Lie-Nielsen rabbet block plane?

[Meryl Logue]

I WAS thinking of buying a Lie-Nielsen rabbet block to use in tenon cleanup and regular block plane stuff. I happened to wander into the classifieds section and one just sold. The seller @Mike Henderson indicated it didn’t work well as a block plane. It sounds like I’m back to plan A of a LA block and a router plane, both from LV.

Other folks put any miles on one of these? It was a 60 1/2.

[Jeff Roltgen]

I have that Lie Nielsen, and I love it. Use it for general block plane work, and have used it to successfully tune tenons as well. Also have the Lee Valley router plane, and it is mighty handy for finding any odd high-spots on the cheeks of tenons and leveling dado bottoms. They both combine to make tenon tuning very breezy, and dare I say, a pleasant experience.

Surprised to hear such a dismissive assessment regarding the LN 60 1/2.
I'd buy another one in a heartbeat if I ever lost it.

Jeff

[Mike Henderson]

Well, I said it didn't work well - for me - as a block plane. Others may have a different experience.

I also used to get finger cuts on the exposed blade. Maybe I'm clumsy.

Anyway, I bought some Stanley 65 knuckle joint low angle block planes and prefer those for general work. I have a LV shoulder plane that I use on tenons.

Mike

[Meryl Logue]

Thank you both. Such different experiences!

At this point I’m buying as I get ready to make a workbench. I lucked in to five 4x5 beams 14’ long from about 5 or 6 decades ago. I’ll get a full 3 1/2 x 4 out of them as glue-ready sticks. I built a prototype of milled 2x4 using through tenons with furniture nuts for the stretchers. I have to be able to break it down at some point, so I’ll have quite a few m&t work. Hence the rabbet-block.

[Rob Luter]

Santa brought me a LN Rabbet Block Plane this past christmas. While I've not used it a lot, it works well. Getting the cutter set just right is a little fussier than on my standard LV 60 1/2, but once dialed in it does what it's supposed to. I use a number of different methods for tenon cheek cleanup based on the size of the work. The Rabbet Block Plane lends itself to larger tenons. You can also use a standard block plane and trim the area immediately adjacent to the shoulder with a chisel or router plane. I usually undercut this area a bit anyway.

[Frederick Skelly]

I have that plane and use it for tenons and other work. It works fiine for me.
Like Mike H, I do occasionally get finger cuts on the exposed bade.

[Ralph Boumenot]

I bought that block plane from Mike and I have no problems with it. Mike also said that he didn't use it much. I have both LN 60 1/2 blockplanes along with the #9 and the LN 102 and 103 blockplanes. I use them all the time so it took me no time at all to get acquainted with it.

[Derek Cohen]

I do not recommend the LN Rabbet Block Plane as a general block plane. I have one and really like it, but for getting into corners, commonly inside drawer cases.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinet12_html_m62bc7c59.jpg

I do not use the plane on tenon cheeks - it is better than a wide shoulder plane, but both are difficult to control when taking off precise amounts of waste. A router plane is better in this regard, or a wide chisel or rasp.

As a general purpose block plane, one has to contend with blade edges exposed at both sides. Not only are these dangerous to humans, but also apt to slice up furniture unwittingly.

A better choice from LN is their #60 1/2, which has an adjustable mouth, or their #102, a sweet user.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Meryl Logue]

Santa brought me a LN Rabbet Block Plane this past christmas. While I've not used it a lot, it works well. Getting the cutter set just right is a little fussier than on my standard LV 60 1/2, but once dialed in it does what it's supposed to. I use a number of different methods for tenon cheek cleanup based on the size of the work. The Rabbet Block Plane lends itself to larger tenons. You can also use a standard block plane and trim the area immediately adjacent to the shoulder with a chisel or router plane. I usually undercut this area a bit anyway.

That’s how I did my prototype. But my current block plane is a $20 HD Buck. As tuned as it can be, given how badly off-kilter it was cast.

That convinced me I need a decent block plane, a router plane, shoulder plane, #6, #4, and a ton of $$$. So this is how I’m hoping to clean up 1” tenons and get a block plane to boot, since the ton of $$$ is more like 1/2$.

This is for my first workbench, btw. True newbie here!

[Meryl Logue]

Hmm… Derek you definitely have paused me.

Maybe I should reframe my question: I am preparing to build an old-growth Doug fir workbench (I salvaged a bunch of beams from a dumpster). I’m planning to use 1” through tenons for the base construction. Some bolted with a furniture nut and some glued. I will need to disassemble it one day, or the teams that shovel my corpse out will.

1) I should use [ ] for making the tenons and refining their fit.

2) I should use [ ] for making the mortice.

I have a $20 Buck block plane; a 1960s Craftsman #5 plane, fairly tuned but I’m learning from here and others how to dial it in; a 1/4” pigsticker; a set of Ashley Iles bench chisels to 1”; an early set of cheaper Bailey chisels sharpened up; the usual power tools (TS, bandsaw, planer, jointer, etc. all bought used and I’ve restored them).

I am prepared to spend some for tools because they + the experience will last a very long time for me. I’m restoring an old house myself and that’s how I do it… buy the tools to do it right, do it as many times as I have to for a good job. I aim for perfection and stop shy, but I learn a ton and my time learning is better than paying someone to do it for me at crazy prices and never to my own standard .

I hope this helps define my need.


Thoughts? Prayers?

[Meryl Logue]

I thought I’d close out this thread.

I read some more I found here, and especially Derek’s review from 2008.

I’ve just ordered the Veritas DX block plane and their large router plane and a 3/4” extra blade.. Thank you all for the good input.

Still would like input on the mortices… the timbers are 3 1/2 x 4+”.

[Rob Luter]

You'll be well equipped. I built a bench a few years ago with a base similar to what you describe. Note that M&T joints of the size you will likely use are very forgiving. The level of precision required is not as great. The critical step is getting your shoulders crisp and square so your bed bolts or drawbore pins pull them up tight so nothing will rack. I used glued up construction lumber and locked the tenons in the mortises using the drawbore method with oak dowels. It's been solid as a rock since 2008.

https://live.staticflickr.com/2583/4103275307_f30a5080da_b.jpg

[Derek Cohen]

Hmm… Derek you definitely have paused me.

Maybe I should reframe my question: I am preparing to build an old-growth Doug fir workbench (I salvaged a bunch of beams from a dumpster). I’m planning to use 1” through tenons for the base construction. Some bolted with a furniture nut and some glued. I will need to disassemble it one day, or the teams that shovel my corpse out will.

1) I should use [ ] for making the tenons and refining their fit.

2) I should use [ ] for making the mortice.

I have a $20 Buck block plane; a 1960s Craftsman #5 plane, fairly tuned but I’m learning from here and others how to dial it in; a 1/4” pigsticker; a set of Ashley Iles bench chisels to 1”; an early set of cheaper Bailey chisels sharpened up; the usual power tools (TS, bandsaw, planer, jointer, etc. all bought used and I’ve restored them).

I am prepared to spend some for tools because they + the experience will last a very long time for me. I’m restoring an old house myself and that’s how I do it… buy the tools to do it right, do it as many times as I have to for a good job. I aim for perfection and stop shy, but I learn a ton and my time learning is better than paying someone to do it for me at crazy prices and never to my own standard .

I hope this helps define my need.


Thoughts? Prayers?

Rona, with such large tenons, my preference would be to use the table saw for the tenon shoulders and either a bandsaw or tenon saw for the cheeks. How thick is the bench top? 2-3"? If so, clean up with a 1" chisel (your widest) or a rasp. Clear layout lines and a combination square (used as a depth gauge) will help you keep all square.

The mortices are marked out, and then drilled out, leaving about 2-3mm (closing in on 1/8") to be pared away to the lines, working half way from each side. Ensure the inside walls are square to the underside.

You have purchased great block plane, and it will last a life time or two. To go with your #5, I would look out for a #6 (cheaper, more available) or #7 (better) to flatten the bench top. The #5 would be good to first remove the high spots.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Meryl Logue]

You'll be well equipped. I built a bench a few years ago with a base similar to what you describe. Note that M&T joints of the size you will likely use are very forgiving. The level of precision required is not as great. The critical step is getting your shoulders crisp and square so your bed bolts or drawbore pins pull them up tight so nothing will rack. I used glued up construction lumber and locked the tenons in the mortises using the drawbore method with oak dowels. It's been solid as a rock since 2008.

https://live.staticflickr.com/2583/4103275307_f30a5080da_b.jpg

Oh that does look nice! Wow. What is that (monster) vise, and how does it work, in terms of racking, etc.? Probably a bit off-topic, but that’s a striking build. Oh! And thank you for your insights and advice.

[Meryl Logue]

Rona, with such large tenons, my preference would be to use the table saw for the tenon shoulders and either a bandsaw or tenon saw for the cheeks. How thick is the bench top? 2-3"? If so, clean up with a 1" chisel (your widest) or a rasp. Clear layout lines and a combination square (used as a depth gauge) will help you keep all square.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hmm no mention of the router plane in use here… might it be overkill here? Good advice… I do tend to overthink things. You should see how many “things I learned” on my prototype that I’m using for a miter saw! 🤣

[Rob Luter]

Hmm no mention of the router plane in use here… might it be overkill here? Good advice… I do tend to overthink things. You should see how many “things I learned” on my prototype that I’m using for a miter saw! 藍

The router plane works well for truing up tenon cheeks. I use it all the time. The sizes of the tenons you'll likely be using might not demand that level of precision.

[Meryl Logue]

The router plane works well for truing up tenon cheeks. I use it all the time. The sizes of the tenons you'll likely be using might not demand that level of precision.

Rob, this is good… this gives me some latitude. I’ll aim for furniture quality and not fret as I fall short. (This is my second build ever.)

One thing the first build made clear… reading knowledge is excellent, but incomplete. I made so many mistakes and learned so much… even little things like, “Glue will leak out in ways you cannot imagine or predict. Prepare for it with wet rags and examining from every possible angle !” Sheesh… we’re not talking squeeze-out… drips. Unreal how hands-on is such a new dimension.

[Tom M King]

Rona, when I was first starting out, an old man told me something that I haven't forgotten. He said, "You can build something real fast, in your head."

[Rob Luter]

Rob, this is good… this gives me some latitude. I’ll aim for furniture quality and not fret as I fall short. (This is my second build ever.)

One thing the first build made clear… reading knowledge is excellent, but incomplete. I made so many mistakes and learned so much… even little things like, “Glue will leak out in ways you cannot imagine or predict. Prepare for it with wet rags and examining from every possible angle !” Sheesh… we’re not talking squeeze-out… drips. Unreal how hands-on is such a new dimension.

Yup. Hands on is where the real learning happens. In a prior post I made a flippant remark about being a guy in a basement shop trying not to suck at woodworking. While I've been at this a while, I excel at finding new ways to make mistakes. Usually because I'm rushing things. The silver lining is that I've become real good at fixing mistakes. I've also learned my lesson (mostly). Take your time and work methodically. I tried to expound on the benefits of a methodical (plodding) approach in this post (Link (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?289421-The-Journey&highlight=)). Other members wiser and more experienced than I added some sage words worth reading.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Just remember that most tasks can be completed many ways using many tools. One tool may work great for you and poorly for me. As an example, you can probably use sandpaper, a chisel, or a plane to fix the fit of something. I own a router plane and a butt mortise plane

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/products/butt-mortise-plane

I own the large and Medium and they both fit in the box; I like the box.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/router/111343-veritas-large-router-plane-box-and-imperial-blades-set?item=05P3892

I have used both and they both work. I can do things with the router planes that I cannot do with the but mortise plane.

I own a bunch of block planes but I do not find use for them often; but I am also not usually cutting mortises in my work.

BTW, you had me at "pulled a bunch of wood from a dumpster" (my rephrase).

[Meryl Logue]

Lol it’s always faster in my head. I mean, what can go wrong?

[Meryl Logue]

Just remember that most tasks can be completed many ways using many tools. One tool may work great for you and poorly for me. As an example, you can probably use sandpaper, a chisel, or a plane to fix the fit of something. I own a router plane and a butt mortise plane

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/products/butt-mortise-plane

I own the large and Medium and they both fit in the box; I like the box.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/router/111343-veritas-large-router-plane-box-and-imperial-blades-set?item=05P3892

I have used both and they both work. I can do things with the router planes that I cannot do with the but mortise plane.

I own a bunch of block planes but I do not find use for them often; but I am also not usually cutting mortises in my work.

BTW, you had me at "pulled a bunch of wood from a dumpster" (my rephrase).

I looked at the butt plane. Wow! I want one, just because! Really nice tool. And the box… yes I would love that. The problem is that then one wants to fill in the blanks. (Well, THIS one wants to.) 😂 Thank you.

Yeah, that wood. Old growth, rings only a sixteenth apart… amazing stuff under a few hundred pounds of brick. Never nailed, climate controlled building for decades. Will need to be really careful I get all the brick and mortar shards out of it.

[Mike Henderson]

I looked at the butt plane. Wow! I want one, just because! Really nice tool. And the box… yes I would love that. The problem is that then one wants to fill in the blanks. (Well, THIS one wants to.)  Thank you.

Yeah, that wood. Old growth, rings only a sixteenth apart… amazing stuff under a few hundred pounds of brick. Never nailed, climate controlled building for decades. Will need to be really careful I get all the brick and mortar shards out of it.

I had one of those butt mortise planes. They're really only useful for making hinge mortises on doors - at least I never found any other use for them. I eventually sold mine. If you're not doing a lot of doors I wouldn't recommend it. If you only do a door every few years, there are other ways of making the mortises using tools you probably already have.

When I say "door" I mean passage doors, not doors on furniture.

Mike

[Meryl Logue]

Well, as the original poster, I thought I was done. Another update… I did order the LV DX block plane, foregoing the extra potential versatility of the LN 60 1/2R. Then yesterday I revisited a CL listing for an AC ATKINS saw set, quite old, for $10. I drove out (past two wrecks that added a lot of slow-n-go to the trip but hey… with jazz on the radio…) and it was an older gentleman who was cleaning house. Garage. He’d had it for over 50 years. I asked about anything else. I wound up with a Stanley 78 missing only the fence, and a Disston & Sons (plural) rip with 5 1/2 stamped on the plate (TPI? PPI?). All for all the cash I could scrounge from cubby holes in my car… $69 total. So point is: That 78 will help me not miss the LN 60 1/2R so badly, and a bit cheaper.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I had one of those butt mortise planes. They're really only useful for making hinge mortises on doors - at least I never found any other use for them. I eventually sold mine. If you're not doing a lot of doors I wouldn't recommend it. If you only do a door every few years, there are other ways of making the mortises using tools you probably already have.

When I say "door" I mean passage doors, not doors on furniture.

Mike

Makes me wonder if I purchased yours since I got mine used years ago! :D

I have used it on furniture doors only. I have not yet used my router planes to do this since they are a recent acquisition. For certain the butt mortise plane worked better for me then just a chisel. I still did use a chisel, but not for all of it. I do not, however, build a lot of doors, and my last door was made from plywood; another rarity for me.

The one nice thing about the butt mortise plane is the cost. I have used it much more often than my dedicated shooting plane that I finally got rid of because, well, I never used it. My friend who bought it apparently loves it and uses it often.

[Mike Henderson]

Makes me wonder if I purchased yours since I got mine used years ago! :D

I have used it on furniture doors only. I have not yet used my router planes to do this since they are a recent acquisition. For certain the butt mortise plane worked better for me then just a chisel. I still did use a chisel, but not for all of it. I do not, however, build a lot of doors, and my last door was made from plywood; another rarity for me.

The one nice thing about the butt mortise plane is the cost. I have used it much more often than my dedicated shooting plane that I finally got rid of because, well, I never used it. My friend who bought it apparently loves it and uses it often.

Could be you bought mine. It was not a Lie Nielsen but I don't remember the brand. It was a good tool and worked well for what it was designed to do.

Yes, it was quite a few years ago that I sold mine.

Mike