SCM saw or Felder quivalent?

[Albert Lee]

has anyone gone through this exercise recently?

I am wanting to upgrade my panel saw, looking at either SCM Class (really tempted to go L'Invincibile...) or Felder K940 range.

I have both SCM and Felder gear in my shop. happy with both, although SCM is a tad more $ than Felder for equivalent machine.

very limited information on Google, hence question here.

[Jim Becker]

Both great products...price and...availability...is going to come into play as part of your decision.

[Mark e Kessler]

I have a k940 and am very happy with it and am impossible to please, lol. I had the k700 and the k940 is a better build in my opinion, can’t help you on the scm, I had one but it was in the 90’s so I am out of the loop on the Scm’s. If you have any specific questions from an actual user I will try to answer.

I post quite a bit of k940 saw action on Instagram, if you want to check it out look here…. https://www.instagram.com/kessler_woodworks/?hl=en


has anyone gone through this exercise recently?

I am wanting to upgrade my panel saw, looking at either SCM Class (really tempted to go L'Invincibile...) or Felder K940 range.

I have both SCM and Felder gear in my shop. happy with both, although SCM is a tad more $ than Felder for equivalent machine.

very limited information on Google, hence question here.

[Albert Lee]

Thanks Erik!

my local Felder rep emphasised Felder's Easy Glide feature and how Felder improved over the last 20 years,
I have a feeling that SCM probably has similar feature but just dont talk about it...

I know the saw will probably outlive me, but would like to get first hand info on the L'Invincibile if its available?

To be complete honest I am more inclined towards SCM, I know K940 will do me just fine as well... my shop is not a full time shop, its my side business.

[Albert Lee]

Both great products...price and...availability...is going to come into play as part of your decision.

Thanks Jim! I know! both are good brands!

[Albert Lee]

I have a k940 and am very happy with it and am impossible to please, lol. I had the k700 and the k940 is a better build in my opinion, can’t help you on the scm, I had one but it was in the 90’s so I am out of the loop on the Scm’s. If you have any specific questions from an actual user I will try to answer.

I post quite a bit of k940 saw action on Instagram, if you want to check it out look here…. https://www.instagram.com/kessler_woodworks/?hl=en

Thanks Mark, I will check it out your Instagram photos!

I almost bought the K940 with my AD951 a few years ago for some reason I dropped the K940 in the last minute. same saw is now 20% more $

I have seen K700 series in person. I know the build is not as heavy as the K900 series... still a great saw but you get what you pay.

[David Kumm]

L'invincible would be in the Format range, Class is close to 940, maybe a tad heavier but you would need to check that out. L'invincible and 940 are not comparable. Dave

[Peter Kelly]

Be prepared for some sticker shock on that L’Invincibile Albert. Might actually be more expensive than a similarly sized Martin.

[Dave Cav]

Sounds like a good reason to go to AWFS in Las Vegas later this month. I've made all my recent major machine purchases there.

[Mike King]

Sounds like a good reason to go to AWFS in Las Vegas later this month. I've made all my recent major machine purchases there.
Not possible from New Zealand at the moment...

[Jim Becker]

Sounds like a good reason to go to AWFS in Las Vegas later this month. I've made all my recent major machine purchases there.

Given the OP's location in the world, that would cost quite a bit for just travel...and it's a VERY long flight. ;)

[Albert Lee]

Given the OP's location in the world, that would cost quite a bit for just travel...and it's a VERY long flight. ;)

That's right.. Our government imposed a quarantine accommodation cost of $3500 USD if you decide to travel now... not sure if you exempted if you have taken the vaccine..

[Albert Lee]

Be prepared for some sticker shock on that L’Invincibile Albert. Might actually be more expensive than a similarly sized Martin.

The base model L'Invincibile si 3 is 26,000 Euro... base model T60C is 20,000 Euro. I really like Martin but they are not available here.

[Albert Lee]

L'invincible would be in the Format range, Class is close to 940, maybe a tad heavier but you would need to check that out. L'invincible and 940 are not comparable. Dave

Thanks Dave. my Felder rep wanted me to have a look at the Format4. I am not familiar with Format4 range/series, I might have a look.

The reason I really liked SCM is because my 30 yo wide belt sander broke down sometime ago and SCM still have parts for it. and they are well built.

[Albert Lee]

Erik, I think its 50/50 solid/sheets. definitely not a fancy toy as I do need the income from the woodworks.

I was looking at Class 400, but realised its a manual saw, my current saw (Griggio Unica 400) has electric up and down, going to manual saw seems going backwards. I wanted to upgrade but downsize, the Griggio is 3800mm long (145 inches). its too big, I never cut anything this big, I wanted to go down to 2200mm/86 inch. I bought the Griggio at ridiculously low price and it was fairly new. thought I can compromise on its size but no. its way too big for my shop which is 30 x 20. I constantly have to walk around it. plus it doesnt have the dado preparation.

So here I am. wanting to upgrade but down size. the K940 X motions looks good though. but I pay a tad more I get the L'Invincibile...

[Mark e Kessler]

Albert, the k940 with dro xcut fence 2 stops (be sure to get the heavier fence with dro or without) 9’ slide with xmotion probably some where in the in the 25-27k range before any discounts. Again a guess, my quote was 22k without xmotion and I won’t say what i paid but discounted pretty good because of some issues I had with the k700.

I think the Kappa 400 came in at around 30k stripped down, looks like the kappa 400 and the k940 share the same chassis (welded tube frame instead of all plate on the k700) same saw unit, cast top and of course the xroll - not sure what else would be different other than some options maybe that the k940 does not have

Also I have the auto score feature and I love it, no more forgetting to drop the scoring blade manually, if you always do sheet goods than it’s probably not worth it but if you are bouncing back and forth between solid and sheet then its something to consider.

Additionally the k700 is a fully capable saw for any hobbyist, i just got a �� so i am biased, but if someone was going to buy a fully loaded k700 - powerdrive, dro, overhead guard you wouldn’t be too far off from stripped down k940 where the overhead guard and power drive are included with the biggest entry to the k940 and above is having 3p available.




Erik, I think its 50/50 solid/sheets. definitely not a fancy toy as I do need the income from the woodworks.

I was looking at Class 400, but realised its a manual saw, my current saw (Griggio Unica 400) has electric up and down, going to manual saw seems going backwards. I wanted to upgrade but downsize, the Griggio is 3800mm long (145 inches). its too big, I never cut anything this big, I wanted to go down to 2200mm/86 inch. I bought the Griggio at ridiculously low price and it was fairly new. thought I can compromise on its size but no. its way too big for my shop which is 30 x 20. I constantly have to walk around it. plus it doesnt have the dado preparation.

So here I am. wanting to upgrade but down size. the K940 X motions looks good though. but I pay a tad more I get the L'Invincibile...

[Kevin Jenness]

" my current saw (Griggio Unica 400) has electric up and down, going to manual saw seems going backwards"

Going backward may be a good thing if you turn your thinking around. Is the electronic blade control dependent on a proprietary circuit board? I like dro's, but a lot of the electronic stuff seems to me a liability.

[Warren Lake]

old school here so no gizmos when I learned. Had three stroke sanders. First home made, second Progress, third Italian and what id consider pro. Second machine progress no power table raise was just brutal and that is a machine where you may want to drop a table far to put a cabinet in if you cant hang it off the table. Hated that manual raise just one of the reasons it got sold.

SCM invincible stuff or even lower it is so easy to raise stuff up and down because of the quality. General table saw not the same. The SCM is easy simple and smooth. How much time does a power raise save you at the end of a job, then if its a quality saw raise and lower is no issue as its simple and smooth, its almost a joy to feel that as it moves over a lesser saw like the Generals.

[Mark e Kessler]

More than likely not, back in the day that was an issue. I know for at least Felder the board is like $200 and was told it’s rare for it to fail prematurely, I believe them - i work in industrial controls validation and one of the things we do is design and test circuit boards for our in house designed machines -much much more complicated than the one in the saw and rarely have issues, and when we do it’s because the board manufacture substitutes “equivalent” components and GSC doesn’t catch it or fail to tell us.

While the hand crank is fine the power tilt/raise is nice to have when you need it, not for the powered up/down but for repeatability with the measurements especially when it comes to the height and non through cuts. The angle is great for the in between measurements say like 25.2, while you could probably get that with the hand crank with maybe a min of 1-2 test cuts - you will always nail it with the electronics and it really comes in handy if you have to repeat a cut exactly without guessing.

[Mark e Kessler]

Albert, if that is the case, I would actually look at a Kappa 400 with X-motion. K940S with X-motion option would be almost the same cost but Kappa is WAYYY more machine. I believe they can be ordered with a 2800mm sliding table though 3200 is more common. Kappa 400X's are probably my #1 selling saw to medium sized cabinet shops.

Erik


While I definitely agree that if someone wants the xmotion the logical step is to go to the Kappa 400, i was in that dilemma but I wanted all the options on the k940 minus the xmotion and going to the kappa put it too far out of range for me.

Am slightly curious as the the “WAYYY more machine comment”, i was lead to believe the differences were very small such as the ability to add different options not available on the k940 like the Parallelogram outrigger and the overhead control panel having more features than the overhead on the k940, but the build aside from cosmetics were very close at the time I ordered, same chassis, saw unit even the weights are very close. I know felder is always improving and driving some features down as new models come out so maybe something has changed in the past 8ish months.

[Warren Lake]

might take me 3 or 4 test cuts, I can afford the 30 seconds.

[Mark e Kessler]

might take me 3 or 4 test cuts, I can afford the 30 seconds.

Sorry for the confusion, I wasn’t really trying to say it’s a time savings - the benefit for me is convenience… After 30+ years of using non electronic cabinet saws and sliders in my business and at home I can say it is nice to have it when available, is it necessary absolutely not. If its cost it’s really not that much if you look at it over 10 or 20 years but for me thats not an issue - I got a money tree growing in the back yard LOL

[Albert Lee]

More than likely not, back in the day that was an issue. I know for at least Felder the board is like $200 and was told it’s rare for it to fail prematurely, I believe them - i work in industrial controls validation and one of the things we do is design and test circuit boards for our in house designed machines -much much more complicated than the one in the saw and rarely have issues, and when we do it’s because the board manufacture substitutes “equivalent” components and GSC doesn’t catch it or fail to tell us.

While the hand crank is fine the power tilt/raise is nice to have when you need it, not for the powered up/down but for repeatability with the measurements especially when it comes to the height and non through cuts. The angle is great for the in between measurements say like 25.2, while you could probably get that with the hand crank with maybe a min of 1-2 test cuts - you will always nail it with the electronics and it really comes in handy if you have to repeat a cut exactly without guessing.

Thanks Mark. I was thinking even if it did break down, the time saved using a digital saw would have outweighed the manual saw.

[Albert Lee]

Thanks Erik. I wonder if K400x will change its front panel design to current k550/590? If so when will that be? Don’t want to buy an older looking model that is all.

The Felder dealer is only 1-2 miles from where I live. They have a k550 on display. Is the k400 of similar build?

I feel SCM puts more effort in CNC/larger machinery and less on traditional joinery.

[Mark e Kessler]

good point, I haven’t seen one in person. I went to the website and so happens the kappa picture is right next to the 940 and it looks huge! On closer inspection you can tell Marketing did something with the scale of the Kappa pic but sure it is still bigger but interesting that the weights are still the same.

So I am really just curious at this point, the three speed saw unit (#133)is the same in the kappa400 and the k940, as far as I know the frames are the same, and the weights are very close (2046 vs 1980) if i was moving up a class of saw I would expect it to be heavier so i must be missing something, maybe that little bit of weight is in the frame and makes a big difference, i know when I got the k940 I was surprised how much more of a build it was over the k700.

[Michael Rector]

good point, I haven’t seen one in person. I went to the website and so happens the kappa picture is right next to the 940 and it looks huge! On closer inspection you can tell Marketing did something with the scale of the Kappa pic but sure it is still bigger but interesting that the weights are still the same.

So I am really just curious at this point, the three speed saw unit (#133)is the same in the kappa400 and the k940, as far as I know the frames are the same, and the weights are very close (2046 vs 1980) if i was moving up a class of saw I would expect it to be heavier so i must be missing something, maybe that little bit of weight is in the frame and makes a big difference, i know when I got the k940 I was surprised how much more of a build it was over the k700.


For what’s it’s worth from my brief time visiting some owners and having toured a sales office I Iooked at the K700 (one I could easily afford) the K940 (the one I could stretch to) and the Kappa 400 (can’t afford but curious about). And I came away with sort of these impressions…

The K700 is the Corolla in the line up, reliable and gets you from place to place with a good fit and finish but nothing amazing. The K940 was more like a Camry, everything you need (power everything), bigger engine, a lifetime of happiness. The Kappa was the Lexus, better fit and finish, just more of everything. And while there are parts shared between Toyota and Lexus, you just don’t ever confuse one for the other.

I went with the Corolla :) and a Camry isn’t anything to sneeze at either. But the Lexus is just a Lexus.

[Mark e Kessler]

For what’s it’s worth from my brief time visiting some owners and having toured a sales office I Iooked at the K700 (one I could easily afford) the K940 (the one I could stretch to) and the Kappa 400 (can’t afford but curious about). And I came away with sort of these impressions…

The K700 is the Corolla in the line up, reliable and gets you from place to place with a good fit and finish but nothing amazing. The K940 was more like a Camry, everything you need (power everything), bigger engine, a lifetime of happiness. The Kappa was the Lexus, better fit and finish, just more of everything. And while there are parts shared between Toyota and Lexus, you just don’t ever confuse one for the other.

I went with the Corolla :) and a Camry isn’t anything to sneeze at either. But the Lexus is just a Lexus.

Thats a really good analogy, thats the one thing I should have done was look at them in person. If I needed more saw than the k940 i would be looking Altendorf or Martin - ln any case they all cut wood!

[Michael Rector]

Albert, do you mean the overhead control panel? If so, I can’t see them changing it on a K400X. That machine only needs to store blade profiles and actuate the rip fence, so a basic controller is all that is needed. The E-motion saws like the K550 and K590 usually come bundled with Ardis software (very rarely used here in the US, in my experience), so they need to have the iPad-style control panel. If I understood your question right.

Regarding size, the K550 is a “little bit” bigger than the K400X but closer to the in size to it than the K400X than the K940S is to it. Difficult to convey unless you see them side by side.



Mark, I actually never have looked up the weight on any of our saws. It just doesn’t seem to be a factor that any shop cares about. “Big enough that my guys won’t break it” is their criteria. I can tell you that that the frame size is on a K400X is SUBSTANTIALLY bigger than a 900-series. Again, when you see them side by side, it’s very obvious.



Michael, just to clarify: Fit and finish is going to be the same on any Felder machine, regardless of which level or price point. They all come off the same production line, same robots doing the welding, same powder coating, etc. Mentioning this because I have heard sales reps do that same analogy you mentioned and that’s actually bad practice, IMO, since it can paint the picture that you need to spend more to perhaps get what you need, which is often not the case. The analogy I prefer is as follows:

Think of your sliding panel saw like a work truck. Since you mentioned Toyota. The Tacoma is just as well built as the Tundra but they aren’t the same truck. Both will run forever but what do you plan to do with his truck? Just use it for runs to Home Depot for bagged mulch and hauling stuff to the junkyard? Then, the Tacoma wil serve you fine and maybe you could invest the price difference of the Tundra elsewhere, benefit from better fuel economy, etc? Or, are you planning to tow a trailer regularly? Sure, the Tacoma has a trailer hitch and “could” do that but you’ll kill that Tacoma a lot sooner than a Tundra, so maybe the Tundra is worth the extra initial investment? Just my 2-cents,

Erik

Fit and finish was probably the wrong analogy. The fit and finish on all the felders I looked at was great but more like a Corolla uses more plastic parts than say a Camry or Lexus I noticed similarities with the Felder lines. Or just like you can’t order ventilated seats on a Corolla but a Lexus comes with them standard.

For instance the flip stops on a K3/K500 are cast and show the cast seams where the K7/9 looked like they were machined.

The table top on the K3/k500 vs the k7/9 vs the kappa all showed subtle machining improvements.

So Corolla vs Camry vs Lexus is really more of a fewer plastic parts kind of thing combined with more standard features as you move up through the lines.

[Mark e Kessler]

Thanks Erik got it, Didn’t even cross my mind that a shop would care about the weight. It was just an observation and is still interesting that the weights are practically the same and it dwarfs the 900 and the frame is subsequently bigger, i would expect it to be for the up charge…

[Albert Lee]

Just an update.

Assuming both SCM and Felder are about the same for the money you pay.

I have decided to go with SCM Class si X. reason for choosing this saw: it can do +/- 46 deg. Felder's Kappa K590 can do this as well but I cant afford it.

SCM's si X range can all do +/- 46 deg. ranging from light class Minimax, Nova, Class, and then the L'Invincibile. I cant afford the L'Invincibile, its $60k+ saw. I paid 33k+ tax for my Class si X (options added)

Delivery date: Aug 2022. yes. Aug 2022.
460623

[Mike King]

Is that 33k NZD?

[Albert Lee]

Is that 33k NZD?

no... 48k NZD, 33k USD.

[Jim Becker]

Congrats, Albert! No matter what you chose from all these fine machines, it would be a great upgrade. But wow...Holy Lead Time, Batman! :)

[Mark e Kessler]

Nice choice, I would have original gone with SCM because I was more familiar their equipment but I went down the Felder rabbet hole…

btw, you can do +46 on the k940 it’s just a matter of moving the hard - stop probably same on the k700



Just an update.

Assuming both SCM and Felder are about the same for the money you pay.

I have decided to go with SCM Class si X. reason for choosing this saw: it can do +/- 46 deg. Felder's Kappa K590 can do this as well but I cant afford it.

SCM's si X range can all do +/- 46 deg. ranging from light class Minimax, Nova, Class, and then the L'Invincibile. I cant afford the L'Invincibile, its $60k+ saw. I paid 33k+ tax for my Class si X (options added)

Delivery date: Aug 2022. yes. Aug 2022.
460623

[Albert Lee]

Nice choice, I would have original gone with SCM because I was more familiar their equipment but I went down the Felder rabbet hole…

btw, you can do +46 on the k940 it’s just a matter of moving the hard - stop probably same on the k700

Thanks Mark!

what I was referring to is that the saw blade can do +46 to -46 deg. So it can tilt 92 deg not just normal 45 deg

I think this is a very useful feature I am yet to put it into a product that requires it…

SCM told me I actually got a few days to decide if I want an L’Invincibile (can only do 45 deg) or the Class si X (can do 92deg) they are more or less the same price for the spec I want.

[Mark e Kessler]

Thanks Mark!

what I was referring to is that the saw blade can do +46 to -46 deg. So it can tilt 92 deg not just normal 45 deg

I think this is a very useful feature I am yet to put it into a product that requires it…

SCM told me I actually got a few days to decide if I want an L’Invincibile (can only do 45 deg) or the Class si X (can do 92deg) they are more or less the same price for the spec I want.


yup, I just wanted to clarify that it is possible to go beyond the 45. Cool having the ability to left tilt in addition to the right. Curious what the lead time is.

[Albert Lee]

yup, I just wanted to clarify that it is possible to go beyond the 45. Cool having the ability to left tilt in addition to the right. Curious what the lead time is.

Currently the lead time is 12 months for us…

I got a few days to confirm if I want to go with +/-46 deg Class machine or the entry level L’Invincibile. They work out about the same price! I can’t think of anything substantial - maybe I used the traditional for too long and it’s limiting my creativity.

[Albert Lee]

Well my Felder agent must have heard the news, they came to me and gave me a ridiculous price for a Kappa 590. automated and programmed tilt for the saw blade, but manual rip, 30k USD. should I take it?

[Mark e Kessler]

Well that sounds like a good price. As far as the automated rip, I honestly found no value in having it being a low volume user but now I kinda wished I went for it for it, over the long term the cost isn’t that high (for me 25 yrs +) and adds a lot of utility. Now eventually the electronics will fail (like all electronics, yes they do have a life span…) but that could be 10,20yrs or never in your ownership and not sure what the cost is there to replace. I didn’t even realize that the 590 could be configured without the automated rip, I always feel a rep should try to upsell equipment - quotes are free, changing your mind after the fact is not as cheap…



Well my Felder agent must have heard the news, they came to me and gave me a ridiculous price for a Kappa 590. automated and programmed tilt for the saw blade, but manual rip, 30k USD. should I take it?

[Jim Becker]

Well my Felder agent must have heard the news, they came to me and gave me a ridiculous price for a Kappa 590. automated and programmed tilt for the saw blade, but manual rip, 30k USD. should I take it?
Will you be happy with the machine at that price and is the availability any better or the same? A "saw in hand" counts, too.

[Albert Lee]

Will you be happy with the machine at that price and is the availability any better or the same? A "saw in hand" counts, too.

I visited Felder yesterday to have a proper look. the Kappa 590 has very nice software, easy to use.
You know the support you will be getting will be great (I have a Felder AD951)

However, there are a few minor details that I am not particularly happy about, I wont delve into great detail. I will use the following photos as an example, this is my Griggio Unica 350/400 mitre fence extension, the extension is a thick aluminium extrusion that measures 60 x 45mm (2 3/8 x 1 3/4)). I believe this is a basic model from Griggio in 2013, probably costed $15k USD back then.

You would think the mitre fence extension on the top of the line Felder panel saw that cost $60k NZD should have something substantial. but no. it was just a 25mm x 25mm (or 1 x 1, approximately) boxed section - sorry I didnt take a photo, it is very similar to what I had on my Robland NX410.

460794460795460796460797

If Felder had the Griggio style mitre fence extension Felder will rave about it, there will be a lot of photos online with well written description that makes you want to buy it, possibly even a Youtube clip from Felder dedicated to this mitre fence, and when you visit Felder you are told this is an option you have to fork out more $$$ I am not surprised Griggio has such a nice mitre fence, I think they use to make Martin's entry level saw before they went under.

obviously this is just one little detail and probably dont matter to a lot of woodworker, you probably dont need a large extension like this, Felder probably put more resource into its software/technology....etc anyhow no one is going to buy/not buy a panel saw because of this.

In comparison to my recent purchase of a SCM TI145 EP spindle moulder, the SCM surprised me with its quality of build, engineering style and attention to detail, unfortunately I cant say the same for its local service, the user manual feels like the guy went on lunch and skipped a few lines, and the amount of information you can find online - there is nothing apart from SCM brochure and some very old video clips. SCM needs to do a lot of work in this regard.

The Kappa 590 certainly is a great saw, has a lot of bells and whistles, but probably not something I am looking for…

[Mark e Kessler]

Hi Albert,
pretty sure the dro fence on k940 is the same on the 590, (did it look like the below pic?) not sure if there is really anything to be concerned with the tube on the Felder fence is thick steel and rides on ball bearings, very smooth and the extrusion webbing is very thick. the Felder Fence is robust in my opinion with small flaw, the dro stops have these thin plastic strips to aid in the smooth movement on the extrusion, they are just stuck on and came loose and bunched up so I had to remove them - Felder was supposed to send me new ones but never did…

460805



I visited Felder yesterday to have a proper look. the Kappa 590 has very nice software, easy to use.
You know the support you will be getting will be great (I have a Felder AD951)

However, there are a few minor details that I am not particularly happy about, I wont delve into great detail. I will use the following photos as an example, this is my Griggio Unica 350/400 mitre fence extension, the extension is a thick aluminium extrusion that measures 60 x 45mm (2 3/8 x 1 3/4)). I believe this is a basic model from Griggio in 2013, probably costed $15k USD back then.

You would think the mitre fence extension on the top of the line Felder panel saw that cost $60k NZD should have something substantial. but no. it was just a 25mm x 25mm (or 1 x 1, approximately) boxed section - sorry I didnt take a photo, it is very similar to what I had on my Robland NX410.

460794460795460796460797

If Felder had the Griggio style mitre fence extension Felder will rave about it, there will be a lot of photos online with well written description that makes you want to buy it, possibly even a Youtube clip from Felder dedicated to this mitre fence, and when you visit Felder you are told this is an option you have to fork out more $$$ I am not surprised Griggio has such a nice mitre fence, I think they use to make Martin's entry level saw before they went under.

obviously this is just one little detail and probably dont matter to a lot of woodworker, you probably dont need a large extension like this, Felder probably put more resource into its software/technology....etc anyhow no one is going to buy/not buy a panel saw because of this.

In comparison to my recent purchase of a SCM TI145 EP spindle moulder, the SCM surprised me in its quality, engineering and attention to detail, unfortunately I cant say the same for its local service, the manual and the amount of information you can find online - there is nothing apart from SCM brochure. SCM needs to do a lot of work in this regard.

The Kappa 590 certainly is a great saw, or maybe I am just biased.

[Albert Lee]

Hi Albert,
pretty sure the dro fence on k940 is the same on the 590, (did it look like the below pic?) not sure if there is really anything to be concerned with the tube on the Felder fence is thick steel and rides on ball bearings, very smooth and the extrusion webbing is very thick. the Felder Fence is robust in my opinion with small flaw, the dro stops have these thin plastic strips to aid in the smooth movement on the extrusion, they are just stuck on and came loose and bunched up so I had to remove them - Felder was supposed to send me new ones but never did…

460805

Hi Mark, for some reason I cant view the pics... I am pretty sure Felder machine are just fine, its just me being very cautious.

one interesting thing about the Kappa 590, the motor look more like a book. yes. a book, rather than a motor! sales said its a synchronous motor that puts less strain on the saw assembly which I agree.

Havnt made up my mind about what saw to get, Italian cars are notoriously bad with their electronics, I hope their woodworking equipment does not share the same heritage.

[Jim Becker]

Albert, viewing photos, sending/receiving PMs and using the classifieds is a benefit of being a Contributor. Please click on the "Donate" button up at the top...it's a whole $6 US for a one year Contributor status and helps keep the lights on. :)

Jim
Forum Moderator

[Albert Lee]

Albert, viewing photos, sending/receiving PMs and using the classifieds is a benefit of being a Contributor. Please click on the "Donate" button up at the top...it's a whole $6 US for a one year Contributor status and helps keep the lights on. :)

Jim
Forum Moderator

Thanks Jim! no wonder I cant view the photos. will be doing this shortly.

By the way I've ordered a SCM L'Invincibile si X.

[Mark e Kessler]

Albert, Good choice - betting it was gut feel to go with the SCM which is the way I would lean based on your comments, always disappointing when a vendor comes back with an “amazing” deal that doesn’t match up with your expectations or what you asked for in the first place and just throw you an oddball that is sitting around (or whatever) so they don’t lose a sale….

[Albert Lee]

Albert, Good choice - betting it was gut feel to go with the SCM which is the way I would lean based on your comments, always disappointing when a vendor comes back with an “amazing” deal that doesn’t match up with your expectations or what you asked for in the first place and just throw you an oddball that is sitting around (or whatever) so they don’t lose a sale….

Thanks Mark... we as customer will never know the truth...

My saw purchase went up from 20k to 30k and now I am spending close to 45k USD... I just dont want to repeat that mistake again - you buy something thats expensive and well made, soon after you got it you wish you have bought something even better because its worth it.

[Brian Holcombe]

That’s the natural state of things, I think. Right after I purchase my jointer/planer a Hofmann 24” jointer/planer came up for a few thousand more dollars (used). My machine is fine, but..... my only solace is that I really don’t have the shop space for the bigger machine.

[Jim Becker]

That’s the natural state of things, I think. Right after I purchase my jointer/planer a Hofmann 24” jointer/planer came up for a few thousand more dollars (used). My machine is fine, but..... my only solace is that I really don’t have the shop space for the bigger machine.

I guess you can't get permission from the powers that be to use the living room as your shop extension? :) :D

[Erik Loza]

...one interesting thing about the Kappa 590, the motor look more like a book. yes. a book, rather than a motor! sales said its a synchronous motor that puts less strain on the saw assembly which I agree....

So, the K590 is unique in our lineup in that it uses a DC motor, like you'd see on a CNC router, rather than the typical induction motor. I've never heard any argument about it putting "less strain on the saw unit" (sounds made-up to me... I mean, you can engineer whatever is needed. It's not like this machine is light). The real benefit is the stepless RPM control and, of course, smaller housing size.

Here is the thing with a K590E: It's a Formula-1 car. Software-heavy, needs a large blade to run right, and requires regular maintenance to keep the 90-degree set point in calibration (not a Felder-thing, a "two-way tilt" thing). Saws like it are really for shops who are doing huge architectural timbers, want to make compound cuts without flipping the workpiece, etc. If someone is doing mostly sheet goods and only the occasional solid stock, there are actually better choices that are simpler to own and maintain. Just my 2-cents.

Erik

[Albert Lee]

I guess you can't get permission from the powers that be to use the living room as your shop extension? :) :D

I did once use the living room as storage, didnt have to obtain any permission.... the beauty of being a bachelor! :)

[Albert Lee]

So, the K590 is unique in our lineup in that it uses a DC motor, like you'd see on a CNC router, rather than the typical induction motor. I've never heard any argument about it putting "less strain on the saw unit" (sounds made-up to me... I mean, you can engineer whatever is needed. It's not like this machine is light). The real benefit is the stepless RPM control and, of course, smaller housing size.

Here is the thing with a K590E: It's a Formula-1 car. Software-heavy, needs a large blade to run right, and requires regular maintenance to keep the 90-degree set point in calibration (not a Felder-thing, a "two-way tilt" thing). Saws like it are really for shops who are doing huge architectural timbers, want to make compound cuts without flipping the workpiece, etc. If someone is doing mostly sheet goods and only the occasional solid stock, there are actually better choices that are simpler to own and maintain. Just my 2-cents.

Erik

Thanks Erik! That confirms my line of thinking as well. the software on the K590 and the upgrade is beyond brilliant, the only limitation is probably the user's creativity.

The motor on the K590 is very interesting, it might start a trend?

[Albert Lee]

That’s the natural state of things, I think. Right after I purchase my jointer/planer a Hofmann 24” jointer/planer came up for a few thousand more dollars (used). My machine is fine, but..... my only solace is that I really don’t have the shop space for the bigger machine.

Hofmann 24 JP combo…. sounds like stuff that only exist in fairyland… would love to buy one even used, but no support here, If service is required you need to pay the technician’s education to service it…

[Brian Holcombe]

It was just before the electronics overload we see currently, so I think service would be manageable. Heck, I’ve broken down every machine in the shop so far to nuts and bolts, what’s one more.

[Jim Becker]

I did once use the living room as storage, didnt have to obtain any permission.... the beauty of being a bachelor! :)

You have to have an understanding of Brian's current shop arrangement...big tools in the tiny almost-one-car garage and the rest plus his bench, etc., in a beautiful basement space. I routinely joke with him about taking over more areas of the house, but that likely would result in him having to sleep on top of the J/P or his bench 'cause he's NOT a bachelor. :D :D. But seriously, he turns out AMAZING work.

[Albert Lee]

You have to have an understanding of Brian's current shop arrangement...big tools in the tiny almost-one-car garage and the rest plus his bench, etc., in a beautiful basement space. I routinely joke with him about taking over more areas of the house, but that likely would result in him having to sleep on top of the J/P or his bench 'cause he's NOT a bachelor. :D :D. But seriously, he turns out AMAZING work.

wow my shop used to be an one car garage... I cant imagine working in one now....

I hope one day I can do some real wood work or some amazing work, so far its all for commercial gain to keep the $ flowing in and .. buying more tools in the name of being more efficient... (yeah right)

[Peter Kelly]

Hofmann 24 JP combo…. sounds like stuff that only exist in fairyland… would love to buy one even used, but no support here, If service is required you need to pay the technician’s education to service it…Hoffman's sole US dealer's warehouse is about 45 minutes from me in Hudson NY, their stuff is pretty drool-worthy in person but their prices are just eye-wateringly high.

I've heard good things about these guys too: https://www.machinesabois.biz

[Ned Otter]

Not sure if it makes any difference to you, but perhaps you should check lead time for each manufacturer. And if you need anything customized, it will likely take even longer than the current lengthy lead time. Ask me how I know :)

[Albert Lee]

Hoffman's sole US dealer's warehouse is about 45 minutes from me in Hudson NY, their stuff is pretty drool-worthy in person but their prices are just eye-wateringly high.

I've heard good things about these guys too: https://www.machinesabois.biz

the initial cost of the machine is high but when you spread that over the life of the machine then its quite ok - I cant remember how many times I bought machines with this justification lol

very nice machines there, love that chunkiness.

[Albert Lee]

Not sure if it makes any difference to you, but perhaps you should check lead time for each manufacturer. And if you need anything customized, it will likely take even longer than the current lengthy lead time. Ask me how I know :)

thanks for the reminder Ned! you must have been through some elongated waiting time! I too taken delivery of a spindle moulder recently, took them 10 months to deliver, I am not expecting the saw to be any sooner... in fact the longer the lead time the better as I need to come up with the $ and also give me time to think and plan my workshop, one rarely have time for these things.

[Erik Loza]

..The motor on the K590 is very interesting, it might start a trend?

So, these DC motors have actually been in service in standard/classical machinery for some time. I think SCM was actually the first, since I can recall seeing it (technically, an "electrospindle") on their top end shaper back in 2012-ish. We use it on our high-end shaper and obviously, the K590. I imagine there is a cost premium for this, since you need more electronics to run an electro-spindle than a regular induction motor, but they are not really new to the industry. I think you will start seeing more and more DC motors in ww'ing applications as time goes on. For example, that new Harvey dust collector or the new Comatic power feeders, which are really nice.

Erik

[Brian Holcombe]

the initial cost of the machine is high but when you spread that over the life of the machine then its quite ok - I cant remember how many times I bought machines with this justification lol

very nice machines there, love that chunkiness.

This is it, buy once cry once is typically cheaper over a longer period of time.

[Albert Lee]

So, these DC motors have actually been in service in standard/classical machinery for some time. I think SCM was actually the first, since I can recall seeing it (technically, an "electrospindle") on their top end shaper back in 2012-ish. We use it on our high-end shaper and obviously, the K590. I imagine there is a cost premium for this, since you need more electronics to run an electro-spindle than a regular induction motor, but they are not really new to the industry. I think you will start seeing more and more DC motors in ww'ing applications as time goes on. For example, that new Harvey dust collector or the new Comatic power feeders, which are really nice.

Erik

Thanks Erik for the clarification, this is the underside of my SCM spindle moulder, TI145EP, I ordered it with Electro-spindle, but it looks more like a standard induction motor...
461516


I have the Comatic feeder on my spindle moulder. they are very nice to use.
461514

[Erik Loza]

Thanks Erik for the clarification, this is the underside of my SCM spindle moulder, TI145EP, I ordered it with Electro-spindle, but it looks more like a standard induction motor...

Yes, that’s the standard motor. Unless things have changed, the electrospindle was only offered on the Invincible shaper with 2-way tilt.

Erik