Low Angle Jointer and Smooth Plane... Keep or Sell?

[Erich Weidner]

It's been many months since I last posted or done much woodworking. But I managed to knock out a few picture frames and get the prints we bought in England some 10 years ago framed. :)
Resting on the table where I cut the mats and glass (and very much in the way), were my Veritas Low angle smoother and jointer. Never used (sitting here in the house so they wouldn't rust just sitting in the garage unprotected).

I don't have enough room in the Dutch tool chest I built last year for them, and frankly feel like I've probably already got too many planes (I keep trying to be a minimalist... somewhat successfully). I'm considering selling them as I suspect I might be able to let them go for what I paid for them or a bit more given current market conditions. But I don't want to regret that down the road.

Anyone who principally uses bevel down planes and also has these... should I keep them or sell them?

[Jim Koepke]

My reason for purchasing a low angle jack plane was for use on a shooting board. This was before LN or LV offered a plane specifically for shooting. My LA Jack tends to be a shelf sitter. At this time the space isn't critical nor is the money.

Right now the price level is likely the best it will be for previously owned tools. No guarantee of what will happen in the future.

You do mention the lack of space as one point for selling. If the money will fill a need, it might be the tipping point for selling.

If you have something to fill the void left if these are sold, that might be another point in the time to sell column.

If the money doesn't fill a hole or would just be frittered away on various things, no sale.

If you can see a need for these in the future, no sale.

There are many tools in my shop that seem to sit and do nothing. Then something comes along that they do best and it was worth keeping them around. There are also many duplicates. They take turns and occasionally a tool breaks or is damaged. It is nice to have a back up.

A hard decision to ponder. My problem is so often my tools feel like personal friends one wants to stay awhile longer. That spare chisel may be worth $30 or $40. It feels a lot better than the money in my hands. Money just seems to flow out of my wallet without much thought. The chisel will stay with me and a lot of thought goes into where it will go.

jtk

[john zulu]

I would keep the set. I have 2 sets one bevel down and bevel up. Both very useful in their own right.

[Derek Cohen]

It's been many months since I last posted or done much woodworking. But I managed to knock out a few picture frames and get the prints we bought in England some 10 years ago framed. :)
Resting on the table where I cut the mats and glass (and very much in the way), were my Veritas Low angle smoother and jointer. Never used (sitting here in the house so they wouldn't rust just sitting in the garage unprotected).

I don't have enough room in the Dutch tool chest I built last year for them, and frankly feel like I've probably already got too many planes (I keep trying to be a minimalist... somewhat successfully). I'm considering selling them as I suspect I might be able to let them go for what I paid for them or a bit more given current market conditions. But I don't want to regret that down the road.

Anyone who principally uses bevel down planes and also has these... should I keep them or sell them?

Hi Erich

If you do not use a plane because you prefer another plane, then that is a good reason to sell the unused plane.

In regard to usefulness, the BU planes remain superior users when set up correctly. In my case, with interlocked grain, a high cutting angle does a very fine job of controlling tearout. Some prefer the feedback from a lower centre of gravity (compared with a BD plane).

What usually determines if something stays or leaves in my workshop is whether it is a user or not.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[James Pallas]

I’ve come to the point where I only use BU planes. I’m one of the ones that prefers the low center of effort. I kept a #6, 2–#5s, 2-4s. They haven’t been out for a while. I gave the rest of the fleet to SIL. I do have several irons, 17 I think, for the BUs Makes adapting to the needs easy. If you don’t need a tool send it down the road, you won’t need to clean, store, or make repairs.

[steven c newman]

Still trying to get a #62 to stop tearing out Ash...

So..you are asking a fellow that has at least 2 of each size plane from a #3 to a #7....with a #8? In the smoother "section"....there are 2 (at least) from Stanley, Sargent, Millers Falls....in both the #3 and #4 size...


I do have a few other Bevel up planes......but, they are all Block Planes....


Hmmmm:rolleyes:

[Tom M King]

I never bought one of either because I never had a need for one. I do have one of each, and multiples of some, of all the other types, and they do get used.

[Derek Cohen]

Still trying to get a #62 to stop tearing out Ash...

So..you are asking a fellow that has at least 2 of each size plane from a #3 to a #7....with a #8? In the smoother "section"....there are 2 (at least) from Stanley, Sargent, Millers Falls....in both the #3 and #4 size...


I do have a few other Bevel up planes......but, they are all Block Planes....


Hmmmm:rolleyes:

Steven, when you use a BU plane, such as a LA Jack, you have to pay attention to the bevel angle. You cannot use it with the factory 25 degree primary bevel on anything other than end grain, as you have reported here in the past. This is a recipe for tearout on face grain. But ... add a 50 degree secondary bevel, for a 62 degree cutting angle, and you will be well rewarded with a beautiful finish.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

I never bought one of either because I never had a need for one. I do have one of each, and multiples of some, of all the other types, and they do get used.

Tom, you have been at this game for a long time, and have your preferred methods. Plus, I imagine that the woods you use are fairly benign by Australian standards. That is, reasonably straight- grained and not immediately vulnerable to tearout. My local wood selection is not so. BU planes offered a way to deal with the reversing grain owing to their ease in being configured with high cutting angles. This was an alternative to using a BD plane with a high bed angle. It was only circa 2012/13, when the closed chipbreaker was discussed, that Stanley planes became another option. Since then I have used BD planes for most if my work, simply because the blades are easier to freehand sharpen (one needs a honing guide for BU planes). I do believe that BD planes can work a little better, but this is relative to my wood, not the average in the US. Having said this, BU planes remain as viable as ever. Just because BD planes have arisen, does not mean that BU have dropped back. They retain the potential for being superlative users.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Curt Putnam]

Erich,

I use my Veritas LA jointer in lieu of a tailed jointer. But I cheat; I use the detachable fence. I also use it and.or the jack to flatten faces well enough to go through my planer. Being old, fat, and less-abled, I prefer to do most of my milling and dimensioning with tailed power. In these roles (milling) the jointer is my most used plane and the jack the 2nd.

I find that I prefer smaller smoothers. I have a sweet little Bailey # 3 and a Tablesaw Tom # 4 and an LN bronze # 4 and a Veritas # 3 sized LA smoother. As you might surmise, I do not believe in minimalism although I do see the benefits for reduced maintenance.

So with that loquacious preamble in mind, I would advocate selling only of you need the money. There is another case wherre they would be forever shelf queens but based on your prior posts I am not sure that your experience is yet sufficient to make that judgement. Scarcity will be the market rule for the next 2 pr 3 years.

[David Bassett]

It's been many months since I last posted or done much woodworking. But I managed to knock out a few picture frames and get the prints we bought in England some 10 years ago framed. :)
Resting on the table where I cut the mats and glass (and very much in the way), were my Veritas Low angle smoother and jointer. Never used (sitting here in the house so they wouldn't rust just sitting in the garage unprotected).

I don't have enough room in the Dutch tool chest I built last year for them, and frankly feel like I've probably already got too many planes (I keep trying to be a minimalist... somewhat successfully). I'm considering selling them as I suspect I might be able to let them go for what I paid for them or a bit more given current market conditions. But I don't want to regret that down the road.

Anyone who principally uses bevel down planes and also has these... should I keep them or sell them?

I think some people use them by personal preference. It seems the only task for which they're unanimously agreed to be superior is shaving end grain. And, yes, the used market seems high right now so selling now is (probably) better than selling later.

If you don't use them, don't see a use for them in your future, and they're in your way, sell.

But... never mind. I was going to suggest keeping one as a potential shooting plane, but checked the LV website and it looks like the two you have don't have the smooth square sides you'd want for a shooting plane.

While you still are feeling doubts a "plane sack" is a relatively cheap and easy way to protect the planes, so you can stash them in the bottom compartment of your DTC or in a big box on the back of a shelf.

[Erich Weidner]

While you still are feeling doubts a "plane sack" is a relatively cheap and easy way to protect the planes, so you can stash them in the bottom compartment of your DTC or in a big box on the back of a shelf.

Lol. I'm out of plane socks, and the lower compartment is already of of socked planes. :) So... I need to build the planned lower cabinet for that tool chest anyway.

All,
Thanks for the musings. I don't need the money. Right now I don't have a good place to store them, true.

Honestly, I bought these after I started to get a clue about needing a jointer and was having issues with the aftermarket handles I installed on my Sheffield made Stanley #4. Then I ended up on a multi year hiatus from woodworking. Before I got back into it in 2019 I had dived into a lot of reading and decided I needed BD planes, and specifically a #8 and #5. I bought LN versions and also replaced my #4 with a LN. I had actually forgot that I even owned the BD jointer! (These planes were in a closet). Fast forward to late 2019 to early 2020 where I added several Veritas and LN specialty planes to the set.

I'm kind of retroactively feeling buyer's remorse for these never used, expensive BD planes. Sometimes I go a bit overboard on buying things... I guess there is also the thought of even more blades to sharpen and new tools to have to learn to setup... All which add up to tell me "Sell". Yet, so many times in life I've given something away that I didn't think I needed anymore and was taking up space and... then it turns out I did need it. :) Also, selling always seems like a pain. I've not used ebay in a decade, it doesn't look as friendly these days. (I just poked around at creating a listing). Then there is the classifieds here and Craigslist. Not really even sure which is the way to go for something like this... but I digress.

I'm going to re-read all the responses here and ponder some more. I usually miss things on my first pass through.

[Erich Weidner]

But... never mind. I was going to suggest keeping one as a potential shooting plane, but checked the LV website and it looks like the two you have don't have the smooth square sides you'd want for a shooting plane.



I actually have a Veritas shooting plane, so I'm covered there already.

[Rob Luter]

I have a LN Low Angle Jack and previously had the LV version. I have multiple irons for it and rarely us the 25 degree grind as I have a dedicated shooting plane. Instead I grind it with a steep angle as Derek suggests and get great results on squirrely grain. My vintage #7 sits unused most of the time but it's like new so I'll hang on to it.

[Tom M King]

Tom, you have been at this game for a long time, and have your preferred methods. Plus, I imagine that the woods you use are fairly benign by Australian standards. That is, reasonably straight- grained and not immediately vulnerable to tearout. My local wood selection is not so. BU planes offered a way to deal with the reversing grain owing to their ease in being configured with high cutting angles. This was an alternative to using a BD plane with a high bed angle. It was only circa 2012/13, when the closed chipbreaker was discussed, that Stanley planes became another option. Since then I have used BD planes for most if my work, simply because the blades are easier to freehand sharpen (one needs a honing guide for BU planes). I do believe that BD planes can work a little better, but this is relative to my wood, not the average in the US. Having said this, BU planes remain as viable as ever. Just because BD planes have arisen, does not mean that BU have dropped back. They retain the potential for being superlative users.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Absolutely. I never said that no one needed one. I very specifically said that I had never needed one. I have never had a piece of Australian wood in my hands.

An old carpenter/woodworker/craftsman of multiple disciplines, showed me how to set the chipbreaker close in the early 1980's. That was before there was an internet. Just because someone published the information, doesn't mean it was the first time it was ever known.

His name was Jack Jordan (pronounced Jer-dan). I think maybe his first initials were L.W., but may not be remembering that accurately.). He died in the early '90's, but his obituary is online, and states about how he was known to be a great wood craftsman. He was a big gunner, on a battleship in WWII. He couldn't hear a thing out of the ear that was next to the gun. He was also a rifle marksman, and people came to him to buy ammo that he loaded, to use in competition. He worked for me for a good ten years, before he retired, and just worked in his shop in his backyard until he didn't wake up from a nap in his recliner, while his Wife was cooking dinner, one night.

[Derek Cohen]

Sorry Tom. I did not intend to imply that you would not have worked woods with complex grain. Just that you had established your way of working wood (using Stanley planes) long before the BU planes began to become popular.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mark Gibney]

I never bought one of either because I never had a need for one. I do have one of each, and multiples of some, of all the other types, and they do get used.

I have to say I really enjoyed this post, Tom. It reads like a page of Victorian childrens' poetry in a dusty book, the sort of lines my mother can still quote at will.

[Matthew Hills]

My LAJ is getting some occasional use:
- edge jointing (no camber on blade and low center of mass)
- toothed blade is good for some rougher work where a cambered blade can get really deep tearout

Matt

[Jacob Mac]

Projects change, needs change, shop size, desire, physical ability etc. I would keep them around.

[Thomas Crawford]

I second Derek's opinion on the high angle secondary bevel. I have Stanley #3 and 4 1/2 that I like to use, but for grain that has any complication at all I use my BU smoother with a 50 degree secondary bevel. I know some people might be able to set up a traditional plane to do it but for me the effort in trying to figure out where to put the d**n frog and how big a cut to take are not worth my time. If I didn't have the bevel up smoother I'd at least have a LN #3 with a high angle frog.

I have the bevel up smooth, jack and jointer. I could most easily part with the jointer. The jack I have multiple blades for (25 and ~40 degree) and it does most of its duty on my shooting board.

[Thomas Wilson]

Everyone seems to have missed the possibility of using your planes as objets d’art on your coffee table. This is sort of a joke but I did have a “tool wall” in my apartment when I was working away from home for a couple of years. The planes and saws flanked my Studley tool cabinet
print. I also had a silver nut dish on the filled with various nuts of the mechanical sort. Still have the nut dish
.457473

[Prashun Patel]

Surprised you don’t use that jointer. I love it. Low center of gravity just feels better to me.

I sold my smoother because my num 4 works so well.

[glenn bradley]

If the tools are unused (including as decorative or collectable items) then they are just taking up space. If you do not use a jointer much and have been at it for a while I do not know that you would suddenly "need" a jointer. It is hard to imagine not needing a smoother as I have 4 that all get used for different smoothing operations. all of our answers will vary depending on what we do in our own shops. Good luck.

P.s. Prashun and I are both in the LV BU Jointer-lovers club.

[Erich Weidner]

Hi Glenn,

I do actually use my BD #5, #8, and #4 on every project. As well as my BU block plane. But I've just never used the BU jointer or smoother. :)

[J. Greg Jones]

I keep telling myself I should part with my BU jointer because the non-smooth sides on a jointer is a deal breaker for me. I’m constantly canting the jointer along the board to check the surface, so I stick with a Miller’s Falls #22 for jointing tasks. Otherwise, the BU jointer is a joy to use.

[Jim R Edwards]

If you dont use the tools I would sell them and buy something you want. The BD planes you have will work with most North American hardwoods.