms I have heard of the Ohishi 1k is that it is very slow.

The reason I am very keen on the Shapton Pro & Ohishi stones is that they are non soak. The fact one can just spray them and start sharpening is extremely appealing to me. I find that if I am able to sharpen well & quickly, that I do not mind breaking off during working to quickly sharpen.
If i had to wait 15 minutes for the stones to soak, my attitude might be a bit different.


Yes, the Ohishi are (IMHO) slightly slower than the Shaptons at pretty much every grit level. I have the same attitude towards you about sharpening -- if it's not fast, it becomes a chore, then I won't do it as often as I should, and the results suffer.
That's why I ended up with the SS2's I mentioned above -- no soaking, fastest cutting for the kinds of steels I have == best choice for me. YMMV

[Christopher Charles]

I have had 3 of the shapton pros for going on a decade and use as splash and go, usually after hollow grinding. 1k 5k and 13k. No complains though the 5k is a bit sticky as others have reported, but not a real issue. Best,
Chris

[Silas Knudsen]

I have the Shapton Pro 1000 and find it a really good stone no matter what steel I sharpen (white steel, O2, A2, PMV11 etc). It’s fast and I find the hardness to be perfect, firm so it doesn’t dish too fast but still easy to flatten. It’s a bit muddy but not too much. It’s also cheap, great value for money. Haven’t tried the Ohishi.

Also, remember that you can mix and match. In my experience it’s better to asses stones individually than to consider a full lineup to have the same characteristics. Stones in different grits from the same brand vary in speed, hardness and other properties. I’d decide on the approximate grits I wanted and look at what the best stones in those grits are.

[Mark e Kessler]

I have Ohishi and shapton, my primary is done on the Tormek, secondary established with King 1200 (because i have had it forever), then 6k Ohishi followed by 10k Ohishi. I find it only takes 3-5 swipes on the Ohishi‘s. Also don’t seem to need to flatten them that often.

I do not presoak the Ohishi’s and squirt a little water if i am doing a lot in a row, for touch ups i have never needed to add water. This is on 02 and other unknown steel. I don’t use the shaptons anymore, was for the primary because my brain didn’t like a hollow ground, with the shaptons i never found I needed to add water.

[Erich Weidner]

I have Ohishi stones and would say that they need more than a spritz of water to work, if they haven't been used for awhile. If you soak them too long the surface will get soft.

I'm curious about this. I have Ohishi stones, and I always disliked how quickly a spritz of water disappeared so I soak for like 5 minutes before use. I've not substantially used any other stones so I can't compare. When you say they go soft, can you elaborate? Would I get better results with just some spritzing? Does the stone break down faster with soaking?

[Mike Brady]

I'm curious about this. I have Ohishi stones, and I always disliked how quickly a spritz of water disappeared so I soak for like 5 minutes before use. I've not substantially used any other stones so I can't compare. When you say they go soft, can you elaborate? Would I get better results with just some spritzing? Does the stone break down faster with soaking?

Erich's comments are similar to my experience with the Ohishi stones. A spritz--or 10--- just disappears into my Ohishi stones. If I haven't used them for awhile they might require a few minutes of being dunked in water to even function. They can't be stored in water, on the other hand, or they get quite soft. Frankly, my Norton stones are better behaved in this regard, but I like the Ohishi 10,000 grit stone for a final polish. The Nortons stay wet after a soaking and don't get too soft. My opinion is that Nortons get overlooked because they are old news. They are (more) affordable and easy to find. Just don't get their flattening stone (the green one) as they are useless. I use old diamond stones to maintain the flatness of any waterstones.

[Erich Weidner]

...They can't be stored in water, on the other hand, or they get quite soft. Frankly, my Norton stones are better behaved in this regard, but I like the Ohishi 10,000 grit stone for a final polish. The Nortons stay wet after a soaking and don't get too soft.

Is this a permanent condition? Or just until they dry out? I've certainly forgotten about them soaking and come back hours later. Stones seemed to work fine. If they are softer from a soak does that just mean they don't cut as well? Or the stone breaks down faster?

[Michael Bulatowicz]

Is this a permanent condition? Or just until they dry out? I've certainly forgotten about them soaking and come back hours later. Stones seemed to work fine. If they are softer from a soak does that just mean they don't cut as well? Or the stone breaks down faster?

According to what I have read, stones with a magnesia binder release grit in part by having the binder dissolve in water. This would imply that prolonged soaking of the stone (whatever “prolonged” means in this case) would dissolve a large quantity of the binder, making the stone break down quickly in use even after it dries out. I don’t know whether or not the Oishi stones fall into this category, I don’t have any Oishi stones, and I don't have any experience with magnesia-binder stones in general, so this is all based on reading and speculation. The product description says not to soak them, however, so I would guess (but don’t actually know) that soaking will slowly break them down.

Other bonding media break down more by mechanical means (the process of sharpening tools, for example) and are fine with being stored in water. My water stones stay wet for weeks or even months on end. I usually add water at least once a day so that they’re always ready to go when I have a chance to squeeze some woodworking into my day—they do better when saturated with water and I don’t want to have to wait to sharpen my tools. Two to three years of this (depending on the stone) and they have never had a problem, but I specifically purchased stones that are fine with staying in water at all times.

[George Yetka]

I have had the naniwa pros (1000,3000,5000) for 4 years now. The 10000 I got about 2 years ago. So far so good. Very nice to work with but the only thing i have to compare them too is the dmt diasharps and the crazy sharp system.

I also only bring them out every 4 months and sharpen everything. I mean everything. Chisels, planes, kitchen knives(good and bad ones), carry knives, anything any one is willing to bring over. So dont let me guide you

[Elise Anna Boer]

The Hibiki lines of stones made by Naniwa are my favourite. These are made specifically for tools and are very hard. The Hibiki stones release abrasive at a slow rate so they take a long time to develop a hollow. I especially like the 8000 stone because it feels so nice to sharpen on.