Drum Sander Questions

[John Stankus]

I have been asked to teach an extra course this summer. I was thinking about perhaps buying a drum sander with the extra pay.
My issue is my limited space in the shop. I know the mantra is bigger is better, but I do need to still be able to maneuver in my shop.

I have been looking at the Supermax sanders

I like that the 16-32 has the quick height change and comes with the digital readout. Will I regret going with the smaller unit over the bigger ones like the 19-38?
I know I won't be able to do large table tops (or just make the rough center a design feature :) ) Are there enough other applications to justify the sander?

John

[Robert Hayward]

I find my Supermax 16-32 invaluable for my hobby and craft type stuff I do. I also struggled with the 19-38 vs 16-32 prior to buying the 16-32. I also am in a small shop and did not use the legs that came with the sander. Instead built a three drawer base cabinet with four total locking swivel casters. The machine can be easily maneuvered around the shop and out of the way with the four swivels.

[Charlie Jones]

My Supermax 16-32 is used on nearly every project I do. The one thing that I think is useless is the digital readout. I just run the drum down until it touches the stock and a little more each pass. You get the feel of it pretty quick.

[Steve Eure]

I wanted the 16-32 also because of shop constraints. The vendor I visited did not have any and said there was at least a four month back log before there would be any available. They did have a 19-38. I weighed the options and price and went ahead and bit the bullet and bought the bigger machine. My wife said a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush sort of thing. I don't regret my decision one bit. It is a might cramped in my shop though, although it would have been the same with the 16-32.
As for the digital readout, I purchased one online and have never used it. I find it's a waste of money for me. I use a digital caliper and have never had any problem going back to the thickness I need. I do use this machine quite a bit, so it was worth the money for me.
I don't think you would regret getting the smaller sander. They are both fantastic machines.

[Jim Becker]

I was fortunate to be able to acquire a barely used 19-38 a year and a half ago and really like it. I did add the digital display to it. I did that because I work in both metric and when I need to, decimal inches. While the ultimate judge is my digital calipers, I find having the readout to be useful. The manual scale can only support one measuring system. (and defaults to Imperial)

[Robert London]

Hey John, my vote is always to get a tad larger if you can. You probably won’t regret getting the 19/38 with extra width for projects.

I had a 16/32 for almost 20 years. It would constantly bog down and shut off under heavy loads. Just not enough power and that was pre Inteli Sand where the feed would slow down to help.

I was going to buy the 19/38 but wanted a larger 3hp machine plus for larger thicker slabs. The 19/38 was out of stock and ended up buying the Supermax 5 hp 25 dual drum. A big footprint but man it’s so nice to handle those larger projects.

[John Stankus]

I'm trying to visualize the size differences in the different sanders.
16-32 is 23.3 x 37.2 or about 6 sq ft of floor space
19-38 is 26.4 x 41.5 or about 7.6 sq ft
25-50 is 26.4 x 45.8 or about 8.4 sq ft

Maybe I need to make cardboard cut outs and lay them on the shop floor.

John

[Doug Dawson]

I'm trying to visualize the size differences in the different sanders.
16-32 is 23.3 x 37.2 or about 6 sq ft of floor space
19-38 is 26.4 x 41.5 or about 7.6 sq ft
25-50 is 26.4 x 45.8 or about 8.4 sq ft

Maybe I need to make cardboard cut outs and lay them on the shop floor.

JohnThe difference in footprint between the 19-38 and the (closed stand) 25-50 was so minor, and the 25-50 solution so elegant, that it was to me a no-brainer to go with the larger unit. I’ve never regretted it.

[Keegan Shields]

I was looking at a new 16-32 as well and stumbled upon a used 25-50 which I bought for the same price. It’s awesome. I wasn’t sure I’d like a drum sander enough to justify the floor space it took up bits it’s been endlessly useful.

Just flattened a 40” wide shop sawn veneer (.25”) top the other day. The level of precision for final thickness is a huge step up from my DW735.

[John K Jordan]

I'm trying to visualize the size differences in the different sanders.
16-32 is 23.3 x 37.2 or about 6 sq ft of floor space
19-38 is 26.4 x 41.5 or about 7.6 sq ft
25-50 is 26.4 x 45.8 or about 8.4 sq ft

Maybe I need to make cardboard cut outs and lay them on the shop floor.

John

John, in addition to size, consider placement. I have a Performax 22-44 which resides up against a wall at a corner. Of course, I can't use it in that position, but the cabinet is on wheels and rolls very easily a couple of feet till it's out in a walkway.

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I just move it enough so the bed clears the corner. A flex hose connects to a DC blast gate on the wall. Do you have a corner like this or can it be placed beside some other tool or workbench and roll out when needed?

JKJ

[Michael Drew]

The 16/32 is a newer model. Laguna bought SM out, so maybe they will rev the larger machine? I went with the 16/32 for the quick raise feature, and also to a smaller footprint. But then I built a cabinet for the thing, and it ended up being large enough for the 19/36..... So far, I think this is a great machine. I don't think a person could go wrong with either.

[Alex Zeller]

I don't think I would wait too long. Grizzly is raising their prices so I expect that the others will also. Unlike Grizzly I don't think they will announce it before hand. Personally I would go with the largest version you want. The difference in size between the 16-32 and the 25-50 isn't much. I was going to get the 19-38 but then came across a used Woodmaster 26". It was a tight fit but now that I have it I wouldn't be without it. I use it hand in hand with my planer. I've never tried to sand half a board, spin it around, and do the other half but for me 20" is about the largest I've ever done. That's why I was looking at the 19-38.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I like my 19-38 and wouldn't want to be without one. For what I do building instruments precision of flattening is the main draw of a drum sander, and not chipping when I make thin veneers. Speed of removal is not a big issue since I'm mostly doing small parts. I've had mine for 3 years. I was interested in the 16-32 but decided against it because the depth capacity was 3" versus 4" on mine, and I quite often am sanding banjo rims that are 3 to 3-1/4" tall. I don't need the quick release, and the DRO is pretty useless, I can run the same piece through on the same setting 3 or 4 times and each time it will get a few thousandths thinner. I use a digital caliper to check thickness after each pass when I'm getting close to the target thickness.

[Dave Zellers]

I have the 19-38 and couldn't be happier. I bought it right after Supermax introduced the 16-32. The extra size was a factor but so was the extra weight as I do sometimes want to push through large heavy planks. The 19-38 is roughly 100 pounds heavier than the 16-32 which can help with larger objects although that can be overcome by providing perfectly inline infeed and outfeed support. IMO, the extra weight is a big advantage unless the sander is to be used mostly for smaller pieces.

[Izzy Charo]

I have the Jet 16-32 and like it, but absolutely hate the small clip on the motor side for holding the paper...and I know others have struggled with this as well. If anyone has a "trick" to make this easier I would love to know about it! I did wonder if anyone has tried to load the paper from the motor side, so that you would have better access to the clip on the outboard side to make the final "clip in".... keeping the direction of rotation of the roller in mind... does anyone know if this works? Thanks!
Izzy

[Rob Sack]

I guess most of those with open end drum sanders have been happy with their sanders. I Initially bought a Performax 22-44. I was never able to get flat panels. If the panel was under 22 in. wide, it would always be thicker near the open end and if the panel was wider that 22 in and was fed through in both directions, the panel would have a crown in the middle. Performax finally bought back the machine. I then purchased a well used Woodmaster 38 in. single head sander. Although changing the velcro sandpaper was a bit of a pain, the machine performed flawlessly for years, producing consistently flat panels. In my experience, the Woodmaster is quite underrated and an excellent value.

[John Stankus]

Ok... First off I want to say that you all are a bad influence on me. :rolleyes:

Went down to the local Woodcraft and put an order in for a 25-50. I do have a few months to reshuffle the stuff in the shop to make space for it. :) (I guess that's a benefit of the supply chain back up)

My reasoning really came down when I realized the 25-50 isn't too much bigger of a footprint than the 19-38... Both use the same conveyor belt. And the stands are the "same", the closed stand on the 25-50 is the same stand as the optional closed stand for the 19-38. There is just an outrigger on the 25-50 that extends over the end. Besides, my wife the engineer, said to not mess around and get the bigger one :) since the price differential wasn't that huge.

Now I just need to figure out how to get rid of some of my accumulation of stuff that is clogging up the shop.

Thanks for the input

John

[Thomas Colson]

I'll never buy a supermax product again due to the absolute nightmare of experience I had with tech support regarding a defective out of the box 16-32. The (second) replacement seems to be working as intended, but for me, 1400$ was quite an investment, was a little shocked that tech support was that bad. Worse than calling the cable company! And yes, the digital read out is worthless and whatever you zero it at, will be different in a few days.

[glenn bradley]

I'll never buy a supermax product again due to the absolute nightmare of experience I had with tech support regarding a defective out of the box 16-32. The (second) replacement seems to be working as intended, but for me, 1400$ was quite an investment, was a little shocked that tech support was that bad. Worse than calling the cable company! And yes, the digital read out is worthless and whatever you zero it at, will be different in a few days.


Sorry you had that experience Thomas. I went back and reviewed your Drum Sander thread and apologize for not responding more aggressively in that thread; I worry about offending others too much some times. Apologies in advance to 16-32 owners out there. I should have stated that after your first 16-32 experience I would have returned it and gone for the proven 19-38. The 16-32 is a different design than the 19-38 and 25-50. I'm sure the designer was trying to include some cool convenience features and added a little "value engineering".

This is not just a rant. I had read so much for so long about the shortcomings of drum sanders that I had done without for a long time. When the 19-38 started getting a lot of praise right out of the gate and this praise continued with nearly every review that I considered reliable I took the plunge. My unit did have a sort of whine in the feed belt motor. Although considered normal, Supermax sent me a new one just to make me happy. The machine had been rock solid since my initial setup. I moved. It has been rock solid since the post-move setup as well.

I am only blathering on to add more data to the thread for those interested . . . I do that sometimes . . . :o

[Jacob Mac]

Laguna owns Supermax now, correct? If so, customer service is probably way different than it used to be?

I'm in the market for a drum sander, too. Customer service, ease of adjustability, and availability are important. I was thinking Grizzly G1066Z until the price went up to 2,750. I could get a Powermatic for less than that.

The Supermax seems like a good deal, but if Laguna owns it, I'm a lot more concerned.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I've had to do nothing to my 19-38 other than adjust belt tension once in the 3 years I've had it. Of course I've replaced the abrasive a bunch of times, but no repairs or work have been needed. It seems to be very solid and dependable.

[Russell Hayes]

I have the Jet 16-32 and like it, but absolutely hate the small clip on the motor side for holding the paper...and I know others have struggled with this as well. If anyone has a "trick" to make this easier I would love to know about it! I did wonder if anyone has tried to load the paper from the motor side, so that you would have better access to the clip on the outboard side to make the final "clip in".... keeping the direction of rotation of the roller in mind... does anyone know if this works? Thanks!
Izzy
Have you tried the Jet tool 98-0060 for the inboard clip? You can grab the clip AND slip the tool up on the drum to hold the clip hands free. Then take your time and feed the paper into the right spot before releasing the tool and clip. A lot of people don't understand how to use the tool correctly. Download the instructions. You just have to make sure you get the paper in the right spot under the clip. I recommend taking the curl out of the paper, straighten it, before you stick it in the clip area. Otherwise it curls up in the wrong place and isn't locked down. I have 3 performax 22-44's with the same clip.

[Chip Seltzer]

I have been on the fence for some time on a drum sander. I have $750 of accumulated gift cards from Woodcraft so I guess they are getting the order and I understand the price on the 19-38 is going up $300 +/- at the end of the month. Think I will place an order and pay this week and let my kids take delivery after i die! (Actually, I think they are saying August).

[John Stankus]

I have been on the fence for some time on a drum sander. I have $750 of accumulated gift cards from Woodcraft so I guess they are getting the order and I understand the price on the 19-38 is going up $300 +/- at the end of the month. Think I will place an order and pay this week and let my kids take delivery after i die! (Actually, I think they are saying August).

yeppers...the delivery of my 25-50 has been delayed yet again. Originally was supposed to be August and had drifted back to December. Yesterday, got a voicemail saying it'll ship end of January. Probably need to call them back to see if that is a firm ship date or just the latest slip of the schedule. At least I bought before two prices increases.:)

John

[glenn bradley]

Maybe I need to make cardboard cut outs and lay them on the shop floor.

John

This was invaluable in planning my new shop layout. That's the 19-38 with extension tables on the left.

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They didn't make the smaller unit when I got my 19-38. Given the sizes of things I wanted to sand the 19-38 is great 90% of the time. Look at what you usually sand and go from there. It is impractical to build for the exception versus the norm.

[Robert London]

yeppers...the delivery of my 25-50 has been delayed yet again. Originally was supposed to be August and had drifted back to December. Yesterday, got a voicemail saying it'll ship end of January. Probably need to call them back to see if that is a firm ship date or just the latest slip of the schedule. At least I bought before two prices increases.:)

John

Yes sir, the price increases have been crazy. I paid $2699 in summer 2020 for my 25x2, and now it's $3999.

[Bill Dufour]

I thought Max sanders went out of busniess around 1980. Are they any relation to supermax?
Bill D

[Bryan Hall]

I've used a few different sizes and ended up buying the 25-50. I couldn't be happier and am shocked at how often I end up needing the full width.

[Keegan Shields]

John,

If you’re willing to drive to Houston…

https://houston.craigslist.org/tls/d/needville-supermax-drum-sander/7407134234.html

[John Stankus]

John,

If you’re willing to drive to Houston…

https://houston.craigslist.org/tls/d/needville-supermax-drum-sander/7407134234.html

Thanks, but since the new one I am waiting for is already paid for. And accounting for purchasing ahead of two price increases plus fuel and time price is comparable. This is a reward for myself for pulling summer teaching duties for the past 5 or 6 years. So a little more wait, while annoying, is not impeding any projects.

John

[Dean Chapel]

Anyone wanna share where they're getting their paper from? I get mine currently from industrial abrasives, but the end of the paper almost always rips off after a few minutes of running, and then I have to wrap duct tape around it to hold it in place. Anyone?

[Robert London]

I've been using Klingspor papers. I buy the bigger rolls and just trim the ends down and it's less expensive than pre-cut. Usually don't have a problem with the ends ripping off.

[John K Jordan]

Anyone wanna share where they're getting their paper from? I get mine currently from industrial abrasives, but the end of the paper almost always rips off after a few minutes of running, and then I have to wrap duct tape around it to hold it in place. Anyone?

All mine are precut to fit my 22-44, various grits, packaged with "Jet" on the box. I bought some from a SMC member and some others through Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006IHIVA
These may be more expensive but I don't care - they work well, last a long time, and I've never experienced a torn end. (When I bought them the package was over $10 cheaper than now.)

JKJ

[Dean Chapel]

thanks for that.

[Robert Hayward]

Here (www.maverickabrasives.com) is another source that I have had good luck with. Not precut but 75' rolls.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I got my roll of 80 grit from supergrit.com. They have the same product, 3" x 50 yards of X weight cloth backed AO roll for $60 plus shipping. I have never had one tear, I just run them till the abrasive is worn out.

[Jim Becker]

Anyone wanna share where they're getting their paper from? I get mine currently from industrial abrasives, but the end of the paper almost always rips off after a few minutes of running, and then I have to wrap duct tape around it to hold it in place. Anyone?
Because of how these drum sanders (Performax and similar) use spring clamps to hold the paper ends, the backing has to be very sturdy to avoid ripping. Try an OEM roll or pre-cut and see if you still have the issue. If so, perhaps there's a sharp edge or something is out of kilter with the retention mechanism. Those spring clips are a "royal pain", regardless of machine brand!

[Jonathan Jung]

My Supermax 16-32 is used on nearly every project I do. The one thing that I think is useless is the digital readout. I just run the drum down until it touches the stock and a little more each pass. You get the feel of it pretty quick.

I agree. Keep some inexpensive micrometers on the machine and measure actual material as it comes out.

My advice is to buy the wides you can afford, for space and finances.

Supermax is the best drum sander for the $.

If wrapping the drums is difficult, try reducing by one wrap, introducing gaps between each wrap. Makes installing the abrasive much easier as there's more wiggle room at each end for inserting into the clamps.

[Matt Day]

I would not buy an opened ended drum sander again. Too much flex leading to variance.

[John K Jordan]

I would not buy an opened ended drum sander again. Too much flex leading to variance.

Interesting, I haven’t noticed that with mine. Maybe they are not all created equal, or perhaps I use lighter passes.

[glenn bradley]

Have you tried the Jet tool 98-0060 for the inboard clip? You can grab the clip AND slip the tool up on the drum to hold the clip hands free. Then take your time and feed the paper into the right spot before releasing the tool and clip. A lot of people don't understand how to use the tool correctly. Download the instructions. You just have to make sure you get the paper in the right spot under the clip. I recommend taking the curl out of the paper, straighten it, before you stick it in the clip area. Otherwise it curls up in the wrong place and isn't locked down. I have 3 performax 22-44's with the same clip.


I was re-reading some of this thread and had missed Russel's reference to the JET 98-0060 Tuftool. I rarely have trouble with the Supermax 19-38 clip but was curious. Using the pictures in the manual as a reference I formed one up using some hard steel wire. I have some heavier wire I figured I would use if I could figure it out.

Disclaimer: I am no metal worker by any stretch.

This will be obvious from looking at the pics.

468860 . 468859 . 468861

It only took a few minutes to bend the wire. I was guessing at proportions and had to re-bend a couple joints a couple of times. It does make an already easy job (I have small hands) even easier :)

[Zachary Hoyt]

I have no trouble with the clips on my 19-38, though there was a bit of a learning curve at first. I wear 2XL or (when I can find them) 3XL size gloves. I can imagine that if the clip was made with a little twist somewhere or something like that it could make it much harder to use, so maybe I just am lucky to have an easy one. I find that it helps if I stretch the roll onto the drum as tightly as I can and then turn the drum on for a few seconds and then when it stops I can get a little more stretch on the roll. I usually do that again after the first pass of actually sanding with a new piece. Otherwise it gets too loose.

[John Stankus]

7 months and 7 days. (If I did the math right) from ordering(and paying) to picking the 25-50 up this morning.

Assembled the base and will try to figure out how to mount the unit after lunch. (More moving the weight around is the challenge)

John

[Paul J Kelly]

There is one style of double drum sander that is different that the performax type of drum sanders. They are made under a few names - CWI, Powermatic, Grizzly, Baileigh and a few others. They come in 25" and 37" versions and they have a bunch of different features than the traditional open end sanders or the double drum performax clones.

They all come in a significant floor standing machine. The 37" versions are around 1000 lb's. They have thick rubber coated 6" drums to minimize heat soak and improve finish. They have rubber conveyor belts like a wide belt sander does and the feed rate is much quicker than the performax style. They also have spring loaded rubber hold down rollers kind of like a planer does. They have much larger motors. Most are 7.5 hp or more for the 37" version and 5hp for the 25" versions. Powermatic decided to move the drive belts into the cabinet for some reason, most of the others have the drive belts in a small enclosure on the side to keep the belts out of the sawdust.

The sandpaper swap is easier because of the design of the hold downs and the dust collection is very good. Plus, they are very basic machines. Much less complex than most widebelt sanders.

CWI and Powermatic come with 5 year warranties and come with a nice set of cabinet doors underneath to store the abrasives.

They go from $6k to $7k for the 37" and are built to work all day.

I have the CWI and am really happy with it.


PK
PKwoodworking

[Rick Potter]

Add Woodmaster to that list, Paul.

I have had a 37" for 15 years +, and it is a solid, and easy to load machine. No clips, it uses packing tape on the edges, which makes it easy to have two grits on the same roller. Mine currently has 100 on one side, and 150 on the other, which gives me an effectively double 15 or 16" sander, if you can follow my reasoning.