Jointer/Planer Guidance

[Craig Eick]

Good afternoon. I hope this finds you all well this Easter Weekend.

I am considering purchasing a jointer/planer combo for a small shop. I currently have an 8” powermatic HH jointe, a DeWalt DW 735 planner and a Supermax 19-38 drum sander. I am a hobbyist at best; however, as my skills get better i would like a larger planer 15” or 20”. The 8” jointer is great and works most of the time; however, there have been times when i would have liked to have a larger jointer. i would not mind having a 12” minimum as i have enjoyed working on some larger projects. The cost of a 12” jointer and a 15” or 20” planer got me to thinking about a combination unit. As I look towards slowing down in my professional life i would like to have a my shop set up when that day comes. I got started in woodworking 3 years ago. Therefore, i am trying to make good purchases one time. I don’t mind spending more if the value is there.

To that end i am looking at the Hammer A3-41 and the SCM Minimax 41C or Minimax 41E. I have found some information about SCM but not much on the Minimax 41C. There is more information about the Hammer product on YouTube etc which has been helpful. I don’t have the experience at this time to do a thorough side by side comparison between the two. The minimax with the xylene cutter lock is more expensive; however, close enough to consider. The 41E may get out of my price range as it appears to be $2,300 more expensive based on the pricing that i have received. Upon review of the specs I can see the differences; however, I do not know enough about the machines to know the value of the additional costs. With all of that being said i want to consider the machine if it makes sense.

Any thoughts, guidance etc you would care to share would be appreciated.

Thank you

Craig

[Jim Becker]

Both brands are great machines. I'm in the SCM/Minimax camp. I like the Tersa knives I have and don't regret not having any kind of helical or spiral cutting head at all.

[Lisa Starr]

As Jim has said, both brands have good machines. I recently spent a considerable amount of time researching these and other machines prior to purchasing a Hammer A3-31 with the Silent Power head. I was selling a 15" 4 post planer and had been "getting by" for 15+ years without a jointer. After narrowing my choice to the Hammer line, I really soul searched before ordering the 12" model. I looked at the types of projects I do, and though I very occasionally would wish for a larger model, decided the 12" was the sweet spot for me. Good luck with your decision.

[Scott Bernstein]

Another vote for the Hammer A3 series. Also a hobbiest with a garage shop, so I need highly mobile tools which can be stored as compact as possible. Hammer is the "hobbiest" line of Felder products. Felder is the professional/small commercial line and the most costly heaviest-duty machines are the Format4 machines which, I believe, are intended for commercial production and industrial shops. I am extremely happy with my Hammer A3-41 16" jointer-planer combo machine which I've had for about 18 months.

For a hobbiest, this is a huge, powerful machine. Dust collection is great. I like the finish the segmented helical cutter head provides. Very easy to convert from jointer to planer and back. The digital height gauge, an add-on, works great for the planer. You can also add table extensions to the jointer infeed & outfeed, as well as the planer outfeed. Lastly, this machine also supports the slot mortiser attachment so with one machine you get jointer, planer, and slot mortiser. It is indeed expensive, but considering the capacity and flexibility it is actually a great deal compared to purchasing separate dedicated machines with the same capacity. Have you looked at the size and cost of stand-alone 16" jointers?

I have also heard great things about the SCM products.

SB

[Nancy Strevelowski]

Make sure you check out CWI machinery scorpion units. I’m really happy with mine.

[Alex LaZella]

I have a minimax 41C with a Xylent head and am quite happy with it. the giant plastic pork chop guard is junk, especially at the price point, but it does the job. I think a Euro guard is another $400. I frequently handle 14" and larger wood and the machine handles everything well. Sam Blasco is a great resource for SCM and can help with any questions about their products.

[Craig Eick]

Alex
Good morning. I hope this finds you well.
Thank you for your feedback. Did you consider the Hammer or the 41E as you were making your decision. I think the 41C may fit my needs as well however trying to evalute if the 41E is worth the additional cost for my needs in the future as well. I am probably overthinking it. The price difference would help purchase some other tools/equipment.

Thanks again

Craig

[Rod Sheridan]

I’m enjoying my second Hammaer A3-31.

Great machine, wouldn’t hesitate to buy it again...Regards, Rod.

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

Brent (Brent's Woodworking) has a couple of youtube videos on Hammer A3 jointer/planner combos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3Y8yM0GjE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0JAZ9kBy6k

[Jebediah Eckert]

For what it is worth.....

I went from a smaller helical head to a larger combo machine with a tersa head. I wanted a helical style again and was hesitant to go with the Tersa. The only reason I was considering it was a crazy deal for a new machine, but they only had tersa heads at that price. So to go helical style it was the normal up charge, plus I’d lose the discounted price. I went tersa and actually like it better then the helical. I never put anything “questionable” across my old jointer in fear of chipping blades or whatever. Now I take a couple minutes and pop in an old set of blades, no issues. I like the flexibility that the quick blade switch allows for. The helical head is great, but there is a bunch of them to rotate when you mess them up. Do it once and you won’t want to do it again. Then if one doesn’t seat just right......Well, that’s not fun.

[Alex LaZella]

Craig,

I did consider the Hammer, Felder and the SCM41E. The Hammer and the SCM 41C were basically the same price. the Felder and the SCM41E seemed nicer but didn't offer enough for me to justify the cost increase. After almost paralyzing myself with worrying about this or that I realized that I have been getting along planing and jointing for years with no computers in my machines at all. I was overthinking my needs. I would like the nicer fence on the SCM41E or the better 4 post support for the planer bed on the 41ES but the 41C meets all of my needs and does it without a lot of extraneous electronics so I have a high level of confidence that it will continue to do so far into the future. I mounted mine on a grizzly mobile base as the built in mobility kit, which works great, moved the machine in the wrong direction for my layout. After trying to parallel park it a few dozen times I gave up and used the grizzly. I would have been happy with the Hammer as well and I am fully confident that any of the machines you mentioned will make you very happy while helping you save space.

[Terry Therneau]

I have the 41c with a tersa head, and have had no complaints. I purchased it a few years ago when there was a sale of new old stock (11/2017, labeling was changing, but not the machine). There was some paint rubbed off one corner in shipping, but they sent me a rattle can that fixed it right up. In retrospect I wish I had gotten the 41E: there was one available and I could easily have afforded it; but a decades old habit of being cheap dies hard. I suspect that the larger cutting diameter may have been less prone to tear out. But as I said, I have no actual reason to complain. The mobility kit is well worth it by the way.

I also think that the porkchop jointer guard is subpar: it is hard to get mine to self close reliably. That said, I rarely joint on it. I still have my 6" Yates (direct drive, early 1920s), most parts end up at <6" for what I mostly build, and cranking the table up/down is just enough of a nuisance to make me hesitate.

A 16" planer can fill up the collector bin in a hurry!

[Craig Eick]

Alex
Good afternoon. Thank you for the reply. Sounds like you went through the exact process that I find myself in. Based on my current pricing the Hammer and 41C are very close. I just have to decide if i am going to make the jump to the 41E. I will do a little more research and then decide

Thanks again for taking time to give me your thoughts, much appreciated.

Craig

[Craig Eick]

Terry
Good afternoon, I hope you are well. Thank you for taking time to give me your thoughts. I have no doubt the the 41C will probably meet my needs most of the time. I am going to call SCM and see if i can get some additional information The longer beds, different fence, digital readout are of interest to me; however, not sure how necessary for the added cost. There appears to be about 160# difference in weight. i assume part of this is due to the longer tables. I will see what SCM has to say about that as well.

Thanks again for your feedback.

Craig

[Richard Link]

Craig,

You've already gotten a lot of great advice so I will keep mine short. I bit the bullet about 10+ years ago and purchase a Felder combination machine. I've been very happy with it and having a 16" jointer/planer is a luxury that you quickly forget is a luxury. I originally went this route because of limited space and the combo jointer/planer certainly does save space. I also switched from an 8" helical head jointer and the Dewalt planer. Changeovers aren't really much of a pain although I've toyed with the idea of getting a "baby" six inch jointer for small stuff someday (probably with a helical head) to spare changeovers. If I had the space it would have been ideal to just keep the other stuff since a lot of what you do can probably be handled with the smaller machines with ease. If space and jointer size aren't really your driving forces, separate machines are more convenient. I don't have any experience with Minimax personally but the Felder/Hammer stuff really is made to a standard higher than most modern stuff (at least 10 years ago!).

[Thomas Crawford]

I've had Hammer A3-41 for about 4 months. Its fantastic and I have no regrets.

I had (still need to sell) a Powermatic 15HH and no jointer. I was jointing stuff by hand with was fine for smaller things but I have some larger projects I want to do. I like touching things up, smoothing, and flattening small pieces, but I don't get a whole lot of joy taking the twist out of a 4' long wide board.

Because I already had the planer I did look quite extensively at getting a stand alone jointer in the 16" range. New was more expensive than a combo unit. I had one chance at a used old iron behemoth but I really had no way to transport a 1500lb machine and get it safely down my sidewalk and into the shop. Also I had refurbished the 15HH myself and while I learned a lot it's really not how I want to spend my time.

I'm a hobbiest with 12-15 years left in the workplace so buying new high end tools is worth it for me to be able to have my limited shop time actually be about building things and not working on the machines.

[Craig Eick]

Richard
Good afternoon. Thank you for the guidance. One of the reasons i was considering the combo was cost and the ability to get a 16" jointer and planer. Plan B was to get a 20" planer and a 12" jointer. If i went with the minimax 41E the pricing between the combination unit and Plan B get closer. If i was to go with the 41C or the Hammer A3-41 the cost difference gets a lot wider. Any thoughts on a 12" joiner vs 16" jointer. What i have learned in my brief experience in woodworking is buy as much as you can, within reason.

Thanks again for your guidance.

Craig

[Richard Link]

Certainly the "more is better" concept always applies. However, I think that a 12" jointer and a 20" planer would be hard to beat but very expensive. Honestly, I can't really recall many situations when I used the entire 16" of my jointer or just didn't have enough room on my 16" planer. Alas, with modern trees as they are this scale of boards just doesn't come up that often. So if option A is a 12" high quality jointer and a 20" high quality planer and option B is a high quality 16" combo machine....for similar money (which seems hard to imagine). If space is not really limiting I would go with option A. However, in most cases Option B will be cheaper and more space friendly and I doubt very much that you will miss the extra width. For the record, I do not find myself pining over a bigger jointer or planer at all....maybe pining mostly after more space. With the Austrian machines, the changeover step takes just a min or so - not a problem.

Rick

[Craig Eick]

Richard
Good afternoon. Thank you for the feedback. Amen to the desire for more space. Eventually i will have a larger shop and i could make my current set up work for two machines. However, it comes down to cost as I would like to have more capacity for the jointer and planer. You are correct in that the two machines that i would consider are more expensive, ~30% assuming no discounts, than the Minimax 41E. Just out of curiosity what Felder Unit did you purchase.

Thanks again Richard

Craig

[Richard Link]

Felder cf 741 combination machine. Photo is not my shop but it's the same machine.

https://www.rrwoodworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/DSCN1346.jpg
R

[Brian Holcombe]

IMO, The Elite S is worth the additional expense over the Elite or Classic models.

[Rod Wolfy]

I've had a 6" jointer, lunchbox planer, Felder 12" combo (had to sell as downsized house), Jet 12"J/P (which I recently sold) and my Hammer A3-41 is hitting the USA at the end of the month, after a 9 month wait. I ordered an extra guard ($25), so that I can chop one in half. I had straight blades on the Felder and then got the spiral head on the Jet. I felt that I had better cuts, so I went with it on the 16" Hammer. If you can afford the extra money, I would go with the extra 4" of jointer space!

[Craig Eick]

Jim
Good afternoon. Not sure how to send a PM; therefore, I am sending this email. I am not sure if it attaches to the thread or gets to you individually.

Thank you for your feedback as well as all of the others. It has been very helpful. I was heading, and may still be, down the road with the Xylent head. The more research i did and and the more folks i have heard from it seems like a lot of folks prefer the Tersa Knives over the Xylent head which was interesting to me. Apparently the knives are easier to change and they leave a better finish. I suppose you could have a couple of sets depending on the wood you were working with. The only down side i have heard is that the knives are louder. Just wanted to check with you and see if I am understanding correctly. I was hopeful there would be more of a cost difference between the two. Based on my current pricing it only appears to be ~ 280 - 380 difference for an all in cost. The 100 difference is dependent on final freight/delivery. Prior I am wondering if i should go with Tersa knives even though the cost difference is not what i had hoped.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

Best

Craig

[Jim Becker]

Craig, private messages, photos and the Classifieds are accessible by Contributors. Click on the "Donate" link up above to set yourself up as a Contributor for as little as $6 a year.

[Craig Eick]

Jim
Good evening. Thank you. I was wondering about that when i could not find the PM drop down etc.

Thank you

Craig

[Jim Becker]

J/Ps are some of the loudest machines in the shop and that's amplified by the (required) dust collection. Yes, spiral/helical heads are a little quieter because of their design differences on how they engage the material. As to Tersa...I'm 110% happy with them. Easy to change; easy to adjust slightly if there's a nick; multiple metal formulas available, etc.

[Michael Rector]

So I decided to get out of wood working about 4 years ago and sold my A3-31 at that point.

I’m now getting back in :) and I’m going back and forth between the A3-31 and the FS30C.

A3 pros:

Spiral head (more longevity, quieter)

Don’t need to remove the fence or guard to convert from J -> P -> J

Both tables come up at once

FS30 pros:

Sharp Tersa blades will give a better finish than the spiral, and easy to swap so you can have a set of working blades and a set of finishing ones

Dust collection is on the same side. Going from J->P on the A3 is super annoying for having to relocate the dust hose.

Honestly I think it comes down to what color you want in your shop, as they both have good reasons to swing one way or another.

[Alex LaZella]

just as an aside, you do not need to remove the fence on the SCM machines to convert between jointer and planer either, just pull the fence forward and it clears the other table. I like the idea of the tables moving together on a smaller machine but I am quite happy to only move one side of the 16" machine at a time.

either machine will indeed make you happy. good luck

[Michael Rector]

just as an aside, you do not need to remove the fence on the SCM machines to convert between jointer and planer either, just pull the fence forward and it clears the other table. I like the idea of the tables moving together on a smaller machine but I am quite happy to only move one side of the 16" machine at a time.

either machine will indeed make you happy. good luck

That’s awesome to know! Everything I’ve watched on the FS series shows them taking the guide and fence off. That pushes me over to minimax.

[Erik Loza]

I’ve sold LOTS of both brand mentioned here and will add 2-cents for the OP’s research:

-Both brands are high quality with proven track records.
-I’m a big fan of Tersa heads (Felder offers Tersa heads on the larger J/P’s) and agree that they “can” give better finish results on tricky woods but that being said, based on owner feedback, I think spiral (your choice of brand) is what most weekend woodworkers are actually looking for as far as owner/user experience in their new machine. It’s the combination of longevity + carbide. Tersa is only loud when the knives get dull. Otherwise, about the same noise level as spirals. I talk to customers all the time who are still on their original set of spiral inserts years after receiving their machines. I was never able to say that about Tersa.
-On Felder/Hammer machines, getting the right-angle dust elbow mitigates any issues with the change of snorkel direction during the switchover.
-Whichever machine you go with, I would make sure to budget for a Euro-style jointer guard if it does not come with it as OEM.

All this being said, two things we (Felder) offer that nobody else does are an ecosystem of useful add-ons like dial indicators, mobility kits, extension tables, etc. and also the fact that if you ever need help or support after the sale, you can pick up the phone and talk to real human being technician whose M-F/8-5 job it is to deal with nothing but standard machines like a J/P. In my mind, there is value in those things beyond just the actual machine cost. OP, best of luck in your research.

Erik