Questions for those familiar with industrial profile sanding machines

[Bobby Robbinett]

Don’t know if there are many guys in here familiar with heavy industrial machinery but it’s worth a try. My boss is wanting to invest in either a used large profile sander or a used shape and sand for sanding stick cuts, profiled door edges and raised panels. So it would need to be a 3 head profile sander or a 3 shaper and 3 sander (6 head) shape and sand.

First off, is it even possible to use one of these types machines to sand stick cuts? (ie: stile profiles) I have been told no by Larick. I was also told by someone else that only a Voorwood machine would do this because they have a patented way of doing it. The other big shape and sand manufactures such as Unique, Jenkins, Fletcher, ect supposedly can’t sand stick cuts without producing loose fitting joints.

The only profile sander company that I am familiar with is Larick. Do you guys know of any other profile sanders that can be had with 3 of the counter cutter profile type abrasive heads? I am referring to abrasive heads that are matched and counter profiles to what ever shaper cutter profile you are using. If he goes with a profile sander, it would need to be a 3 head. He is wanting to buy used as a new shape and sand is over $100,000 which doesn’t include tooling and abrasives.

He is not interested in getting a computerized automatic tooling CNC controlled type of machine unless he gets a really good deal on a used one. He would prefer to have a manually setup machine possibly with quick change spindles. We are watching IRS auctions but haven’t had any luck so far. If anyone knows of any of these machines for sale or going up for auction please let me know.

[Erik Loza]

Bobby, I can't help with your search (never actually seen the machine you are describing, in fact, though it sounds cool) but regarding your boss' criteria for "used", in my experience, a lot of used iron has been already gobbled up since the pandemic started, since nobody has anything new to ship. Also, and I realize this may not be helpful in your case, but I walk into shops all the time that are looking to sell this or that used machine, but would never put in the effort to list it through any of the auction sites, machinery max, etc. So, your machine might be out there but might require a more boots-on-the-ground type approach. Good luck with it.

Erik

[Joe Jensen]

I looked closely at profile sanders a few years ago and concluded one can't sand a cope profile without creating a loose joint when gluing up. When sanding a joint you are removing material which would for sure loosen the joint. I suppose one could have custom cutters made that undersize and count on the sanding step to get to size but as the sand paper wears the fit of the joint would change. I concluded a large diameter flap sander with narrow strips of sand paper and sanding glued up doors was the answer. Several vendors at the Vegas and Atlanta shows demo them and the results were impressive.

[Joe Calhoon]

There has been a lot of discussion about those on Woodweb. You should give a search there. I know a lot of shops use shape and sand for raised panel profiles. Not sure about sticking profile sanding. Myself I have found good and sharp insert tooling requires little or no sanding on sticking cuts. JR Rutter probably has a good opinion about this.

[Bobby Robbinett]

Bobby, I can't help with your search (never actually seen the machine you are describing, in fact, though it sounds cool) but regarding your boss' criteria for "used", in my experience, a lot of used iron has been already gobbled up since the pandemic started, since nobody has anything new to ship. Also, and I realize this may not be helpful in your case, but I walk into shops all the time that are looking to sell this or that used machine, but would never put in the effort to list it through any of the auction sites, machinery max, etc. So, your machine might be out there but might require a more boots-on-the-ground type approach. Good luck with it.

Erik

Any suggestions on where to look? I watch IRS and MachineryMax. The latter rarely has what I would consider good deals.

[Bobby Robbinett]

I looked closely at profile sanders a few years ago and concluded one can't sand a cope profile without creating a loose joint when gluing up. When sanding a joint you are removing material which would for sure loosen the joint. I suppose one could have custom cutters made that undersize and count on the sanding step to get to size but as the sand paper wears the fit of the joint would change. I concluded a large diameter flap sander with narrow strips of sand paper and sanding glued up doors was the answer. Several vendors at the Vegas and Atlanta shows demo them and the results were impressive.

Thanks for the advice. That has been my conclusion as well. My boss would love to find an older used Voorwood, Fletcher, Heeseman, Unique, Jenkins ect.

We are also looking at the small basic Larick 150 profile sander. I wonder if it could do door edges and raised panel profiles? We have no need for a tilting spindle and do not require automatic CNC style setup and changeover.

[Joe Jensen]

What is the budget?

[Bobby Robbinett]

What is the budget?

Hey Joe, if my boss pays cash he could go upwards above $10,000 for a used machine. Of course he would prefer to pay less. If he buys a new one he will finance it for a relatively short loan period. So if new the budget would be over $100,000.

[Mark Hennebury]

What are the profiles? And what wood species?

[Erik Loza]

Hey Joe, if my boss pays cash he could go upwards above $10,000 for a used machine. Of course he would prefer to pay less. If he buys a new one he will finance it for a relatively short loan period. So if new the budget would be over $100,000.

Not trying to be cute and I realize it's not your money but if he is willing to finance and can afford to finance $100K, why is he messing around, looking for used? Time is money, right? I talk to shop owners every day who are "waiting for the right deal" and guess what? They never find it. Meanwhile, all the other guys ARE stepping up.

Erik

[Bobby Robbinett]

Not trying to be cute and I realize it's not your money but if he is willing to finance and can afford to finance $100K, why is he messing around, looking for used? Time is money, right? I talk to shop owners every day who are "waiting for the right deal" and guess what? They never find it. Meanwhile, all the other guys ARE stepping up.

Erik

While you are partially correct he is very conservative with his business practices. He is making money today and every day prior whether he buys a machine or not he is still making money. He is not in any huge hurry as this is a long term plan to use less labor. If he can do that with a $10k investment it would pay for itself very quickly when implemented with his other long term priorities which I should note also require investment capital. However any good business minded person in his shoes would be smart to attempt to find a much cheaper way to do this. It’s not like he is loosing money without it.