Does veneer softener work on thick veneer?

[Brian Tymchak]

I tried my hand at cutting some thick (1/8") veneer from birch crotch, about 8" x 6". After cutting, I stacked the slices with some paper towels, mdf panels and some weight for 3-4 weeks. They came out nice and flat. Being the first time working with thick veneer, I experimented a bit with one slice. I used a ROS with 120/180 to smooth cut marks from the bandsaw. Worked well but I think this generated a lot more heat than I expected and turned my test piece into a potato chip. Is there a way to sand these pieces without generating as much heat, or is this a normal expectation?

Now I'm looking to flatten my test piece. Searched for Veneer Softener and found a strong recommendation for Super-Soft 2 on Joe Woodworker's site. There is a comment there that says softeners generally are less effective on thicker veneers. So, my question to those in the know is if veneer softeners can work on thick veneers, and if there are any special steps to soften thick veneer?

Thanks for your help.

[Robert Engel]

It is a good product. All I can say is soak it well and see what happens.

[Tony Joyce]

I have used the Super-Soft on 1/16" veneer with good results. My advice would be to soak(spray wet) both sides and let it sit several minutes before pressing, as it takes a little while to be effective. Clamp between two platens and leave several days. Change the newsprint paper at least every day to draw out excess moisture. I personally would leave it clamped/ weighted flat till I was ready to use. If left out unclamped it will probably twist again, but can be resoftened.

Good Luck! Tony

[Mel Fulks]

1/8 th thick makes it a “facing” ,not veneer. If the product was intended for facings,I think the label would indicate that . A little water and
a hot iron might fix it .

[johnny means]

1/8 th thick makes it a “facing” ,not veneer. If the product was intended for facings,I think the label would indicate that . A little water and
a hot iron might fix it .

I've never heard anyone refer to an ⅛" outer layer of wood as anything but veneer. I think the veneer vs facing probably has more to do with construction and utilization rather than thickness.

[Mike Henderson]

I have used the Super-Soft on 1/16" veneer with good results. My advice would be to soak(spray wet) both sides and let it sit several minutes before pressing, as it takes a little while to be effective. Clamp between two platens and leave several days. Change the newsprint paper at least every day to draw out excess moisture. I personally would leave it clamped/ weighted flat till I was ready to use. If left out unclamped it will probably twist again, but can be resoftened.

Good Luck! Tony

When Tony suggested "newsprint" it's best not to use newsprint that has been printed. The ink can come off on the veneer. Best to use unprinted paper.

Mike

[Brian Tymchak]

When Tony suggested "newsprint" it's best not to use newsprint that has been printed. The ink can come off on the veneer. Best to use unprinted paper.

Mike

Is newsprint a significantly better choice than paper towels ?

[Brian Tymchak]

I've never heard anyone refer to an ⅛" outer layer of wood as anything but veneer. I think the veneer vs facing probably has more to do with construction and utilization rather than thickness.

Have to admit that I don't know the difference between veneer and facing.

[Tony Joyce]

When Tony suggested "newsprint" it's best not to use newsprint that has been printed. The ink can come off on the veneer. Best to use unprinted paper.

Mike


You are indeed correct. I've never used actual printed newspaper myself. Sometimes I take too much for granted, I should I have included that.

Tony

[Tony Joyce]

Is newsprint a significantly better choice than paper towels ?


Yes or a plain craft type paper(again no print). Unprinted newspaper is readily available in sheets or rolls of many sizes on Amazon. Sheets seem easier for me.

[Mel Fulks]

I just looked it up, my post is correct. Long time ago cabinet makers used both ,I’m guessing it was a nice up-charge for the cabinetmaker
and another “pride of ownership “ thing for the buyer to say “ we went for the FACING, it’s thicker than veneer ...even with the clear-coat”
If facings are no longer sold by suppliers then that might be why we don’t hear about them. I think that you guys could probably make them
and sell them. One-up-mon-ship is why people keep buying new kitchen cabinets, when none of the shelves have collapsed.

[Edwin Santos]

I tried my hand at cutting some thick (1/8") veneer from birch crotch, about 8" x 6". After cutting, I stacked the slices with some paper towels, mdf panels and some weight for 3-4 weeks. They came out nice and flat. Being the first time working with thick veneer, I experimented a bit with one slice. I used a ROS with 120/180 to smooth cut marks from the bandsaw. Worked well but I think this generated a lot more heat than I expected and turned my test piece into a potato chip. Is there a way to sand these pieces without generating as much heat, or is this a normal expectation?

Now I'm looking to flatten my test piece. Searched for Veneer Softener and found a strong recommendation for Super-Soft 2 on Joe Woodworker's site. There is a comment there that says softeners generally are less effective on thicker veneers. So, my question to those in the know is if veneer softeners can work on thick veneers, and if there are any special steps to soften thick veneer?

Thanks for your help.

What is your plan with this veneer? I assume you will be gluing it to a substrate, maybe using a vacuum press, maybe only using cauls.
So this makes me whether the bandsaw marks need to be sanded at all.
Unless they are really bad, my practice has been to go straight to glue up from the saw, taping and joining the veneer if needed first. Granted, I usually resaw my veneers with a high class Woodmaster CT carbide tipped bandsaw blade which leaves a pretty good surface. But even the surface I get from a pedestrian carbon steel blade would not give me pause in gluing up.

The point being that face gluing veneer to a substrate is a large glue surface area in relative terms, and it shouldn't require a perfect smooth mating surface, so best to just glue up, and avoid the buckling in the first place. It also avoids buying yet another product that will take up more of your precious shop space. A product that I'm not convinced will do what you want anyway.

[johnny means]

I do a lot of thick veneer work. Hundreds of square feet at a time. Sometimes it cups and goes squirrely before it gets laid up. I see absolutely no reason why I need to flatten it to use it.

[Richard Coers]

To answer your question, a random orbit sander with 120 grit is not the way to cut out saw marks. Too much heat as you found out and it will not produce a flat surface. Drum sander, flat belt sander, stroke sander and even a handheld belt sander are all better options. More importantly is that the wood is not nearly dry enough if it changed from sanding.

[Brian Tymchak]

What is your plan with this veneer? I assume you will be gluing it to a substrate, maybe using a vacuum press, maybe only using cauls.
So this makes me whether the bandsaw marks need to be sanded at all.
Unless they are really bad, my practice has been to go straight to glue up from the saw, taping and joining the veneer if needed first. Granted, I usually resaw my veneers with a high class Woodmaster CT carbide tipped bandsaw blade which leaves a pretty good surface. But even the surface I get from a pedestrian carbon steel blade would not give me pause in gluing up.

The point being that face gluing veneer to a substrate is a large glue surface area in relative terms, and it shouldn't require a perfect smooth mating surface, so best to just glue up, and avoid the buckling in the first place. It also avoids buying yet another product that will take up more of your precious shop space. A product that I'm not convinced will do what you want anyway.

Interesting. The cut is fairly smooth but II assumed a smoother surface would be needed for decent adhesion. These slices will be cut to shape and glued into a recess in a hardwood panel. Clamped with a caul of sorts, a block about the same shape.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[Brian Tymchak]

To answer your question, a random orbit sander with 120 grit is not the way to cut out saw marks. Too much heat as you found out and it will not produce a flat surface. Drum sander, flat belt sander, stroke sander and even a handheld belt sander are all better options. More importantly is that the wood is not nearly dry enough if it changed from sanding.

That could be. The piece I sliced up was about 1" thick, and air dried indoors about a year at the time I cut it. The slices were stacked with paper towels for about 4 weeks before I tried my experiment.

[Don Stephan]

More than once or twice I've read that veneer as thick as 1/8" starts to act like solid wood when humidity changes. I have no experience with veneer that thick and don't have a band saw that will reliably cut uniform thickness veneer.