Powermatic Build Quality

[Adam Weinstein]

Finally decided to pull the trigger to upgrade my jointer and planer and Powermatic got the vote. Now, the wait for equipment from overseas. I got a mobile base for the jointer and it shipped from Tennessee the next day. The first one arrived with the box intact but it had significant paint loss and a dent. Going through the dealer for remedy got a response from Powermatic they would ship a replacement after I provided proof the defective one was destroyed. So, I cut it up and sent the dealer a photo ... then UPS showed up 3 hours later with the replacement. Same issues with 2nd one as first.

It's obvious to me the prep (degreasing and priming) for painting was lacking and the packing was inadequate. This could become a do loop, so I am getting a quote to have it powder coated. The bigger issue for me is the response from Powermatic lacked contrition and put additional burden on me to the point I am thinking about canceling the whole thing. Hoping my experience is the exception rather than the rule and am interested if others have had positive or negative experience with Powermatic. Thanks in advance for your time.

[Robert Hayward]

I have four large Powermatic machines and have only one real complaint. On my PM1500 the switch that kills the motor when you step on the foot brake was sketchy from the beginning. I could fiddle with it and it would work for a few months then hang up again. About three years in the switch failed completely. Probably should have called as soon as it first happened but did call when it completely failed. The person I spoke with said those switches are solid and only hang up from being dirty with sawdust and so on. Told me to step on the brake and let the pedal snap back up a few times and it will be okay. I tried to explain about a three horse dust collector ten feet away and the switch had been problematic from delivery. He was not going to listen to me. Finally said thank you and hung up. Took the switch off and found a part number on it. Somewhere around $3.50 from China and $7 and change from Amazon delivered next day with Prime.

If China is selling the part retail for $3.50 how much is Powermatic paying for them? To this day I still think about Powermatic arguing with me about a part that cheap.

[Frank Pratt]

Powermatic has had some serious problems with delivering consistent customer service. My only interaction with them was when shopping for a new table saw & the call to them was met with rudeness, indifference, and a lack of product knowledge. I just assumed someone was having a bad day, but then heard of many others on forums with similar complaints. They also had a goofy system for the mobile base that used one of the blade cranks to raise & lower it that also had may complaints.

So SawStop got the sale & I've been wary of PM since then.

[Charles Coolidge]

Well it's not really Powermatic lets be honest it's CHINA so quality is relative to all the other CHINA/Taiwan machines built over there. I'm assembling my new Powermatic PM1500 as I type this and assembled my new Powermatic 15HH planer recently.

15HH Planer - The so called mobile base is an absolute joke and was not working as adjusted. No matter I ripped the entire nonsense off the machine and set her on a Grizzly 4 swivel Bear Crawl mobile base which works great! Big fan of those mobile bases I have 3 now. Fit, finish, setup were flawless I could not find anything to fine tune even with my high accuracy Mitutoyo measuring tools. There was a shipping rub in front/base paint. The same shipping rub both of the floor display models have at my local woodworking supply. These DO NOT come with Byrd Shelix cutterheads anymore, it's an Asian knock off of the same style. Machining on the cutterhead is different and they don't have BT marked (Byrd Tooling) inserts. Compared to other CHINA/Taiwan machines it's a cut above the competition and I'm happy with the purchase.

PM1500 Bandsaw - Still assembling it and found my second issue today. Very minor but exemplifies the CHINA/Taiwan attitude across all brands, with maybe the exception of SawStop (more on that below). They knowingly ship defects and let customers take the hit they don't care. First issue is a 3/4 inch long gouge through the paint to bare metal below the serial number label on the column. Not shipping damage it got whacked in the factory before crating. No attempt to repair it just ship it. For $3,000 that just takes the shine off the customer experience. The 2nd issue is stupidity. The end caps for the fence rail are too small, they just fall out on their own under gravity which they obviously know but they ship it anyway. I can fix with a dab of silicone and tape them on until it dries but I don't like the stupidity of annoying the customer with stupid stuff like that not for the price premium they charge vs other brands.

SawStop - I spent north of 6k on SawStop recently, a 5hp ICS with all the trimmings plus some router stuff. With one exception (design flaw in the overarm dust collector) it's flawless. Fit, finish, setup, instructions wow the best written instructions ever they have gone the extra mile and then some to engineer a positive customer experience. If they expand into other machines, jointers, planers, etc. watch out they will clobber the competition.

[Charles Coolidge]

Powermatic has had some serious problems with delivering consistent customer service. My only interaction with them was when shopping for a new table saw & the call to them was met with rudeness, indifference, and a lack of product knowledge. I just assumed someone was having a bad day, but then heard of many others on forums with similar complaints. They also had a goofy system for the mobile base that used one of the blade cranks to raise & lower it that also had may complaints.

So SawStop got the sale & I've been wary of PM since then.

We purchased a PM2000 for my brother back when they first came out so many years ago, the quality was shockingly poor. They obviously were cashing in on the iconic name at inflated prices but delivering the typical CHINA/Taiwan quality. There are some real contenders today. I currently own a new SawStop 5hp ICS and l love it. Wow it's quiet. Fit and finish flawless. The mobile base is genius. One design flaw on their big overam dust collector but other than that nothing to even nitpick about. Prior to this I owned the Grizzly 12 inch G0696X BEAST! That saw was absolutely flawless except for the placement of the stick on measuring tape on the rail. Weight, table thickness, it crushed every 10 inch saw with ease. I'd have another one sitting in the shop now except they have been on backorder for months and I decided I was at the age that I should opt for the SawStop safety feature.

While I'd never buy another Powermatic table saw Powermatic is my current choice for bandsaw, planer and mortiser. While the table saw experience was sour I won't let that stop me from picking the best machine. If Powermatic has the comp beat then so be it.

[Alex Zeller]

I don't know about the PM1500 base but a number of the Powermatic bases are made in the US. If it has a US flag on it then it's made int he US. I know the base for my PJ882 is US made.

[Bobby Robbinett]

I no longer see the advantages of choosing a Powermatic machine over a Grizzly. Grizzly has come a long way but their customer service has always been top notch for the most part. I have several Powermatic machines and have not had good experiences with Powermatic customer service and their parts department is a joke. Plus their parts are just ridiculously priced high.

[Holmes Anderson]

How does the curved PM cabinet fit on the rectangular Grizzly mobile base?

[Charles Coolidge]

How does the curved PM cabinet fit on the rectangular Grizzly mobile base?

I don't believe the curved cabinet is an issue beyond aesthetics. Here's my 15Hh planer, the front of the cabinet is curved and it's snug on all four sides with no movement.

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Lets take a close look at the Grizzly 4 swivel Bear Crawl, the caster has a cast metal hub with a urethane tire and bearings. That foot operated lift pin is about 3/4 inch in diameter.

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Here I extended the base with some steel tubing from Metals Supermarket. Grizzly sells rails to extend the base but were out of stock, the local steel tubing was relatively inexpensive.

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Here's the top side

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[Derek Arita]

Well, I guess everyone's experience is going to be different. Back a few years ago, I purchased several large PM machines and had great experience with all of them, including my PM2000. All the machines from Taiwan were as close to perfect as I could want and I've been happy with every machine since, and I'm a picky guy.
All that said, if you have any doubts, pull the plug now, before it's too late. You can always reorder later.

[Charles Coolidge]

Measured table flatness on my new PM1500 bandsaw just now, a .021 crown down the center. I'm on hold with customer service.

Update: Finishing up with customer service as I type this. The customer service lady is quite nice and polite. They are sending me a replacement table. There you go my first interaction with Powermatic customer service went well!

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[Peter Kelly]

https://youtu.be/qARex9vM_Lo

It seems that QC at Powermatic is a bit of an afterthought these days.

[Mike Tekin]

I no longer see the advantages of choosing a Powermatic machine over a Grizzly. Grizzly has come a long way but their customer service has always been top notch for the most part. I have several Powermatic machines and have not had good experiences with Powermatic customer service and their parts department is a joke. Plus their parts are just ridiculously priced high.

I concur well said.

[Edward Weber]

+1 more
Many tools are living off a reputation long past. IMHO Pwermatic tools are overpriced for what you get. You can buy some other brands like a Grizzly, which are more affordable for those of us with a home shop and you get the same features for less. There are always debates about good build quality and quality control which are important but as the OP has shown it's not exclusive to one brand over another.
I have a few Grizzly machines and I'm very happy with them. I could have bought a Powermatic machine but instead I bought 2 Grizzly machines.

[Richard Coers]

I no longer see the advantages of choosing a Powermatic machine over a Grizzly. Grizzly has come a long way but their customer service has always been top notch for the most part. I have several Powermatic machines and have not had good experiences with Powermatic customer service and their parts department is a joke. Plus their parts are just ridiculously priced high.
The 5 year vs 1 year warranty doesn't carry any weight for you? I know it's silly to ask a Grizzly fan questions like that. LOL

[Alex Zeller]

The 5 year vs 1 year warranty doesn't carry any weight for you? I know it's silly to ask a Grizzly fan questions like that. LOL

How often have you had a warranty issue after the 1st year with woodworking equipment? I'm trying to think of a case and I can't. Normally it's defects when they made a tool that are getting fixed. With Grizzly for very little money you can double the warranty by purchasing the Shop Fox version. I can see in the future as electronics find their way onto woodworking tools a longer warranty could be useful.

[Edward Weber]

I'll bite as a Grizzly fan, I would like a longer warranty.
But warranties aren't free, you pay for the warranty as part of the purchase price. Which is one reason you pay more for a tool with a longer warranty.
A $2500 Griz And a comparable PM for $4000, first year your covered, second to fifth year, you're out of pocket for anything with the Griz but you would have to spend $1500 in those four years to equal the price of the PM. Is it a risk, depends on if you trust the quality of the manufacturer.
I buy what works for me, your mileage may vary as they say.

[Adam Weinstein]

Thanks for all the responses - I canceled. Sad to see the Made in America sticker on something suffering from bad workmanship.

[Rush Paul]

In the realm of experiences do differ, our retirement community's woodworking shop accepted delivery last week of a large order of Powermatic equipment: 2000B 3HP table saw, PM1500 bandsaw, 3520C lathe, 60HH 8" jointer, and PM2800B drill press. All arrived in excellent condition, paint intact, fit and finish very high quality, all exposed metal surfaces lightly oiled and covered in plastic. The table saw, bandsaw, lathe, and jointer were perfectly aligned from the factory with only a minor adjustment needed on the jointer's infeed table which was easily accomplished. (And we may have caused that alignment issue when we lifted the jointer bed onto it's base.) We've got a bunch of aerospace engineers here in Huntsville AL ("Rocket City") and I can assure you the digital calipers and dial indicators were out and being applied rigorously.

The outlier thus far is the 2800B drill press. It has more vibration in the motor and head than we expected, and the runout measured against the chucked shank of a good quality drill bit (Fisch) was a bit greater that we expected to see (.003"). We contacted our dealer who put us in touch with Powermatic service the same day. The PM service tech had us send him some photos and a video of the drill press running with the cover removed so the drive assembly was visible. He then asked that we put a dial indicator against the inside of the spindle shaft and tell him what runout we measured there. When we checked the inside of the spindle shaft, the runout there was less than .001" - that's as good as we could ever expect for a woodworking machine.

But, the vibration still concerned us, and we need to find a solution to the final runout with chuck mounted. Since the tech on the phone concluded that he could not see anything obviously out of alignment via the photos and videos, he has moved to their next step: an on-site visit by a service technician who will drive in from 3 hours away to look at the machine. Commitment from the PM service tech with whom we spoke initially: PM will replace the motor if that's the problem, or will replace whatever may be out-of-alignment and get the machine running to spec, or they will replace the machine. We've heard from the tech who will be coming on-site and he expects to be here in the next 3-5 days as he can work out his schedule.

Interestingly, the four machines that set up perfectly were all manufactured in Taiwan and all showed evidence of some sawdust as we unpacked and assembled them, indicating that someone actually cut some wood with these machines as a final step in the QC process. The drill press was manufactured in China -- and, no, there was no sawdust anywhere in it's flat pack container.

FWIMBW, our dealer is Woodcraft and not an online-only seller.

[Rush Paul]

It seems that QC at Powermatic is a bit of an afterthought these days.

In fairness, be sure to check his follow-up videos. His complaint is with the online dealer from whom he bought the PM tablesaw. Once the online dealer put him directly in touch with PM, PM replaced the saw. A year later, he's been very pleased with the new saw and has had zero problems with it. So, a QC problem? Most definitely. But lemons do occur. Importantly, did PM stand behind it's equipment? Yes.

[Brian Backner]

Though not for everyone, my approach for the last thirty years is to only buy American-made machinery produced before corporate bean counters began outsourcing manufacturing to the Far East to boost profits. The newest machine I have is a PM model 72 table saw dating to 1972 - at 800+ pounds with a 7.5hp motor, it is a beast that will handle anything I throw at it and it is dead on accurate. While I love the thing, some day I will find a Tannewitz or Northfield to replace it. I have other machines - both wood- and metal-working - dating to the mid-20s. Most of the time, with some patience, these can be found on CraigsList for a song, but require a lot of work as they are usually beat up, rusted, and/or missing critical parts. It typically takes three to six months and some multiple of the purchase price (for replacement parts/bearings.new motors/ etc.) to disassemble, sandblast, repair and repaint a given machine but, when completed, I have a very high quality, solid piece of equipment made of American cast iron and parts that will outlast today's imports. as well as me and whoever ends up with them when I'm gone. Of course, this also requires one to count "machinery rebuilding" among your hobbies. YMMV

[Edward Weber]

We've got a bunch of aerospace engineers here in Huntsville AL ("Rocket City") and I can assure you the digital calipers and dial indicators were out and being applied rigorously.


Keep those guys and their gadgets out of the shop and the drill press will be fine in no time.

[Brian Tymchak]

In the realm of experiences do differ, our retirement community's woodworking shop accepted delivery last week of a large order of Powermatic equipment:


Never heard of a retirement community having a full wood shop like that. Nice!




The outlier thus far is the 2800B drill press. It has more vibration in the motor and head than we expected, and the runout measured against the chucked shank of a good quality drill bit (Fisch) was a bit greater that we expected to see (.003").
....
He then asked that we put a dial indicator against the inside of the spindle shaft and tell him what runout we measured there. When we checked the inside of the spindle shaft, the runout there was less than .001" - that's as good as we could ever expect for a woodworking machine.


When shopping for a drill bit blank as a reference for measuring runout on my DP, I found that all drill rod product I found claimed a tolerance of .002 of runout. (6" blank). So, I agree that your DP is probably as close to 0 as you can get. Congrats on that! I need to change the chuck on my Nova Voyager to get better than the .007 runout I currently have.

[Peter Kelly]

In fairness, be sure to check his follow-up videos. His complaint is with the online dealer from whom he bought the PM tablesaw. Once the online dealer put him directly in touch with PM, PM replaced the saw. A year later, he's been very pleased with the new saw and has had zero problems with it. So, a QC problem? Most definitely. But lemons do occur. Importantly, did PM stand behind it's equipment? Yes.Per the video, it took him 10 months to get that replacement from Powermatic and the first saw he received was non-functional for the bulk of that time. I'd surmise that someone from JPW Industries PR team saw the negative review on YT, management decided to send him a new machine.

[Jim Becker]

Never heard of a retirement community having a full wood shop like that. Nice!

I have a friend/former colleague who now lives in The Villages in central Florida. They have an uber-nice community woodworking shop (maybe even more than one considering the size of the overall community) that I had the pleasure to visit and tour a couple years ago. Membership is required, but for the many community members who enjoy woodworking but can't keep a personal full shop at their home, it fills a need. Honestly, however, most of the folks I met were generally standing around, drinking caffeinated beverages and chewing the fat... :D

[Rush Paul]

When shopping for a drill bit blank as a reference for measuring runout on my DP, I found that all drill rod product I found claimed a tolerance of .002 of runout. (6" blank).
Thanks, that's very helpful information to calibrate our expectations.

[Rush Paul]

Keep those guys and their gadgets out of the shop and the drill press will be fine in no time.
Yeah, we have to keep reminding them: this is woodworking! :rolleyes:

[Bert McMahan]

We purchased a PM2000 for my brother back when they first came out so many years ago, the quality was shockingly poor. They obviously were cashing in on the iconic name at inflated prices but delivering the typical CHINA/Taiwan quality. There are some real contenders today. I currently own a new SawStop 5hp ICS and l love it. Wow it's quiet. Fit and finish flawless. The mobile base is genius. One design flaw on their big overam dust collector but other than that nothing to even nitpick about. Prior to this I owned the Grizzly 12 inch G0696X BEAST! That saw was absolutely flawless except for the placement of the stick on measuring tape on the rail. Weight, table thickness, it crushed every 10 inch saw with ease. I'd have another one sitting in the shop now except they have been on backorder for months and I decided I was at the age that I should opt for the SawStop safety feature.

While I'd never buy another Powermatic table saw Powermatic is my current choice for bandsaw, planer and mortiser. While the table saw experience was sour I won't let that stop me from picking the best machine. If Powermatic has the comp beat then so be it.


You know Grizzly makes their stuff overseas too, right?

[Rob Damon]

I think it is like cars. A company can make 500000 vehicles and some people will end up with a lemon. The joke in the industry was don’t buy something made Monday morning or Friday afternoon.
I have 15 PM large tools all bought new 13-14 years ago and have had zero issue, zero breaks, zero warranty claims and they have always responded quickly to questions. I did order spare parts, just to have them and they came quickly but this was before COVID which has disrupted the supply chain from China.

Did they come with a minor scratch to two, yes. I put several on them over the years myself. But I didn’t buy a museum piece. They have all worked perfectly for me.

The PM vertical panel saw is the only tool still made in the USA.

The reality that 90% of the parts that are in the “Made in the USA” products comes from overseas. They are just assembled in the USA.

One international company would have a product completely made in China and shipped bulk from China. They would be depalletized in Tenn and put in individual for sale boxes, tested and noted as “assembled in the USA.”

[Charles Coolidge]

You know Grizzly makes their stuff overseas too, right?

Don't pick a fight with the Grizzly G0696X it will crush you! lol Seriously the two saws sitting side by side was striking, the PM2000 looked intimidated.

[Holmes Anderson]

I just set up a new PM60 jointer. Infeed table, outfeed table, and cutterhead were parallel out of the box. Infeed and outfeed table tolerance is 0.0020". The fence tolerance is 0.0025". No dents or scratches. Drive pulley had to be moved on the motor shaft to align with pulley on cutterhead shaft but otherwise no adjustments needed. The outfeed table was even aligned with the knives. The last time I set up a new PM machine was a PM209 more than 10 years ago. On that machine the infeed and outfeed rollers, chipbreaker, pressure bar, and knives were all out of alignment out of the box but the machine was well made.

[glenn bradley]

Yeah, we have to keep reminding them: this is woodworking! :rolleyes:


Warning . . . joke ahead . . .

This is woodworking:
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So is this:
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I imagine most of use are somewhere in between.

There are fans and detractors of several brands, methods and so forth amongst us. Early on I went with a few Grizzly machines that offered the most bang for the buck. At so much lower of a price point than the mustard machines I was comfortable fiddling a bit with a new machine, possibly swapping a part if damaged or poorly QA'd. Once setup those machines have served me well.

It is always disappointing when the brand we grew up with that was "the better brand" falls off the pedestal. Some come and go in quality in an almost predictable cycle like Laguna. Others like Delta or Porter Cable fall and I can hardly get my head around it. Our current world shifted long ago from the time when we did almost EVERYTHING better and first. I'm a silver lining kind of guy though. I think we have the opportunity to "come back" and rock the world again.

Oops! . . . Ouch!! . . . I fell off my soap box :D:D:D

[Leigh Betsch]

I bought that drill press when it first came out. I don’t remember the exact detail ( I did a write up here a few years ago). But I ended up getting two more replacements sent to me and returned them all. IIRC there was .050 axial play in the motor to pulley connection on all three. It caused significant noise. The radial runout of the spindle was ok though. That’s when I realized that PM has just become a marketing company and don’t actually own their own manufacturing plants any longer.