Two Routers for Leigh Dovetail Jig?

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Anyone use two routers, one with the dovetail bit and another with the straight bit, for making through dovetails on a Leigh jig? I'm using a Super 12 not the D4R. The manual recommends not using two different routers because tolerances between the components (router concentricity, template guide bushing, etc) can lead to ill-fitting joints. It just seems so convenient to set up two different routers for the task.

[johnny means]

I use two. They're dedicated to the jig and once set up, don't get adjusted until the bits wear out. I'm not sure why they would say it would cause issues. Your more likely to have problems trying to dial one router in over and over again. When I feel like I need a different setup for thicker stock, I'll buy two more routers.

[Larry Frank]

I use two routers with my D4R.

[Mike Cutler]

Absolutely!!
I don't have a Leigh, but you will never go back to using a single router once you have it setup for two.
As Johnny also stated, you might as well buy the third router, because you are not going to want to use those two routers for anything other than dovetails once everything is setup.

[Ron Selzer]

I have two setup and dedicated to my Leigh 1285. only changing the height as the wood thickness changes.
Also have momentary foot switches that the PC690's plug into
Ron

[Tom M King]

Two 690's.

[Jim Becker]

While I owned the Leigh jig, I made every effort to do through dovetails using two routers so that once I had things locked in with test pieces, there was no introduced variability by having to change the tooling in a single motor. It's a very good practice to do that if you can. Two identical routers can add just a hair more to this because the "feel" will also be the same, but that's certainly not a requirement. What's most important is the setup and locking it in.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Ditto, surprised Leigh says to use just one. It's not hard to test concentricity, what other variable is there?

[Christopher Herzog]

Another vote for two. No brainer to me. Set up the test pieces how you want and off you go. How is that worse than changing the bits in one router? At least with two I can go back and make another if something happens to the first pass.

[Tony Joyce]

I use two with my Super18. Same as others, I leave them set up all time.

[Alex Zeller]

I don't have much time with my D4R yet so I've only used one but I will be adding a second one, most likely an old Craftsman I have otherwise doing nothing. I have a question about the Leigh jig. Maybe I missed it but can you flip the bar over (side to side) that holds the guide fingers? Obviously you flip it over front to back to go from pins to tails. But is the machining of the tool accurate enough to flip it side to side to make the cuts in the opposite side of the board? Or is it better to just do the same end of all the boards and then come back, adjust the jig, and do the other end of the boards? As I said, my experience is very light and so far I've just set up the fingers on the left side and then used the unused fingers to copy what I did on the left side.

[Dave Cav]

Two 690's.

Same here. I also have two old 70s vintage Craftsman routers for my Keller jig. I need to switch the 690s to the Keller jig as it's the one I use all the time, and sell the Leigh jig and Sears routers.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Thanks for the input, I'll set up two routers. The manual cautions against using two routers in multiple places -- 7-8 and 7-9 are two places where it mentions it.

[Warren Lake]

2 big porter cables dont remember the number. Handles down low not the plunge one as handles too high, need to be low.

[Jay Rasmussen]

Two 690's for me also.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Does Porter Cable still make the 690? I've got two Bosch 1617EVSs, but I like using them and don't think I want to dedicate them to only making dovetails. Plus, you need two adapters to use template bushings. I ordered a De Walt 616, they're only $124 and according to the specs, weigh almost 4 lbs less than the Bosch routers.

[Ed Aumiller]

Two routers dedicated... only way to go...
Mine are 690's but the Bosch 1617's are basically the same..

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for the input, I'll set up two routers. The manual cautions against using two routers in multiple places -- 7-8 and 7-9 are two places where it mentions it.

I suspect that's because many folks wouldn't take the time to insure that the router base is adjusted so that the guide insert is perfectly concentric with the tooling...that requires a "cone", etc., and is really important. But one should be doing that with even one router motor for this kind of application because the router WILL get reoriented during the cut just because of how human hands will move it. As long as one gets these adjustments as "perfect" as possible, things should work well.

[Jim Becker]

Does Porter Cable still make the 690?

The Porter Cable brand pretty much is out of the router business as well as for many other tools. Stanley/Black and Decker has deprecated the brand in favor of DeWalt and Craftsman, etc. The DeWalt DW611 and DW618 routers are very nice tools. I have the latter which is what I typically used with the Leigh jig when I owned it.

[Warren Lake]

ones I use are 75182. Sounds like a chicago song.

I have three and the plunge same size. The three were tortured for many years and still on the original bearings and work fine. Had read people had issues with them guess I lucked out on all four. They did tons of work. Sure not as tight as new but still did the work well. same with any router out of the box tight only lasts so long.

[Charles Lent]

I've made a lot of dovetails using my Leigh D4R jig.

I learned early on that router weight was important when cutting dovetails all day, because I remove the router from the jig each time when changing the work pieces. Lifting the router on and off of the jig can really be hard on the muscles if you do this all day. I built a small platform with a hole in the middle that is the same height as the dovetail jig, to put the router on when I'm changing the work pieces, so I can minimize the lifting and movement of the routers. I did this after the first full day, because I couldn't fully raise my arms to lift the routers again on the next day and had another 2 days of dovetail work to go.

I went with two Dewalt DW618 routers with the D handle bases, because they are one of the lighter routers available that have 1/2" bit capability (too much flex in 1/4" bit shanks). Using 2 routers eliminates the problem of getting the bit heights exactly right when changing the bits in a single router. Set the height on both bits once, and they will be right for as long as you need that setup. The bit height is very critical when doing 1/2 blind dovetails. I like the trigger control that's available when using the D handle bases. I have two 3 base DW618 router kits and a third 2 base DW618 kit in my shop router stable and I prefer them over others that I've tried using for dovetail work. I bought the second router bushing from Leigh, because I found that my router bushing kit did not contain the size bushing that was needed that was close enough in diameter to the original Leigh bushing. The one in the bushing kit was 0.018" smaller in diameter than the Leigh bushing. Use what you want, but this combination of routers and bushings is what has worked the best for me.

When using two identical routers, it's wise to put tape on the top of the router motors with a marking pen profile of the router bit drawn on it to show which bit is installed in the router. DAMHIKT !!

I also learned that drawing a marking pen arrow on the top of the router base and always pointing this arrow toward the D4R when doing the routing, pretty much eliminates the need to get the router bushing and bit perfectly concentric with each other. I go through the centering cone procedure, but if I'm a little bit off with this (can happen if bit height is changed later), keeping the router orientation the same using the arrow will result in a perfect fitting joint pattern, if I do everything else correctly. Doing this will remove any concentricity errors from the joint, because it will shift the whole joint slightly and not change the spacings of the cuts within the joint.

I learned to make two passes for each cut, to make certain that I have stayed against the jig guides, as it's easy to miss a spot and not stay tightly against the guides while making the first pass. Making a shallow climb cut from right to left when first cutting into each cut, then plunging in on the left and working to clear out the rest of the cut will reduce chip out.

I also learned to make use of the bridges between the ends of adjacent guides, so I don't make a cut between them where I shouldn't. I now use pieces of pine to make these bridges, since it's easy to cut the stock for them on the table saw from scrap. I usually then hand cut them to length with a hand held razor saw.

Charley

[Jim Becker]

Many of the Leigh specific tooling offerings are 8mm shanks which is stronger than the .25" shank tooling but fits better for many of the typical dovetailing operations that the jig is capable of. So choosing a router model that has 8mm collet capability available will be an asset in that case.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I received the DW 616 today and it looks exactly like what I'm looking to use in the Leigh Super 12 jig. I'm a little disappointed that it doesn't weigh the 6+ lbs Amazon said it did, but I wondered how that was possible in the first place. I'd say its just about the same weight as the Bosch 1617, which is over 10 lbs. I'm not real pleased with height adjustment ring being able to back off fairly easily, but I don't suppose it makes much difference if the motor is locked in place, the height can't change. I sure wouldn't want to use this as an every day router though. It does have one nice feature, there is a line across the clear base plate. It is in line with the direction of normal travel, but shifted 90 degrees, it serves as the 12 o'clock mark for indexing the Leigh e-bushing. You can also adjust the base for concentricity which is a nice feature. I haven't tried it out because I am currently finishing a cabinet in the shop and don't want to make any dust, but I'm hoping its a fairly inexpensive solution for my needs.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I've made a lot of dovetails using my Leigh D4R jig.

I learned early on that router weight was important when cutting dovetails all day, because I remove the router from the jig each time when changing the work pieces. Lifting the router on and off of the jig can really be hard on the muscles if you do this all day. I built a small platform with a hole in the middle that is the same height as the dovetail jig, to put the router on when I'm changing the work pieces, so I can minimize the lifting and movement of the routers. I did this after the first full day, because I couldn't fully raise my arms to lift the routers again on the next day and had another 2 days of dovetail work to go.

I went with two Dewalt DW618 routers with the D handle bases, because they are one of the lighter routers available that have 1/2" bit capability (too much flex in 1/4" bit shanks). Using 2 routers eliminates the problem of getting the bit heights exactly right when changing the bits in a single router. Set the height on both bits once, and they will be right for as long as you need that setup. The bit height is very critical when doing 1/2 blind dovetails. I like the trigger control that's available when using the D handle bases. I have two 3 base DW618 router kits and a third 2 base DW618 kit in my shop router stable and I prefer them over others that I've tried using for dovetail work. I bought the second router bushing from Leigh, because I found that my router bushing kit did not contain the size bushing that was needed that was close enough in diameter to the original Leigh bushing. The one in the bushing kit was 0.018" smaller in diameter than the Leigh bushing. Use what you want, but this combination of routers and bushings is what has worked the best for me.

When using two identical routers, it's wise to put tape on the top of the router motors with a marking pen profile of the router bit drawn on it to show which bit is installed in the router. DAMHIKT !!

I also learned that drawing a marking pen arrow on the top of the router base and always pointing this arrow toward the D4R when doing the routing, pretty much eliminates the need to get the router bushing and bit perfectly concentric with each other. I go through the centering cone procedure, but if I'm a little bit off with this (can happen if bit height is changed later), keeping the router orientation the same using the arrow will result in a perfect fitting joint pattern, if I do everything else correctly. Doing this will remove any concentricity errors from the joint, because it will shift the whole joint slightly and not change the spacings of the cuts within the joint.

I learned to make two passes for each cut, to make certain that I have stayed against the jig guides, as it's easy to miss a spot and not stay tightly against the guides while making the first pass. Making a shallow climb cut from right to left when first cutting into each cut, then plunging in on the left and working to clear out the rest of the cut will reduce chip out.

I also learned to make use of the bridges between the ends of adjacent guides, so I don't make a cut between them where I shouldn't. I now use pieces of pine to make these bridges, since it's easy to cut the stock for them on the table saw from scrap. I usually then hand cut them to length with a hand held razor saw.

Charley

Sounds like good, hard earned advice.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Many of the Leigh specific tooling offerings are 8mm shanks which is stronger than the .25" shank tooling but fits better for many of the typical dovetailing operations that the jig is capable of. So choosing a router model that has 8mm collet capability available will be an asset in that case.

It's too bad that a router like the Bosch Colt doesn't come with the industry standard router base to accept bushings and at least an 8mm collet. With 1.25 HP and light weight it seems ideal for making dovetails.

[johnny means]

It's too bad that a router like the Bosch Colt doesn't come with the industry standard router base to accept bushings and at least an 8mm collet. With 1.25 HP and light weight it seems ideal for making dovetails.
No. Routing dovetails is fairly violent. The router often wants to jump around. The Colt would be way underpowered and too lightweight.