Smoked Another Router

[Steve Eure]

I started a major kitchen renovation back in Feb. of this year. After about 3 weeks into the build, I smoked my DW 618. This router was about 6 years old with minimal use. I opened it up and found the magnetic ring broken. Ordered the part and was back in business a week later. It lasted to the end of that week. The blasted thing caught on fire with my dust collector and shop vac running full of dust. Fortunately, I was able to put out the fire, clean out the dust bins, no worse for wear except a smoked router.
Went to the box store and bought another DW. Should have listened to the reviews. This router lasted less than 3 months with minimal use and it's toast also. I will take it back for a refund and exchange in the morning.
I will not buy another DW. What is your preferred router for a Rockler router table. It has to be in the 2-2 1/2 HP range to fit my setup. I am looking at the Bosch 1617. This router has good reviews. What is y;alls opinion on this machine?

[Richard Coers]

I'm getting close to 50 years of woodworking, and ran a custom woodworking business for 8 of those years. I have yet to burn out any router. My first router was a cheap Craftsman with way too much plastic in it. A piece of plastic failed, but was able to fix it with epoxy and some copper wire wrap. I have Porter-Cable routers that are at least 30 years old, and my main plunge routers are Elu before they were bought by Dewalt. The point to my story is that if you use the router like a shaper, load it too heavily, and use dull bits, you can burn them up. If you use a router like a router, take smart depth of cuts, blow out the motor once and a while, and watch the brushes, they last forever.

[Robert Hayward]

Answering your question, the 1617 has been a good router for me with no trouble.

[Alex Zeller]

I burnt up a Bosch because I was using it in a router table making raised panels out of PVC boards. The PVC dust got into the bearing. When putting the bit in the router would spin freely but as the bearing heated up the PVC turned into a glue like liquid and increased the load. Being in a table with a dust collector connected to it by the time I realized something was wrong it was too late to save. For fun I tool it apart and found the bearing and loads of PVC dust throughout the router. It was an old one and I was using it for something I don't think it was made for so I can't complain.

[Orlando Gonzalez]

....... if you use the router like a shaper, load it too heavily, and use dull bits, you can burn them up. If you use a router like a router, take smart depth of cuts, blow out the motor once and a while, and watch the brushes, they last forever.

I totally agree with what Richard says. Routers are not shapers and thus cannot handle the load that the shaper can. I have had my DW618, DW621, DW625, PC690n and PC 890 for over 15 years and they're still going strong. I take small depth of cuts in increments until I reach the desired depth. If I'm going to be making a significant amount of cuts I use my router table with the 3-1/2hp Milwaukee 5625 mounted on it and I still make cut in small increments until I reach the desired depth or width.

[William Hodge]

What were you doing with the routers when the smoke came out?

[Curt Harms]

I'd also consider Milwaukee. There's no chance you could fit a 3+ h.p. router in your existing setup? Years ago Hitachi was a favorite for table use. I don't know where they're at today. Big Sky tools has some very good deals on Hitachi 3+ h.p. routers on occasion. Triton routers seem to be designed with table use in mind but I've recently seen some negative durability reports on Triton.

[George Yetka]

The PC I have in my table has been going well for 4 years or so no issues. (aside from me accidently cutting throught the cord with a jigsaw when I was building a dust box around it).
The festool stuff is very nice, the 1400 has been running strong for me for 5 years. Alot of nice features but the price point is a bit ridiculous

[Mike Stelts]

I burned up a large PC router about 20 years ago. The cause seemed to be powering it through a long 16AWG extension cord.

[Frank Pratt]

That many burnouts would indicate overworking the router. You need a big boy, like a Milwaukee 5625.

[Edwin Santos]

Does your router table have enough air flow?

The only time I have burned out a router was when I had a Bosch 1617 installed in my enclosed cabinet style router table. Not knowing any better, I added a port for below table dust collection, and the effect was to create a vacuum inside the space where the router hung. The table opening space around the bit was not sufficient to let in enough air to compensate for the dust vacuum. The lack of make-up air caused the router to overheat and the bearing burned out.
The solution was to drill some large holes in the front access door of the cabinet to allow make-up air.

I do not know if your set up might be creating the same problem for you, but I thought I'd share my story in case it helps.

Edwin

[Dave Sabo]

Lots of long term 618 users out there. I’m not aware of any trend that they are prone to smoking - like Festool’s Kapex miter saw.

Plenty of happy users of the 1617, but there are also some unhappy ones too.

I’d check the root cause of the failure as others have suggested.

[Thomas Colson]

Two things:
I came close to smoking my 1617 last night. Was doing raised panels, and 50 of them, so I figured I could do them in two passes. Nope. Poor thing got so hot I couldn't touch it. Had to go back to the hours-long 3 or 4 passes for raised panels. I'm happy with the Bosch but I personally feel it is a bit underpowered compared to a PC of the same size.
I have noticed that Dewalt has followed Ryobi in terms of quality last few years. Borrowed a buddies DW biscuit jointer, loved it, bought the same one....but then I didn't. The solid steel fence has been replaced with some flimsy aluminum/magnesium afterthought, but the price went up 30$. I'm better off using noodles the keep panel parts aligned during glue up then I am that DW piece of junk, which, BTW, requires I set the depth to "10" when I'm using 20 biscuits and vice-versa. Same with my Recip saw. Had a 20 year old DW recip saw finally die on me, bought another one 3 years ago, didn't last 6 months.

[Charles Lent]

I have 14 routers of various better brands and have never let the magic smoke out of any of them. Those who treat their tools properly use the right tool for the job and maintain them with adequate air flow and maintenance. Our better tools last our lifetime. Those who punish their tools by lack of air flow and overloading them just keep destroying their tools and complaining about them. I own three DW618 routers plus other sizes of DeWalt and other brands. They all work well, but some do certain things better than others, and that's why I have so many routers. A router is not designed for continuous heavy duty use. If you need to work it that hard you should maybe get a shaper with a 5 hp induction motor, but then if you continue to treat your tools like that you will probably kill it too.

Charley

[Warren Lake]

no idea how many I have one time over 20 in a one man shop with set ups that remained on all of them. No router table though one was in a shaper. Smaller Porter rattle trap. I burned out makita lam trimmers till I got porter cables.

Ive got four of the largest porter cables and while ive read enough bad about them, for me they turned out massive work being left on for hours at a time. Customer of over 5 years told me I had to have CNC to do their work, I never told them I didnt. They did tons of hogging work and still have original bearings in all of them. Guess I lucked out compared to others. To me they look like a power tool not a bumble bee.

[Tom Henderson2]

I started a major kitchen renovation back in Feb. of this year. After about 3 weeks into the build, I smoked my DW 618. This router was about 6 years old with minimal use. I opened it up and found the magnetic ring broken. Ordered the part and was back in business a week later. It lasted to the end of that week. The blasted thing caught on fire with my dust collector and shop vac running full of dust. Fortunately, I was able to put out the fire, clean out the dust bins, no worse for wear except a smoked router.
Went to the box store and bought another DW. Should have listened to the reviews. This router lasted less than 3 months with minimal use and it's toast also. I will take it back for a refund and exchange in the morning.
I will not buy another DW. What is your preferred router for a Rockler router table. It has to be in the 2-2 1/2 HP range to fit my setup. I am looking at the Bosch 1617. This router has good reviews. What is y;alls opinion on this machine?


I think the issue here is the dust getting down into the guts of the machine and mucking it up. The failure is the magnetic ring, which is part of the speed control.

I've read other users have similar issues when using the DW upside down in the table...

So I don't think this is due to overworkign the router; it is a design shortcoming for this model.

My suggestion is one of the Milwaukees...

[Jim Dwight]

I own no DW routers but have a DeWalt plunge router on my wish list. The one that used to be an Elu.

I used a Ryobi R500 plunge router motor on my router table for about 20 years. The bottom bearing finally failed and melted the case. So it got replaced with the big PC. I am very happy with this router for router table use. I got the fixed base with it too but it so huge I doubt I will ever use it hand held. It has noticably better power. The Ryobi was rated 13.3 amps and the PC is only rated at 15 amps but the difference seems significantly bigger than that.

I have two PC690s which I have had for decades too. I used one for awhile in a router table setup in the extension table of my table saw. It functioned fine but required 3 or 4 cuts to raise panels. It would do the cope and stick cuts for doors in one pass but seemed to be stressed. I had dust collection coming out of the bottom of the box around the router and I decided that was a bad idea. If you pull from the bottom of the router this way you are fighting the cooling fan of the router reducing airflow through the router causing it to heat up.

So my router table has a 4 inch hose coming through the back and extending to the area of the collet of the router. So it helps the motor get more airflow, not less. There is an air intake at the bottom of the cabinet the router is in. There is also a 2.5 inch hose to the fence. That also helps move air through the router.

[Jim Becker]

My DW618 has been utterly reliable from day one. It's the only non-Festool router I've keep in my shop. But I don't use it in the table. I like a heavier, beefier more powerful 15 amp motor for that task. DW618 and similar 12 amp router motors from Bosch and others are the bee's knees for hand-held work but can be used for "light duty" table work for sure, however..

[Mel Fulks]

Agree with Warren. Some don’t like big PCs because they think they are too heavy, and they might be for their routine work. They are not
for 1/4 inch round overs , they are for making wood fly out of your way.

[Bohdan Drozdowskyj]

The DW618 2 1/2 HP rating must have originated in the marketing department, at 15A it is only drawing 1 3/4 HP worth of electricity and if you allow for efficiency losses that means that it is a 1 to 1 1/2 HP router.
If you push it hard smoke is inevitable. :D

[Osvaldo Cristo]

[...]
I am looking at the Bosch 1617. This router has good reviews. What is y;alls opinion on this machine?


Since many moons ago I maintained two routers: one small and one "big".

On the 1980s I purchased a Hitachi big router (TR12, I believe) and it served me very well for more than 2 decades when I decided to go to a newer one including variable speed as my Hitachi had no thing like that and I missed it for bigger bits.

I went to Bosch GFF 1600CE, at 1,600 W. It is a monster that never gave reasons to regret the purchase - actually, some time after that purchase, I bought another one just to have a pair of similar routers, a welcome resource for some jobs when you need different router bits or set up´s for an application. In the USA it is marketed with another model name:

MRP23EVS | 2.3 HP Electronic Plunge-Base Router | Bosch Power Tools (boschtools.com) (https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/plunge-routers-mrp23evs-34700-p/) - that is the plunge model, the "autolift" traditional base is also available

It is a great router for hand held uses as the on/off switch is on the handle and it has an embedded LED illumination, but you need a trick to use it in a lift base. When at a router table, I prefer to use that router with its "traditional" fixed base directly without a router lift base as that base can be fine adjusted by bottom - it is like an embedded router lift.

[Warren Lake]

hey Mel

I like the stuff with weight, router is two hands most of the time weight makes no difference, probably helps at times.

Rebuilding a second roof found my middle aged worm drive was feeling a bit heavy for one arm stuff. Hmm, getting older so got the latest one that was lighter. Its fine with one arm. The very original Black and Decker one that the old guy left me me was demoted to cutting concrete. that one is seriously heavy. both will outlast the newer light one but still reach for it the most for the one hand thing.

The porter cables served me well and did tons of work and lots was heavy work.

[Jack Frederick]

Edwin brings up an interesting point on the DC in a router table. I’m using the Sawstop router table and have their 2’ DC at their fence and I put a 4’ connection on the lower back of my enclosure. I’m using the 7539 (?). The Big 3 1/4 PC plunge in the table. What are your views on DC locations. I’ve inspected my router and find no accumulation on it, but I think I will run a couple experiments on DC suction location.

[Meryl Logue]

Tough crowd.

[Jim Dwight]

Jack,

When I had a router table setup in the extension wing of my table saw I did exactly what you describe but I used a PC 690 router. I thought the router was getting too hot. The DC is trying to pull air from the collet to the top of the router while the router fan is trying to push air from the top of the router to the collet. So they fight each other. In my current router table I have the 4 inch pulling from the collet area (and I use the big PC motor). That way the DC is working with the router fan to move air through the router motor.

Another advantage would be dust. Pulling from the bottom moved dust past and potentially through the router. Pulling from the collet area help to keep dust out of the motor.

My router table has a home made lift where the router rides in a wooden carriage that pretty much fills the cavity of the router table for the motor. So it was not hard to put a port on the top of the carriage for the dust port. 4 inch flex comes in the back and hooks up to the port. It Ys outside the table for the 2.5 inch hose to the fence. If I was to do this on a box type enclosure I think I would put the dust port on the side of the box at the top. That is not as good but I think it is better than the bottom.

The router motors fan may be powerful enough to keep dust out, I don't know, but it just makes sense to me to have both airflows going the same direction (as much as possible).

[Ray Selinger]

As just a DIYer I have worn out a Craftsman Super Router. The arbor got too sloppy. The replacement is the New model Porter Cable 690, really a cheaper DeWalt. Even just using it as 1/4" table router, all it's good for, it gets suspiciously warm. I wouldn't bet on it lasting. I have Bosch 1617 and a DeWalt 625. The 1617 I use as a hand held, it's nice and light. The 625 , a yellow Elu ,is a monster . A truly heavy duty plunge router.

[Mark Wooden]

Agree with all here about trying to use a router as a shaper- horsepower ratings are really pretty inflated and the small motors and shafts do not have the tourque and momentum of a shaper of the same HP. I have several routers, from laminate trimmers to a PC 75362 & an Elu 3 hp plunge, most over twenty years old and have never burned one up and only replaced the bearings in my Bosch 1604 because I was doing a lot of stairs. A router table will let you overtax a router pretty easily
Anyway, I've been very pleased with the performance and durability of my Bosch and PC routers, but they're US made. I've no experience with the newer models. I would also recommend at leats 2-1/2 hp, 3-1/4 is better, sounds like you need it.
And to all raising panels with a router, first, my condolences- and it will go much easier on you and your tools if you waste most of the hips off the panels with a table or band saw first; I often still do it when raising panels on the shaper- I get nice smooth shear cuts, clean straight hips