Buyer's regret over Domino XL (DF 700)?

[Jon Endres]

Just curious if any of you that have purchased a DF 700 have had major buyer's regret (other then the obvious - price!)? I am just a hobbyist but I'm "ramping up" so to speak, have been trying to find the best solution for various projects including a couple of large dining tables, entry doors, a china hutch and sideboard, and coming to terms with the fact that the easiest solution is likely the most expensive solution. I am about to drop $2000 on a Domino XL kit, including extra bits, tenon stock and a couple of aftermarket shims and adapters so that I can do everything from 5 mm to 14 mm tenons. I know pretty much everywhere is backordered right now but I've found one I can get *today*.

I've looked at all of the other solutions for joinery that I can think of - pantorouter, hand-cut mortises & tenons, benchtop mortisers, beadlock doweling kits, etc. Maybe there's some others I haven't found yet. All of them have a significant cost and none seem to be as easy and painless as the Festool system.

I know these things keep their value really well, so I'm not worried if I decide to get rid of it. I guess I'm looking for anyone out there to resolve my lingering doubt before I pull the trigger.

[Prashun Patel]

I love my df700. I upgraded from the 500 and it has been a good decision for me.


My advice is skip the tenon stock and shims and doodads.

Just get the seneca small bit adapter and make ur own tenon stock.

[Patrick Kane]

Same as Prashun, i had a 500 for a year or two and upgraded to the 700.

Depending on your work, the shims would be handy for plywood. Unlike the 500, the 700 is compromised in that regard. The 700 will put a 5-6mm mortise about 1/32" from the surface of 3/4" material. However, for solid timber furniture, the 700 is superb. Especially if you find yourself joining curved or angled workpieces. Something that would be a real PITA with jigs etc at the table saw becomes a 2 minute process with the domino.

Sometimes i make my own tenon stock, and sometimes i use the festool tenons i have. I think making your own tenon stock kinda defeats the time savings of the domino, but if you make tons of long blanks at once, then its not so bad. I only buy the small ones, but i make the 12-14mm tenons. Its a good repurpose for offcuts and ripcuts of 4/4 material.

[Richard Link]

I too love my Domino XL. I've used it to build several large projects over the past year including a twin bed, an outdoor two person swing and recently a 150 lb Sapele 6 foot entrance gate. I have a bunch of other M+T joinery tools but this one is quick, easy and accurate if you are working with large items and can live with floating tenons. I also have a domino 500 so I haven't tricked my XL out to do tiny mortises so I'm not sure how great it would be for smaller and more delicate stuff as it is a large device. Can't imaging you will second guess owning one honestly.

Not to be a fan boy but the only Festool purchases I have regretted (after the wallet burn wears off) were the ones I foolishly sold and subsequently had to buy again (when I discovered I "really needed" them after all).

[Jacob Mac]

30 day money back guarantee, and the resell value is so high I don't think you have a lot of risk.

[Richard Coers]

I like the pantorouter more than the Domino 500 I have. The pantorouter is currently at $1849 for the pro kit. Much more accurate in my opinion. When the wood is clamped down, there is no movement. You can't say that when you have to balance the Domino on the fence with that big motor in the air!

[John TenEyck]

Have you seen my horizontal router mortiser? https://sites.google.com/d/1deYVS01kWg8M7TBd7AyIPWur6mYCy0bL/p/1gQooTkYQcUifSSBG4m9kQx1wLzDnt4lF/edit?pli=1&authuser=1 I built the version shown in at that link for less than $100 plus a router. It won't cut mortises in the middle of a wide piece like the Domino will, but it will do a whole bunch of things the Domino can't. Worth a look before you spend $2K.

John

[Derek Arita]

I had both and ended up selling the XL. Personally, I found I wasn't making any large enough projects to justify the XL just sitting. I use the heck out of my 500. If I did make larger things, I'd have both 500 and 700, as the 500 is good for smaller things.

[Mike Goetzke]

I went full circle. I bought a 500 when it just about when it came out. For some reason I didn't use it enough to justify the investment. Years later I took on the project to build a crib for our granddaughter. I wanted a Domino to attach the slats. I found a slightly used 700 with all the goodies and used this on almost every project. After about 3 years I discovered I never touched any of the 700 tenons so I sold the 700 and picked up the 500 since it fits my size projects much better.

[scott lipscomb]

0 regrets on the DF700. Its so darn fast and efficient. I think what's often overlooked is how well thought out the indexing/fence system is on the Domino. There are so many joints that can be made without having to measure. I have other nice mortising machines in the shop that rarely get used.

[mreza Salav]

Started with 500 (when doing many things in our house project), then bought 700 with Seneca adapter, sold 500. Wish had bought 700 many years ago...

[Jim Dwight]

My domino XL is one of my favorite tools and I absolutely have no regret. I do not buy Festool bits or tenons, however. I initially has CMT 14mm, 10mm, 8mm, 6mm and 5mm bits and the Seneca adapter for the little ones. But I broke two 14mm bits and now use an Amana. Either the Amana or CMT will be roughly half the price of the Festool. I find the CMT 14 to be brittle but the second one hit a hardened drywall screw and broke. First one just broke in wood. My 12mm Festool has contacted steel several times and still works fine. So I have to say I think they may be better. But twice as much?

I am a hobbiest as you said you are. Making tenons out of scrap is simple if you have a planner and router table. I cut tenon stock a little oversize on the table saw then plane to final thickness. Rip to width then round the edges. I store it in roughly 3 foot lengths. I cut to length on my bandsaw with a little jig. I don't like having to sand a little bevel on the edges of the tenons but it takes very little time. I also like to use what I consider "normal" size tenons instead of multiple little ones. You have to make those. It doesn't take me as much time as cutting and fitting an integral tenon.

I would get the domino and bits with the Seneca adapter but hold off on other jigs until you know you want them. I made drawers with my XL using a 5mm and 6mm bits using a wooden jig on the fence of the domino. Simple to make. 5mm underlayment plywood works well. But I made one of mine out of a cherry scrap.

I made a 10 foot long dining room table earlier this year. All the joints in the base are domino joints. I also used dominos to align the 6 boards that make the 42 inch wide top of cherry. More recently I made myself a 10 drawer dresser. Those drawers are dovetail but I changed the Woodsmith plans from a tongue and groove for the drawer supports to domino tenons. It was a little challenging to keep straight but it worked out great. Last year I made a crib for my most recent grandson, a bed for me (oversize tenons on that one and the crib), and a bunk bed (dominos for the headboard and footboard joints including the integral ladder).

I have a hollow chisel mortiser and it worked but the domino is so much faster I have not used it since getting the domino. I've also successfully made mortises with a plunge router but it is much slower. The setup time on the domino is quite quick and cutting them is even better. Quick and easy.

I am NOT a festool fanboy. I do not have a festool sander or track saw. I only have a few other odds and ends from them. But the domino is a one of a kind tool and the best way I've found to do it in my little shop.

[Jim Becker]

Nope. I love my Domino 700XL. It was the right machine for the things I use it for. I rarely have call for the small tenons, but can cut them with the bigger tool if I need to with the Seneca adapter. That said, if I were using the small sizes a lot, I'd surely want the Domino 500 for sure.

[Clark Hussey]

I recently purchased the 700XL, for a couple of large projects. I started with the 500, thinking I would never have a use for the bigger tenons.it’s always my thinking that gets me in trouble. So for the past few weeks I’ve been going back and forth on selling the 500. After reading through this post, I now see no reason to keep it. So I’ll be posting it in the classifieds tomorrow.

[Doug Dawson]

I bought the 700, and it’s really great for Big Things, when I don’t feel like doing timber framing M&T. But I kept the 500, because IMO the 700 is just plain unwieldy for routine smaller joinery. The 700 is mammoth in comparison to the 500.

[Clark Hussey]

I bought the 700, and it’s really great for Big Things, when I don’t feel like doing timber framing M&T. But I kept the 500, because IMO the 700 is just plain unwieldy for routine smaller joinery. The 700 is mammoth in comparison to the 500.

This has been my thinking. I feel that if I sell it I will regret it.

[Jared Sankovich]

No regrets on the 700. I don't use it all that often but its nice to have. Never used the 500, but for me it wouldn't be very versatile.

457004
457005

[Bob Hinden]

I have owned the 700 XL for about three years. I use it frequently.

I have the Seneca adapters, bits down to 4mm, Ramon Domino dock (made from plans), TSO Big foot, and Seneca Dock Plate XL. This kit allows me to use it either as a portable machine or as fixed machine with the wood clamped in place. The latter is really good for smaller pieces and with the stops excellent repeatability without marking. Picture attached.

457024

[Jim Dwight]

I've never used a 500 but I don't find the 700 to be difficult to use, regardless of the cutter or wood size I am using it on. It weighs less than my track saw. I am not supporting the weight while making the cut. I just have to lift it onto the surface. That isn't difficult. The biggest issue I have with it and my track saw is the vacuum hose gets in the way sometimes. That would be an issue with the 500 too.

[Mike Goetzke]

Another thing nice about the 500 is that the distance from the base to the cutter is about 3/8" (10mm) or half of 3/4" sheet goods. This makes it easy to plunge mortises for shelving for bookcases and cabinets.

[Jon Grider]

Can't speak for the 700XL, but my 500 has become indispensable for my work flow. In another thread others have mentioned accuracy problems with the Domino. I have not had any issues at all.

[Jon Endres]

Well, I bit the bullet and bought the DF 700 XL today. Bought it, brought it home and had to get to work (day job) so I haven't even taken it out of the case yet. The store I bought it from had zero tenon stock on hand for the 12 mm cutter, so I had to order some. I have been compiling a list of projects in my mind and it looks like there will be a lot more Domino use and less pocket holes in my future. Going to pick up the Seneca small mortise kit and start making my own tenon stock.

A funny note: I spent 20 minutes trying to explain what I was buying to my 16-year-old son, he could not figure out why I told his mother I was spending over $1600 on a tool. When I mentioned "Domino" he replied, "Well Dad, that's what I used in the school woodworking shop to install the breadboard ends on the coffee table I made" (which sits in our living room). "I didn't realize they cost that much". Welcome to Festool, kiddo. He probably understands how to use this thing better than I do at this point.

[Jim Becker]

Jon, one suggestion I have, if you have not done so already, is to embrace the "long" tenon stock sold in 750mm lengths. It's less expensive and you'll "always" have the length you need simply because you'll cut them quickly at your bandsaw to match the requirement.

[Albert Lee]

only regret is should have bought it earlier.
I am contemplating to buy a second one as changing the bit is taking some time.

[Jim Dwight]

I have 4 routers I use regularly but would buy another router before buying a second domino. I like it but for what it costs, I can change the bit. I find it is faster and easier to change bits in my domino than it is to change bits in any of my routers. But if you use it enough and have the money, go for it.

[George Yetka]

My only regret was getting the 500. Still havent upgraded but I havent been doing large projects for the most part and the ones I have i just flipped the router and put another domino on the other side

[Patrick Kane]

My only regret was getting the 500. Still havent upgraded but I havent been doing large projects for the most part and the ones I have i just flipped the router and put another domino on the other side

The 700 was released after the 500 and it shows in numerous ways. The 500 is a fine tool, but the 700 has a lot more refinement in it. I only have one issue with the 700 and that is the offset from the base. I wish it was the same as the 500, because of the point Mike makes.

Congrats on the buy, sounds like you have free on-site instruction ready to go : )

[Mikail Khan]

I have both. Really would only want to use the bigger heavier 700 when I had to.

MK

[Thomas Pender]

Someone mentioned workflow in support of the XL 700. I agree. I also have the 500 and feel the same way. Have to admit my hollow chisel mortiser is gathering dust, except for an occasional giant mortise, which I think the 14 MM on the 700 would work fine. One work technique suggestion. When matching the pieces draw long lines and use the triangle in the center rather than the center line on the plastic thing. I only rarely have to use the bigger hole that way.

[Ed Gibbons]

Great tool.