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Todd Sebek
04-25-2021, 8:56 PM
Hey everyone,
I am beginning my investigation into which hollow chisel mortiser to purchase. I would love you advise. I enjoy buying tools once, when I can. I have seen several people use the Powermatic version, but want to see what other ideas there are out there. Thank you so much!

Todd

roger wiegand
04-25-2021, 9:53 PM
An indexing table is invaluable. I wouldn't bother with a mortiser without one.

I have the General International 75-075 (https://www.finewoodworking.com/2009/07/01/75-075-hollow-chisel-mortiser-review) which is no longer sold, but which has served me very well.

ChrisA Edwards
04-25-2021, 10:37 PM
I have the floor standing Powermatic Mortiser and have used it for a couple of big projects and it did the job admirably, but it is a one trick pony.

I recently bought a PantoRouter that is quite compact. I've done mortise and tenons using it as well as box and dovetail joints. I've also used it to cut mortises for floating tenons when I recently made some cabinets doors and jointed the frame pieces at 45 degrees.

The PantoRouter has now become my go to tool for most joints.

I most likely will sell my Powermatic pretty soon.

Andrew Hughes
04-25-2021, 11:02 PM
Festool domino is a pretty good contender to a Mortiser. That what I use.

Rod Sheridan
04-26-2021, 6:57 AM
I’ve used a GI Mortimer for 20 years, it works well with Properly sharpened chisels...Rod

brent stanley
04-26-2021, 7:47 AM
If you're a "buy once, cry once" kinda person, this is a highly respected machine. I have the chain / chisel version and it's a dream to use.

https://www.daltonswadkin.com/product/wadkin-dmv/

B

Brian Runau
04-26-2021, 8:16 AM
Hey everyone,
I am beginning my investigation into which hollow chisel mortiser to purchase. I would love you advise. I enjoy buying tools once, when I can. I have seen several people use the Powermatic version, but want to see what other ideas there are out there. Thank you so much!

Todd

I sold my powermatic mortiser and went with the festool domino. Much quicker.

Charles Coolidge
04-26-2021, 10:03 AM
I picked up a Powermatic 719T (tilting table) a few weeks back used in mint condition with a set of 5 chisels. High quality chisels/bits is key. I previously owned a ShopFox the other design mortiser on the market with a tilting column instead of a tilting table. I prefer the tilting table. To me the Festool Domino is even more of a one trick pony and kind of a high price Biscuit joiner but if it meets your needs and that's all you need then I like it more than other biscuit jointers. I do through slots on the mortiser though which can be useful when making jigs.

Jon Grider
04-26-2021, 10:30 AM
Another vote for the Domino. My old benchtop HCM has sat idle since I bought the Domino. I like the speed and repeatability it provides and the joint it makes is much more precise and far stronger than a biscuit joiner. I suppose with any purchase, the type of work you do should play a major role in deciding which direction to go, for my work it has been a real timesaver and given great results.

John TenEyck
04-26-2021, 10:32 AM
Unless you need to cut a lot of square ended mortises there are better alternatives to a chisel mortiser. A Domino or router will do most things a chisel mortiser can, a horizontal mortiser, too, including really deep mortises. There are other options, too, but all of them eliminate the chisel in favor of a cutter that requires no sharpening and all cut cleaner mortises that require no hand cleanup. If you are set on a chisel mortiser, just be patient; they show up for sale here on a regular basis.

John

Warren Lake
04-26-2021, 11:19 AM
When I build an armoire or a vanity or book case or whatever I say "its built with traditional joinery" and I stick to that construction.

I likely see about three old Wadkins or similar weight machines to what Brent posted a year. Usually with some chisels as well and usually about 1k or less to 1,500.00 at the high side.

Roger whats an indexing table? My machine has a fancy stop system, ive never figured out how to work it just use pencil lines. Simple and easy.

Robert Engel
04-26-2021, 11:25 AM
After I got over the wow factor, in my work the Domino was simply not the game changer I expected. I just sold my Dom500 for $200 more than I paid for it 2 years ago. Try as I might, IMO the fence is faulty but even registering off the table with everything clamped, the Domino just did not live up the accuracy narrative. My biscuit joiner is more accurate & consistent for panel glue ups.

I have the PM floor mortiser - agree, its a one trick pony, but excels at that trick. That said, I've also used it for square dowel holes & table top button slots in the apron.

Had to do over, if I were looking for a power mortiser, I'd go with a horizontal slot mortiser or a Pantarouter.

Warren Lake
04-26-2021, 11:37 AM
my mortiser is not bang on bang on. I can be out about .003 and it has to do with fence clamping. i put a dial on it reefed on the clamp and found I could deflect it about .003 as the clamp is so powerful. Not a big deal and I could improve it so I dont need that much force.

I want air clamps on a foot pedal and if so will rig it so it clamps from the back of the fence and not the front putting pressure on the back. Its a massive fence but you can still deflect it. I find it easier to mortise on the chisel mortiser than the horizontal as its easier to look down and see the pencil lines.

roger wiegand
04-26-2021, 1:07 PM
Roger whats an indexing table? My machine has a fancy stop system, ive never figured out how to work it just use pencil lines. Simple and easy.

Maybe I didn't use the right words, a moveable x-y vise/table controlled with hand wheels with stops that allow you to precisely position the work with respect to the chisel and move it defined distances. Makes it easy to cut dozens of identical parts without doing any measuring once you've done the initial setup.

Richard Link
04-26-2021, 1:20 PM
I have owned or tried just about every conceivable mortising gizmo out there (both Festool dominos, Pantarouter, Multirouter, benchtop and floor standing hollow chisel mortisers, Leigh FMT, Shaper Origin, plunge routers, chisels, etc). They all have their pluses and minuses and some are faster/more fun/more versatile than others. The hollow chisel mortiser is definitely a one trick pony but can be a workhorse IF (and only IF) you really like making your tenons using a tablesaw and tenoning jig (or maybe a shaper). Is that what you like to do? Today, I rarely design projects around square tenons produced at the tablesaw so my hollow chisel mortiser sits mostly idle (since it doesn't do much else). In contrast, the Pantorouter can get used for a huge number of tasks of both the male and female joint variety (and it's more fun). Likewise, the domino is a fantastic tool for those projects where the joinery isn't the focus. I haven't found the issues that Robert Engel mentioned to be limiting in my use of either the D500 or D700 for most projects. There are certainly aftermarket add ons from Seneca or Woodpeckers that address the indexing issues.

With that said, a domino isn't really a 1:1 exchange for a hollow chisel mortiser since the "method of work" is so dramatically different. And through tenons with a domino are not so pretty.

For the OP, what are you planning to make with this tool? Do you need something really versatile (pantorouter) or fast and easy (domino) or are you looking to make a bunch of arts and crafts pieces with traditional square tenons (hollow chisel mortiser). If you plan to make a lot of different things with lots of different joinery, I think the question really is "do I really want a hollow chisel mortiser" or "do I really need to invest the $ and space into a big floor standing unit that I won't use often."

R

ChrisA Edwards
04-26-2021, 1:42 PM
Just to follow up on Robert's comment on the Domino, I suffer the same issue with my Domino 500. I register off the flat base of the Domino on the cast iron top of my Sawstop. I don't know what I do wrong, but I don't quite get the joint I expect, it's close, but not the level of quality I expect.

The Pantorouter is spot on.

Warren Lake
04-26-2021, 2:49 PM
lamello the same. Even bought a new one just in case. Then the biscuits they are a whole other story.

John TenEyck
04-26-2021, 3:31 PM
Just to follow up on Robert's comment on the Domino, I suffer the same issue with my Domino 500. I register off the flat base of the Domino on the cast iron top of my Sawstop. I don't know what I do wrong, but I don't quite get the joint I expect, it's close, but not the level of quality I expect.

The Pantorouter is spot on.

I've never used a Domino, but with my biscuit joiner if the fence is square to the cutter and you reference off a common work face (not the bench) the joint is flush, never off more than a couple of thousandths. I don't see why it would be any different with the Domino. And if anyone has one they just hate feel free to send it my way. I'll evaluate it for a few years and let you know how it works for me.

Not being able to afford a Multirouter I built a horizontal router mortiser. It makes a whole bunch of joints with about as perfect registration as you could ask for, fast and easy.

John l

Jim Morgan
04-26-2021, 5:20 PM
Just to follow up on Robert's comment on the Domino, I suffer the same issue with my Domino 500. I register off the flat base of the Domino on the cast iron top of my Sawstop. I don't know what I do wrong, but I don't quite get the joint I expect, it's close, but not the level of quality I expect.

The Pantorouter is spot on.

I wonder what symptoms those having difficulties with the Domino are witnessing? Horizontal misalignment? Vertical misalignment? One piece twisted relative to the other? Joints not closing completely? When I started using my DF700 I had occasional problems with joints not closing up as they should. The problem was failing to plunge perpendicular to the joint face. I learned not to hold the handle while plunging but rather to wrap my hand behind and under the back end of the Domino, better supporting its weight.

Brian Holcombe
04-26-2021, 6:08 PM
I have a Maka and a DM (hollow chisel) and rip through very accurate mortises with both.

Sharp chisels, and dialing the machines in both pay dividends. I’ve yet to have a student use either of these two machines and then say ‘you really need to buy a domino’, not once. Normally after cutting a couple mortises I see an elated face and the response is ‘wow, this is awesome!’.

The newer machines are just not the same (except the DMV and a few rare others) get some old iron.

brent stanley
04-26-2021, 6:09 PM
I wonder what symptoms those having difficulties with the Domino are witnessing? Horizontal misalignment? Vertical misalignment? One piece twisted relative to the other? Joints not closing completely? When I started using my DF700 I had occasional problems with joints not closing up as they should. The problem was failing to plunge perpendicular to the joint face. I learned not to hold the handle while plunging but rather to wrap my hand behind and under the back end of the Domino, better supporting its weight.

I found the same thing with mine too. It is surprising how little a lack of concentration it takes to mess up the "squareness". Once I got the hang of it, it has been fine.

Mel Fulks
04-26-2021, 6:28 PM
Maka is a great machine. Especially since it doesn't use the hollow chisels which are easily broken. I don't think it will
make a small square mortise,but unless you want to make window sash ,you might not ever need square holes.

Mark Hennebury
04-26-2021, 9:38 PM
What exactly are you looking for and why? You want the best hollow chisel mortiser, or you want the best mortiser?


Hey everyone,
I am beginning my investigation into which hollow chisel mortiser to purchase. I would love you advise. I enjoy buying tools once, when I can. I have seen several people use the Powermatic version, but want to see what other ideas there are out there. Thank you so much!

Todd

Frederick Skelly
04-26-2021, 9:52 PM
I use a PM mortiser and cut my tenons by hand. I'm glad I have it.

I have heard good things here about slot mortisers, and there's also a couple guys (like John TenEyck) who have built router-based mortisers.

Here's a recent thread. LINK (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?290787-Benchtop-mortiser-anybody-have-one&highlight=Mortiser) TenEyck's is mentioned in post #8.

Todd Sebek
04-27-2021, 5:42 AM
These are all awesome insights. I have chopped plenty of through mortises, through all the waste removal techniques that save time, and just don’t get fired up to do them. I recently finished a small kitchen table with through tenons in the legs, and it was one of those moments where I said, “Man, a machine for this would be awesome!” The legs were 4” thick, and my mortise chisel skills could use improvement, but I also like maximizing my time in the shop. I am hunting for a domino all the time, and I will certainly be adding one to the equipment list. I’m just wondering if a hollow chisel mortiser is a good/great addition to buy if I see a good one come up.

Mick Simon
04-27-2021, 7:30 AM
I have a Powermatic PM701, a Domino and a Pantorouter. Most of the time I use the Pantorouter followed closely by the Domino. I use the HCM maybe once a year.

Brian Holcombe
04-27-2021, 7:56 AM
Those with a PM that are moving on to other mortisers, doesn’t surprise me at all but it’s not the format that’s the issue it’s that particular machine. It’s nowhere near heavy enough.

Look at the size of the column compared to older machines, these machines are made this way not by accident or to excess, they are made that way for a reason that column strength makes this task easier and more accurate.

brent stanley
04-27-2021, 8:04 AM
Those with a PM that are moving on to other mortisers, doesn’t surprise me at all but it’s not the format that’s the issue it’s that particular machine. It’s nice where near heavy enough.

Look at the size of the column compared to older machines, these machines are made this way not by accident or to excess, they are made that way for a reason that column strength makes this task easier and more accurate.

Yes, my big Wadkin chain/chisel is so nice and easy to use, I can't imagine moving to a screaming dust monster, router based system, however they do take up a lot of space and the Pantarouter does look pretty versatile for short mortises.

Mike Stelts
04-27-2021, 8:22 AM
I've had good luck with the PM 719T for through tenons. You'll spend no time creating accurate mortises, if you spend some time keeping the chisels sharp.

Charles Coolidge
04-27-2021, 10:14 AM
These are all awesome insights. I have chopped plenty of through mortises, through all the waste removal techniques that save time, and just don’t get fired up to do them. I recently finished a small kitchen table with through tenons in the legs, and it was one of those moments where I said, “Man, a machine for this would be awesome!” The legs were 4” thick, and my mortise chisel skills could use improvement, but I also like maximizing my time in the shop. I am hunting for a domino all the time, and I will certainly be adding one to the equipment list. I’m just wondering if a hollow chisel mortiser is a good/great addition to buy if I see a good one come up.

I won't use the 719T that often but without it I'd have to think up other ways of doing things in those infrequent situations where I need it. Like my square for drawing a line in a center of a circle that sits in my toolbox 99% of the time. The 719T was not a priority to buy, but when a mint used unit popped up for sale locally at a substantial discount I snagged it.

Michael Drew
04-27-2021, 12:36 PM
Every one of these "which morticer" threads gets response from folks suggesting to use a pantorouter. And every time I use the all-powerful Google to see just what the hell a pantorouter is, and where I might buy one, but all I get are DIY plans for making one out of wood or CNC parts. Can someone educate me on these devices?

ChrisA Edwards
04-27-2021, 12:41 PM
https://pantorouter.com

Not cheap, but neither was my Domino 500 or PM719T.

Mike Stelts
04-27-2021, 1:01 PM
The PM719T is the best option if you don't want to force a square peg into a round hole ;)

Andrew Seemann
04-27-2021, 3:15 PM
I have the Norm Abram style Delta bench top hollow chisel mortiser. The only knock I have against that specific model is that the fence didn't clamp to the table and the chuck key was an oddball style and nearly impossible to replace. I ended up using a different fence that clamped to the table. Other than that it has worked well for its intended use, and something like it would be just fine for a hobbyist or light pro use. A lot of the arguments here seem to be from people that do production mortising, and I could see better tools for that.

It looks like the current Grizzly and Powermatic bench tops with the dovetailed columns have solved the fence problem with lockdowns to the table and look like they use more normal chuck keys. If my current mortiser died, I would likely replace it with the Grizzly. I do have a nice router mortise jig, but I like the hollow chisel better for some things.

Richard Link
04-27-2021, 4:37 PM
Well I stand corrected. I have not tried every mortising tool. An oscillating chisel mortiser sounds extremely cool. I looked at some old ones online and they seem like about 3000 lb monsters that can really cut a mortise.

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing the OP asking whether he should consider a bench top or floor model hollow chisel mortiser from Woodcraft isn't really in the market for a multi thousand dollar, multi thousand pound industrial mortiser to refurbish. We can all dream though.... Kind of like the answer to the question "2020 Toyota Corolla or Camry" being "import and refurbish a right hand drive 1985 Land Rover Defender."

But still - would love to see and hear more about your Maka! Any pics? Sounds like the bomb.

Mark Hennebury
04-27-2021, 6:38 PM
Yeah, Gotta be careful saying stuff like that.

There are about a dozen or more companies that make swing chisel mortisers;
Maka, Lari & Lari, Centauro, Sautereau, Muti, Framar, Griggio, Steton, Marzani, Masterwood, Mesa, Mutltifil, Haffner, Holz-Her, from little benchtop models up to 14' floor models with 6 or more heads on them, they are also made with complete CNC controls with combination swing chisel, slot routers and hollow chisel heads.

There are also automatic slot mortisers, Like Balestrini, Bacci, Rye, Pade, Greda, Cantek, North State etc.

Then there is the Alternax by Parveau A unique machine that uses three chisels to make a mortise.

Lots of choices when it comes to mortising, Not everyone is aware of what's out there so they don't know what to ask for. They tend to ask for information on the only things that they are aware of, So should i choose Powermatic or Grizzly, doesn't really give you much.
Explaining what your goals and budget are might give you a lot more information.

Little Baby Maka;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDLEuyOEDdQ



Well I stand corrected. I have not tried every mortising tool. An oscillating chisel mortiser sounds extremely cool. I looked at some old ones online and they seem like about 3000 lb monsters that can really cut a mortise.

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing the OP asking whether he should consider a bench top or floor model hollow chisel mortiser from Woodcraft isn't really in the market for a multi thousand dollar, multi thousand pound industrial mortiser to refurbish. We can all dream though.... Kind of like the answer to the question "2020 Toyota Corolla or Camry" being "import and refurbish a right hand drive 1985 Land Rover Defender."

But still - would love to see and hear more about your Maka! Any pics? Sounds like the bomb.

Mark Hennebury
04-27-2021, 6:42 PM
This is an automatic one. A small machine like the benchtop, only a floor model with automatic feed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJUJ796jxls

Mark Hennebury
04-27-2021, 6:48 PM
This is an Alternax;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvPA6KB47wI

Mark Hennebury
04-27-2021, 6:51 PM
A video of the Alternax cutting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk00VCUaRP0

Mark Hennebury
04-27-2021, 6:54 PM
A Balestrini twin table slot mortiser.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-4ot0j2qi8

Mark Hennebury
04-27-2021, 7:12 PM
Little Maka Chisels and mortises.

A wide variety of chisels, Single, double, haunched, and multiprofile.
Keep in mind this is the small machine.
Cuts up to 4" deep.


456749456750 456751

Double mortise sets, First photo below is a window set, right and left handed.
Secod phot are double mortise sets,

456752 456753

Michael Drew
04-27-2021, 7:12 PM
https://pantorouter.com

Not cheap, but neither was my Domino 500 or PM719T.

Thanks! Looks pretty cool. Hmmmm......but do I "need" one......I am a tool junkie, so probably not, but.....I am a tool junkie.

Phil Gaudio
04-27-2021, 7:15 PM
I'll mention that if you ever entertained the possibility of getting one of those fancy euro jointer/planers: they often come with the option of a slot mortiser. It really doesn't increase the footprint of the machine all that much, and its cost is in line with something like the Leigh FMT. When I purchased my J/P, I did not go with the mortiser, having never used one, and at the time I had no idea how useful they can be. After adding the slot mortising attachment, I became a convert.

Jim Dwight
04-28-2021, 11:41 AM
I still have my Jet benchtop hollow chisel mortiser but I have not used it since getting a Domino XL. I make a variety of things including beds and an occasional door and did not want to be limited to 1 inch deep mortises like the smaller domino makes. I do not find the 2 3/4 inch mortises of the XL to be limiting. Advantages include:

1) no need to cut tenons. I have my tenoning jig for the table saw and my shoulder plane but I can cut tenons out of scrap and round the edges much quicker and easier than I can make traditional tenons. I do not have to worry about the fit of the shoulder.

2) Takes up a LOT less space. My shop is 14x24 and space is thus at a premium. The domino gets stored on my outfeed/assembly bench within easy reach.

3) Doesn't make a mess. You have to hook it up to dust collection, I use a Rigid shop vac with a dust deputy, a quasi hepa filter, and a bosch 5 meter hose. Works well.

4) Nothing to sharpen or maintain. I don't like sharpening and for a hollow chisel mortiser to work well the bits must be sharp. I haven't worn out a domino bit yet but when one stops cutting well I will just buy another (from Amana or CMT, not Festool).

5) Easy quick accuracy. My hollow chisel is not a nice floor standing model with an indexing and clamping table but I find it much easier to make accurate mortises with my domino.

6) You can make mortises in nearly anything. Like the sides of cabinets, for instance.

7) Practically no limits on the size of mortises. For a bed, rather than use multiple small tenons I prefer to plunge several times and use the same size tenon I would with a hollow chisel mortiser. I have to make the tenon but that is what I do anyway. If you need a tenon wider than 14mm you can just do multiple plunges for the width too. As I said earlier I do not think 2 3/4 inch depth is much of a limitation.

8) More versatility in mortise size. You can get little 4mm bits for dominos. The smallest I have is 5mm. They won't make deep mortises but these little bits are handy for making drawers and for gluing up thinner panels. Might be handy for a more normal mortise and tenon joint in smaller stock. I've never seen a hollow chisel bit smaller than 1/4 inch.

I need to sell my hollow chisel mortiser, there is no chance I'll use it again.

Richard Link
04-28-2021, 12:36 PM
You are about to be marooned on a desert island that has (amazingly) 120v power and a single outlet. You can bring one tool. It sure isn’t going to be a hollow chisel mortiser. (Says the guy who currently owns two for no reason).

Alex Zeller
04-28-2021, 12:41 PM
Like most anything with woodworking there's multiple ways of making a M&T joint. I have a Grizzle floor mortiser. Not their top end one but the one that sells for about $1000 now (forget the model number). I got it because I wanted to do traditional M&T joints but didn't want to do it by hand. The Grizzly mortiser is very Chinese and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I kept it and spent time making it work the way it should have out of the crate. Now that I have I can say that, for me, I'm much happier than if I had a Domino. I'm sure the Domino is a fine tool and if I had one I wouldn't sell it to get a HC mortiser but I know how I like to work. I would rather clamp a board and then turn a wheel to fine tune exactly where the mortise is going to go. If you have room I would try to find a used PM 719T. Several came up but were just too far away and I had a project that I had to finish (and with Covid) I couldn't wait. If interested I can get the model number of the Grizzly and give a detailed review of it.

Tom Hyde
04-28-2021, 1:37 PM
As with anything, it depends on what you’ll be building, I guess. I’m very happy with a horizontal slot mortiser (Felder) and a domino XL. I’ve also used a template and router with an upcut spiral bit. But I (almost) never need a square ended mortise and work predominantly with slip tenons (1/2” and 3/4”) as opposed to integral tenons. I’ve found the only practical reason to have square ended mortises is for aesthetics in exposed joinery (for myself at least). But that doesn’t answer the question posed. Wish I could make a recommendation.

Jeff Roltgen
04-28-2021, 2:06 PM
I have the Powermatic and the Domino 500. 50-1 Domino is used over the PM. That being said, when large mortices are called for, either Mission style furniture or a very traditional passage door, I wouldn't be without my Powermatic. I find setup and accuracy a pleasure. I would buy the Powermatic again, but I can get pretty staunch on the traditional leanings, as furniture building is my first passion.

As for the Domino, it is used on almost every project in some way or another. Biscuit joiner almost never used anymore, due to accuracy of the Domino. Puzzled by other's assertions here regarding accuracy issues (other than the retractable indexing pins). Using the same one for about 10 years professionally, and accuracy still reliable. It is used for chair building, mitered cabinet doors - you name it. However, I would not build a passage door with it, nor do I have the larger XL version, so back to the Powermatic when heft, squareness are needed.

jeff

Thomas Pender
04-28-2021, 3:43 PM
Mostly agree with Jeff. I have a Mortiser and both Dominos. Each has its place, although when I do glue ups out comes the Domino to make the edges straight - really cuts down on the hand planing on 456778 wide stuff and super useful on laminations (picture attached) Also use the 500 Domino and 5mm x 20mm tenons to connect slats on the side of mission stuff. When you need to make a large square hole, like he says, the mortiser is king. Oh, made a door with 14 mm Domino stuff - strong as can be