Woodpecker Morty

[Michael Munari]

Woodpeckers has introductory pricing on their new MORTY™ LOOSE TENON JOINERY JIG - https://www.woodpeck.com/morty-loose-tenon-jig.html.

I'm interested in people's opinions/thoughts on this latest tool. I really like the Festool Domino so the idea of using this for exposed and non-parallel tenons seems like it could be very useful and a real time saver like the Domino itself. Trying to determine if the functionality/time savings is worth cost versus using other methods to make exposed tenons. Haven't seen it discussed in the forum yet so I'd really appreciate people's thoughts on it.

Cheers,

[Matthew Hills]

So they didn't beat the domino in price (I'm assuming both woodpeckers and festool are competing for the higher price point), although you'll still need a router and selection of spiral upcut bits.

It reminded me of the mortise pal, but designed for a single mortise width (+/- for the tenon thicknesses). Interesting new features include the ability to adjust the angles, the index pin, and stops. It looks a bigger than the mortise pal, which was sized about right to support a router.

I'll be curious how the tool does with chip evacuation -- this was sometimes an issue with the mortise pal, and something which the domino does well. Might be better with a router that has integrated dust port out the top.

The mortise pal worked pretty well for mortises on edges/ends, but I never did mid-panel mortises into a board face like you might with the domino. For small pieces, I like having the the jig clamping to the piece (mortise pal/morty) rather than the domino's style. But the domino's alignment is pretty convenient when you are putting multiple loose-fit mortises down the length of a board where you can hold it in place and cut as fast as you plunge.

I was wondering why they are sizing the loose tenon stock in metric, but their suggested bits are imperial.

Also seemed like a lot of pieces to keep track of.

Are the different bushings to give you different fits on tenon width?

Matt

[ChrisA Edwards]

Got the email this morning and watched the video.

It's a nest product, but at $600 it's too rich, for me, for what it does.

I have many Woodpeckers tools and would probably have more if their prices was a bit more reasonable and I also think they sell a lot more.

[glenn bradley]

Wow, a $600 Mortise Pal :). Beautifully made as is the norm for WP. The ability to angle is cool but, I would like the ability to change length as well as width like the MP does. Maybe an alternate center rail will be offered as an accessory.

[richard poitras]

To pricey for what it does in my book... but to each there own. As there are lots of alternatives.

[Keegan Shields]

Looks like a nicely built product. But at $640, that's getting into Domino territory. Its a very high price point for a product that sits awkwardly between a shop made jig like the Morley Mortiser and a Domino/Pantorouter.

If you don't want to spring for a Pantorouter or Domino, I'd suggest making a slot mortiser with some linear bearings and a lead screw off Amazon ($130ish) and some BB plywood. Here is cool vide of one that Philip Morley did awhile back:

https://youtu.be/i0uDlQz-dAI

[Richard Coers]

Oh, but it has a sustainer!!!!!! Perfect for those who prefer to do woodworking on the internet instead of in their shop. The price is okay if you have the application, but if you buy it for imaginary work you might do some day, then the price is very high.

[Matt Day]

Pass.

————

[Tom Bain]

Wow, a $600 Mortise Pal :). Beautifully made as is the norm for WP. The ability to angle is cool but, I would like the ability to change length as well as width like the MP does. Maybe an alternate center rail will be offered as an accessory.

I thought the same thing, but the ability to make longer tenons with the mortise pal is the reason I still have and use mine from time-to-time. That's a real shortcoming of the Morty design in my view.

[Jacob Mac]

I really like my Mortise Pal. And even if I could get either tool for free, I still think I would choose my Mortise Pal

[Michael Munari]

Oh, but it has a sustainer!!!!!! The Systainer is a value with all the small parts to keep track of with the Morty...

[Mike Henderson]

Too slow. To me, that's one of the real advantages of the Domino - it's fast.

Mike

[Michael Munari]

Are the different bushings to give you different fits on tenon width?

Matt

Thanks for the time to reply. I'm assuming the guide bushings pair with their recommended bits to give you the equivalent of a tight fitting Domino mortise in any of the sizes. That's what I took from the video anyway.

The combination of guide bushing and plunge routing would give you a lot of flexibility on use since, if you're OK with one of the Festool Domino sizes, you could cut your tenons to length and plunge as deep as practical. Chip evacuation would mostly depend on your router I'd think. I really like through tenons but for as little furniture as I actually make with exposed tenons it's worth cutting them by hand or making a jig to template route them if I want the round edges.

The Morty would do some things pretty well but for face frames I now use the Seneca Dock Plate (https://www.senecawoodworking.com/products/dock-plate-xl) along with a dock I built using the Domino Dock by Ramon Valdez of Ramon Valdez Fine Furniture (props - works great). The Morty would be just as accurate, just slower so that doesn't make sense.

I don't see myself building enough louvered projects that the $600 cost is worth it.

I'd just get the Systainer because of all the small parts if I ever bought the Morty. My Domino XL Systainer is great since I keep all the bits, the Seneca kit for using small Domino bit sizes, and all the jewelry in one place. It's funny that I think a $100 case is the only obvious value here....

Really like the idea of the Morty. I just don't think I'd get enough use out of it to make the cost worthwhile... Appreciate the feedback everyone is giving because I didn't get the Domino at first until I used it the first time. Now I wouldn't make cabinets or face frames without it. I also approach some projects (e.g. beds) a little differently with the Domino since you can use the floating tenons and other traditional joints to combine quick machine with hand work for nice finished projects. I'm not seeing that with the Morty but I have a history of not seeing the possibilities immediately.

If you have a small Domino and want big Domino sizes for some projects I could see the Morty making sense for some people since it'd compliment their workflow without dropping an additional $1400 on the bigger tool. It'd also make sense for someone doing a lot of small projects who didn't want to pop for the Festool tools and wanted all the Domino sizes. Again, it's slower than the Domino in this use case so it's a time/value proposition over the Domino unless you're using angles.

[Michael Munari]

I really like my Mortise Pal. And even if I could get either tool for free, I still think I would choose my Mortise Pal

Thanks for this feedback and to everyone who mentioned the Mortise Pal. I never noticed the Mortise Pal and it seems like they've been unavailable at retail since ~2014.

[Michael Munari]

Too slow. To me, that's one of the real advantages of the Domino - it's fast.

Mike FAST AND ACCURATE! I really like the Domino for a lot of things. I probably am overthinking the Morty since I see it as a compliment to the Domino rather than replacing it. Seems just too expensive for me for just the ability to angle mortises since I already have a Domino XL. Seneca Woodworking has addressed everything that would motivate me to buy the Morty otherwise (e.g. small diameter Domino's with the Domino XL adapter, small stock with the Dock Plate).

If I only had the small Domino the Morty would make sense to use the exact same workflow without having to pop for the bigger tool. I don't do enough large projects where the time would be an issue. I only bought the big Domino because Seneca had so many accessories available.

[Charles Lent]

An outrageous price, for what it is. You could almost hire a toolmaker to build one for that. I have seen several DIY shop made wood versions of the Mortise Pal jig and they will work as good as this, except that this jig has the ability to do "angled floating tenons", which I can't think of any reason to ever need, except for maybe 90 degrees. The FMT can do true Mortise and Tenons as well as Floating Tenons very accurately. I think I'll stick with my FMT Pro for my M&T work. At least it's paid for. It can do the 90 degree mortises (only needed to do this once in 10 years) by using a template accessory.

Charley

[Curt Putnam]

One of our members here used to, and hopefully still does, make a horizontal mortising/routing machine, adjustable in all 3 axis and woth all the goodies for about that same amount of money. He is a frequent contributor and maybe he will chime in.

[Dan Rude]

Take a look at Peter Millard's 10 Minute Workshop this week "Ultimate Loose Tenon Jig [video 453]" It seems to do everything mentioned. It is a lot cheaper than the woodpecker jig. Dan

[Michael Munari]

Take a look at Peter Millard's 10 Minute Workshop this week "Ultimate Loose Tenon Jig [video 453]" It seems to do everything mentioned. It is a lot cheaper than the woodpecker jig. Dan

Thanks for this! This a clever way to make a template.

[Bob Hinden]

I already have a Domino, so not interested in the "Morty". Odd name for a tool.....

However, the Tenon stock in different kinds of wood might be interesting for projects with thru tenons. Not a replacement for the Festool ones that come with groves for glue for normal use, but for thru tenons where the tenon will show.

[Richard Coers]

The Systainer is a value with all the small parts to keep track of with the Morty...
Not for me. I use small rectangular Rubbermaid containers to keep track of small parts. Easy to put in a drawer when all my floor space is too valuable for a stack of Systainers.

[Mike Henderson]

I already have a Domino, so not interested in the "Morty". Odd name for a tool.....

Short for Mortise.

Mike

[Clifford McGuire]

This product has an estimated ship date December 31, 2021.

[Dave Zellers]

I think we have reached the point where we can acknowledge that Woodpeckers is pushing things looking for the tipping point of the consumer. This is a ridiculous product at this price point.

[Dave Zellers]

This product has an estimated ship date December 31, 2021.
Unless they cancel it because only 20 people ordered one. :eek:

[Cary Falk]

I have a few Woodpecker measuring tools. This looks like it would be cumbersome to use. The price is ridiculous for what it is but so is the Domino and the FMT.

[Michael Munari]

An outrageous price, for what it is. You could almost hire a toolmaker to build one for that. I have seen several DIY shop made wood versions of the Mortise Pal jig and they will work as good as this, except that this jig has the ability to do "angled floating tenons", which I can't think of any reason to ever need, except for maybe 90 degrees. The FMT can do true Mortise and Tenons as well as Floating Tenons very accurately. I think I'll stick with my FMT Pro for my M&T work. At least it's paid for. It can do the 90 degree mortises (only needed to do this once in 10 years) by using a template accessory.

Charley

I make a lot of boxes. I could drop angled through tenons in all kinds of projects:)


I think we have reached the point where we can acknowledge that Woodpeckers is pushing things looking for the tipping point of the consumer. This is a ridiculous product at this price point.

The price does seem high. If it was $200 I'd buy it on a flyer and resell on ebay if it didn't work out.


I have a few Woodpecker measuring tools. This looks like it would be cumbersome to use. The price is ridiculous for what it is but so is the Domino and the FMT.

The Domino and FMT are richly priced. I really like woodpeckers T-Squares and 3" square in addition to the Incra rules.

Lot of good feedback here. Thanks everyone. It's a pass for me because I'm just not seeing the advantage of getting it.

I think it'd be a value for someone who didn't want to pop for a Domino but use the premade tenons. I'd imagine you could cut the 56 mortises for 6-panel French doors in about an hour and use Festools Dominos. If you had projects like this it'd be a value compared to the FMT or Domino, although still richly priced.

[Charles Lent]

I bought my FMT Pro back when I had a project to do that required over 1,600 mortise and tenon joints. It saved my butt on that one project and paid for itself at the same time. I might still be chopping mortises had I continued to do it the old mallet and chisel method, and the precise fit made all of the tenons of each size on that project fit any of the mortises of the same size. Parts didn't need to be hand fit. They were interchangeable. That made assembly so much easier. Since I now consider my FMT Pro to be fully "paid for", everything that I need floating tenons or real tenons and matching mortises easy and free. Many times I have used it to make mortises for floating tenons and then just made tenon stock using my planer and table saw, mostly because I don't have to add material to the ends requiring a tenon, so it requires less calculations to end up with a piece the exact length, then use floating tenons to join the pieces together. I still do it both ways, depending on what I am making. You don't need to round the ends of floating tenon stock, if you make the tenon length fit the flat sides of a rounded end mortise. The half rounds at the mortise ends hold the excess glue. The joint strength comes from the quality of fit between the flat surfaces and the glue used. The half round ends add no strength, if the flat sides are a close fit.

Yes, an FMT Pro is expensive, but so is your time, even if you are just a hobby woodworker. The Morty is almost as expensive as what I paid for my FMT Pro and isn't near as capable.

Charley

[Matthew Hills]

Thanks for this feedback and to everyone who mentioned the Mortise Pal. I never noticed the Mortise Pal and it seems like they've been unavailable at retail since ~2014.

I recently saw another mortising jig (Mortise Master) mentioned in a Stumpy Nubs video:

https://youtu.be/qGLSoME2-us?t=445

[Charles Lent]

The CRB7 jig with a recently added accessory can also do similar mortising for floating tenons and another jig that can do this same job, plus others. It's always best to look at all of the options available and study how each works before making a purchase decision. Not every jig will be capable of doing everything that may be needed. The Mortise Master's router base plate and sliding guide pins that can be placed in different holes in the router base plate is a unique idea, but I don't see how this jig is that much better than others available. I haven't seen and touched the actual jig yet. It's just my opinion so far, based on my experience with router mortising jigs that I have worked with in the past. Yes, it's a bit different. Is it better than others? We will see.

Charley

[andrew whicker]

The FMT pro looks awesome.

I have the bigger domino. I also love the fact that it's mark two boards, set the height of the cutter and bang out multiple mortises in no time. (Measure once and go to work)

The angle aspect of the WP tool seems neat, however this tool can only help you cut the negative / female. The FMT pro helps you cut the male part too. Making a fast homemade job specific router template for cutting negatives / females would be fairly easy, especially if you're willing to pay someone for a CNC cutout out of clear plastic, negating the WP tool.

However, coming up with a jig to help you cut a male mortise would be more brain power / figuring. A jig for that seems more valuable in my opinion.

The biggest positive is that you can buy bits for your router vs a Domino. All the cutters I buy for the Domino can't be used with any other tool. And, of course, you already have a router so this isn't spending $1500 on a special tool.

[Will Blick]

I am on board with most posters here...
a very clever tool...does a lot, more options than domino, albeit a bit slower.
but I too think WP over prices tools in anticipation of very low volume...
IMO, they should price it lower and get much higher volume of sales. Its a business decision, so far WP's has been successful with their business model. I would think, they would be more successful at slightly lower price points as threads like this indicate. I am a tool junkie, but still price sensitive. Its not a $100 tool, but certainly not a $500 tool... maybe $300 would open up the market.
the Morty jig is unique, and for those who don't have a domino, and not a high volume user, its not a bad alternative. Most people already have the router and bits. But at this price point, those looking for a mortising solution would just buy the domino.
I have passed on many WP tools for this same reason. But OTOH, i have a lots of RED tools in my shop

[Charles Lent]

Loose tenons are easy to make with a table saw and a planer. You can make the tenon stock in large blanks by plaining stock to the desired thickness to fit mortises that you make with a mortising jig and router bit. Then you cut this stock to width and length with your table saw as you need it. The tenons don't need rounded ends to match the mortises. They only need to fit the length of the flat sides of the mortise. The quality of fit of the flat sides of the tenon to the mortise provides the strength. The tenon should fit the mortise with a snug, but not tight, fit. You need a few thousandths gap for the glue. The 1/2 round ends of the mortise hold the excess glue.

Here is a really good mortising jig that is relatively easy to make, that makes very good use of the Micro Jig dovetail clamps. This jig and floating tenon stock like I described above and you will have some great floating tenon joints. Most of you already have what is needed to do this.

Charley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WiFOxY4InE