jet miniVS vs the non-VS

[Stephen Hibbs]

Hi guys, I'm just getting into bowl turning after doing some turning in my highschool woodshop class, and my stepdad offered to get me a lathe for Xmas if I liked it, and now I'm looking at lathes.
With respects to the title of this topic, I was basically wondering if it is a big hassle having to constantly change pulleys, and how many pulleys are on the pully version (perhaps pulley is not the correct word?).
Also, is there a way to speed up the curing process for green bowls; ie put it in a warmed oven or microwave(just curious, I doubt it would work well ;) ) And is it possible to mount a grinder onto the lathe in order to avoid cluttering up the small area I have and cut down on cost?

Looking forward to getting into bowl turning, and I apologize if this has been gone over, I ran a few searches and didn't find anything regarding the grinder issue.

[Cecil Arnold]

Get the VS, you'll need it, and there is a range for each pulley setting. You can speed up the drying process using Dave Smith's DNA process, from green to finished in about two weeks, depending on the wood type. I don't know about mounting a grinder to the lathe, but sounds like a bad idea IMHO. Welcome to the creek.

[John Hart]

Welcome Stephen!!! Hope you find this place educational...Not because of me of course, but there is a wealth of experience here and very open and helpful folks. VS? Got my vote. That's all I've ever used so I don't have anything to compare it with but I can't imagine going any other way.

I've tried the oven and microwave methods and they don't work out for me. The oven would work if you set it on 120 and left the wood in there for 2 weeks, but any hotter, you'll get movement...lots of it. The microwave does better, but because the microwaves do "spot heating" you get an uneven distribution and have to be very diligent about short periods of heating then long periods of cooling over many many cycles. Dave Smiths DNA method is proving to be rock solid.

[Jeremiah Jordan]

I have the Delta Midi Nonvariable. There are just so many times where I could just wish it was variable speed. I am seriously thinking about getting the Jet variable. I have also had the set screws come off from the pullies(sp). But that is just with the Delta one, never turned on the Jet. But good luck to you, I hope to hear how you come out.

Jeremiah

[Jim Sample]

Welcome aboard Stephen, you found a "GOOD ONE" in this place, best learning place around. I sold a Rockwell 4 step pulley lathe and bought a small Jet Mini 1014VS, am not sorry, sure beats changing belt all the time, and it has a low speed -- there is no other way to go.

I have dried bowls, etc. with DNA since Dave Smith finally told us of this method, sure does work for me so far, try it.

Good luck.

Jim Sample

[Don Henthorn Smithville, TX]

Steve, I'm a contrarian. I see little advantage for the Vs over the non vs. They both have the same speed range which is not slow enough for critical operations such as badly unbalanced blanks, applying finish, certain sanding applications, etc. Convenience is the only thing you might gain and most people don't change belt positions that often to make it a hassle.

I have a non vs which I converted to vs by using a treadmill DC motor and converter. This made the speeds on my lathe 0 to the top speed of non converted lathes. This makes variable speed worth while. The treadmill motor is at least twice as strong as the stock motor, The converter has a feedback circuit which increses torque in the lower range so that is not a problem. I am happy as a clam.(G)

[Gary DeWitt]

Steve, I've only used a Delta midi, with belts, so I can't really compare, but for the money, it did get me started. I don't really have a problem stopping to change speeds, and I "cheat", as in I don't adjust tension each time, just roll the belt over to the next pulley.
I DO NOT RECOMEND Delta, I've had numerous small problems with it, and a potentially big one, kinda loose tailstock, won't lock down completely.
From what I've heard about the Jet lathes, I'd rather have one.

No one addressed your Q regarding the grinding wheel, so here you go. The good news is, you will have a variable speed grinder. I have mounted a wheel on the lathe, and with proper bushings, it works just fine. Tool rest works well for general grinding. You just need to get a nut and a washer or two that fit your spindle threads, not hard to find. I have also mounted one of those abrasive cutoff wheels, like you put in a saw, to do some "detail grinding" and it worked too. In either case, you must be careful to center the wheel well each time you put it on, unless the wheel happens to fit exactly.
What WILL be a PITA with this setup is that you will need to sharpen your tools several times during turning one object, so you will be slowed way down mounting your grinding wheel and then your object, back and forth.
I suppose you could mount a grinding wheel outboard, where the hand wheel was, but I haven't tried it. Kind rough on the hand!
Good luck, and drop by often, this is a great group of folks here.

[Jeremiah Jordan]

I have a non vs which I converted to vs by using a treadmill DC motor and converter. This made the speeds on my lathe 0 to the top speed of non converted lathes. This makes variable speed worth while. The treadmill motor is at least twice as strong as the stock motor, The converter has a feedback circuit which increses torque in the lower range so that is not a problem. I am happy as a clam.(G)

Hmmm.... Just a few questions for you Don. What type of lathe did you have, and how hard is the procedure and the expense? Thanks.

Jeremiah

[Jim Ketron]

I started out with The Non VS Jet Mini and still have it even though I moved up to a PM 3520A, guess I will keep it as long as it will run.:D Its a great little lathe! It takes about 15-20 seconds to change the belt.
I gave a bowl turning class at Woodcraft a few weeks ago and the student lathes was Jet Minis 3 non VS and one VS. I had the belt on low speed and the lathe was just so weak (no tork) that a student was having trouble turning the bowl with the VS Lathe, I tried it out to make sure that it was not the student, but it was doing the same with me also, I had to let the student turn on one of the non VS lathes and he did just fine on it. I don't know if the lathe had something wrong with it or all the VS are this way? But if they are I would not recommend the VS.
I have read a few posts talking about this before but I had never turned on one. I say a few people will chime in if they have had the same problems or not.
I hope it was that lathe, but compared to my non VS not as much power IMO!

[Bob Noles]

Welcome Stephen and good to have you among us. I am somewhat new to this woodboring addiction, but I am happy to share what little I have learned so far. First off, it is very little effort to change speed on a non vs mini/midi. It only takes about 15-20 seconds. You will find a belt pulley for each speed the lathe is capable of. I believe the Jet has 6 speeds therefore 6 pulleys. Mine has 5 speeds and therefore 5 pulleys. It is just a matter of stopping the lathe, moving the belt over to the correct pylleys and you're back in business. Nothing to it really and I am a believer in an old saying that the more bells and whistles, the more things to break.

As for the grinder, I would go with a seperate machine for many reasons, some of which others have already explained. You will most likely want to mount a grinding jig and that will be next to impossible to do with the grinding wheel being mounted on the lathe. It is easy enough to put it on a small stand somewhere else and run back and forth to grind your tool when needed.

Be sure to stick around and share your experiences with us. We will hold Mr. Holt back and not let him eat you alive until you get on your feet :D

[Bill Grumbine]

Hi Stephen

This is a tough call on which lathe. Variable speed is great, especially for bowls, since it allows you to tune the speed of the lathe to the best rpm for cutting without vibration. However, Jim K points out a huge defect in the Jet VS design. It is a single pulley machine, which means that the slower you set the speed, the slower the motor goes, and when the motor slows down, you lose torque. Then it becomes an exercise in frustration as you put the gouge to the wood only to have the lathe stall over and over again. I think Jet really missed the boat on this one. What the lathe needs is a stepped pulley and a variable speed motor. I love my variable speed lathes, but mine are a little different than most peoples'.

If it were me with your decision to make, I would probably go for the stepped pulley machine. You can always modify it later on like Don did, and my Vicmarc mini is set up in much the same way - stepped pulleys with a variable speed DC motor.

Bill

[Stephen Hibbs]

Wow, thanks a lot guys, I'll probably get the non-VS then, as it sounds like changing pulleys is fairly easy, and the VS has that design flaw. It hadn't occured to me that the grinder would have to be remounted each time if it were part of the lathe, so I guess I'll have to just get a separate one. Is 500 rpm slow enough to lathe octagonal wood, or would I have to round it out even more before roughing it.

I began working on the inside of my first bowl today, and it was really fun, I even stayed after to keep working.

[Dale Thompson]

Stephen,
My second lathe was a PM 3520 with all the bells and whistles such as a two-speed pulley system (HIGH and LOW), electronic variable speed, reverse, etc. I got spoiled REAL quick after working with an old Craftsman lathe for quite a few years.

With that said, every time that I passed the Jet Mini in my favorite "toy" store, I was REALLY tempted to buy it! The ONLY reason that I didn't was because it did NOT have the VS capability! :( As soon as they came out with the VS, I IMMEDIATELY bought one! I have not been the least bit sorry.

Contrary to what may have been implied previously, changing the belt on the pulleys IS a pain - especially if you are used to a VS unit. If nothing else, the concentration on your turning and your rhythm is lost. Turning a dial is a LOT better and faster than fiddling with belts and "guessing" at your next speed range. ;) I have put 2 1/2" x 2 1/2" Red Oak blanks on my Jet Mini VS and turned them with little problem. When I'm turning pens, I can start the lathe at a slower speed to get my "cylinder" and then crank it up to Max. for final shaving and finishing. Fast, easy and FUN! :) Changing belts? Forget it!

As Bill Grumbine says, if you are going to max out the bowl turning capacity of this lathe starting with a square blank, you will have some "stalling". The slower "roughing out" speed required causes the "stalling". This is not so much a loss of "torque" as it is a loss of angular momentum. The obvious answer is to use a band saw or whatever to "trim" your blank to something closer to a cylinder than is a square. Once you get your blank into a cylinder, your choice of turning speeds is dependent on your confidence with your tools. A "true" cylinder must be longer than the "typical" depth of a bowl long before "flexure" dynamics becomes a consideration. :confused: :)

Stephen, if your Stepdad doesn't want to get you a PM 3520 as a "Starter Lathe" ( :) ), get him to spend the extra $100 on the Jet mini VS. I don't think that either of you will be sorry! I would not even CONSIDER a lathe if it didn't have VS. :cool: In my opinion, it's like comparing an audio cassette player with the latest generation of iPods! ;) :)

Thanks for posting on the Creek. Come back and see us often and please post some pics of your new "toy", regardless of your decision. :D

Dale T.

[Randy Meijer]

OK, guess there a few more points that need to be made. First off, there will probably be some belt shifting with the JET VS. While being called a VS lathe, the JET has three speed ranges within each of which the speed is variable; but to access the full range of speeds belt changes must be made. The speed ranges of the JET are:

500-1200,
1100-2600 and
1700-3900.

Most folks can live in 2 speed ranges and some will tell you that 95% of their work is done in one speed range. Regardless, some belt changing is likely to be needed. Do not be fooled into thinking that the JET VS will go from 0 to max RPMs with a twist of the dial.....just ain't so!!!

As a pen crafter, I suspect there may be some benefits for those who turn bowls and larger objects; but for pen turners, I see no real advantage to the VS capability. I do worry that all of that electronic control is more stuff that can fail and be very expensive to repair; but to be fair, I don't think I've ever seen a post about the controller failing?? If you are on a tight budget, consider what that extra 100 bucks will add to your shop??

As to the grinder question, the answer may be sort of. The idea of mounting a grinding wheel does not appeal to me.....inconvenience and safety being two major issues. you can find inexpensive 6" grinders that don;'t take up very much shop space ans should be easier and safer to use. On the other hand. PSI has a neat little devise called a chisel-mate which attaches to the headstock on a permanent basis and allows you to touch up your chisels at any time. Basically it is a 6" disk with a 1" hole in the center that mounts on the lathe spindle. A piece of 600 grit sandpaper attached to the disk will keep your tools finely honed during a turning project. Works very well when used with pens and other small projects. Probably not be so useful when turning larger objects. If you are handy, you could build your own. I used shop scraps and an 89¢ 1"x 8tpi nut from Tractor Supply.

[Bill Grumbine]

OK, guess there a few more points that need to be made. First off, there will probably be some belt shifting with the JET VS. While being called a VS lathe, the JET has three speed ranges within each of which the speed is variable; but to access the full range of speeds belt changes must be made. The speed ranges of the JET are:

Well this is news to me. It sounds like I have bad information on this machine. Of course, it has been a while since I looked at one, but when I looked over the Jet VS mini, it was just out on the market, and we could only find one pulley on it. Even so, if one is going to turn bowls with this lathe, it needs a speed range of 0 - 500 rpm or something very similar. A bottom end of 500 with VS is going to be nothing but frustration.

I turned nothing but pens for over three years, back in the 90s. I loved having variable speed for them. I turned and polished at the top speed of the lathe, but slowed it down significantly for sanding. A good speed for turning will just burnish the wood for sanding, and the proper sanding speed is way too slow for turning.

My Vicmarc mini is the cadillac of minis in my opinion. It is the one that Jet knocked off back in the mid 90s. It comes with a stepped pulley system, to which I added a VS DC motor. I have all the speed ranges in 0 - whatever. If I have a rough piece I want to make into a bowl, I can set it at the 0-550 range. If I am turning pens or something else real skinny, I set it at the 0-4100 (or whatever it is). While it was expensive, I will keep it for the rest of my life, and it has paid for itself several times over in the time I have owned it. The Jet mini with a motor cost less than the Vicmarc with no motor, but it could be configured the same way by purchasing and fitting a DC variable speed motor to it. However, most people aren't into spending that kind of money on a mini.

Bill

[Ed Lang]

I'll add a second to the Jet VS does have a step pulley system. Three steps. Belt is easy to change. I have turned many bowls on my mini and I find it is fine, if you take light cuts. You will NOT need a 1/2" bowl gouge! My first 3/8" bowl gouge can stop the lathe without any trouble. This will work in your favor! You will learn to take light controlled cuts. Be sure to watch Bill's DVD so you will know how to start your bowl rough out.

After you run the mini for a while you will want bigger. I moved up to a Oneway 2436 from the mini.

The ONLY thing I could say was not up to my expectation on the mini was the paint job. I got a few big chips of paint to fall off while taking it out of the box. After I turned a bit of Mulberry the lathe was sticky yellow so it didn't matter.

You will want a seperate bench grinder and something like if not the Wolverine jig.

Keep us posted on the lathe more importantly, pictures of your projects. Remember the pictures we gotta keep Tyler happy.

[Dale Thompson]

Randy and Ed,
Good point on the step pulley thing. :) My miniVS is up at my cabin where I use it to work with visiting "summer" kids to teach some lathe techniques. I'm not teaching THEM! :eek: They are teaching ME! ;)

Whatever, I think that I have always kept it on the middle speed range although, at my age, I'm not sure that I remember where my cabin is? :confused: In fact, I forget about the stepped pulley. :o

For the use mentioned above, we have pretty much stuck to spindle turning. For kids that age, they would much rather make small bats, clubs, gavels and such. :eek: Next summer I will have a couple who are ready for bowls. :) I'll watch their techniques and see if I can make one for myself! :o :cool:

Dale T.