Hammer Purchase Confusion

[Bryan Hall]

Just wondering about anyones recent purchase experience with Hammer? I'm excited about their tools, but they seem to throw up a barrier at every turn.

The long wait times I understand, it's covid. The lack of delivery service, is a bit troubling, but I'm trying to work with it. The recommendation of a $1000 installation setup fee by their technicians caught me off guard, and feels ominous with them saying the price triples if I try to set it up myself and fail. Today I was ready to pull the trigger, but then they told me they charge a 6% credit card fee and can only charge 20% of the purchase at a time, and would need to run my card 5 times. Apparently this is to protect them from people receiving machines and then disputing the charges on their card???

Is this normal? I'm just dumbfounded about a major company having so many hiccups to getting the machine paid for, delivered, and running properly...

[Mike Kreinhop]

When I was shopping for a saw a few years ago, I wanted a Hammer K3 Basic. Even then, there was a long lead time because the saws are made to order. I had to make my own arrangements for shipping, delivery to my shop, setup, and commissioning after I was notified the saw was ready...maybe in 120 days...maybe longer. This was well before COVID, so I can't imagine what the lead time is now. There was no discussion of credit card payments or down payments, since the saw had to be purchased by bank transfer of the full amount. This wasn't a problem, but the other factors were.

Then I found a distributor for SCM about 25 kilometers from my house who just happened to have a new SC-2 Classic, with the scoring blade option, on the showroom floor ready for delivery. The price, which was a little less than the K3, included delivery, setup, and commissioning. I had to wait a few days for delivery because the SCM tech was on vacation and wouldn't be back until the following Monday. I don't regret my purchase decision.

[Lisa Starr]

My down payment was via Credit Card with no 6% charge. The remaining balance at time of shipping was via ACH Debit with my signed authorization. They arranged for shipping and it was included in my balance payment. They had estimated the shipping charges before I purchased the machine and when it was time to ship the estimate was valid.

I'm not sure what type of machine you're purchasing, but I didn't need setup, so I can't comment on that part.

As for needing to run your credit card, many cards now have daily dollar limits for a single charge. They may have to work around that, and thus need to make multiple transactions. In view of the fee and this difficulty, I'd probably just arrange for a different payment method for the final payment.

[Joe Hendershott]

My recent experience was with SCM but wasn't exact;y smooth. Perhaps the same with Hammer I think it might be because the bulk of sales is with much more expensive machines bought by companies paying other ways. There were many people with some role in the order, which didn't help.

If it is easier you might inquire about a wire if the amount is large- it worked for me.

If it's a slider or other small piece of equipment you should be able to install yourself if you have a lift or man power to move it.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I've bought two Hammer machines, about a year apart, from the east coast sales person.

My experience was the same as Lisa's, put a deposit down and then paid via ACH.

My Shaper, which was my second purchase, I delayed delivery by 4 months, after putting my deposit down, because I wsa in the middle of a big project and didn't have room for it.

Both machines required minimal setup.

Super happy with both machines.

[Rod Sheridan]

Both of my Hammer machines were deposit by credit card, remaking balance by cheque.

No issues at all, including delivery to my garage by Felder truck.

The third machine I bought used from Felder and paid by cheque, no deposit as it wasn’t ordered.....Regards, Rod

[Phil Gaudio]

Just wondering about anyones recent purchase experience with Hammer? I'm excited about their tools, but they seem to throw up a barrier at every turn.

The long wait times I understand, it's covid. The lack of delivery service, is a bit troubling, but I'm trying to work with it. The recommendation of a $1000 installation setup fee by their technicians caught me off guard, and feels ominous with them saying the price triples if I try to set it up myself and fail. Today I was ready to pull the trigger, but then they told me they charge a 6% credit card fee and can only charge 20% of the purchase at a time, and would need to run my card 5 times. Apparently this is to protect them from people receiving machines and then disputing the charges on their card???

Is this normal? I'm just dumbfounded about a major company having so many hiccups to getting the machine paid for, delivered, and running properly...

When I bought my jointer/planer, it was between Felder and Minimax. Although the machines were more or less equal, the games that Felder played in trying to sell the unit turned me completely off and pushed me to buy the Minimax: no regrets.

[Dan Friedrichs]

As a German/Austrian company, they don't seem to have the "customer is always right" attitude that Americans often expect, which can feel a bit "off putting". Hammer is also the low-cost brand - your expectations may simply be too high if you're expecting white-glove service.

For large purchases, it's not uncommon for a merchant to limit the amount you can put on a credit card and/or pass on the merchant fee. For instance, you probably can't buy a car on a credit card. Companies that allow you to put a large purchase on a credit card are still paying the merchant fees, so they must have that cost baked in to their prices. On a $10k purchase, most people would be aghast at paying $600 (or even $300) for the privilege of using a credit card, so perhaps this hassle would be easier to swallow if you thought of it as "getting a 6% discount"...

For commissioning - you only need to look at some of the threads here to see how hapless (and helpless) a small subset of people are with equipment. When you consider the cost of wages, travel, etc, $1k for a technician to come to you is quite reasonable. But I suspect the vast majority of folks are perfectly capable of doing the minimal set up on their own.

[Mick Simon]

My first Hammer order, the A3-41, I put the deposit on a CC, paid the balance prior to delivery. My second order, the HS950, was via wire transfer for the deposit. The balance was via direct withdrawal from my checking account. Their online form has a blank for entering the date of withdrawal. In my case I entered a date a few days before the machine was due to arrive at the Felder facility. Instead of waiting until the date I had entered, the withdrawal was made immediately once the form reached them - about two weeks early. Fortunately the funds were there, but I was a little miffed that they ignored the date.
I've been very happy with both machines. I also have two SCM/minimax machines and am equally happy with them.

[Jeremy Sims]

I bought a Robland Combi from Martin recently and my experience was nothing like this. I ordered in early December 2020 and paid a rounded 20% by check (or wire if you want), I was told a 10-12 week wait time an estimated $400-600 delivery fee. I emailed at the 11-week mark to get an update and was told it was on a ship expected to dock in a few days. They sent me the remaining balance with the delivery fee, which was right in the middle of their estimate. I got a call 2 days after it docked to set up a delivery time and received it two more days after that. My only real complaint with Martin was I never talked to the same person until I actually ordered the machine, it was back and forth between 3 different people in sales. You would email one person and another would somehow reply to their email or you would call one person and someone else would answer.

[Erik Loza]

Felder rep here:

1.) Most folks pay the deposit by CC. You can pay the balance by CC but will be charged a percentage. This is because the CC companies charge us a percentage. This is why the order form already has spaces to pay the balance by e-check. It’s not that we won’t take a CC for the blance. It’s that we try not to encourage it so that we don’t have to charge the customer a percentage.

2.) The stuff about liftgate service being “discretionary” on the quote docs is some legalese Austria puts in there. Assuming you live in a standard residential neighborhood, I have never had an A3 “not” be able to be delivered by a liftgate truck. If you live up long driveway/gravel road/etc., that is a different conversation.

3.) Speaking only for myself, I have never had an A3 customer require commissioning. The way I handle it is by leaving it up to the customer. If you’re the type of person that has lots of anxiety about adjusting machinery, then it might be worth paying for. If you are handy (the documentation is readily available) and don’t mind turning a wrench, then maybe you don’t need to spend that money?

All this being said, I’ve never personally had a customer with an A3 horror story. In fact, my customers usually tell me how awesome it is after they receive it. But, I also tell every customer up front that this is a 700lb.+ industrial machine that is coming via LTL delivery, not some box from Amazon. No matter what any other company says, if you are getting a 700lb.+ machine from them, it will be no different. I hope this all makes sense and best of luck to the OP in his search.

Erik

[Dave Sabo]

Erik - aren’t CC surcharge fees capped at 4% with actual rates being a bit less ?

I think we all realize there are costs involved , but 6% seems a bit punitive and egregious.

[Erik Loza]

Erik - aren’t CC surcharge fees capped at 4% with actual rates being a bit less ?

I think we all realize there are costs involved , but 6% seems a bit punitive and egregious.

Dave, I honestly thought it was 3%. 6% is news to me.

Erik

[Bryan Hall]

Thanks for the info everyone. Thanks for chiming in Erik. I was working with a Hammer sales rep so I wasn't able to read any of the info you mentioned. I tried one more time to purchase the machines, thinking I would be able to ask questions from this thread to be able to sort things out. Unfortunately I couldn't get through to the rep. Phone was off I expect. Gave up and purchased another brand.

[Erik Loza]

Bryan, that doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. People can call the toll free Felder phone number literally any time during normal business hours and reach a live human being. Even if your actual rep is not available, you will be routed to someone who can take your call. In fact, I took a sales call for my Dallas rep yesterday because it was urgent and he was in the showroom or something. Trust me: Nobody on our side takes sales calls casually.

Erik

[George Yetka]

Picked up my J/P from delaware which is only 80 miles from me 3 years ago. I paid via CC, with no extra charge. Setup was nothing on it.

[Bryan Hall]

Bryan, that doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. People can call the toll free Felder phone number literally any time during normal business hours and reach a live human being. Even if your actual rep is not available, you will be routed to someone who can take your call. In fact, I took a sales call for my Dallas rep yesterday because it was urgent and he was in the showroom or something. Trust me: Nobody on our side takes sales calls casually.

Erik

Not sure what to tell you Erik. I called twice, middle of the day. Both times it went straight to voicemail. I've only got one number and it's always rang back to a specific person. I called a rep for another company, after a quick chat they told me they would look for other owners in my area with their tools. (I tried this with Hammer as well, but there was apparently no-one in the area) They called me back in an hour with the name and number of someone 30 minutes away. I went and looked at the machines they had, and decided to move forward. Their wait times were the same as yours but the shipping, including lift gate services was free which saved me $1100 off of the quoted Hammer shipping costs.

Again, thanks for chiming in. Sounds like there is some confusion with these purchases at times. I just decided to go a route that was a little more straight forward and comfortable to me.

[Erik Loza]

OK, the last thing I want to do is get into a tit-for-tat thing on the internet but I actually DM'ed the rep the OP was working with, since none of this made any sense to me. Here is what I can share:

Any customer dealing that area rep (who has been with Felder a LONG time and has many happy customers) has their cell number. Perhaps it is that calls went to VM a couple of times but the same thing happens if a customer calls my cell and I happen to already be on the phone, in a customer's shop, etc. My expectation is that customers leave a voice mail and I'll call them back as soon as I can. I believe this is reasonable and in my experience, if someone is truly interested in what you are offering, they will hang tight for you to call back.

Just to reiterate, there is NEVER a situation with Felder USA where someone who truly is interested in a machine "doesn't get a call back". We (reps) take our business too seriously and management would never let it slide. In fact, I would go as far as to say that Felder USA has the best sales team for standard machines in the country and I feel pretty experienced in making that claim. So, if someone just doesn't like what we have to offer and chooses to go a different direction, that's certainly their choice, but for everyone else, we take your business more seriously than pretty much anyone. I hope this makes sense.

Erik

[Bryan Hall]

This was never an attack on hammer/felder or any rep, I was just inquiring about the process from other buyers since it was confusing/abnormal to me.

As I said before, it just seems like there was some confusion. Based on the other peoples comments in this thread, it doesn't seem like that confusion is all that uncommon. As such, I simply decided to go a different route. I'm sure you all have a great sales team and make great machines. The rep I talked to was very friendly, it's the processes around the purchase, delivery, and setup of the machine that weren't. I just decided to go with a machine that I was able to see, was easier to purchase, and saved me $1100 on shipping. That's all, it's nothing personal.

I went ahead and gave the rep a call just now and was able to reach them. There's zero bad blood between us and they completely understood the confusion and decision.

[Erik Loza]

No offense taken, Bryan. Just to clarify for the rest of the group how ordering works with Felder USA, the customer has two options: A few machines are available through the E-shop and can be ordered directly, without interacting with a sales rep. In those cases, the customer will be paying 100% of the balance at the time of the transaction. The other, more traditional method, is to work with a sales rep. In those cases, if the machine is not in stock, the customer will pay a deposit of somewhere between 10%-20% to reserve their machine, with the balance being due when that machine leaves the factory for the US. Deposits are typically placed by credit card and we encourage customers to pay the balance by E-check, though we can accept CC with an additional percentage. A few other key points:

Every are of the US has a dedicated sales rep. Some reps cover multiple states while some, like me, handle pretty specific areas. In any event you will most likely have the cell # of your area rep. We all communicate with our customers by text as well as mobile call and email. Most reps also have a dedicated office line that you can reach by dialing the toll free number on the bottom of the website. In any case, customers should be able to reach their appropriate rep at any time. In the case that a rep is traveling, on vacation, etc., there is always a live human being at Felder USA's toll free number who will pick up the phone and get you to a rep who can answer your questions, write a quote, take an order, etc.

Regarding referrals, that is challenging in the time of Covid. I can't speak for any other reps but many of my hobby customers are reluctant to have guests in their garages and pro shops all have specific protocols in place about visitors. This being said, there are ABUNDANT videos on Youtube for pretty much any Hammer or Felder machine you can imagine. In fact, I routinely send out emails with 3-4 YT links per machine. So, "Yeah", it's awesome to see the machinery in person but we can get you next-best without too much effort.

Just to recap, Felder USA is ready and standing by to help customers out. We are as responsive as you need us to be and have many tools available to get you as much info as humanly possible about our machinery. Our reps have all been doing this a long time and we have, in my opinion, the best after-sale support in the industry. To the OP, I'm glad you found something you liked and best of luck with that experience.

Erik

[Robert London]

I emailed the Felder guys. Got a few calls and was also emailed several times. Was just in the research phase and didn't buy anything. I've been in sales most of my life, and stuff does fall through the cracks and nobody is perfect.

Email is often best for a lot of sales people. There's so many junk calls and VM to sort though at times, it can be tough.

It sounds like the OP was turned off by Hammer, and if you really don't want to do something, you'll find a way to buy from somebody else.

As far as sales approach, the Felder/Hammer guys seemed more aggressive. Which doesn't bother me because sales is sales. But now when stuff is backordered 9 months, there's more customers that there is equipment. I don't like the pay 3x times more to get somebody to your house approach as the OP mentioned with trying to upsell services.

But at the end of it all, the machine is the machine. You could have a iffy sales experience and get an awesome machine, or super pleasant and all smiles with your sales person, then you get the machine with some problems.

[William Chain]

I had a great experience with Felder USA on my recent Hammer A3-41 purchase. From talking to Erik here on this board, to the local sales rep, to the local techs here (I'm very close to the Delaware warehouse / distribution point) - it was pretty darn smooth. COVID crap aside, they were responsive and helpful, sorry your guy seems weird OP.

FWIW - I had the commissioning done on my A3-41 (it was waaaaay out, which I gather is unusual for this machine, and it took the tech 4 hours to dial it in - it was that far out). I paid the extra cash, well worth it in the end. The reps got back to me pretty quick when I asked for the service after the machine arrived and I had declined that service when I bought the machine initially. Didn't matter to them, they were great, returned calls and emails, and set me up - all this with the COVID crap making the office lines a mess. I now have the personal cells of the tech, the sales rep, and some other folks at the main Delaware office. Can't get better service than that. If I can afford another Felder going forward, they're my first call.

[Julie Moriarty]

Just wondering about anyones recent purchase experience with Hammer? I'm excited about their tools, but they seem to throw up a barrier at every turn.

The long wait times I understand, it's covid. The lack of delivery service, is a bit troubling, but I'm trying to work with it. The recommendation of a $1000 installation setup fee by their technicians caught me off guard, and feels ominous with them saying the price triples if I try to set it up myself and fail. Today I was ready to pull the trigger, but then they told me they charge a 6% credit card fee and can only charge 20% of the purchase at a time, and would need to run my card 5 times. Apparently this is to protect them from people receiving machines and then disputing the charges on their card???

Is this normal? I'm just dumbfounded about a major company having so many hiccups to getting the machine paid for, delivered, and running properly...

When I purchased a Hammer A3-31 I didn't run into the CC charges you posted but I was a bit taken aback by the fact the JP might have to be setup after it arrived. Had they quoted me $1000 for setup or pay triple if I tried to do it and failed, I probably would have walked.

But trying to get the info on how to setup the JP was like pulling teeth. Somewhere along the line I remembered someone saying Felder/Hammer tools are target toward the professional. But then I had to ask, "Why do they market it to non-professionals?"

IIRC, I was charges a small CC fee but for the final payment I provided bank info and no fees were applied. But in the end, I'm very happy with the A3-31. I got the Silent Power head and it has been put through its paces without any problems. And I have fed it some really tough woods.

[Alan Lightstone]

I had a wonderful experience a few years ago with Felder, and my rep (Juan Carlos). I had to delay delivery multiple times due to construction delays on my workshop, and they were more than understanding. In fact, my machines sat in a warehouse for over a year. At one point I told them to sell mine and reorder for me. Now this was pre-Covid, so a different world, but I actually flew to Delaware to see the machines (and many others). The rep actually took me out to lunch and we shot the breeze before my trip back.

So personally, I have nothing but great things to say about Felder, my rep, and most importantly my machines.

I can't imagine what it's like now in our Covid world trying to get machines. I'm stunned when I hear the delivery times. And I watched a very nice customer in a local store purchase a Festool Domino, but the store had no correct size dominos in stock for his machine/bit, and no useful bit sizes for him. Wasn't the store's fault, the retail associate tried his best to find what he could for him, but in the end this guy bought an expensive tool that he won't be able to use for months.

[Michael Rector]

I can’t imagine a better experience than the ones I’ve had with Felder.

I purchased a Hammer A3-31 and a FB510 and start to finish it was an amazing experience. I had a baby and sold both :)

But now I have a N4400 and K700 on order and same amazing experience as the first time around.

CC deposit and wire transfer when ready to ship. Easy peasy.

[Thomas Crawford]

Just thought I'd chime in that Erik was my sales rep for my A3-41 purchase last year and everything was great. Of course there were COVID delays but crap happens and I'm a hobbiest so it didn't ruin anything for me to have a wait a bit longer. Erik was really proactive on letting me know schedule updates whenever he had them. I live in a residential neighborhood with a shop in my back yard and liftgate service dropped it in my garage because it wouldn't fit through my gate, otherwise the guy would have taken it all the way down the sidewalk to the shop.

When I'm back in the market for a slider or bandsaw I'll be looking at them first.

[Clifford McGuire]

Is it common for companies to charge 6% to use a credit card? I don't think I've run into that before.

And did I hear that right? Felder will charge $3000 for an installation visit if you forgo the setup charge at time of purchase?

[Erik Loza]

Is it common for companies to charge 6% to use a credit card? I don't think I've run into that before. And did I hear that right? Felder will charge $3000 for an installation visit if you forgo the setup charge at time of purchase?

Clifford, it appears that some misinformation was attributed to us earlier in this thread and I'd like to set the record straight:

-We have never charged any customer 6% for a CC transaction. In fact, I couldn't believe that when I read it, so asked our Accounting Manager point-blank. In her words, "We have never charged anyone 6% for using their card".

Regarding commissioning or calibration (I try to avoid using the term "installation" because that could imply that Felder is responsible for putting a customer's machine in place, which is not the case), there is a fixed fee per machine that we use. It is voluntary. Every Felder customer must check yes or no on their quote prior to the order being finalized by their rep. Some machines, in my experience (any Hammer machine and most smaller Felders except full combos) really don't need it. Whatever adjustments might be required can generally be done by the customer with support from our techs. That being said, if you have seen the rates we charge, then you would agree that we actually lose money on every calibration job. For example, the national (non-local) calibration cost on an A3-41 is something like $1,100. Now think about that for a moment. Suppose we have to fly a tech from Delaware to someplace like a rural part of the Midwest. That's a three-day trip between airfare, car rentals, hotel, and drive time. For comparison's sake, I wonder what an electrician or plumber would ask if you wanted them to come out for a three-day trip? You get my point. So, I want to be clear that when we ask you if you want installation, it's not to make money off you. It's because Felder's priority is that you have the best experience possible with your machine. Furthermore, Felder is the only company in this industry who even offers a service like this and I think that is worth something, too. Hope this helps clarify,

Erik