Hobbyist Looking for the Planer Truth [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

David Lageman

04-27-2021, 11:19 AM

I'll start by saying I'm just a hobbyist making sawdust in my garage, so limited on space and desire to spend a huge amount of money to create said sawdust. I've had a DeWalt DW735 Planer for at least 10+ years and it has served me well overall, with the exception of the occasional snipe, until now. My first thought was to simply go and buy another one for $600 at the blue store. I already have the extension tables and rolling stand, so it would be easy. I then found that Grizzly (I've never owned a Grizzly tool) has a 13" Planer with a Helical head for $800 delivered. A little more digging I discovered Grizzly also sells a Shelix Cutterhead for the DeWalt as an upgrade. So if I did that, I would be in to the DeWalt at nearly $1,100. So now I'm just a hobbyist that's confused...lol.

So I thought maybe I should ask the far more experienced SMC members for an opinion. It seems for all practical purposes, the Grizzly at $800 and the DeWalt (with upgraded cutterhead) at $1,100 are similarly "equipped" machines. As said, I know nothing about Grizzly, other than reading the reviews. So the unanswerable question is...save the $300 and go with the Grizzly or just go and replace the DeWalt and upgrade (now or eventually) the cutterhead? Also open to other options as well. Woodworking tools/equipment are a very rare commodity on my local CL so not much hope there.

Thoughts and advice will be greatly appreciated and I thank you in advance. I need to replace it as I had just started to plane down some walnut for new living room tables and the bride is getting anxious. :cool:

David Bassett

04-27-2021, 11:45 AM

I can't offer a definitive opinion, but I do remember this coming up on the FWW Shop Talk LIve podcast a while back. Consensus there was get the DeWalt 735 unless you could step up to a big heavy helical head planner. I have no idea which, if any, of the Grizzly models would qualify as "big". You can probably search thru their episodes and find it.

Also, many people are happy with the helical head upgrade for the DeWalt, but others have reported it strains the motor since it requires more power than the machine is designed to provide. Therefore, for me, it would come down to stock versus major step up.

Good luck.

ChrisA Edwards

04-27-2021, 12:24 PM

I had a DW735 and installed the Shelix Head before I even turned it on. The head switch was well documented on several Youtube videos and was pretty straight forward.

I put it through its paces milling a lot of wide, long pieces of rough sawn basswood. I would take light passes and only tripped the breaker a couple of times.

I sold it for about 75% of what I put into it and it was gobbled up on the first day I advertised it.

I decided to go with a J/P combo machine, as I wanted to also upgrade my Jointer at the same time.

Charles Coolidge

04-27-2021, 12:46 PM

That's not a Shelix on the Grizzly so not a direct comparison. The Grizzly has 2 rows of 15 inserts for a total of 30 inserts. The Shelix has 4 rows of 10 inserts for a total of 40 inserts.

Andrew Hughes

04-27-2021, 12:57 PM

I used to have both a 735 and a pm15 hh at the same time. The dewalt with carbide tipped knives from infinity left a much better surface then the bryd head.
The pm would dress longer wide boards faster and quieter.
The dewalt would handle smaller thinner boards that just need a lite cut.
The dewalt knives are indexed with pins on the head. I think it’s better to take advantage of that.
Good Luck

Phil Gaudio

04-27-2021, 1:02 PM

The DW735 is a very good planer with a very good blade replacement indexing system. Since you already have the stand and extension table (and perhaps the spare blades), for a casual hobbyist, I'd stick with the DeWalt. The only exception would be if you are partial to difficult woods that give you tear-out problems. Absent that: stick with the 735.

Julie Moriarty

04-27-2021, 1:47 PM

Rod Sheridan

04-27-2021, 1:53 PM

Unless I needed portability, I wouldn't buy a lunchbox planer.

I have a Hammer A3-31 and normally take 2mm deep passes at full width, it's nice to have a planer that's fast, relatively quiet and accurate.

Regards, Rod.

David Lageman

04-27-2021, 2:05 PM

I can't offer a definitive opinion, but I do remember this coming up on the FWW Shop Talk LIve podcast a while back. Consensus there was get the DeWalt 735 unless you could step up to a big heavy helical head planner.

Thanks for the heads up...I'll see if I can find the Shop Talk.

I had a DW735 and installed the Shelix Head before I even turned it on. The head switch was well documented on several Youtube videos and was pretty straight forward.

I put it through its paces milling a lot of wide, long pieces of rough sawn basswood. I would take light passes and only tripped the breaker a couple of times.

I sold it for about 75% of what I put into it and it was gobbled up on the first day I advertised it.

I decided to go with a J/P combo machine, as I wanted to also upgrade my Jointer at the same time.

I watched a couple of videos and the replacements does seem pretty straight forward.

That's not a Shelix on the Grizzly so not a direct comparison. The Grizzly has 2 rows of 15 inserts for a total of 30 inserts. The Shelix has 4 rows of 10 inserts for a total of 40 inserts.

Excellent observation that I didn't pick up on.

I used to have both a 735 and a pm15 hh at the same time. The dewalt with carbide tipped knives from infinity left a much better surface then the bryd head.
The pm would dress longer wide boards faster and quieter.
The dewalt would handle smaller thinner boards that just need a lite cut.
The dewalt knives are indexed with pins on the head. I think it’s better to take advantage of that.
Good Luck

Great information...thanks.

The DW735 is a very good planer with a very good blade replacement indexing system. Since you already have the stand and extension table (and perhaps the spare blades), for a casual hobbyist, I'd stick with the DeWalt. The only exception would be if you are partial to difficult woods that give you tear-out problems. Absent that: stick with the 735.

Another excellent point as the blades I have in there are relatively new, on their first side, and I have another set as back-up that I didn't even think about. I pretty much stick to the "basic" (maples, walnut, ash, poplar, clear pine and the like) varieties and haven't experienced any tear-out issues. But I'm starting the lean towards sticking to the DeWalt as suggested.

David Lageman

04-27-2021, 2:17 PM

There was a thread about putting a Shelix on lunchbox planers. IIRC, those types of planers are best when using straight knives. Carbide being preferred over HHS. Apparently, the fraction of a second relief the motor gets between straight knives contacting the wood is sufficient to keep the motor from overloading. With a spiral-type head, there is no relief and this could cause the motor overload or a circuit breaker to trip. If a spiral head is your preference, find a planer designed for it.

I had a DW735 and used the stock knives. While running pecky Bolivian walnut through it, the vibration caused the head to drop. Others reported the same problem and some YouTubers showed how they wedged the height wheel to keep the head from dropping.

You're probably right...buy equipment as it's designed instead of trying to "upgrade" it as soon as you buy it.

...I sold the DW735 and bought a Hammer A3-31 and couldn't be happier. And it's SOOOO much quieter!

Unless I needed portability, I wouldn't buy a lunchbox planer.

I have a Hammer A3-31 and normally take 2mm deep passes at full width, it's nice to have a planer that's fast, relatively quiet and accurate.

Regards, Rod.

As much as I would love to, I just can't justify in my head spending that much on a piece of equipment as a hobbyist. Besides, I really don't have room for something that size that I know I wouldn't want to move it around once set up.

Micah Puscheck

04-27-2021, 2:33 PM

I just bought a used 15" Grizzly with a spiral head for $1,100. Obviously availability is the issue, but I'd imagine a 600 lb machine should be a pretty long-term purchase.

My point being, you start to get into some interesting alternatives as you approach the $1k mark.

Prashun Patel

04-27-2021, 3:30 PM

The advice from Shoptalk has degraded significantly in the past couple years. They had no idea what they were talking about when reviewing sanders the past couple podcasts. I wouldn't trust them on planers either besides Mike P (who I believe identified that shelix heads on the DW735 cause trips of their breaker). Mike P is and will always be the best. They are all nice, but I don't trust them as I did when Matt K and Asa were also on board.

I was in your same boat. Happy DW735 user. It was great but loud. I upgraded to a combo machine - which may not be in your cards. The helical head is great - especially when you can use if for both jointing and planing. You also likely get larger jointing capacity than you'd pay for separately. I'm fine with the limitation on the planing, and love the extra jointing capacity.

Anyway, I suspect you are at the point to really appreciate a huge upgrade which will give you some capacity but, lower sound, improved surface and better thickness accuracy - which is huge.

Matthew Hills

04-27-2021, 3:30 PM

Were you frustrated with tearout with your original dw735 and straight knives?

Is it worthwhile spending an extra $200-600 to improve that situation?
(secondary factors may be cutting noise and characteristics of the planing waste)

I think whether this is worthwhile will come down to what woods you are working with and how liberal/conservative you are in spending on the hobby. Some people really enjoy getting the most out of pretty low-end tools; others enjoy working with high-quality tools; and yet others enjoy the anticipation that comes with levelling up their shop... Its a big tent.

Personally, I've changed a planer due to snipe... so my frustration threshold isn't super high.

Matt

Andrew Seemann

04-27-2021, 3:58 PM

Prashun Patel

04-27-2021, 4:38 PM

I see no reference to essential or automatic in this thread. Nobody's saying that. Straight knives and tersa knives (I am told) can have performance advantages when brand new and convenience advantages over a helical head. That being said, the helical heads in general stay sharper longer, and can lead to less tearout in some situations. I've used both and prefer my helical head. I've never heard anyone imply those without them are pitifully missing out.

David Lageman

04-27-2021, 5:32 PM

Great comments continue with thanks...all great points mentioned. No, the helical/spiral head is not mandatory and I've done just fine with the straight blades for the prior 10+ years. But I asked as they seem to be the "thing to go with" and since I'm having to do a replacement, thought it prudent to examine that route. As mentioned before, I've not experienced much tear-out but I've also not made anything of woods prone to it. Since power was mentioned, it too is an advantage of staying with the smaller machine since I only have access to 120 without having an electrician come in. Not that I wouldn't if the need arose, but currently it's all single phase in my shop.

I will say the space is a greater limitation than the willingness to spend a little more on a nice piece of equipment, within reason of course.

Prashun Patel

04-27-2021, 6:07 PM

If space is an issue, more the reason to consider a jointer planer especially if you are ok spending a little more. Upgrading to 220 gives you more possibilities and is nice. Cry once....

Wes Grass

04-27-2021, 6:25 PM

Felder introduced an insert head on their machines. Kinda bummed me out that the parts were not interchangeable with the older machine I have.

Fast forward ... Just taking all the (few) screws out and cleaning everything to flip the straight blades is about the limit for the amount of work I want to do on it anyway ;-)

Charles Coolidge

04-27-2021, 7:15 PM

I've never quite understood the obsession with spiral/helical heads. I know why they get used, but at the same time, I don't understand why they are thought of as "essential" and an "automatic upgrade". I have had straight HSS knives on my 15" Grizzly for 15 years and had no problems despite running thousands of board feet through it. I wouldn't turn a spiral head down if it was a great deal, but I don't see it as essential either.

I'd rather spend the money on larger and heavier and bigger motor than a spiral/helical head, but I also I have the space and power for it, which I know everyone doesn't.

For starters, hit an inclusion and chip the straight knives and it's a major hassle to fix but with inserts rotating to a new edge is fast and easy. Second, the noise holy crap straight knife planers are loud, much quieter with inserts. Finally shove the most figured up mess of curly maple through a straight knife planer and you WILL get tear out. Zero to almost zero with the insert cutter head. Just saying.

Julie Moriarty

04-27-2021, 7:42 PM

I will say the space is a greater limitation than the willingness to spend a little more on a nice piece of equipment, within reason of course.
You should see my garage shop, David. Maybe in a former life I worked canning sardines. But everything is mobile. All that's needed is an open space down the middle.

The evolution of the workshop is interesting. Buy a jointer and you find yourself looking for rough sawn edges. Buy a planer and that quest widens. Buy a bandsaw and you're looking for thick boards to resaw. And on it goes. Next thing you know you have a mini mill. But it sure can be fun.

Chris Luke

04-27-2021, 8:09 PM

I used to have both a 735 and a pm15 hh at the same time. The dewalt with carbide tipped knives from infinity left a much better surface then the bryd head.

I tried the carbide blades for the 735 from Infinity earlier this year. The cutting edges weren't straight on my surface plate on any of the knives, and to the point they left a visible curve in the surface of boards, so I tried customer service. That was the most terrible experience I've ever had trying to get them replaced. They eventually did, 5-6 weeks later. The replacements were no better. I gave up and put them in a drawer. (Anyone want them? PM me! They're nice looking, and perhaps it's me not the blades)

Roll forward time, I since bought and installed the Lux Cut III and am delighted. Not quite as smooth feeling, but easily sanded smooth and no more lines in planed boards after getting nicked in under 50 linear feet of work. Those HSS blades just don't like the Walnut I have I guess. I never take big bites with a planer in any case so not overly worried about the motor.

Scott Winners

04-27-2021, 8:09 PM

I am not sure it will help, but I agree with David Basset, post #2 this thread.

I don't own a dust collector or a planer yet, but I have done my research. I am constrained on both space and breaker availability currently. I do have room in the breaker panel for one 220V circuit - if I do a bunch of drywall work. DC and planer will be my next two power tool purchases.

For planers that run on 110-120VAC, the DeWalt 735 is top of the heap, to the point I stopped reading any more planer reviews. Some folks like the helical head, I am going to pass. My local utility only supplies 110vac to my home, so I would already be at increased risk for drawing extra current on day one.

I will have to make the 735 work until I am in a different shop. If I am not happy with the 735 I will start looking at 220 powered machines. I have a buddy from church with a 110vac planer - not a 735, not a DeWalt, with straight blades, that has done fine on every piece of stock I have taken over there. I expect I will be perfectly happy with the 735.

If you have been happy with the old one and already have accessories for it I see no reason to change to a different current offering at 110-120 volts. I don't know of any planers that run quiet enough for hearing protection to be optional.

Good luck and best wishes.

David Lageman

04-27-2021, 8:15 PM

If space is an issue, more the reason to consider a jointer planer...

You're probably correct Prashun and maybe this is the time to take a closer look at my shop layout. :eek:

You should see my garage shop, David. Maybe in a former life I worked canning sardines. But everything is mobile. All that's needed is an open space down the middle.

The evolution of the workshop is interesting. Buy a jointer and you find yourself looking for rough sawn edges. Buy a planer and that quest widens. Buy a bandsaw and you're looking for thick boards to resaw. And on it goes. Next thing you know you have a mini mill. But it sure can be fun.

Julie...therein lies the issue. I've only been able to commandeer about 2/3 of our two car garage and everything you've mentioned is here and already modular, with the exception of the table saw and out feed table that doubles as my work station. As just mentioned, maybe it is time to remodel the shop.

On a side note Julie, you're just up 75 from me and I'm wondering if you've been to Alva Hardwoods? I've never made the trip so I'm curious what it's like.

Mike Kees

04-27-2021, 11:13 PM

OP if that Dewalt did everything you needed stick with it. I would not change heads in it though. My planer is a 20'' Cantek with a helical head. It is way quieter than straight knives and has mostly eliminated tear out on Maple that I have used a lot in the last year. The surface left behind is not perfect. If held up to the light there are slight "tracks '' on a diagonal cross the wood. I actually liked my old planer with straight knives better ,as seeing the slight scallops was easier to see when sanding out. The planer I sold was also a 20'' machine and the knives were very easy to change and set .Since I have a Grizzly blade grinder and sharpen myself this worked real well. Not looking forward to rotating 120 carbide inserts so much ,pretty sure that will take me more than the hour it used to to change and sharpen/reinstall knives. Tersa is the best option out there for precision and speed of changes, as well as choices in knives.

Erik Loza

04-28-2021, 9:56 AM

David Lageman

04-28-2021, 10:34 AM

If it were me, I would stick with the existing planer and spend my $$$ on bringing 220V into the shop. The lack of 220V will continue to be a roadblock every you think about upgrading any machine. Just my 2-cents.

Erik

Great suggestion Erik...After reading through all the replies last evening a few more times, this is actually something I considered. Stay with the known for now (minimal equipment investment) and use the difference to upgrade the shop infrastructure. Between that and reconsidering the shop layout, when the next buying decision comes up (and we all know it will) it would open options to me currently unavailable. I could also take the time and resources to get the mini split I've had for a while installed!

I have to keep telling myself I'm just a hobbyist and don't need the best of everything but eventually I'll stop listening to myself...lol.

Thanks to this great community for all the comments and suggestions...it's truly appreciated.

Prashun Patel

04-28-2021, 1:00 PM

"I have to keep telling myself I'm just a hobbyist and don't need the best of everything but eventually I'll stop listening to myself...lol."

Until you realize that "Life's too short not to have things you want and can afford."

Good tools are wasted only on those who don't use or appreciate them. if you can do both there's no shame in your (read "my") game.

I recently upgraded to 220 in my garage and love love love it.

Aaron Liebling

04-28-2021, 1:24 PM

If you're adding 220 and only have one (double) space for it, install a subpanel with those slots instead and suddenly you'll have space for multiple new 110 and 220 circuits. This way you can have 220 DC and all the 110 or 220 tools you desire.

Charles Coolidge

04-28-2021, 2:33 PM

There's also a new style breaker that's 110/220/110 or 3 breakers that fit within the space of 2. So if you have 2 110 breakers next to each other pull them and shove this one in that spot.

Julie Moriarty

04-28-2021, 4:44 PM

On a side note Julie, you're just up 75 from me and I'm wondering if you've been to Alva Hardwoods? I've never made the trip so I'm curious what it's like.

I've been to Alva a few times. Their advertised prices looked good but he always jacked up the prices when it came time to pay, giving some BS about how special the wood is. I stopped going there long ago. BTW, they are closed during the summer.

I go to Advantage Lumber in Sarasota. VERY reasonable prices and a decent selection of woods, some woods I never saw before. And if you like live edge boards, you love it. I took my neighbor there and he was like a kid at an amusement park.

Robert London

04-28-2021, 9:24 PM

Hey David, you may also want to look into Oliver. They sell a machine installed with a Byrd and Wixie. Grizzly is the only other machine that has a head with 36 cutters pre installed. The Oliver is under $800. https://olivermachinery.net/12-5in-planer

I have a cutech, but it’s not a true spiral head like the others but has 26 inserts. Very good machine though for $650.

Randall J Cox

05-02-2021, 10:05 AM

I've never quite understood the obsession with spiral/helical heads. I know why they get used, but at the same time, I don't understand why they are thought of as "essential" and an "automatic upgrade". I have had straight HSS knives on my 15" Grizzly for 15 years and had no problems despite running thousands of board feet through it. I wouldn't turn a spiral head down if it was a great deal, but I don't see it as essential either.

I'd rather spend the money on larger and heavier and bigger motor than a spiral/helical head, but I also I have the space and power for it, which I know everyone doesn't.

Nor I. As a hobbyist I bought a very well used (read rust) Delta 15" planer (came out of a cabinet shop) and rebuilt it over the winter some years back. Was very careful with set up, had existing knives sharpened, worked great and still does. Have changed knives once due to nicks. Have straight knives and happy with it, although changing knives is a pain. Have had it about 6 years now. Randy