High knob on Stanley Bailey bench planes?

[Mike Manning]

I have a Stanley Bailey No 4 plane type 13. This was the first instance of the Stanley changing from the low knob to the high knob. The high knob for this plane has vertical cracks from the bottom and is now missing pieces there at the base. I need to replace it. I know I could use a low knob but I'm curious about a high knob replacement. Type 13 doesn't have the raised rib base for the knob which started with type 14. Is there a difference in the type 13 high knobs from those that followed with type 14 and beyond? Am I looking for specifically a type 13 high knob or just any Bailey No 4 high knob? Thanks!

[Jim Koepke]

The high knobs were used on some of the late type 11 through type 13 planes.

They are a different knob than the type 14 and later knobs. These knobs were made to fit inside the ring and not have all the force against the base of the knob.

Visit > http://www.rexmill.com/planes101/typing/typing.htm < scroll down to type 13 & 14. The type 13 knob has vertical sides at the bottom of the knob. The type 14 have a slight angle to fit into the ring.

jtk

[Mike Manning]

Thank you Jim! Are you aware of any reason why a No 4 low knob be an issue? Given that the high knob pre-ring (late type 11 thru type 13) may be scarce and thus more expensive, if the body wasn't changed (the high point receiver for the knob screw) for the early high knob then the low should be fine. Thoughts?

[Jim Koepke]

The only issue to my knowledge is the bolt holding the low knob and high knob are different lengths.

jtk

[Mike Manning]

Of course. Thanks Jim.

[Jim Koepke]

Glad to be of assistance.

jtk

[Tom Bussey]

I guess I do not understand what seems to go on with Stanley Bailey planes. The first thing that is asked or considered is what type is it and are the parts original to the plane. We are talking about a plane, that even at auction around here, won't bring over $20. I mean most people spend well over $20 on incidentals like pop, coffer at Storbeck's. or what ever and never give it a thought. So my question is what difference does it make as to what front knob it has. A front knob made for a plane that has the circle will fit and work on an earlier plane. Put on a different front knob and get on with your life. Here in Nashua Iowa a golf cart will get you anywhere you wish to go in the same time as it would take in a Cadillac Escalade.

I guess my point is, the only reason for a planes existences is to remove wood and if it can't do that then it is worthless. And a LN plane with a bull blade is just as worthless as a Hardware Hank plane with a dull blade. And a plane with a missing front knob no mater what type also fits in that category

I bought a Wards Master #7 a while back for 2 dollars at a yard sale . Do you thing I ever considered it the front Knob was correct of that model of plane. And by the way a frog from a a Bailey interchanges with the Wards plane.

If you wish tp pay shipping I will send you 5 or 6 front knob that will work for free.

[Mike Manning]

Do you feel better now Tom? :0)

[Tom Bussey]

yes I do. It feels great to say that the sacred cow of plane types isn't important to at least one woodworker.

[Jim Koepke]

yes I do. It feels great to say that the sacred cow of plane types isn't important to at least one woodworker.

Many of my planes could be considered Frankenplanes due to mixed type parts.

For me a short knob is preferred. They have been used on all but a couple of my type 12 and later planes.

The large adjuster wheel is also preferred. Most of my type 7 through 11 have the larger wheel.

Part of knowing about the various types is knowing which parts will mix well and which will not.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Hmmmm, maybe this tall knob is a bit......much..
457709
And...they wanted $8 for the plane, including the knob....

[Jim Koepke]

Hmmmm, maybe this tall knob is a bit......much..
457709
And...they wanted $8 for the plane, including the knob....

That could be a legendary "rare type" "one of a kind" worth hundreds if not thousands to someone on ebay. :D

jtk

[Tom M King]

I have some of both, and I can say that it's not something that I have ever thought about. I don't even remember which ones have the low knob, and which ones have the high knob. Maybe for someone who does a lot more planing than me, it might matter. Sorry, but I can't tell you what Type number any of my planes are either. They all work good though.

[Mike Manning]

yes I do. It feels great to say that the sacred cow of plane types isn't important to at least one woodworker.

Good. I do understand your position and agree they are meant to be used. If someone else derives pleasure from using their Stanley or Sargeant or Clifton planes with era correct parts or likes painting their vises pink then good for them. If they want to let them sit on a shelf and they get their pleasure in just knowing they have them then good for them. YMMV and that's okay too.

[Mike Manning]

Hmmmm, maybe this tall knob is a bit......much..
And...they wanted $8 for the plane, including the knob....

Steven, I'd call that a steering wheel! ;0)

[steven c newman]

Replaced a bad knob...
457883
Where the bolt sits too low....with..
457884
One where the bolt sits flush with the top of the knob......other one needed 2 washers ( since MIA) to get close.....and one was a lock washer, to boot. I may go back and refinish.....maybe when I re-do the rear handle...right now it is working just fine..
457885

[Tom Bussey]

I agree with you 100%. I never thought of painting a vise pink but my 4 year old Granddaughter would love a pink vise on her work bench. But back to my point. If I post a picture of a plane I will get asked what type is it? and then there will be a discussion if the adjusting wheel is not correct or it should have a low knob. and so on. So again my question is are you a wood worker or a tool collector or a tool collector that dabbles at wood working. I have a friend who can show you how he cuts dovetails by hand. Can show you how he makes the cut and how to use the chisel, but he is show and tell because he has never cut a complete dove tail in his life, not even one joint. He also has a few different sizes of Bed Rock planes of one type and they haven't been used in 10 years or more.

All of this is great for him. But it is I who gets asked to build something for him, he always has something wrong with one of his tools or a reason why he can't, but all the parts on his hand planes are correct.

I just think it is a shame to discourage beginning woodworkers from getting a plane because a plane has a low know and it is a type 15 plane. or it is a franken plane because the lever cap got ruined and it was replaced with a newer one. If you like larger adjustment wheels then change it out. Some frogs interchange with different types and others don't And I agree these should be left alone. the same with chip breakers and it is most important when buying after market blades and chip breakers.

If someone else derives pleasure from using their Stanley or Sergeant or Clifton planes with era correct parts it is fine with me but it is also okay to replace a front knob with something that is not correct to make the plane usable. And there is a big difference between a Stanley and a Clifton plane.

So we are back to the beginning are we going to use the plane to build with, that is take a shaving or let it set on a shelf to gather dust but it looks good because the parts match.

Here on this forum plane types is a sacred cow and I don't think it is and have said so. And it it is okay to make an old plane useful again even it the front knob is not correct.

[Jim Koepke]

Here on this forum plane types is a sacred cow and I don't think it is and have said so. And it it is okay to make an old plane useful again even it the front knob is not correct.

To me, plane types are not a sacred cow, but knowledge has value.

My planes are all users with the bench planes being from type 4 through type 17. It is easy to understand why some might like the challenge of assembling a set of a single type whether it be type 11 or type 18. (The later type was a short production with the depth adjuster having skewed knurling. These often catch my eye from across the room. They are usually inspected and enjoyed, but one has never come home with me.)

For me knowing about the different types has paid off when rust hunting. Often when looking at planes while showing the shop owner/keeper a few things about their wares has been rewarded with a price reduction.

It also engages them in conversation to get a feel for what kind of deal might be possible.

BTW, my personal preference is for type 13 or earlier. These will all accept a low or high knob. It is also a type or two before the ogee frog.

jtk