Tablesaw Blade recommendations

[Marcus Ward]

So I guess you guys talked me into the bigger saw. I'm going to need a nice blade on it. I plan on mostly ripping and crosscutting oak with other assorted stuff thrown in. I am guessing a combo blade? Kent Cori recommended a Forrest WWII 40T regular kerf in another thread. It's kind of pricey. Anything else comparable? Freud? And these saw dampeners do they help or are they hype?

Thanks guys.

[Ron Teti]

On anther forum I go to they were talking about freuds glue line rip blades and compared them to the forest. They also said it was about 40 bucks cheaper

[Mark Singer]

Dewalt DW7657...is a good blade and similar much less$$$$

[Dennis Peacock]

Everlast or Amana sawblade ROCK!!!!

Oh....did I mention that I like Everlast sawblades? :rolleyes: :D

[Charlie Plesums]

I love my three Forrest WW II blades, especially after I discovered that they could be ordered with the "number 6 grind" where every 5th tooth is a raker. (That grind may have become the "standard" for the WW II - at the Dallas show, the guy peddling Forrest blades was announcing a "new model" and was distraught when I told him I already had three).

Yes, those blades are expensive, but the cut is great. I used one for a couple years, and couldn't believe it wasn't dull, so sent it to Forrest for sharpening, with a note to please let me know how bad it really was. They called to ask why I wanted it sharpened...it was fine, an didn't need it. That is when I learned about the "number 6 grind" so bought one of those blades. When I upgraded to a saw with a 12 inch blade, that became my third one.

[Dev Emch]

I use forrest blades almost to a fault. I have 14 inch and 12 inch Woodworker IIs and could not be happier with them. I also use a 12 inch Duraline sheet goods blade and it gets some serious exercise. Lastly I use a 10 inch forrest dado king dado blade set.

I did change a few things however. Rip blades need deeper gullets than cross blades and my rip blades are 14 inch WWIIs with a 30 tooth count and an ATB grind.

My cross cut blades are 14 inch WWIIs with a 40 tooth count and a flat top grind. This is more of a joinery blade than anything else.

I also had all my blades bored to a 1.25 inch arbor diameter.

Lastly, on larger professional saws, the saws come with massive saw collars. On saws like the oliver 88 or martin T-17, these frizbees weigh bucku much! So there is no need to run dampers. Also, the forrest blades are laser cut so they are dead log quiet and dont ring. If you have a blade that rings when you thump it, it will not only be deafening load but the kerf will be wider than its supposed to be. Any measurements based relative to the tooth outer set will be in error.

Hope this helps....

[Vaughn McMillan]

I haven't used the Forrest blades yet, and have no doubt they are great, based on what I've read here. I hope to give one a spin someday. (Man that's a bad pun.) That said, I've been very pleased with the results I've gotten from my Freud thin kerf rip and crosscut blades. (I don't recall the model numbers, but I believe they're both in the "Industrial" line.) Any cuts that have NOT been glue-ready were the result of my own technique, and not the fault of the blade.

I'm sure you'll be happy with the Forrest WWII, but if money is a bit tight, I don't think you'll regret going with the Freud blades. Also, as Mark mentioned, DeWalt has some good "bang for the buck" blades as well.

- Vaughn

[Dev Emch]

...

I'm sure you'll be happy with the Forrest WWII, but if money is a bit tight, I don't think you'll regret going with the Freud blades. Also, as Mark mentioned, DeWalt has some good "bang for the buck" blades as well.
...

- Vaughn

Vaughn did bring up some good points. Forrest is not cheap. You know your going to get taken to the cleaners when they put serial numbers on the blades.:rolleyes:

On the other side of the coin, when I slaughter baltic birch at $750 dollars per bunk plus the countless piles of hardwood, I cannot afford a blade that rips chunks out the kerf line leaving splinters and other unsavory damage. That is one way to purchase and reduce firewood to burnable sizes I guess.:p

I have heard quite a bit of good things about Freud blades. But one thing that is confusing is knowing which blade to use for which task. There are some general purpose rules but when you look at the latest Schmidt catalog or the Leitz catalog from germany, I have to say the selection is overwhelming. This is esp. true of Leitz.... you need a master's degree to dig through that last lexicon they published. Those guys are super intense!

[Vaughn McMillan]

...On the other side of the coin, when I slaughter baltic birch at $750 dollars per bunk plus the countless piles of hardwood, I cannot afford a blade that rips chunks out the kerf line leaving splinters and other unsavory damage. That is one way to purchase and reduce firewood to burnable sizes I guess.:p...
Fully understood, Dev. When you're doing it for a living like you and a lot of other Creekers are, the extra cost is simply the price of doing business the smart way, and you save or make money in the long run. To us hobbyists, the extra cost may or may not be justified in the end. Of course, if weekend warriors can afford to go with the higher-end professional production tools (and blades), I'm sure they'll seldom regret it. ;) OTOH, I've been able to sell the results of my (small scale) work so far using mid-priced blades like Freuds, and I've not had to throw any wood into the firewood pile as the result of the blades...yet. :D

- Vaughn

[Dev Emch]

Fully understood, Dev. When you're doing it for a living like you and a lot of other Creekers are, the extra cost is simply the price of doing business the smart way, and you save or make money in the long run. To us hobbyists, the extra cost may or may not be justified in the end. Of course, if weekend warriors can afford to go with the higher-end professional production tools (and blades), I'm sure they'll seldom regret it. ;) OTOH, I've been able to sell the results of my (small scale) work so far using mid-priced blades like Freuds, and I've not had to throw any wood into the firewood pile as the result of the blades...yet. :D

- Vaughn

Ya-but, it also works the other way. Right before X-mas I was wondering what to give my yuppie brother. So I made a cigar box out of splated ponderosa pine. I found a branch that had the blue splating but also had several wird shades of pink. It was almost like tulip wood with some blue stains. So I just resawed this stuff into 1/2 inch thick lumber. The surface finish was killer. I just need to go over it with 180 and 220 grit paper. Did not even need to plane it. I trued up the branches on my bandsaw and then took the trued up mini cant to the martin T-17 with the hunkin forrest blade and used a thickness guide to adjust the fence like a set works. SUPER KILLER! Trim to size, throw it into the Liegh D-4 for some tail work, slam-bam some blind dados, install a baltic birch 6 mm bottom, glue up, slice the lid off, install some brass hinges from the local ace and off to my bra for xmas. He loves it. So do I as it cost me nothing but two logs out of the woodpile.:D

[tod evans]

Everlast or Amana sawblade ROCK!!!!

Oh....did I mention that I like Everlast sawblades? :rolleyes: :D

i`m with dennis on this one. i keep a 30 tooth 12" on my rip saw and a 100 tooth 7deg hook atbr 12" on my panel saw. 80 tooth 10" atbr with a 5deg negitive rake on the chopsaw. everlast is available through schmidt. if you`re going to try and get by with only one blade for everything expect some compromises.......02 tod

[Dev Emch]

i`m with dennis on this one. i keep a 30 tooth 12" on my rip saw and a 100 tooth 7deg hook atbr 12" on my panel saw. 80 tooth 10" atbr with a 5deg negitive rake on the chopsaw. everlast is available through schmidt. if you`re going to try and get by with only one blade for everything expect some compromises.......02 tod

Tod.

Schmidt just began, sorta, recently carrying circs. I know they dont make them but get them under an OEM contract. So what your saying is that the schmidt blades are made by Everlast?

I need a special blade. It is about 10 to 12 inches in diameter and its a cross cutting blade. I would prefer carbide tooth. Lastly, there is no central arbor hole. Instead, it has a multi hole hole circle. This is for my tenoner. The blade that came with it was shot and pure HSS. Do you think schmidt could make this blade?

[tod evans]

Tod.

Schmidt just began, sorta, recently carrying circs. I know they dont make them but get them under an OEM contract. So what your saying is that the schmidt blades are made by Everlast?

I need a special blade. It is about 10 to 12 inches in diameter and its a cross cutting blade. I would prefer carbide tooth. Lastly, there is no central arbor hole. Instead, it has a multi hole hole circle. This is for my tenoner. The blade that came with it was shot and pure HSS. Do you think schmidt could make this blade?

i`d bet 10 bucks on it.

[scott spencer]

Love my Forrest. Freud has the F410 which they sell to compete directly with the Forrest...in my experience the others do not cut comparably. Rockler has the F410 for ~ $75. The Ridge Carbide TS2000 is also similar with thicker carbide....more expensive yet. None of the 50T-60T blades I've tried from Leitz, Freud, Oldham or DeWalt has cut as well, although most were good values and produced glue ready cuts.

Tenyru Gold Medal and DeWalt 7657 are similar designs and said to give similar results for less money...the DW7657 is ~ $50...haven't tried either.

When you think about the price difference between a Forrest and another decent blade, and the overall percentage that is of the entire saw system, it makes the Forrest price alot more attractive. :)

http://www.epinions.com/content_145552674436

[Tom Jones III]

I started out with a $50 (full retail) Freud combo blade. Sorry I don't know the model number, I've used it so much that all the writing is gone. When it needed sharpening I got Freuds ultimate crosscut blade and glue line rip. Together they cost me $180. While each individual blade performs slightly better, looking back I should have bought a second combo blade for $50 and saved the extra $130.

While I've never used the Forrest, I can't imagine any single blade outperforming the Freud combo.

[Andy London]

In my own experience, it also depends on the saw in question. I have a Delta contractors, an old sears contractors (which for the past 16 years has been simply amazing) and a General 350 cabinetsaw. I can take a cheap blade and get excellent results on the General, at the same time take an expensive blade like the WWII and put it on the Delta with fair results.

95% of my work is with exotics and figured wood, which are fairly brutal on blades. I have used the WWII but can't get them sharpened properly here in Canada, shipping back to the states and all that is involved is too expensive.

Currently I am using a Frued Glue line in the cabinet saw, results are like glass, over the past 16 years I have had a chance to try what seems like every blade available and my personal favorite of all time was a Vermont American 40 tooth, it was just amazing however they no longer make the blade in question and it has been sharpened away. The least liked blade I have used was a Dimar and it was...IMHO...expensive. Results were good to poor and it only lasted about 6 weeks, generally I can get three months.

My suggestion....if a contractors saw and you live in the states, probably the WWII, if a cabinetsaw then look at the Frued Glue line blades.

[CPeter James]

I have both the Forrest WWII and the Ridge Carbide TS2000 and like them both but latley have been getting better results with the Ridge. With either of them, you cry a lot, pay the price and then enjoy the blade for years to come. They are worth the big money as far as quality of cut goes. I do have a Freud Glue Line rip blade and it does a nice job on ripping.

CPeter

[Jim Becker]

The one thing I want to contribute to this discussion is that I feel a quality (and initially more expensive) blade is a better value and less costly in the long run. Whether Forrest, Freud, Amana or whatever, the better blades have more carbide so they can be sharpened more times, better carbide so they stay sharper longer, and generally last for many, many years of normal use, especially for a hobbyist on a limited budget. I no longer have the numbers, but I remember doing a little analysis comparing the 5 year cost of a Forrest WW-II with "disposable" blades from the 'borg. The Forrest won hands down and cut substantially better.

In my shop, I run a 40t general purpose blade most of the time and have a dedicated ripping blade for times when I'm working with thicker material or ripping down rough stock for milling. I feel that is the ideal combination. While I happen to like and use Forrest blades, I'd certainly choose the same configurations with any other brand. For someone really only able to do one blade, the 30t WW-II is also a good value, gives a normal clean cut you can barely tell from the 40t version on crosscuts and will rip slightly thicker material with less effort that the 40t blade.

[John Viola]

Another vote for the Ridge TS2000.

I can tell you from experience though that carbide teeth, even on expensive blades, will chip when you drop said blade onto a concrete floor. Then your expensive blade gets even more so by having another tooth brazed on and then having the thing resharpened. :(

[Michael Ballent]

1/8" kerf saw blades do not need stabilizers, and unless you are ripping really thick wood with a thin kerf blade, then you are getting buying much, and then you are limited the height of the blade because the stabilizer get in the way as you raise the blade.

I love my Forrest, but there are many choices out there... I cannot really use the Freuds because I have a SawStop and their coatings interfere with the electrical signals sent through the blade. :( They can be used, but they said that it takes a little longer for it to register, or wait for the coating to wear off a bit...

[Chris Dodge]

I have two Forest II blades and they work great! They cut so smoothly that I can do glueups without jointing them. I can't ask for better than that.

[Bob Yarbrough]

Had good luck with the freud glue-line.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I spin mostly Freud stuff. It's relatively inexpensive, available everywhere, and seems to do a good job.

Although a specialty blade, I recently purchased a high alternate top bevel (hi-ATB) Freud blade (FS10) for melamine sheet goods and high pressure laminates. The teeth look real aggressive, but the cut was unbelievable. No chip out on the underside of melamine what so ever! It did not matter whether I used a zero clearance insert or a blade stabilizer. In fact, I stopped using these attachments. However, the Freud rep said that the hi-ATB style blades dull quickly.

If you are using a cabinet style saw with a 3hp motor, I recommend staying with full kerf blades (1/8"). Thin kerf blades are great for lighter duty contractor saws and less agressive for those climb cuts on radial arm saws, but they tend to flutter more regardless of stabilizers. Some are teflon coated, some are not. I have no idea if there is any performance benefit to teflon.

One more point from the Freud rep. He said pitch build up is the great enemy of prematuring dulling due to heat build up. Also, Freud recommends that the blade cutting height should be about 1/2 tooth above the work.

For my next blade though, I might splurge and give the Woodworker II a shot to see what all the hubub is about! :)

cheers, Jeff

[Marcus Ward]

One more point from the Freud rep. He said pitch build up is the great enemy of prematuring dulling due to heat build up. Also, Freud recommends that the blade cutting height should be about 1/2 tooth above the work.
I can believe it on the pitch. Do you get pitch buildup sawing hardwood? Would it behove me to hang onto my old saw to saw pine and 2x4's on? Also on the blade height... I've always thought that, just enough to cut the wood, but then I read that that caused greater frequency of kickback because of the workpiece climbing onto the top of the blade. I also read that you should raise the blade till the bottom of the gullets are clearing the workpiece so they can do their work. Anyone else have some opinions on these issues?

[Doug Shepard]

One of these days I may pick up a WWII. I've got their Dado King and it gives a real nice cut. For now I'm using Freuds (Sigmund I think?). I use their glue line rip for ripping only and an 80 tooth for everything else. It's a minor inconvenience to have to change blades or plan around cutting setups but nothing I cant live with. There's just been too many other things clamoring for my money. I keep putting the WWII on the nice-to-have instead of the got-to-have list.

[Jim Becker]

I cannot really use the Freuds because I have a SawStop and their coatings interfere with the electrical signals sent through the blade.

Buy the non-coated versions. Outside of the one I used to run on my miter saw, all of the Freud blades I've owned have been bare metal. (I don't like the teflon coated blades...it's un-necessary)

[John Miliunas]

10" Forrest WWII on the TS and the 12" Chopmaster on the CMS. No regrets. :) Tried the Freud "glue line". Regret it. :( I do know a couple guys running the Amana blades and are happy with them. Previously, I ran SystiMatic blades, which are substantially less $$$ than the Forrest and was also quite happy, though they tend to burn a touch on some species.:) :cool:

[scott spencer]

Buy the non-coated versions. Outside of the one I used to run on my miter saw, all of the Freud blades I've owned have been bare metal. (I don't like the teflon coated blades...it's un-necessary)

It's interesting to note that so many of the elite blades are uncoated, even those coming from manufacturers who offer a coating...DW7657 (argueably DW's best blade), Freud F410, Tenryu Gold Medal, Amana Prestige, Forrest, Ridge Carbide, Leitz, Everlast, etc.

[Alan Turner]

I have a Forrest WWII 40 tooth, full kerf, and use it for just about everything. I used to change blades from rip to crosscut, a PITA, but the WWII does both just fine. Then, with a post on another forum alluded to here, I tracked down a Leitz rep who was selling out their branded blades, labeled Irwin (lost the Irwin contract I think). I ordered 2 of the 40 tooth, AB, full kerf, and the quality was equal to the WWII. So, I called him back and bought the rest of his branded stock in this size. 8 more. Price? $17@. Several of these were for friends, but I have 5 left (+ the orig 2) and now just change them out when they get pitch, and then clean a bunch at once.

If you can find Leitz, I suspect they are less money than the WWII and in my view, are their equal. Note that I rarely cut anythiing but hardwoods so my views are counseld by that experience. I suspect that their other blades are excellent also.

[John Miliunas]

It's interesting to note that so many of the elite blades are uncoated, even those coming from manufacturers who offer a coating...DW7657 (argueably DW's best blade), Freud F410, Tenryu Gold Medal, Amana Prestige, Forrest, Ridge Carbide, Leitz, Everlast, etc.

Scott, you bring up an interesting point. I have often questioned the "Teflon" or whatever "super-slick" coatings applied to the body of the blades. Why? Well, what's the point of it??? If the body was exactly the same thickness of the actual carbide cutting tips, fine. BUT, we already know that's not the case. So, what's it there for? The only time the body of the blade should even touch the wood is if the blade itself wobbles. If the blade is manufactured with stringent specs, the body of the blade should never touch the wood to begin with! :D In my way of thinking, heat buildup is one of our "enemies" when it comes to burn-free cuts and additional pitch build-up. By that, the blade body should be acting as a heat sink, of sorts, to carry heat away from the cutting tips, which are there to actually DO the work. With additional coatings on the body of the blade, wouldn't that actually be insulating the metal, which should be carrying the heat away??? Me thinks this could be part of the reason the better, higher quality blades do not have any of these fancy-dancy coatings. :) Hey, I ain't no injuneer and, as such, just MHO....:) :D

[Charles McCracken]

The only time the body of the blade should even touch the wood is if the blade itself wobbles. If the blade is manufactured with stringent specs, the body of the blade should never touch the wood to begin with!
In theory this is correct, but take a look at any blade you have and see if the print that was on it when new remains. You will no doubt find evidence of material rubbing the plate of your blades. A good coating is effective at reducing friction from this contact. It also protects from rust and makes the plate easier to clean and more resistant to pitch buildup.

Charles M
Freud America, Inc.

[John Miliunas]

In theory this is correct, but take a look at any blade you have and see if the print that was on it when new remains. You will no doubt find evidence of material rubbing the plate of your blades. A good coating is effective at reducing friction from this contact. It also protects from rust and makes the plate easier to clean and more resistant to pitch buildup.

Charles M
Freud America, Inc.

Hi Charles,

I have payed attention to this and, on both of my Forrest blades, there is an absolute minimal amount of degradation to the print on the blades. I note that even on my much older SystiMatic blades, the printing is also still quite clear and legible. FWIW, all of the blades I refer to a full 1/8" kerf blades, as I don't use thin kerf for any application(s). Also, in the interest of "fair play", the print area on my Freud adjustable dado still remains quite clear and easy to read.:D :cool:

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Do you get pitch buildup sawing hardwood?

Marcus,
I'm assuming it happens because I always have something building up on my blades and I rarely use softwoods. It may not be only from natural wood, I also use plywood, and engineered wood as hardboard, mdf and melamine.
Jeff

[Zahid Naqvi]

Dewalt DW7657...is a good blade and similar much less$$$$

Another vote for the DW7657, $40 something from Amazon with no shipping. I got it last week on Mark's recommendation. I've only made a few test cuts, but I like the results, real smooth edges even on a borg ply.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

This thread is why Sawmill Creek needs to change their policies whereby all members should submit a list of all their credit cards so when a thread like this comes along, SMC can put a 5 day hold on your cards as a cooling off period.

Ahh, never mind...I'd probably just use a personal check.

Jeff :)

[Paul B. Cresti]

Marcus,
Wow this post has gone around! I give you my .02 also. I currently use Prazisa blades on my MM S35. I use both the combo and laminate blades they offer. They ain't cheap but I like them. I do have a Freud heavy rip blade but rarely use it. I find my combo does what I need for all of my general work. I hate those thin kerf blades! I use only .125 (I think) for ALL of my blades. I would suggest staying with the same size kerf for all of your blades and using a set of blade stabilizers (assuming you are buying a CS). I use a stablizers when I had a Unisaw and they did just what they were suppose to "stabilize" the blade and provide glass smooth cuts.... and that was with a cheaper Frued blade. Just remember if you do use stabilizers that you rip fence needs to be adjusted for it. If you take off the stabilizer your fence will also be off.

[Jim Becker]

This thread is why Sawmill Creek needs to change their policies whereby all members should submit a list of all their credit cards so when a thread like this comes along, SMC can put a 5 day hold on your cards as a cooling off period.

LOL! But I don't think that Aaron and Keith are particularly interested in the "responsibility" that would come with that kind of data...so you'll just have to hand your credit cards to LOYL to hold. Um...oh...well, maybe not.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Just remember if you do use stabilizers that you rip fence needs to be adjusted for it. If you take off the stabilizer your fence will also be off.

In addition, if you change the angle of cut (that is, a beveled rip or crosscut), the center of rotation of the cutting angle on the trunnion will no longer be located at the top of the throat plate. So even if you change your fence's measuring tape calibration, the distance between the blade and fence will only accurately apply to a 90 degree cut. I might be splitting hairs here though.

I've never notice any improvements using stabilizers with full kerf blades. However, I still use the outer stabilizer disc against the arbor nut just because I bought them. I continue to butt the blade straight up against the inner arbor flange of the saw.

cheer, Jeff :)

[Jim Becker]

Just remember if you do use stabilizers that you rip fence needs to be adjusted for it. If you take off the stabilizer your fence will also be off.

Not necessarily true...application dependent. Generally speaking, if a single stablizer disk is used and it's on the "nut" side of the blade, it usually will have zero effect on the fence setting. This is the case with the Forrest stablizer, for example, which is a single disk system that goes on the "outside" of the blade. If you happen to put anything between the blade and the arbor flange, yes, adjustments need to be made to the fence.