Bandsaw Advice - Buy new or upgrade old?

[Eric Arnsdorff]

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I have a Grizzly G1073 16" Bandsaw (2 hp) I bought new in 1999. It's a good bandsaw but I've struggled getting great cuts out of it. It still has all original hardware (other than the blade). It runs as good as it did new but I'd describe the overall build as a bit "loose". It has decent capability and I use it fairly regularly.

I'm debating upgrading to the Carter bearing guides. But I'm not sure if I should just sell it and buy a more expensive model and hope it will have better characteristics.

I went by the local Woodcraft and they have none in stock to look at. As with everything else these days it looks like it will be several months before anything is in stock.

I'm just not sure if buying a new band saw sight unseen will make much difference in the operation. I do like the idea of a blade detensioner to make blade changes easier. I would hope the build quality of some would be "tighter". I've looked a little at the Laguna 14", Jet 15", Harvey 14" and Powermatic 15" (that one is around $3k). I'm ok with spending around $2k or so. The $3k is getting above my pain threshold.

I'm interested in those of you with bandsaws in this range and especially if any of you have upgraded from an old Grizzly to know if it is worth buying new or if I should just add some upgrades, tune it up and keep going. TIA

[Charles Coolidge]

Our Woodcraft and Rockler chains stores are sold out, yet our local Wood Crafters has so many machines in stock they barely have room to stack the stuff. Gobs of Laguna's, Powermatic's and SawStop's. Ditto for most anything else you are looking for, sold out at the chain stores and gobs of stuff in stock at the local store. If there's a non chain store within a drive of your location check them out?

I'm assembling my brand new Powermatic PM1500 bandsaw as I type this. I ordered it back when it was on sale 10% off plus free shipping in Feb, took 4 months to ship.

[Tom Trees]

I would think that anything less than a 16" is a big trade down.
Personally, I don't use anything but a thrust guide on a larger saw, but it has flat tires

I suggest seeing how other folks are getting by, with their saws if its a problem with the guides.
You still should be able to make good cuts without needing them.

If its the guidepost/shroud and not the side rollers, is what is giving you the loose feeling,
That to me suggests your spending more time adjusting rather than cutting, and somethings off.

edit: Yes that guidepost is loose on many a machine, but you forget about that, as you don't really need to be spending so much time
adjusting guides, if there's nothing wrong with the saw in the first place.


Tom

[Jim Becker]

I agree with Tom, going smaller isn't a good idea unless your projects are exclusively going smaller, too.

You mention not getting "great cuts" with your current bandsaw. What do you mean by that? Bandsaws are kinda a rough cutting tool due to their nature, so if you mean surface quality, you can sometimes gett a better surface with the right blade, at least initially, but it's never going to be like a table saw. If you mean it's not cutting predictably relative to direction so you can dial in the fence to the cut line, then that could be tune-up or better guides, etc.

I'm certainly not trying to talk you out of buying a new, biger, badder bandsaw...I'm a good enabler for sure...I'm just suggesting you consider what's not working for you now so you can make a better decision. Buying new isn't going to be easy right now because of constrained supply, too, so improving what you have, if that's possible, may be the better play, even if it's time limited until the market adjusts.

[Jeff Ramsey]

What blades are you using? I can tell you that my bandsaw performance jumped dramatically when I started using Lennox Woodmaster CT blades. The blades I used to use never really cut well. If your Grizzly is turning the blade accurately, with no movement on the upper/lower wheels then you really are left with the blade and the actual saw power. Mine is a Felder so power isn't an issue, but even with poorer quality blades a powerful saw won't cut properly. And I used to have a Carter quick release on a Powermatic 14" bandsaw, before I upgraded to my Felder, and the casting broke apart one day as I tried to tension the blade. Remember, it's the blade that cuts. Also, blade tension is critical (which is why I bought a Starrett tensioning gauge).

[Edward Weber]

You say "struggle getting good cuts", what exactly does that mean?
From your post and photos, personally I would tune it up and keep it. Even if you have to buy a couple upgrades, you're not going to find a 2Hp saw that size for the price of a couple of accessories

[glenn bradley]

You are getting all the expected questions and good answers will help tune the responses to be more valuable to you. Otherwise we have to guess and be pretty general.

Folks have touched on size; I only want bigger and more powerful characteristics from a bandsaw. This is a machine where raw horsepower generally translates into better performance. That said, I do keep a little 10" Rikon around for curvy stuff with smaller bands.

As to quality of cut; as with most tools the business end drives most of the performance. A quality cutter will outshine a poor or worn one every time. Bandsaw blades are wear parts. With a few exceptions you discard blades as they wear. Deferred blade replacement leads to many of the ills people have with their saws.

My question is about the term "loose". What's going on here? Is the saw rattling? Does the saw seem unstable? Again, being a loose guess based on what I see in the pics . . .
- Toss a ballast (a bag of Quikrete wrapped in plastic to prevent leaks works well) on the plywood bottom of your mobile base for some mass.
- Add panels to your legged stand to provide some shear strength making the stand more solid.
- A couple sections of split tubing on the rim of the door panels where they meet their counterparts would eliminate any rattle or slipping around with that type of door latch.

I'll stop there in case I am way off in my guessing. Looking forward to more info from you. If the motor, bearings, wheels and tires are all in decent shape I think you could tune that machine up to be a nice machine.

[Alex Zeller]

What do you typically use it for? What would you like to do but feel like you can't without a struggle? That looks like one of Grizzly's cast iron series bandsaws. It may not be able to properly tension a wide blade which could be causing you problems. So next question would be what size blades do you use and is there one that gives you more problems?

[Charles Coolidge]

A quality cutter will outshine a poor or worn one every time.

^^^ nailed it!

[Eric Arnsdorff]

Thanks for the replies! I have a few answers below to some of the questions.
Interestingly, I stopped back by my local Woodcraft today and got on the subject of bandsaws as I was looking at some of the potential upgrades (carter magnetic fence, etc.). The lady there is always very friendly and told me that they had just gotten a couple of Laguna 14 BX (220V 2.5 hp) units in back and I got to see them in the box. So there is an opportunity to buy one. Sadly, I think I probably like buying tools as much as woodworking.

Some mentioned/referenced the size difference of the 16" Grizzly I own and the ones I listed. While the number "16" is bigger, I consider my saw closer to the14"/15" units and that size seems adequate for me (not that I wouldn't like a larger saw). Grizzly made the 16" portion as more of a marketing characteristic in my opinion. It is a good band saw but as I reference it is a bit "loose" ... meaning:

1. The upper guide is held in place with a set screw on a shaft. This can be made fairly solid but as a lot of Chinese made equipment suffers from proper hardened steel components and tolerancing is loose. So a bump will always misalign the upper guide.

2. The height adjustment for the upper guide has some play when moved up and down resulting in sometimes needing to readjust when the height of the upper guide is changed.

3. The guide blocks themselves move when tightened and takes a while to adjust properly. This part could be resolved with a guide upgrade such as Carter's I would assume.

4. The blade tensioner has a die spring that basically is always compressed even using the approach that Timberwolf suggested which was much less tension than I ran in the past.

5. Some mentioned the "cutter" and I assume the blade is being referenced. The 1/2" 3 TPI blade from Timberwolf I'm using in the pic for resaw is actually really good but I added a bit of twist being lazy and trying to cut radius on it. Now I need a new blade to correct this. Once again this leads me to the desire for the quick blade changes provided by a de-tensioner.

6. While the covers and such can rattle, overall I keep it in good order with minimum to no rattle. The bandsaw if very heavy and no need to add additional weight. Vibration is reasonable to minimum.

7. The fence is very poor quality but it doesn't appear that a perfect fence is really needed for a bandsaw. There are some aftermarket options that I expect would make this a non-issue.

8. There are various other items such as the table tilt is made of similar inferior metal as discussed above. It doesn't take a lot to knock the table out of adjustment. It isn't too difficult to readjust but I suspect "better" quality saws provide more rigid support. Generally, this is why I don't want to blindly buy a saw and end up with the same issues and have less money.

9. Due to all of the variances and difficulties mentioned above I often end up with sub par cuts finding I need to re-adjust. When I have a good blade and completed an alignment I can achieve pretty good cuts and it works for my purposes. It's not terrible and I'd feel good about selling it to someone who may have either none or a smaller/less capable saw.

I think I answered some of the questions. Basically, you can look at any aspect of the saw and see that it is "good enough" and I have had it for over 20 years now so it's not bad. I just don't know if what is out there in this $2k price range is truly better or just a way for me to be $2k poorer.

[Phillip Mitchell]

You might look at a Laguna 18BX...don’t have any idea on availability or lead time, but I’ve got to imagine that it would be more than a few steps ahead of your 20 year old Grizzly with worn adjustment points. The issues you speak of are a combination of relatively cheap/poor build quality and design and being 20 years old and not all of them are easy or simple to fix if you’re working towards repeatable precision.

I typically like older, industrial quality stationary tools and have a mid 80s era Italian saw that I recently replaced tires, replaced original Euro guides with Laguna ceramic, and finally tried out a Lenox Woodmaster CT carbide blade. The resulting resaw cuts I’ve made so far are amazing, however this saw, while 35 years old, is a different level of size and build quality than your Chinese built Grizzly and is worthy of upgrades. Not sure I’d feel the same way about the Grizzly, but we’re all different.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

Phillip you did a good job of reading my mind! You've gotta give Grizzly credit for using the imported resource to make a machine that is good and still runs well after 22 years. But the way you described it is exactly the dilemma in my head - is it worth the upgrade... This is why I like Jim's tag line and am a victim of it - "The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often..."

Interestingly, I had switched over to looking at the 18" versions and the Laguna 18BX looks like a great choice (but does bump the cost up a bit). I'd still love to see a Jet 18". My impression of Jet is they offer good tools and could offer something close to Laguna but typically not at the level of heft the Powermatic tools I've seen offer. The Powermatic 18 starts really getting out of my cost pain threshold (even the 15 Powermatic is a bit more than I want to spend).

Ultimately, the cost of a bandsaw is why I started this thread. I'm surprised at the cost and creates the question of upgrading my unit versus buying new. These cost as much as a mid-level saw stop table saw. I'd love to find a good used unit but I haven't come across any in my looking. Even expanding my search out a ways. Based on threads I've found the cost appears to have gone up 50-100% over the last few years - maybe that's all been this year's crazy inflation events.

[Alex Zeller]

I think Grizzly has come a long ways since making that saw. If you think you can get a reasonable price for it I think I would upgrade. Only you can say for sure if going from it to a 14" saw is not going to be a downgrade just like only you can decide how much to spend to upgrade. I had a 14" Harbor Freight bandsaw given to me. I put a riser block on it as well as a number of other upgrades. In the end I realized that all I was doing was throwing money at a saw that was never going to be what I wanted. So I replace it with a 19" Grizzly that has worked out great for me. I thought it might be too big but not at all. A part of my decision to got bigger was because I plan on woodworking for at least 20 more years and wanted to not regret buying too small. I would make a list of what you want to do with a bandsaw and then see if the 14 BX will do them without much struggle.

As for will it be an improvement. I routinely use a 1/2" bimetal Lenox blade for cutting bowl blanks on my Grizzly. After 2 years I'm still using the original blade. No twists and still plenty sharp. So most likely if you could have properly tensioned the blade in your 16" saw it most likely wouldn't have been twisted.

[Tom Trees]

There's a lot of answers there which clearly suggests selling that machine in favour of a smaller one would be a bad idea.

1 Guides and guideposts have nothing to do with how well the saw should cut,
What does the cut look like when using only the thrust guides?

2 The guidepost doesn't sound parallel with the blade, that could be loads of things
Level machine, make wheels co-planar and in line with frame to see what's the issue.

3 Guides are like stabilizers for wheels that have some size to them, you're probably about the minimum wheel size for not really needing them.
You wouldn't need to mess with them, if it were running sweet.

4 Which may well give the hint that a smaller machine will be worse again, weight is about the best guide you have for that.

5 I can't say that new whistle doesn't sound good, but at the sacrifice of the things you need like mass and size, no way personally.
That's why I always suggest a comfortably sized saw for the blade at hand, so the threads on the screw are beefy and the design is heftier.

6 Should be quiet

7 A fence is only as good as the alignment that it's in, everythings probably alright if set

8 There's only one small screw on the 24" saw I have, which broke.
I use my bandsaw for ripping and resawing, so have no need to tilt mine.

9 None of that stuff should be affecting your cut, what does the cut look like with a new blade, or one only used for straight cuts
as in no.1

I think you will have exactly all the same issues, possibly compounded with a smaller wheeled lighter machine
at the expense of a bell and whistle.
Quick change blade, and presumably rack and pinion trunnion.

I'd say that a bigger machine might be what your looking for, not a smaller one.

Have a look John Teneyck's posts here as he has a Grizz, fair enough its a skookum machine, but is the same size, and has crowned tires.
He pushes that grizzly.



Many folk seem happy with theirs

" I just don't know why you guys, are so down on the Grizz,
The resaws I been gettin' are the mutha f'in' shizz.
The girls all be impressed by my 17 inch sweep,
5 back slices per inch, I could resaw in my sleep!
Gangsta Rap Chris "

[Eric Arnsdorff]

Alex - I'm glad you commented about the Grizzly. I know they carry larger and potentially better units but I only have my experience with a jointer and bandsaw. My jointer was a similar experience. It was a very good tool and worked as good the day I sold it as new (actually better than new because I cleaned up the dovetail ways to make it slide smoothly, shimmed it up and such). But it still wasn't a completely solid build. This is the story with my Grizzly bandsaw as well. I replaced my Grizzly 6" jointer with an old partially American made Delta DJ20 8" jointer and it is a significant improvement.

I do agree that ultimately only I can decide the value to me. I think I've learned enough from the valuable input here that it would be difficult to overcome the shortcomings of my bandsaw with upgrades and that other tools could resolve the shortcomings. Similar to you I plan for at least 20-40 :-) more years of woodworking.

Grizzly still competes well in cost as one would expect. Possibly the higher end units resolve some of the as seen issues with my tools. Maybe I should put their similar priced units in my search and move forward.

[lowell holmes]

Look for a local store like these, they can help.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bandsaw%20blades&sxsrf=ALeKk03Pc2y0DkRQzRSmr3eZSZ_fqp8HRg:162497770 2704&source=hp&ei=GzHbYNO6Iuy1qtsPgpu30AE&iflsig=AINFCbYAAAAAYNs_KygVbf7Wp-pIxkrNH0u5SG75nDQ8&oq=bandsa&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYATIFCAAQsQMyBQgAELEDMgUIABC xAzIICAAQsQMQyQMyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAA6D QguEMcBEKMCECcQkwI6BAgjECc6DgguELEDEIMBEMcBEKMCOgg ILhCxAxCDAToLCC4QsQMQxwEQowI6AgguOhEILhCxAxCDARDHA RCjAhCTAjoFCAAQyQM6BQgAEJIDOggILhCxAxCTAjoFCC4QsQN QkhxY6TRgmVRoAHAAeACAAViIAboDkgEBNpgBAKABAaoBB2d3c y13aXo&sclient=gws-wiz&tbs=lf:1,lf_ui:10&tbm=lcl&rflfq=1&num=10&rldimm=15843055772640852118&lqi=Cg5iYW5kc2F3IGJsYWRlc0iw8dKt5oCAgAhaFBAAEAEiDm JhbmRzYXcgYmxhZGVzkgEKdG9vbF9zdG9yZZoBJENoZERTVWhO TUc5blMwVkpRMEZuU1VNNGEzTTJialpSUlJBQqoBFhABKhIiDm JhbmRzYXcgYmxhZGVzKAA&phdesc=YWnAjblJjV8&ved=2ahUKEwi4s_LVib3xAhWkkmoFHelQB9kQvS4wA3oECBgQS A&rlst=f#rlfi=hd:;si:15843055772640852118,l,Cg5iYW5k c2F3IGJsYWRlc0iw8dKt5oCAgAhaFBAAEAEiDmJhbmRzYXcgYm xhZGVzkgEKdG9vbF9zdG9yZZoBJENoZERTVWhOTUc5blMwVkpR MEZuU1VNNGEzTTJialpSUlJBQqoBFhABKhIiDmJhbmRzYXcgYm xhZGVzKAA,y,YWnAjblJjV8;mv:[[29.875375699999996,-94.9131043],[29.367535300000004,-95.5590421]];tbs:lrf:!1m4!1u3!2m2!3m1!1e1!1m4!1u2!2m2!2m1!1e1! 1m4!1u16!2m2!16m1!1e1!1m4!1u16!2m2!16m1!1e2!2m1!1e 2!2m1!1e16!2m1!1e3!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:10

[Jeff Ramsey]

5. Some mentioned the "cutter" and I assume the blade is being referenced. The 1/2" 3 TPI blade from Timberwolf I'm using in the pic for resaw is actually really good but I added a bit of twist being lazy and trying to cut radius on it. Now I need a new blade to correct this. Once again this leads me to the desire for the quick blade changes provided by a de-tensioner.


I gave up on the manufacturer you mentioned as I found their blades don't hold an edge long enough for my resawing, which is primarily wide (12" - 16") North American hardwoods. I ended up with more scratch stock that I'll ever use in my lifetime. I also don't change my resaw blade on my Felder. For other bandsaw work, I use my older Powermatic 141 14" bandsaw. If you've only one bandsaw, I can understand the desire for a quick-change setup.

[Tom Trees]

I've only copped that this is an old design machine.
Didn't realize they went back that far, there has been a lot of changes since, like cast iron bandwheels
for one.
I'll bet that frame on legs weighs as much as the floor standing machines now, (which I thought it was)
As said beefy threads and stout carriage assembly make for easier blade changes, if comfortably sized.

That could narrow things down or vice versa...
the deal breaker could be the fancy trunnion?

[Charles Coolidge]

Alex - I'm glad you commented about the Grizzly.

Lets compare one of the better bandsaws in Grizzly's lineup the G0514X2B 19 inch bandsaw which I owned prior with the new Powermatic PM1500 15 inch I just purchased. Both manufactured in Taiwan both 3hp and only $200 price difference (during the Powermatic 10% off sale with free shipping).

One would think the 19 inch Grizzly would be a much larger saw in a different class but in reality the Powermatic 15 has more resaw height 14 inches vs 12 inches on the Grizzly. The Powermatic is also taller 80 inches vs 76 inches for the Grizzly. Grizzly wins the weight contest but only just barely 427 lbs vs 396 lbs for the Powermatic. Again one would think such a larger saw 19 vs 15 would be substantially heavier. Blade length again Powermatic 153 inches vs 143 inches for the larger Grizzly.

Then there's the warranty, 5 year for the Powermatic vs 1 year for the Grizzly. Honestly both saws have some larger saw features that are interesting. The rack and pinion table tilt on the Grizzly superior in every way to the Powermatic if one is using the tilt feature on a regular basis. The Grizzly has a much larger table, only issue is Grizzly can't seem to grind them flat. Mine was out, the replacement table they sent was even worse.

I prefer the T style fence on the Powermatic which is quite heavy duty. The fence on this particular Grizzly is pretty good though. WARNING: The fence is one of the things Grizzly tends to cheap out on you really have to watch what fence you are getting when shopping their saws.

Speaking of Grizzly cheaping out, plastic handwheels seriously? (face palm)

Here's my bottom line after owning 6 Grizzly/Shop Fox machines, all but one arrived with defects I had to fix and that got on my last nerve. The China/Taiwan manufacture knowingly ships defective machines, on purpose sticking the customer with their defects they don't care and I'm just so DONE with that, to infinity.

[Edward Weber]

Of course it's ultimately up to you.
Speaking for myself ONLY, I would throw the TW blade in the trash and try something/anything else. I buy mine from Sawblade.com (https://www.sawblade.com/bandsaw-blades-for-wood-cutting.cfm?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpaCRkqS98QIVkic4Ch3O 2wF5EAAYASABEgJQrvD_BwE) but there are plenty of good manufacturers out there.
All of the problems/annoyances you listed can be either repaired or replaced with aftermarket accessories.
Try a new blade and see how it goes, it's probably the least expensive way to help you make your decision.
Just my opinion

[glenn bradley]

Thanks for all the clarification. You are in a good place with this saw. I have several Grizzly tools and all are really solid for their price point. Your machine has given you a couple of decades of service so you have certainly gotten your money’s worth from it. It will be really tough to get a solid recommendation as to whether to keep or replace.

If you feel the base machine is solid you could certainly throw a few hundred bucks in after market stuff at it. Your description of the guide post and the guides in general could make using the tool a daily annoyance. I am afraid that it is going to be up to you in the end. ;-)

[Alex Zeller]

Eric, Grizzly is not without their faults. When I decided to upgrade I figured out what I wanted and then found the machines that fit into that range. I'm a turner at heart so I routinely round blanks for turning so a solid table was near the top. Resaw height didn't need to be any higher than the HF with the riser block. I narrowed it down to the Laguna BX 18 and the Grizzly The Laguna had more resaw than I would ever use but in the end it came down to the trunnions. The G0514X2 came with cast iron ones (vs the Laguna's aluminum) and a rack and pinion system for tilting the table. Then Grizzly sent me a 10% off coupon and that sealed it.

When I got the grizzly it vibrated, which was one of the complaints on-line about it. At first I just used the slower speed but then I traced it down to the urethane tires. With them off and the throw away blade on it was smooth. I could have gotten a replacement set from Grizzly but I decided to go with ones from Blue Max. The 10% off more than paid for them. Now I can balance a nickel on edge, start it up and shut it off without it falling over. I tried with a dime but it kept rolling off the table.

Charles the fence is a hit or miss on the G0514. It works well but the locking handle when released flips up and is in the way since it's on the material side of the fence. It took a minor fix to solve but it's still a stupid design. I have several Powermatic tools and the head of the local wood turners club has a PM1500 that I've used. It has some features I like but I don't think for my use I would pay extra for it. The plastic wheels don't bother me one bit. They work just fine. Metal wheels do look nice and if I really want I could replace them but I'm fine with saving $100 and sticking with plastic.

Both the Grizzly and the Laguna were about the same weight. The Rikon was quite a bit lighter. I set a budget of $2k so the Powermatic was out. I'm sure the PM1500 would have looked very nice next to my PJ882 jointer.

[Jim Dwight]

My "upgrade" was to a Jet SFX, 14 inch. It does not have the issues you are experiencing but 14 inches from the blade to the column may not be what you need. I find a 3/4 blade works significantly better for me when re-sawing than a 1/2. It has a fence that flips from about 1/2 inch high to 6 inches high. Metal handwheels, easy detension, etc.. They probably make a bigger one with similar features. It has 13 inch clearance for resawing but the deepest I've done is about 9 inches in cherry. That required a fairly slow feed rate but the saw did it fine. The bottom blade guides are a bit difficult to adjust but other than that I like it a lot. Dust extraction also works well (2 ports).

[Eric Arnsdorff]

Luckily my economics right now are allowing me to make the decision to buy new. The advice that upgrading my current saw means I will still have a lot of the shortcomings no matter what I do along with planning to do this for many years to come has made the buy new decision for me.
I’ve upped my pain threshold and put the following saws on my list to choose from:

- Harvey ALPHA HW615P $2690+$360=$3050
- Powermatic PM1500 $3000+$0 shipping=$3000
- Laguna 18BX $2499+$99=$2600
- Laguna LT16 $3499+$199=$3700
- Laguna LT18 $3900+$199=$4100

The Laguna 18BX looks like a good coat point. I’m not clear how different the LT18 is from the 18BX.
The Powermatic is the only saw I e seen but it’s been a while and I wasn’t looking for a bandsaw when I saw it. It’s sure far from a bad choice.
I started another thread asking about Harvey and what machines they make as they indicate they are the OEM for other brands. They look good but I’m not sure what to make of them. I’m all for buying American and good quality but I’m disappointed in no American choices and the shell game all the manufacturers have resorted to.

[Tom Trees]

I would have thought Rikon with Van Husky's approval, (look him up on here)
and the many Grizzly's like John Tenyck's tank of a 17" would be up there too.

On your list the 18BX looks like clear winner, (to me) if that tension system is good.
I'd be looking at the screws on all of them for some idea of that, along with the weight of the machine.

For me wanting the best ripping and resawing machine is the priority, so bigger wheels (cast iron) is better,
Saying that, I haven't heard of anything happening to those granite wheeled bandsaws, I'd be cautious personally.

and I pretty much use a 3/4" for everything.
I don't care for fancy trunnions, although I may make one someday, if I feel I want that option,
might be more want for making a better designed one that I cobbled together.

I have a 24" machine, and find its a breeze to de-tension my blades.
I suppose a 20" or close to that of some sort of weight around 200kg isn't too bad.

I know you said you're looking to spend for new,
but that shouldn't rule out a new used saw.

[Charles Coolidge]

After spending an hour reviewing BBB complaints and a number of customer service horror stories I'd cross off any bandsaw that starts with an "L".

[Alex Zeller]

If I remember correctly the LT bandsaws by Laguna are made in Europe and have Lesson motors. They are an industrial saw. My personal opinion is they are a step above all the other's you've listed. I don't know much about the Harvey saws so I can't comment on it other than they are a Chinese company that makes tools for companies like Grizzly (and I think Powermatic) who are now selling tools under their own name. Rockler had a BX18 on the floor at their NH location when I was looking so I got to see it but it was sold so I couldn't take it home with me. Had it not been sold I probably would have left with it.

[Tom Trees]

After spending an hour reviewing BBB complaints and a number of customer service horror stories I'd cross off any bandsaw that starts with an "L".

Big Bill Broonzy? :cool:
Customer service is for those whom expect their machine to break down.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

460484
460486

I made a decision matrix to help pick a band saw. I put a couple of the Grizzly models in as well as the Rikon. Interestingly, the Gizzly 21" showed up at the top of my list no matter how I did the ratings. I guess this is why Grizzly is a popular choice. They do provide a good value. My experience with them leads me to look for a "higher quality" but without the ability to lay hands on any of the units makes it hard to asses this aspect. I have only find good comments about Harvey although fairly sparse as well. I want to give the Harvey a try but it is one of the smaller units on my list and you know bigger is better ;-).

My current bandsaw is in the matrix and as expected scores quite low but I know the flaws with it so I'm sure my bias shows up. After reviewing all the machines on the market that I could find (including some not included in the matrix), my bandsaw does have some good specifications and I could do much worse. Interestingly, my saw is built with a single casting and has a lot of weight making it rigid and low vibration. I've decided to keep my old bandsaw and add the new one. This will cost me a reasonable amount more because at a minimum I'll be upgrading the guides but that will give me one to keep a small blade on and one to keep a larger blade.

[Tom Trees]

I can't say I'd disagree with your decision matrix. if buying new.
A 270kg 21" saw with seemingly compact frame and big table, with rack and pinion, quick release lever (is there a switch, maybe a non issue there, switches are likely cheap)
Does it get any better?

A 20" Centauro of some description might better it used, the guides would be much nicer if you want that feel of "quality"
Not having actually put a blade on a Centauro, it looks like you can nestle it into the retracted telescopic guard without too much of a fight.
My larger ACM machine has a nice hinged cover and is soo much nicer than on the Far Eastern 20" I had before, the same as on that griz.

(Some) of the other 20" machines from Italy are a bit lighter duty at around 200kg for bog standard ACM, if you can find one used, as
the newer 20 inchers are actually 540mm anymore (in Europe anyway)
Still likely great for one who wants an upgrade
Your paying for those GL456 guides, (which some don't like, I can't understand why, standard size mounting shaft, FYI)
and the heavy screw for tensioning, likely a good bit heavier duty on the Centauro/Minimax

What is the negative in getting a saw like this, (say if a nice one came up handy like a nice ACM/older Italian Felder/Aggazani/Laguna LT series/ or slightly heavier SNAC 540 series like Bridgewood, Centauro/Minimax I think heavier again.
You might have to spend a tiny bit more effort in tracking your blade with the flat tires (should you sell the other)
The time lost would likely be saved with the much nicer guides than on the Eastern machine though.

If I was to nit pick on the 21" machine, one could say the guides and the tension screw could be a bit posher.
The screws probably sound for 3/4" blades though, but those guides look troublesome to me.
That combined with the blade guard might be an irritant for some,

Maybe I've just been a bit spoilt with the nicer guides that absolutely ooze quality, which have never needed cleaning
(well I can speak for the thrust guide, as my side rollers need to be replaced and not cheap from scottandsargeant, or Conway saw, so are retracted)

Can they be swapped out I wonder or does the Grizz have a different size to the Italian machines

[Alex Zeller]

Welcome to price creep. If you want to stay under $3k you're looking at the Laguna or Grizzly. Rikon does have a saw, just not the one you listed, that would also come in under $3k. I like the Powermatic's switch on the detension lever but the Grizzly has a key switch so I have a magnet next to the lever. When I take the tension off I take the key out and stick the ring to the magnet. I can't believe how much the prices have gone up in 2 years. All in both the G0514X2 and the BX18 were under $2k.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

I started this thread due to the “loose” construction of my Grizzly bandsaw and trying to understand if buying new would fix these issues. This makes Grizzly a very questionable choice.

Each time I find a review of the Powermatic it appears to be a solid construction even though it is one of the smaller saws I’ve looked at. I can purchase it through my local Woodcraft which is another good aspect. I thought the ~$2k budget would get me a quality replacement. That price creep appears to have become a price sprint unfortunately and I’m well over $3k now.

The Harvey is close to the same cost as the Powermatic and it is a bit of an unknown.

Laguna looks like a decent machine but I see way too many dissatisfied customers.

I think I’m going to go with the Powermatic PM1500.

[Charles Coolidge]

I started this thread due to the “loose” construction of my Grizzly bandsaw and trying to understand if buying new would fix these issues. This makes Grizzly a very questionable choice.

Each time I find a review of the Powermatic it appears to be a solid construction even though it is one of the smaller saws I’ve looked at. I can purchase it through my local Woodcraft which is another good aspect. I thought the ~$2k budget would get me a quality replacement. That price creep appears to have become a price sprint unfortunately and I’m well over $3k now.

The Harvey is close to the same cost as the Powermatic and it is a bit of an unknown.

Laguna looks like a decent machine but I see way too many dissatisfied customers.

I think I’m going to go with the Powermatic PM1500.

Eric as you know I purchased the Powermatic PM1500. I finished assembling it the other day, I'll share a few thoughts.

1. Immediately check the table for flatness upon arrival. Standing in front of the saw mine was high in the center and sloped down both left and right for a total .021 inch out of flat. The board teeter tottered on the center high area easily spinning on the high center making for an unsafe tool imo. Front to back was dead flat on the left side but the rear of the table started sloping down and away as you near the center. First about 1 inch of slope in from the edge of the table growing to about 2 inches of slope over on the right side. About .010 low so not as severe or problematic as the left to right high center but thought I would note this. Powermatic CS agreed to replace the table no problem.

2. I set the saw down onto (sunk into) a ShopFox mobile base in a brilliant example of home shop precision engineering complete with stainless steel bolts and lock nuts. As I was patting myself on the back I noticed the lower door won't open it bangs into the ShopFox mobile base rail DOH!! To clear both the ShopFox mobile base rail AND the bolt heads from the nearby caster which are even higher I'll need to put a 1.5 to 1.75 inch slab of wood down into the mobile base to raise the saw up so the door clears.

3. There are no assembly instructions, zero. The manual shows how to adjust various things on the saw but as for assembly there's a page that shows what's included and that's it. Fortunately the only real assembly steps are the fence rail and fence, and how to loosen the table which comes tilted up max tilt. They had over tightened a nut underneath for shipping no doubt. But the table wouldn't move until I loosened it and it needs to be adjusted snug but loose enough for the table to tilt with the little rack and pinion knob. Speaking of assembling the fence the plastic caps that are supposed to be tapped into the end of the rail tube are so small the just fall out. There's no pressing or tapping them in. I attempted to hold them in place with a dab of silicone but already bumped one and it fell off. I know that Powermatic knows that this is a problem, it bugs me they ship it knowing this. The fence rail bracket to table and fence rail tube to fence rail bracket fit is quite loose and sloppy. Plan on some jiggering back and forth during assembly to get the fence parallel with the blade. I elected to get the fence tube and bracket as close to parallel as possible, then made the final adjusting using the adjustment screws on the T fence.

Nothing further at this time. I'm awaiting the new table top before installing the 3/4 carbide tipped blade and testing it out. The saw is beautifully finished it has that going for it. There's no bubbled up flaking off paint (cough Grizzly cough) anywhere.

[Tom Trees]

I hope you have some cheaper blades to try out first before that expensive carbide.
I'd reckon it takes 5 goes of installing a blade before you can say that you could be in any way fimiliar with the machine.
Just to find out plenty of things like where it likes to hold a blade loosely when installing...
The best hand positions to install blade, i.e having to bend it in some shape to get into the table slot or clear something.
A nice chance for the blade to catch on likely the lower guide
The gudepost, where is the easiest position to change a blade from.
And some more stuff that doesn't come to mind, which might not be so obvious with your table off.

Oh and beware of Murphy's law
You stand a better chance of hitting some metal and totalling your blade when its brand new.
If you're setting up the machine, and testing on scraps, then you'd better have a metal detector wand hung on wall beside the machine.


Good luck
Tom

[Charles Coolidge]

None of that will happen I'm a setup ninja. And I have multiple metal detectors including a machine that can detect tiny flecks of metal. I use them to dig pounds of gold and silver on ocean beaches.

[Mike King]

For the money you are looking to spend, you'd be a lot better off, IMO, if you bought a used industrial machine. Bandsaws are simple machines and even if you have to do some maintenance (replace the bearings or tension spring) or have to buy a vfd to drive a three phase motor, you will have a much better machine.

Mike

[Eric Arnsdorff]

For the money you are looking to spend, you'd be a lot better off, IMO, if you bought a used industrial machine. Bandsaws are simple machines and even if you have to do some maintenance (replace the bearings or tension spring) or have to buy a vfd to drive a three phase motor, you will have a much better machine.

Mike

Mike I'd love to buy a 3 phase bandsaw and put a VFD on it. That is definitely my preference. A nice soft start and complete control over the speed for better cuts (I have a great deal of experience with VFDs so technically that isn't an issue). I'd go for that option but I'm not finding any in my search currently (I'm willing to drive 4-6 hours if a good saw could be found). I have found some very large and old machines that are bigger than the space I'm willing to give up in my small shop and appear to need a good deal of work to clean up and get in good order. Granted I'm open to a decent size saw so ~21" is definitely in scope.

I am going Monday to look at a used Laguna LT18 which has a resaw feeder along with a taller resaw fence, mobility kit and some blades. It is priced a little less than my final choices for a new machine. So it may be a good option for me. My fallback if this doesn't pan out is the Powermatic with the Rikon 18" Pro being next.

As an interesting find during my search for what to look for in a bandsaw, I came across this video which is packed with good information about using the bandsaw. He explains clearly with great visuals and helps to understand what is truly needed for the cutting process versus reading all the marketing hype...
https://youtu.be/fK9m5PadmiI

[Tom Trees]

I do hope Matthias finds some nice cast wheels and just cannot resist fabricating a metal saw for himself.:)
He likely wouldn't have that issue with the hook tooth blades.

Regarding marketing hype on similar machines,
you can't argue with the figures like weight, and looking at the tension screw/carriage.

All else being equal, since the Far Eastern machines seem to be catching up with the Italian's... nearly
I suppose with a cheaper machine, you still may be taking a bit of risk...
(if not changing those guides anyways...which someone might do if they are deeming some bell or whistle to be a must have)

Vs something which might have replaceable, but worn out parts, like guides for example.
You could get by for a mighty long time without anything but a single thrust guide, because you have beam tension of a suitable blade on your side.

Not sure if you could do the same with crowned tires?
(crowned tires on something like any commonly found 20" machine made today, that is)

[Eric Arnsdorff]

Tom I didn't catch on to your comments about Matthias at first. That's funny. I scanned a few of his videos and he seems to make a lot of his own tools. Those wooden bandsaw wheels are interesting but I think I stay on this side of the industrial revolution. But you have to give him credit on his explanation.

I definitely agree solid construction wins over marketing hype and gimmicks. It takes a bit of work to wade through the marketing and gimmicks especially when you can't see any of them first hand. You mentioned the tensioning mechanism. I'd love to be able to see inside each of the options to find the one with solid mechanisms, bearings, etc. I think the Powermatic has all the solid construction even if it is made overseas these days.

I'm not up on the crowned versus flat feature. I know I've used the crowned feature in my professional life for an entirely different purpose (large, wide essentially rubber conveyor belt). My current bandsaw doesn't have crowned tires (at least if it is crowned it isn't much of a crown). I'm not certain of the need for this in my bandsaw. I'd love more insight into this feature.

[Tom Trees]

Quoting you this way Eric, as I can't make head nor tail why the posts can get hidden...

"I'm not up on the crowned versus flat feature"

I can't say about the 20" lemon machine I had before my present Italian saw (which has flat tires)
But from what I've seen, if you have crowned tires, you need to have the thrust closer, and it gets used nearly all the time, which is annoying if
a bad design, as it will be noisy and need maintenance...
vs a hefty saw with flat tires, the thrust can be set well away from the blade if one liked, noise and wear is why,
and even if set close, will not really need it.

Curious to see if those with a decent 20" machine with crowned tires will handle that.
Thanks
Tom

[Eric Arnsdorff]

I’ve found an Italian Laguna LT18 with a feeder and some blades (including the mobility kit) for about the price of the Powermatic PM1800 or Rikon 10-347 new. I wasn’t looking for a feeder and it increases the cost for the used but good condition machine.
Laguna had fallen off my list because I had seen too many bad reviews along with the LT18 (now Asian made like all the others) being priced much higher.
I thought I’d put this out there to see what opinions may be expressed about the saw.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I saw that Laguna LT18 when it popped up for sale. It looks to be in excellent condition, though the price is a little more than what I’d want to pay but I tend to hunt for bargains. I don’t recognize that particular feeder so I’m not quite sure how to value it. I have seen comatic feeders for bandsaws that are very nice.

Is it close enough to you to go by and check it out without feeling obligated to drag it home with you?

I’ve spent a lot of hours using an older (early 2000s era) LT18 in a professional shop and it’s a good saw. That one appears to be newer with a larger motor and better fence. I would take an LT18 all day and twice on Sunday compared to the new Asian imports you’ve been considering previously in this thread.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

I saw that Laguna LT18 when it popped up for sale. It looks to be in excellent condition, though the price is a little more than what I’d want to pay but I tend to hunt for bargains. I don’t recognize that particular feeder so I’m not quite sure how to value it. I have seen comatic feeders for bandsaws that are very nice.

Is it close enough to you to go by and check it out without feeling obligated to drag it home with you?

I’ve spent a lot of hours using an older (early 2000s era) LT18 in a professional shop and it’s a good saw. That one appears to be newer with a larger motor and better fence. I would take an LT18 all day and twice on Sunday compared to the new Asian imports you’ve been considering previously in this thread.

Phillip you must’ve seen the same one I did. I went to see it today. It is a 2006 LT18 made in Italy (at least assembled enough to claim that). It appears to be in good condition with the add on resale fence. The feeder says Laguna but appears to be exactly the same as the Comatic AF10.

It only has a few minor issues. I wasn’t really looking for a feeder and seems to be more specifically for re-sawing which I want it to do re-sawing but also other general use. It’s the only one I’ve been able to see other than my old Grizzly.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

I’ve found a 20” Rockwell 28-3X0 bandsaw (I’m guessing around ‘70’s-‘80’s vintage). It’s a fair drive but I’m considering going to look at it.
The little I’ve looked up on this saw seems to bring up happy owners. I wasn’t planning a rebuild but I’m considering it now. I’d put a VFD and other upgrades on it.
It has one unexpected design element and that is aluminum wheels. I don’t know that it is a negative but thought I’d put the question here if anyone knows of any functional advantage or disadvantage of the aluminum wheels?

I understand the weight and angular momentum aspect but I don’t really know that it creates any difference in actual saw function other than it would be easier to start and stop. So that actually seems like an advantage. Any input on this is appreciated.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

463072463073463074463075463076463077463078463079

My search for another bandsaw ended this weekend with a result completely unexpected by me.
I bought a 24" SCM S600P (MM24) bandsaw from a member here - Richard Melton. It was in excellent condition.
It is also much larger than what I started out looking for. It dwarfs my old 16" bandsaw, which was a decent sized saw. I know there are much larger ones out there but this 24" is a beast.
I've completely went through it (including taking the motor and wheels off to move it in my shop). It is very well built.
I'm looking forward to using it for many years to come.
And thanks tons to Ritch, he's a terrific fellow woodworker!!

[Matthew Hills]

How did you get it upright? I had difficulty doing it by myself with the smaller, s400.

Looks like you're going to have to relocate your ceiling air filter.
Includes zambus casters... nice.

Matt

[Eric Arnsdorff]

How did you get it upright? I had difficulty doing it by myself with the smaller, s400.

Looks like you're going to have to relocate your ceiling air filter.
Includes zambus casters... nice.

Matt

Matt laying it down and standing it up was quite a chore. I removed all the heavy parts from the saw.

Once I had it in my shop I decided I could lift it and manually just picked up one end. I used a board on the floor to the wall to keep the bottom from sliding. Once I had it above the tipping point I had my wife and daughter use a 2x4 on each side to help me slowly lower it the remaining distance to the floor.

It took most of my Saturday to lay it down, move it in, and stand it up.

Ritch had the Zambus casters on it and it rolls easily. That is very nice. He also had several blades including a 1” carbide tooth blade. Another bonus is he included a Starrett blade tension gauge as well. I was very happy with the purchase!

I will be relocating my air filter and my lights in that area. It’s quite a lot of work for my little shop but I’m excited about my upgrade!

[Jim Becker]

THAT...is a happy ending!!! Congrats on getting a great machine for your shop.

[Alan Lightstone]

Nice ending to the story, Eric. I'm sure you'll love the MM24. What an upgrade. Congrats!!!

[Eric Arnsdorff]

Thanks Alan and Jim!
Now my wife expects me to get more done...
She doesn't enjoy the equipment purchasing experience as much as I do ;-).

[Erik Loza]

Nice score: They literally don't make them like that any more. The googley eyes, LOL. I would pick up a spare set of tires from Parts Pronto when you can.

Erik

[Tom Trees]

Congrats on the saw :)
Best of luck with it Eric

Tom

[Eric Arnsdorff]

Thanks Tom and Erik!
@Erik - Do you know something about spares or the tires that I may need to know?
I'll call tomorrow and order a set of tires and a brake.

[Ronald Blue]

Definitely looks like a beast of a saw in everyway. Are you going to start processing your own saw logs now? Enjoy and I look forward to seeing an update when you are all set up and slicing through wood. Great score indeed.

[Erik Loza]

Thanks Tom and Erik!
@Erik - Do you know something about spares or the tires that I may need to know?
I'll call tomorrow and order a set of tires and a brake.

Eric, no secrets. Just that there is (at least for now) no other source for Centauro parts than SCM Group and they no longer carry Centauro, so getting spare parts might be a thing in the future. Centauro tires (I never have actually worn out a brake shoe but that's not a bad idea) are the only think I can think of that are truly proprietary. Everything else, aside from major structural parts, you ought to be able to source out pretty easily.

Erik

[Mike King]

Great result! Personally, I think too many folk go to buy new when they could find used industrial quality equipment in reasonable shape for far less than buying less capable equipment new. Congrats on your purchase!

Mike

[Greg Quenneville]

Man, I am happy for you. I was hoping that you’d be able to find a saw of that caliber. I am on my third restored 24” Italian saw and only used a 14” hobby saw briefly 40 years ago. You should never have any issues with tracking, tension or vibration with a saw like that. The size will stop being daunting soon, then you’ll want a 30” Tannewitz.

[Jonathan Jung]

I have the exact same saw, the 1073, as well as a G0513X2. I believe I can give some good advice here.

The 1073 is the same year as yours and is setup for pattern making with a sharp 1/4" blade It will easily cut 6" thick walnut, follow a curve, and come out dead square and very straight.

The G0513X2 is 2 years old and is setup for resaw with a 1/2" Lennox Tri Master. Prior to having the 1073, I used this saw for everything. But I got tired of changing blades 5 times a day.

So here's my experience. The newer saw is if anything built of lesser quality. The fit and fitment is not very good. It works fine, but believe me, it will get upgraded at some point. I've had issues with the fence, with the tensioner bending, had to replace the tires after a year, guide bearings, etc. The older 1073 is used almost every day and I don't have any qualms with it other than the throat plate sets too low. It would be nice to have Carter guides on it too, but really it's a great little saw with lots of power.

I've looked at the Powermatics, Lagunas, Deltas, and was not impressed. No better in any way than the 1073 or 0513X2

If you want to upgrade beyond the build quality of these newer imported machines - and I would lump together Jet, Delta, Grizzly, Powermatic, and Laguna - then you really need to jump up to an italian machine or get an older American machine.

[Tai Fu]

If you want to upgrade your bandsaw, buy one with bigger wheel. Bigger wheel = more flexibility, less blade breakage, better blade selection, ability to use cheaper blade, better stability.

As for bearing guides, why bother? I never liked them and had bearing fail on me during a resaw... a block of wood works very well as a blade guide. Even some bandsaw just has a piece of mild steel with a slot cut into it as a blade guide.

As for great cuts... well saw with bigger wheel allows you to use better blade and thus better cut quality, but a bandsaw that cuts well in my opinion, absent using expensive carbide blades, you just don't get good cut quality anyhow as a blade that cuts properly will have sets, and the set somehow makes a rough but straight cut.

So look at the blade before looking at anything else. As for the saw vibrating, well every bandsaw I seen all vibrates to some extent... it's just the nature of the beast...

I'd say keep it and tune it up, or buy a saw with a bigger wheel. You really should buy a saw with as big of a wheel as the footprint of the saw will take, as anything up to and including 26" bandsaw and below take up the exact same amount of floor space! But the usability of the saw differs in significant ways! Never get a saw with a smaller wheel unless the saw is dedicated for light cuts (slightly easier blade changes).

I bought a 14" steel frame saw and the blade kept breaking, especially when resawing. A 14" will do light cuts very well but asking it to do heavy cuts is asking for trouble. And you'd spend over 1000 in Carter products (not saying they're bad products) to improve it.. when you could have just taken that money and bought a bigger saw. Using a large saw for light cuts is a pain, but doable. And you can ask it to make heavy cuts.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

If you want to upgrade your bandsaw, buy one with bigger wheel. Bigger wheel = more flexibility, less blade breakage, better blade selection, ability to use cheaper blade, better stability.

As for bearing guides, why bother? I never liked them and had bearing fail on me during a resaw... a block of wood works very well as a blade guide. Even some bandsaw just has a piece of mild steel with a slot cut into it as a blade guide.

As for great cuts... well saw with bigger wheel allows you to use better blade and thus better cut quality, but a bandsaw that cuts well in my opinion, absent using expensive carbide blades, you just don't get good cut quality anyhow as a blade that cuts properly will have sets, and the set somehow makes a rough but straight cut.

So look at the blade before looking at anything else. As for the saw vibrating, well every bandsaw I seen all vibrates to some extent... it's just the nature of the beast...

I'd say keep it and tune it up, or buy a saw with a bigger wheel. You really should buy a saw with as big of a wheel as the footprint of the saw will take, as anything up to and including 26" bandsaw and below take up the exact same amount of floor space! But the usability of the saw differs in significant ways! Never get a saw with a smaller wheel unless the saw is dedicated for light cuts (slightly easier blade changes).

I bought a 14" steel frame saw and the blade kept breaking, especially when resawing. A 14" will do light cuts very well but asking it to do heavy cuts is asking for trouble. And you'd spend over 1000 in Carter products (not saying they're bad products) to improve it.. when you could have just taken that money and bought a bigger saw. Using a large saw for light cuts is a pain, but doable. And you can ask it to make heavy cuts.
Tai Fu do you think I went big enough?
;-)
463325
463326

[Tai Fu]

I can't view pictures... seems I have to pay in order to view them.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

I can't view pictures... seems I have to pay in order to view them.

It's only a few bucks and well worth it.

[Tai Fu]

I just donated... not a lot of money but not something I'd want to do for every single forums I access (it gets very expensive if so).

That looks like a beast of a saw. Wonder how much it cost. How do you buy the saw from another private individual? Do you have to pick it up and hope your vehicle will hold it, or are there trucking companies who can do this?

I just got myself a 26" saw. It's a very old industrial machine, 3 phase and all that. Saw looks massive but the table has no miter gauge slot... It cuts through almost 12" of green Taiwan acacia like it's not even there, on a dull blade (though it didn't really cut straight as the blade didn't have any set, I had to fix that). My old 14" saw struggled to cut it (motor kept stalling).

[Charles Coolidge]

463072463073463074463075463076463077463078463079

My search for another bandsaw ended this weekend with a result completely unexpected by me.
I bought a 24" SCM S600P (MM24) bandsaw from a member here - Richard Melton. It was in excellent condition.
It is also much larger than what I started out looking for. It dwarfs my old 16" bandsaw, which was a decent sized saw. I know there are much larger ones out there but this 24" is a beast.
I've completely went through it (including taking the motor and wheels off to move it in my shop). It is very well built.
I'm looking forward to using it for many years to come.
And thanks tons to Ritch, he's a terrific fellow woodworker!!

It's so large the blade guard is telescoping. LOL Congrats that IS a beast!

[Tai Fu]

I actually need to find a way to add a blade guard to the new to me bandsaw. It does not have one... just a guide.