14 degree bevel

[Howard Barlow]

A friend wants to cut a 14 degree bevel on both sides of several 4x12x12' cedar beams for a pergola. It will be a pretty deep cut, more than a circular saw will reach. I suggested building a couple of cradles and going through a bandsaw.

Sitting here thinking about it, I suppose he could rent a 14" Makita circular saw. That should be big enough. Any other suggestions?

[Marcel LeBlanc]

All he has to do is use his TS, cut all the pieces on one both sides, then turn the pieces upside down and cut the remainig.

[Rob Will]

I may be lost here. How about using the circle saw to go as deep as it can, cutting off the corners at 14 degrees thus leave a little flat area that will be hidden anyway?

Rob

[Howard Barlow]

He is adamant about a single cut, as he is afraid of misalignment. As well, he wants a through cut, not a step. I agree, it will not be seen except by people over 10' tall.:D

[Andy Hoyt]

Resaw bandsaw - only way I can see it happening

[Kent Parker]

You can make a beveled infeed board for the infeed table of a planer.

You'll need to make multiple passes to eventually plane down to the width of the piece but it will turn out nice and smooth.

Additionally, hand planing starting with an electric planer and finishing with a nice long joiner. You can pre-cut the bevel with a saw, even if its only a portion of the width, the cut portion will give your planer guidance during the final planing.

Cheers,

Kent

[tod evans]

hey guys he`s talking about 4x12x12 beams here.....they aint gonna fit through a planer on an angle. howard just have your buddy rent the makita and be done with it.

[Frank Pellow]

If it were me, I would also want to do the job in one cut and I would rent the Makita 14" saw.

[Andy Hoyt]

Tod/Frank -- A 14" makita has a depth of cut somewhere around 6".

Of course I'm assuming that this beam is standing up and the long faces are the ones to be beveled.

However, if the wood is laying over on its side it's no longer a beam. It is a plank. And in this case, the 14" makita would indeed work on the sides - as would a bandsaw. Having worked that makita many times over the years I do know that it's lousy at ripping due to intense blade deflection. Thusly, the bandsaw remains my suggestion for the beam or the plank.

[Frank Pellow]

Tod/Frank -- A 14" makita has a depth of cut somewhere around 6".

Of course I'm assuming that this beam is standing up and the long faces are the ones to be beveled.

However, if the wood is laying over on its side it's no longer a beam. It is a plank. And in this case, the 14" makita would indeed work on the sides - as would a bandsaw. Having worked that makita many times over the years I do know that it's lousy at ripping due to intense blade deflection. Thusly, the bandsaw remains my suggestion for the beam or the plank.
OK, I have never used the large Makita saw so I did not know about the deflection. I have a smaller Makita circular saw and it is quite good.

So, I guess that I woulod need to attempt this with a bandsaw -but I don't have a lot of confidence about my abilities with a bandsaw :( .

[Howard Barlow]

Yes, Andy is correct, it is on it's edge. I think I'll call him and mention the Makita. Personally, I would forego anything only birds and pilots will see.:rolleyes:

[tod evans]

sorry man i thought he`d be cutting it laying down. for going accross the face i`d probably use a router sled and a straight bit..tod

[Andy Hoyt]

The 14" Maikta is a two handed saw. Tons of torque when launched so it wants to really jump on you. The blade is extremely thin - about 1/16" kerf - which is why it deflects so easily. But that thickness/thinness is needed so the saw will have enough testosterone to bull its way through the thick stuff.

Trust your original instinct, Howard and go with the bandsaw. You won't need cradles if the table tilts. But you will need infeed and outfeed extensions and a nice tall fence.

[Howard Barlow]

That was my first suggestion to him, but he doesn't have one. But, we decided it was the thing to do. Of course, I would not be there when he told you-know-who he bought it so he could build HER pergola. It's just my job to come up with ideas. It's his job to implement them.:D

Thanks for the input, folks.

[tod evans]

while we`re at it prazi makes a neet little attachment for a worm drive that uses a chainsaw blade?????

[Andy Hoyt]

Tod - been there too. Works great for cross cutting - as in birdsmouthing rafters and such. Actually this was its intention when first brought to the market years ago. And for ripping it's just like any chainsaw. Uber rough cutting only and a bear to keep it running straight.

[Howard Barlow]

Oh, yeah, Tod, now I remember that... since you mention it.:p I'll offer that, as well. It's his money, I'm just trying to help him spend it.

[Alan Turner]

I think I would do this on my jointer. Glue on a piece of wood, along the length, thick enough so that a straight edge laid across, from the corner of the new board to the opposite edge of the cedar, equals a 14 degree bevel. Then joint away, both the corner of the new board and the opposite edge of the cedar. It will take a bunch of passes, but will be accurate.

[Howard Barlow]

That's a good idea, too, Alan, but I don't think he has one. But, that's what tool stores are for.

[Frank Pellow]

OK, I have never used the large Makita saw so I did not know about the deflection. I have a smaller Makita circular saw and it is quite good.

So, I guess that I woulod need to attempt this with a bandsaw -but I don't have a lot of confidence about my abilities with a bandsaw :( .
I have been thinking about this some more and the more I think anbout it the less I would like to do this on a bandsaw. What it really boils down to is that for wood this big, I would much prefer to have the tool moving through the wood rather than having the wood moving through the tool. So, what I would probably do would be first to cut a 14 degree angle as deep as I could with a circular sdaw that I could trust and then complete the cut with a good hand rip saw (I have a good Sandvik rip saw that is about 40 years old -I assume that they are still available).

[Jay Knoll]

Why not make a jig similar to the LV saddle square, only bigger of course, that has the proper geometry, one which could guide the handheld power saw? One side would be 90 degrees, the other would be the desired angle. You could cut the angles on the side with the saw set at 90 degrees, then angle the saw to parallel the desired angle and run the saw along the guide to cut the top and bottom to finish the angle.

I think you could also do this with a guided saw system.

If there was a "nub" left over in the middle, you could easily trim that down with a block plane or belt sander.

[Burt Waddell]

I'm sure this will work. Take a look. http://www.eurekazone.com/images/gallery/giantmakita.html

You can even attach a hand held power planer to get a perfect finish.

[Howard Barlow]

Good info, folks. I am trying to get in touch with my friend, Dan. I will forward all the ideas to him. He wants to do this in one pass so there are no misalignments. We'll see.:rolleyes:

[Andy Hoyt]

I'm getting a bit frustrated with this.

Howard - why don't you post a drawing (as detailed as possible) of what your buddy wants. We're shooting blind.

[Howard Barlow]

Ok, here's my best drawing...:rolleyes:

From what Dan explained to me...

You are looking (in your mind's eye, there is no pic) at the butt end of a 4x12 standing on edge. He wants to cut a 14° bevel down both sides of the beam. I don't recall how far in from the top edge he wants to start, but it will result in a cut that is deeper than a table or circular saw blade will reach. He wants one cut, no near miss aligning.

That's why I first suggested he buy a band saw and make a set-up on both sides so he could slide it through.

He works long hours and I can only talk to him at night or weekends. So far, I haven't caught him. I guess I will leave a note on his door to call me.

[Gary Sutherland]

I have my "I want that" tool list.

And my "wishful thinking" list.

And, then of course, there's my "pure fantasy list"

Gary

[Kelly C. Hanna]

If the bevel is on the end, rent a sliding miter saw...if it runs the length of the beams, rent the big Makita saw.

[Luther Oswalt]

A friend wants to cut a 14 degree bevel on both sides of several 4x12x12' cedar beams for a pergola. It will be a pretty deep cut, more than a circular saw will reach. I suggested building a couple of cradles and going through a bandsaw.

Sitting here thinking about it, I suppose he could rent a 14" Makita circular saw. That should be big enough. Any other suggestions?
I think I would find a custom saw miller with a small band saw mill and work with them to cut it.
Leo

[Howard Barlow]

BINGO! Wish I'd thought of that. There is one about 20 minutes from here. Leo, take a tip out of petty cash.

[Steve Clardy]

I was about to suggest a bandmill.

[Luther Oswalt]

Let us know how it works out ....
Leo

[Howard Barlow]

Will do. Thanks.

[Howard Barlow]

:rolleyes: No good deed goes unpunished. I finally got a call from Dan. I suggested he talk to the bandsaw mill man. But, he's decided to build a frame of some sort to carry a power hand planer. I asked him about "no alignment marks". He said he thought he could get what he wanted this way.

Oh well... Thanks for the suggestions, folks. Next time I'll just let him figger it out.

[Vaughn McMillan]

...But, he's decided to build a frame of some sort to carry a power hand planer. I asked him about "no alignment marks". He said he thought he could get what he wanted this way...

I'm guessing he's never used a power hand planer on a wide surface before. :rolleyes: You might want to keep the number for that bandsaw mill handy. ;)

- Vaughn

[Mark Rios]

Hey everyone, I just went back and reread all the posts and had an idea (I know-UH OH).
Apparently these 4x12's are for the top members of a pergola right? Only 12' long, right? Not carrying any weight, right? What would happen if we thought out-of-the-box and built a .......box?

Okay, I think this is right. Instead of 45 degree corners on two 1x4's and two 1x12's, put two 14 degree rips on either edge of each piece and use butt joints, with the top 1x4 being a narrower rip than the bottom, of course, to make the taper. Or for a miter joint, the top needs to make a 76 degree angle, right? 90 -14 = 76 degrees. Cut 38 degree rips on the edges for the top of the box, laying the pieces flat on the TS table while ripping (like normal). Then, the make the same 38 degree cut for the bottom pieces but ripping them standing on edge (giving you, in effect a 52 degree rip if you could rip it flat. 90 + 14 = 104 degrees).

Wouldn't this work? As long as the top members were just decorative and didn't carry any weignt I don't see why not. Also, those 4x12's are going to want to twist and/or crack being out in the weather.

What do you think?

[Howard Barlow]

Mark, he has the 4x12's in his shop. I don't think he will consider anything else, as we discussed this at length some time back. When I mentioned the bandsaw mill, he had pretty much "figured out" a sled for the power planer.

Who knows, after he starts, or finishes, the planer, he may load 'em up and head to the mill.

[Mark Rios]

Mark, he has the 4x12's in his shop. I don't think he will consider anything else, as we discussed this at length some time back. When I mentioned the bandsaw mill, he had pretty much "figured out" a sled for the power planer.

Who knows, after he starts, or finishes, the planer, he may load 'em up and head to the mill.


Ok, it was just a thought. A very late night thought. :D :D :D

[Bob Swenson]

Am I missing something or have you guys become to mechanized. I would
mark it and use my trusty "Sandvik" cordless cross cut and have it over
with.:cool:

[Howard Barlow]

18v?:D :D :D

[Doug Jones]

If it were me, I would also want to do the job in one cut and I would rent the Makita 14" saw.




I guess that I would need to attempt this with a bandsaw.



So, what I would probably do would be first to cut a 14 degree angle as deep as I could with a circular sdaw that I could trust and then complete the cut with a good hand rip saw


Frank, you crack me up. You just about got all options covered.http://www.dvdrextreme.com/vb/images/smilies/LOL_Hair.gif

[Shelley Bolster]

HAHA Doug.......that is funny! :D Frank is gonna cut that board if it kills him......Strange there was no mention of a beaver to simply knaw away at it - a Canadian Beaver of course. Hey Frank, sorry to laugh at your expence, actually...I think all your ideas were good. You would be a great one to have around for brainstorming!