Convert Jointer Guard from European bridge style to American Porkchop Style

[Sean Moore]

Has anybody ever converted their european style jointer guard to an american style? I recently upgraded to a Robland NX410 Pro and have a 16" jointer with the european bridge guard, and I absolutely hate it compared to the american porkchop guard. I had the same issues with my previous Jet 12" jointer/Planer. I find it annoying to use and you cant use a push stick without lifting it up and over the guard.

Id love to convert it to an american style porkchop guard but have no idea how. Would love some insight if anybody has done this before!
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[johnny means]

A porkchop guard on a 16" jointer leaves an awful lot of exposed cutter out in the open air after the cut. I've done the opposite change on an SCMI before. The guard could never be tensioned to work adequately over the full range of the cutter width. I had to adjust the tension whenever I went to either extreme on the width. Also, I'm not sure you should ever be pushing down on the material as you cross from infeed to outfeed tables.

[stevo wis]

Has anybody ever converted their european style jointer guard to an american style? I recently upgraded to a Robland NX410 Pro and have a 16" jointer with the european bridge guard, and I absolutely hate it compared to the american porkchop guard. I had the same issues with my previous Jet 12" jointer/Planer. I find it annoying to use and you cant use a push stick without lifting it up and over the guard.

Id love to convert it to an american style porkchop guard but have no idea how. Would love some insight if anybody has done this before!
455531


Sean,

The technical school here switched out their guard to one that looks like the picture you posted but it retracted from right to left as the wood passed over the blades. It had a wedge shape on the right side so that a board would push it left when cutting. It worked really well but the instructor said it cost several hundred dollars. It seems like maybe what is pictured could be modified like that. Sorry i dont remember the brand but I am pretty sure it is european.
Steve

[roger wiegand]

If anyone is doing this and would like to sell the Euro style guard for a SCM/MiniMax 16" J/P I'd love to ditch the enormous porkchop. It's always in my way. Send a PM.

[Curt Harms]

Has anybody ever converted their european style jointer guard to an american style? I recently upgraded to a Robland NX410 Pro and have a 16" jointer with the european bridge guard, and I absolutely hate it compared to the american porkchop guard. I had the same issues with my previous Jet 12" jointer/Planer. I find it annoying to use and you cant use a push stick without lifting it up and over the guard.

Id love to convert it to an american style porkchop guard but have no idea how. Would love some insight if anybody has done this before!
455531

I have a Jet JJP-12. I just leave a gap maybe 1/2" between the guard and fence. I use a push shoe that's thin enough to fit in that gap. I had a 6" jointer previously with the 'pork chop' style guard. I found it fine for materials less than 1/2 the width of the jointer. I found 5"+ material on a 6" jointer hard to push the guard aside. As far as holding work down using the Euro guard I quickly learned to bridge the guard with my fingers. Also once I learned when flattening stock to apply 90% of the down pressure on the outfeed side the bridge guard became less of an issue. Different strokes for different folks.

[William Hodge]

To use a European type guard, use push pads.This allows you to push down on the wood on the outfeed table.

Start the wood in to the cutter, face 12". Reach over the guard, and push the wood down on the outfeed table, which is the reference surface. Bearing on the infeed table with a push stick while trying to reference the outfeed table and get flat wood is a technique I never understood. I know people do it, people do a lot of stuff I don't understand.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Sean,

The technical school here switched out their guard to one that looks like the picture you posted but it retracted from right to left as the wood passed over the blades. It had a wedge shape on the right side so that a board would push it left when cutting. It worked really well but the instructor said it cost several hundred dollars. It seems like maybe what is pictured could be modified like that. Sorry i dont remember the brand but I am pretty sure it is european.
Steve

Suvamatic?: https://www.scosarg.com/suvamatic-planer-guard-protection

[Dan Friedrichs]

Maybe a change in technique might let you appreciate the euro guard better? I have one and never use a push stick or push blocks. A push stick, in particular, seems like a bad idea since you can't concentrate pressure on the outfeed side. Using just your hands, your hand can naturally "ride" up over top of the guard as you move pressure from the infeed to the outfeed.

[Jim Becker]

When I went to a wide jointer, I was so happy to be able to move to a bridge guard from the porkchop. What many folks struggle with is that using a bridge guard brings a different technique relative to one's hands while face jointing material that passes under the guard. Once you get that down and also start to enjoy the ability to pull a board back over the guard smoothly without damage, things get very nice.

I honestly do not recall anyone going in the direction you ask about, although I could certainly have missed it.

[Tom Bain]

Interestingly enough, Sam Blasco surprisingly prefers the American style. See video link below:

https://youtu.be/Ca8ljZEoeuw

Neither one is perfect.

[glenn bradley]

It is a change in technique to be sure. There are variations of the pork chop.

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This is at Sam Maloof's shop in SoCal.

[Paul F Franklin]

It is a change in technique to be sure. There are variations of the pork chop.

455537

This is at Sam Maloof's shop in SoCal.

Isn't there also a Euro style guard made of segments (along the lines of the pork chop you show) so the segments drop down in front when the guard is retracted for edge jointing thick stock, rather than sticking out into the walking path? That's pretty much my only complaint with the euro style guard.

[Sean Moore]

Ive never enjoyed using the euro guard. I feel like I always get a bit of snipe at the beginning of a board as my hand rides over the guard and there is a subtle change in pressure. Also, face jointing wide boards with a euro guard can be quite cumbersome.

[glenn bradley]

Isn't there also a Euro style guard made of segments (along the lines of the pork chop you show) so the segments drop down in front when the guard is retracted for edge jointing thick stock, rather than sticking out into the walking path? That's pretty much my only complaint with the euro style guard.

I have seen that but don’t recall the brand.

[Kevin Jenness]

Paul F Franklin;3112308]Isn't there also a Euro style guard made of segments (along the lines of the pork chop you show) so the segments drop down in front when the guard is retracted for edge jointing thick stock, rather than sticking out into the walking path?[/I]

Like this? https://www.scosarg.com/cps-txf650-surface-planer-guard

[Alan Lightstone]

Isn't there also a Euro style guard made of segments (along the lines of the pork chop you show) so the segments drop down in front when the guard is retracted for edge jointing thick stock, rather than sticking out into the walking path? That's pretty much my only complaint with the euro style guard.

My Felder jointer has that.

[Jim Becker]

Ive never enjoyed using the euro guard. I feel like I always get a bit of snipe at the beginning of a board as my hand rides over the guard and there is a subtle change in pressure. Also, face jointing wide boards with a euro guard can be quite cumbersome.

You can minimize this by keeping the heel of your hand on the board as your fingers span over the guard. Once the fingers are in contact, you can maintain the same relative grip on the board from there. I have not had any snipe issues when face jointing since I got that technique down. That said, if you truly don't like the Euro/bridge guard, I hope you can find a solution that takes care of the safety and is workable for you.

[stevo wis]

Dan, that looks like it. Price around 1500 plus is a lot though.
thanks,
Stevo

[Andrew Hughes]

I find the pork chop guards to be in the way on a jointer.
Sure glad I don't have yo keep it on my jointer. Kinda reminds me of wearing a mask for no good reason.

[William Hodge]

Interestingly enough, Sam Blasco surprisingly prefers the American style. See video link below:

https://youtu.be/Ca8ljZEoeuw

Neither one is perfect.


I like the teaser where Sam Blasco pushes the wood with his thumb on the tail end of the board. It's kind of like watching a lion tamer show, where you hope that the guy in the cage with the lions doesn't get something bitten off. On the other hand, when it happens, it sure is exciting.

[Kevin Jenness]

Has anybody ever converted their european style jointer guard to an american style? I recently upgraded to a Robland NX410 Pro and have a 16" jointer with the european bridge guard, and I absolutely hate it compared to the american porkchop guard. I had the same issues with my previous Jet 12" jointer/Planer. I find it annoying to use and you cant use a push stick without lifting it up and over the guard.

Id love to convert it to an american style porkchop guard but have no idea how. Would love some insight if anybody has done this before!
455531

Have you tried sourcing a replacement from MiniMax? Failing that, keep an eye on Ebay- even with a smaller guard you could use the guts and fabricate a proper size paddle of plywood.

When the crappy plastic guard on my 16" jointer broke I replaced it with a piece of 3/4" ply, drilled out underneath for lightness and fitted with a p-lam wear strip. The return mechanism is a torsion spring with ends slotted into the guard and a bushed capscrew. I have seen a couple of old American jointers fitted with a similar ply guard connected to a sash weight with a cable and pulley instead of a spring. Given all the old jointers in service this cat must have been skinned more than a few times. If the owwm site is up you might inquire there.

It's funny how a request like this draws so many posts trying to persuade the op to love his euro guard. I like them, but they are not for everyone and after a certain point it is hard to change. At my old shop we had a Euroguard on a 16" Griggio and I can't count the # of times I stepped up to it to find the bar retracted after a certain person faced a wide board. He was used to pushing the stock all the way through a porkchop guard and was not going to change his approach just because the guard was different. In that case everyone would be safer with a porkchop guard. An unused guard is worthless, as proven by all the tablesaws whose guards were stripped and discarded at the first blade change.

[Patrick Kane]

OP, im afraid anything you go to do will require custom mounting and fabrication. I highly doubt there is an off-the-shelf plug and play solution for your machine. Like someone else mentioned, the Suvamatic appears to be fantastic. Ive only watched them used in videos, but also very pricey. You might want to search other forums for a thread on the segmented porkchop guard. I definitely remember finding a thread where a guy had a sketchup model and walked people through how to make the segmented fold down porkchop guard that is seen on the Sam Maloof zefam jointer. Martin used a guard like that in the late 80s, i believe. From what you describe--and i agree with your opinion wholeheartedly--i think you would enjoy the segmented pork chop more than the expensive suvamatic.

I have a 500mm machine and it has a homemade euro bridge guard. Its ok. Its safe, and thats what matters, but i would prefer to use pushblocks and ram the material through the machine with constant connection and force. There is always a slight pause as i reposition my hands/fingers/pushblock over the guard.

And just like that, i saved you the hassle of finding it. It was actually a thread on Sawmill, of course.

SawDust : Planer Jointer Guard Swing7 (online.fr) (http://sawdust.online.fr/Project/Guard_PlanerJointer/en_Swing7.php)

[Brian Holcombe]

I would put a Suva on mine but I can’t see how it would attach to a j/p without sticking out an additional. 4-5”.

Does anyone know where to purchase a Zefam style guard? I can make one, if need be, I just prefer not to.

[Joe Calhoon]

Brian
Panhans sells those folding yellow guards like Martin has for standard on their jointers.
http://www.panhans.co.uk/Amtec%20New%20online.pdf

[Joe Calhoon]

Another source
http://www.gl-trade.de/.cm4all/uproc.php/0/Catalogue%20GL-trade%20english%202018.pdf?cdp=a&_=1680adf02ac

[Joe Hollis]

When I went to a wide jointer, I was so happy to be able to move to a bridge guard from the porkchop. What many folks struggle with is that using a bridge guard brings a different technique relative to one's hands while face jointing material that passes under the guard. Once you get that down and also start to enjoy the ability to pull a board back over the guard smoothly without damage, things get very nice.

I honestly do not recall anyone going in the direction you ask about, although I could certainly have missed it.

I have to say that I haven't adapted fully to the guard on my Felder AD741. Of course, it also helps if you don't forget to collapse the segmented guard so the unused sections don't stick out at just about the right height to catch you where it hurts the most... :eek:

[Patrick Kane]

Well look at, Joe. This guy pulls goodies out of left field all the time. I still havent found a copy of that german orange book, btw. I just emailed both sources about the segmented porkchop. I am very interested in how much they are. If its around a grand, i think ill buy it.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thank you, Joe! Much appreciated. I used one of these on Chris Hall’s Martin jointer, it was great!

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Sean, I'm with you, I hate the euro guard. It's the opposite of safe, anything that makes you reposition your hands above a jointer head is just not a good design. My favorite feature is how much cutter head you can see as it's floating over your stock, in my opinion, it is just a horrible design. I honestly feel more comfortable with it completely removed. I have the Felder folding model, looks like the Pahans that Joe C posted. At least it folds so it is only sticking out about 8" in the way when you are edge jointing.

[Patrick Kane]

Sean, I'm with you, I hate the euro guard. It's the opposite of safe, anything that makes you reposition your hands above a jointer head is just not a good design. My favorite feature is how much cutter head you can see as it's floating over your stock, in my opinion, it is just a horrible design. I honestly feel more comfortable with it completely removed. I have the Felder folding model, looks like the Pahans that Joe C posted. At least it folds so it is only sticking out about 8" in the way when you are edge jointing.


I agree, there seems like something is amiss on face jointing with a euro guard. I will say i like the design a lot for edge jointing. With it flat to the tables and 1/16-1/8" farther from the fence than the thickness of your material, it really makes the operation as safe as it can be. A porkchop or similar will swing out just a bit more exposing enough of the cutterhead to be slightly more dangerous. I am finally happy that i have a machine that doesnt require me to remove the guard routinely. Those are the guards/machines i dislike the most.

[Joe Calhoon]

Thank you, Joe! Much appreciated. I used one of these on Chris Hall’s Martin jointer, it was great!

Those work well Brian. I had a chance to use one on a Jointer in a shop were setting up a window machine. It was a busy shop and looked like it held up well. Nice that it doesn’t stick out. That is the one downside to the Suva but you get used to it. The big plus to the Suva is it adjusts to any position quickly. My old SCM jointer had a pork chop guard that worked pretty well but after using the Suva overhead for facing I prefer facing in that mode.
When we set up the shop in Bhutan they had a Griggio jointer with the standard euro bridge guard. I did not care for that one mainly because you had to adjust it every time the fence was moved. And it sticked out a lot.

455641
I even use the Suva when power feed facing. With my reduced work load now I usually just hand face with the overhead guard and have a couple sizes of push blocks near to use when needed.
455642
Suva can also be used for facing using a hooked push block and applying pressure at the side. This leaves a bit of the cutter open with wide boards before the start of cut. This is where the folding pork chop guard would be better. Bottom line is developing good safety habits no matter what guard you use.
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[Brian Holcombe]

I agree, good habits trump any guarding especially on a jointer where exposure to the blades is impossible to avoid.

I have students, so a fast retracting guard is helpful for after they make they cut and need to reposition the board.

[Dave Sabo]

Love when an O.P. asks a question never to return.

Being that he has a Robland, and to my knowledge, they don't support a pork chop guard - he's goin to have a difficult time retrofitting one. Even if he want to bore the cast iron deck, I think the adjustments for the sliding ways will be in the way.

[Brian Holcombe]

Joe,

The german company responded today and now I have one on order. Costs about $610 incl shipping.

Thanks again!

Brian

[Bernie May]

Brian can you give us specifics of what you bought and from what company?

[Robert Mayer]

I prefer more of a Filet Mignon type guard

[Warren Lake]

Robert there is more freedom to work the machine and the material with no guard. The guard systems are flawed in different ways in design, maybe flawed the wrong word, its not an easy design for what it needs to do for industry.

People have been hurt still that use guards and some dont set them up right. If you lift your hand over the cutters for a euro guard why can you not do that with no guard. Just lift your hand up over to the outfeed. That was how we were taught but likely had pork chop guy at the time, its useless at the end of cut anyway. You cant drop on with either of them. Not really an accurate statement you can pull it out of the way to drop on but then you still have no guard at that point.

Wood over the knives is a guard. Someone needs to put time into a serious redesign for people who want to get the best out of machining, maybe there isnt one.

[Andrew Hughes]

I agree with Warren. Couldn’t have said it better

[Brian Holcombe]

Bernie,

I purchased the guard we have been discussing.

I also agree with Warren but given that I have students, I'd have a lot of explaining to do about taking the guard off if anything happened, so I'd rather just have a good guard.

[Patrick Kane]

Joe,

The german company responded today and now I have one on order. Costs about $610 incl shipping.

Thanks again!

Brian

Ahh you beat me to it! I received quotes back last night, and was about to update everyone. Insanely low price for what i imagine to be the peak jointer guard design. $553 for the 510mm guard and $78 in shipping to the States.

I was just about to ask for clarification on what the price includes. Did you clarify that already? Does it include the spring mechanism etc? Im trying to determine what fabrication is needed on my end to mount the guard to my machine and ensure it operates correctly. If its just a matter of making a mount and bolting it to the machine, then im all over this for $631

[Brian Holcombe]

Ahh you beat me to it! I received quotes back last night, and was about to update everyone. Insanely low price for what i imagine to be the peak jointer guard design. $553 for the 510mm guard and $78 in shipping to the States.

I was just about to ask for clarification on what the price includes. Did you clarify that already? Does it include the spring mechanism etc? Im trying to determine what fabrication is needed on my end to mount the guard to my machine and ensure it operates correctly. If its just a matter of making a mount and bolting it to the machine, then im all over this for $631

I assume just the guard, but I'm not sure. I'm also wondering about the fabrication but whatever it takes I will do.

[Patrick Kane]

I assume just the guard, but I'm not sure. I'm also wondering about the fabrication but whatever it takes I will do.

Alright, please post about it once you receive it. You are going to be my guinea pig, because i know you posses 25x the metal fab skills i do.

Joe, once again, thank you for the heads up on the supplier.

[roger wiegand]

I got really excited about the segmented guard that flops over the edge of the table-- then I priced one. $825 plus shipping from the UK. Yikes! I was ready to go several hundred, but up at that range the Suva is only another factor of 2.5 and looks really slick :D. I may continue to be irritated by my oversize pork chop for a while.

[Patrick Kane]

Brian, did you receive the guard? Curious how you fit it to your machine and how it operates in person.

[Alan Lightstone]

Isn't there also a Euro style guard made of segments (along the lines of the pork chop you show) so the segments drop down in front when the guard is retracted for edge jointing thick stock, rather than sticking out into the walking path? That's pretty much my only complaint with the euro style guard.

My Felder has one, but it still sticks out a little. But better than all the way.

[John Gornall]

Seldom any operating instructions with machines. I try to understand why the machine design is the way it is. The Euroguard on my hammer is adjusted down close to the workpiece and is spring loaded downwards. So I assumed I was to keep pressure on the workpiece as my hand crossed the guard by pushing the guard against the wood. Works for me.

[John Gornall]

Edge jointing a board

There was a mention about pushing a board thru a jointer with your thumb. This is how I was taught by the old German cabinetmaker that I worked under those many years ago. You left hand holds the board against the fence with finger pressure on the face of the board and your thumb on top of the board holds the board down against the outfeed table. Your right hand is inverted with palm facing away and fingers on top edge of board with thumb at top corner pushing the board. I do this automatically every time.

Not for face jointing.

[Andy D Jones]

I vastly prefer the Euro guard on my A3-41 to any porkchop guard, particularly for face jointing.

My great uncle lost three fingers face jointing a board with a porkchop guard, when the cutterhead shattered the workpiece under his hand, sending that hand plunging into the cutter head.

Yes, he was using a poor practice, but a Euro guard would have prevented that poor practice (and repeatedly forced him to become comfortable with the correct practice.)

It is easy to forget where your trailing hand is when you are focusing on applying steady pressure with your leading hand over the outfeed table. A euro guard will safely remind you.

A guard that covers the surface of the workpiece over the cutter head (like a Euro guard) will prevent the poor practice that can lead to that kind of accident.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[andrew whicker]

This rough and tumble, but extremely talented woodworker I worked with for a few days pulled his 8/4 or 6/4 lumber back towards him along the jointer table after jointing it (no guard). In other words, he pulled the piece (tilted obviously so only the end touched) along both beds and across the cutter. Seemed to work out just fine and took a lot less effort to move lumber.

The guy built pieces for a furniture company that was overloaded. They used CNC's etc. This guy did it all with basic equipment. Point being, he knew his stuff and this is what he did. Food for thought.

[Mel Fulks]

Andrew, Used to be a common practice, but when OSHA came in it was deemed to be too much trouble, since it could not be left off. Was still
used where only a couple guys ever used the jointer.

[William Hodge]

This rough and tumble, but extremely talented woodworker I worked with for a few days pulled his 8/4 or 6/4 lumber back towards him along the jointer table after jointing it (no guard). In other words, he pulled the piece (tilted obviously so only the end touched) along both beds and across the cutter. Seemed to work out just fine and took a lot less effort to move lumber.

The guy built pieces for a furniture company that was overloaded. They used CNC's etc. This guy did it all with basic equipment. Point being, he knew his stuff and this is what he did. Food for thought.


This is climb cutting power return on a roughing jointer. For rough edge jointing big wood (8/4 x 10" x 8') prior to rough ripping, the cutter head brings the wood back for a second pass. Knife and head type will determine feed rate. I have a 16" jointer with a two knife clamshell head. There is launch potential. A technique best avoided until you have been using the same jointer for 30 years.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I vastly prefer the Euro guard on my A3-41 to any porkchop guard, particularly for face jointing.

My great uncle lost three fingers face jointing a board with a porkchop guard, when the cutterhead shattered the workpiece under his hand, sending that hand plunging into the cutter head.

Yes, he was using a poor practice, but a Euro guard would have prevented that poor practice (and repeatedly forced him to become comfortable with the correct practice.)

It is easy to forget where your trailing hand is when you are focusing on applying steady pressure with your leading hand over the outfeed table. A euro guard will safely remind you.

A guard that covers the surface of the workpiece over the cutter head (like a Euro guard) will prevent the poor practice that can lead to that kind of accident.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

No the euro guard will not keep your hand from falling into the knife in such an accident because the guard being high enough to ride over he stock leave a gaping void of exposed cutterhead. If your hand was pushing straight down, maybe but it's not. You are pushing forward and down. There is always some cutter exposed between the operator and stock because of this too.

[Warren Lake]

This is an interesting set up.

457512

Dragging back done it more times than I can remember. Its likely mostly to longer stuff. There is no launch least not my high speed steel knife stuff and cut depth. The only neg that ive felt is wondering if it increases dulling the knives. Some really long stuff likely not at the jointer but far down the board using care, like long stuff on a table saw.

We learned on pork chops and were told lift your hand over the knife area. Really the wood over the knives is the guard but that changes with the wood, is the wood 10 feet long or is it short? Here is a thing id never do. A simple push device would be safe. Ive had to do enough quantity stuff in the past and this would be slow and annoying and left hand comes up and no down pressure on the material. To me this is what a teacher would teach you compared to the old guys i knew that were teachers but apprenticed and on machines all their lives first then teaching in their retirement years.



457513

[Andy D Jones]

No the euro guard will not keep your hand from falling into the knife in such an accident because the guard being high enough to ride over he stock leave a gaping void of exposed cutterhead. If your hand was pushing straight down, maybe but it's not. You are pushing forward and down. There is always some cutter exposed between the operator and stock because of this too.

A Euro guard helps train and remind the user to avoid the cutter head as the guard is used, by blocking the user from pressing down on the stock while their hand passes near the cutter head when face jointing.

A pork chop guard does not do that.

The Euro guards I have seen and used are also significantly wider (i.e. longer in the direction of cut) than the exposed cutter head between the tables, further helping to keep fingers safely away from the cutter head.

Also, the thicker the stock being face jointed, the less likely it is to completely shatter over the cutter head, which means that the bigger the potential gap between table and Euro guard, the less likely the gap is to occur.

The more likely stock to shatter completely is relatively thin, which leaves a much narrower gap between a (properly adjusted) Euro guard and table, through which the hand might contact the cutter head under the Euro guard, in the event of shattering.

Do you really want to compare the gaping void (your words) between Euro guard and table when surface jointing and the stock shatters, with that of a pork chop that has swung completely out of the way?

But in the end, no guard is perfect, not even the one between our ears, though both work best in tandem.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Warren Lake]

40 years jointing material never had a board "shatter" you mention it repeatedly. At one point I jointed so much rough red oak that my palms were like a roofers knuckles. Any roofers will get that. I didn't get slivers anymore as they could not puncture me.

Just because you have no guard at all doesn't mean you cant lift your hand anyway. That was how we were taught. I never bought a board in my life that would have so much of a defect that it would shatter.

[Brian Holcombe]

I agree with Warren, my father taught me when I was very young that I was to rely upon good procedure, planning and intuition and not so called guards. A jointer guard doesn’t do much in the best case scenario and worst case they do nothing at all.

One thing he instilled in me that I feel is very important is to avoid trying to ‘save’ a part being eaten by machinery. Many people have the instinct to grab a part that is coming to pieces, I feel one is better off to kill the machine and either hold firm or retract extremities depending on what’s going down.

My father’s basic teachings have saved me from injury at times. Not sure different guarding would have resolved any of those scenarios.

This was drilled into me when I started racing cars, the older folks at the track that had a lot of experience showed me how to properly shut down if things went awry. I only had to use that shut down procedure one time, but when that time came I coasted to a safe stop, without that knowledge perhaps my family would have gotten a notification. I’ve seen people wreck who did not shut down properly. Will it save you every time? Probably not, but better with that muscle memory than without.

[Thomas Crawford]

I just got my A3-41 a few months ago. Before that I had an old 6" that I pretty much never used. I've only used it with push blocks (the cheap ones with foam on the bottom). I don't feel comfortable at all doing it bare handed. Any small piece i use hand tools. That picture Warren posted of the small piece is below what I would stick on the 16". Am I too cautious? I'm more worried about an injury on that big cutterhead than anything else in my shop.

Just to double check my technique: I push through the front of the cut and then get my second hand on the top on the outfeed side and then hand over hand. My results are fine but wondering if that is actually the right way to do it.

[Kevin Jenness]

I had a (fortunately) minor cut on one finger from the jointer a couple of years ago that got my attention. Since then I almost always use push blocks like these https://www.homedepot.com/p/QEP-4-in-x-9-5-in-Molded-Rubber-Grout-Float-with-Non-Stick-Gum-Rubber-10060/310829229 when facing. Even then, it is safest to lift the blocks when passing over the cutterhead.

I have worn gloves in the shop for some time due to nerve damage that leaves my hands uncomfortably cold in nearly all weather, but recently I started use them with the fingers cut off off except when handling material away from rotating machinery. My workmate lost the tip of one finger when a trailing glove pulled it into the jointer. (He bought a rather pricy mountain bike with the workmen's comp settlement, which he christened "Just the tip".

[Patrick Kane]

I agree with Warren, my father taught me when I was very young that I was to rely upon good procedure, planning and intuition and not so called guards. A jointer guard doesn’t do much in the best case scenario and worst case they do nothing at all.

One thing he instilled in me that I feel is very important is to avoid trying to ‘save’ a part being eaten by machinery. Many people have the instinct to grab a part that is coming to pieces, I feel one is better off to kill the machine and either hold firm or retract extremities depending on what’s going down.

My father’s basic teachings have saved me from injury at times. Not sure different guarding would have resolved any of those scenarios.

This was drilled into me when I started racing cars, the older folks at the track that had a lot of experience showed me how to properly shut down if things went awry. I only had to use that shut down procedure one time, but when that time came I coasted to a safe stop, without that knowledge perhaps my family would have gotten a notification. I’ve seen people wreck who did not shut down properly. Will it save you every time? Probably not, but better with that muscle memory than without.

Im verging on being annoying--i know--but did you receive the guard?

[Brian Holcombe]

Im verging on being annoying--i know--but did you receive the guard?

Not yet, it supposed to take a while. It took me four weeks to get a set of wrenches from Germany that were in stock so I guess it just takes a while when ordering from Germany at the moment.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

A Euro guard helps train and remind the user to avoid the cutter head as the guard is used, by blocking the user from pressing down on the stock while their hand passes near the cutter head when face jointing.

A pork chop guard does not do that.

The Euro guards I have seen and used are also significantly wider (i.e. longer in the direction of cut) than the exposed cutter head between the tables, further helping to keep fingers safely away from the cutter head.

Also, the thicker the stock being face jointed, the less likely it is to completely shatter over the cutter head, which means that the bigger the potential gap between table and Euro guard, the less likely the gap is to occur.

The more likely stock to shatter completely is relatively thin, which leaves a much narrower gap between a (properly adjusted) Euro guard and table, through which the hand might contact the cutter head under the Euro guard, in the event of shattering.

Do you really want to compare the gaping void (your words) between Euro guard and table when surface jointing and the stock shatters, with that of a pork chop that has swung completely out of the way?

But in the end, no guard is perfect, not even the one between our ears, though both work best in tandem.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

Andy, you'll hopefully agree that if a user needs reminded to avoid the cutterhead, he shouldn't be running the machine. See my pics for the gaping void problem. My guard is nearly 4" wide. Thicker stock makes the gap much wider quickly, it's much bigger even with full 8/4 stock. This is just a 1 1/2" thick 2x6 because it was handy.

The bigger problem is that the proper technique for jointing is down pressure on outfeed table. By jumping over a euro guard, you loose consistent outfeed pressure, so the results are less consistent. A pork chop gets out of the way so your push sticks or whatever don't have to be repositioned. You may notice that my guard is really dusty from hanging on the wall, it just gets left off usually and a power feeder swings over to face joint if I'm doing much of it. If not using the power feeder, proper technique requires some sort of a push stick to move the stock through as the cut completes, you see one way that it can be done in the pic. Those grip pads might also work but I don't 100% trust them.

Another issue is that the dust collector moves air pretty much in the direction of the red arrow, and I can feel it tugging on my shirt as I push through. That big gap under the euro guard directs the air differently, it's not something I notice happening on the other jointer in my shop which is a porkchop machine.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/bdNRpSCQHPcnuZAn_W7Ge-uF3PDIG7ut3aupAXWRAhgdu0MbESXfTHOm7FgJop3pTcJcZYW5 jZ7yRxS5lcZ5o9eDIy8tABVAMbDT_wexbm-LuStJdW5Fr_zaO7snw9PSskXjuUOGW5BDlrc-SRnmraVSEVrOq-Xj-02yC-Px6gAVgJh1U2Gz1jidnoNSVFyPS_u5_aH06qBlqgf2HlZ48i6F b85jCw6CXVoZJASVPUMUKDBKQudEkApPTNKI8yclOIn4ZVsNuD oCkawANj9M8JNBMaYpBnZwiHrdcq0g4K9Q7KH2Fpl239idvyGU gjZClI-7BJ42QnYN64tx7tjsXXefLZvG2rTJJW4VDbikMNybwLCEx89u8 bRXQXSwHAD4KvqUCZ4UKD8n1G6f280KCVjldWMaQmw7e3Lylu_ 8-hHs-SVkwXmRZBSsmWIwFfYkBEpcpfjkYup9pk6hr5VuMX1I7iRgtvx 3CEpOWpefcVzIPCHlhFkP4zK2dwn0eaH7XGJ3_1LQjgWP3Qpd_ OeVM874RKSJgGYcScuqgLS1e4Ontg5JVs4HjEARZZ7NY2ejFnD rWVAvEZvdYiG7T0lnZhXvNW6zPxtwOgcBnUYRXA73o7RJei9yA mzJHXJVuyYJVdrFRG7jf8_oow5OhisqzxDAilM5A6KXpnEyPz-YowXEbWaX_J7sQUrRDkBAnNihXtcuwTcBH9vAWkGBQxfs4rGR= w1560-h725-no?authuser=0

[Warren Lake]

I cant label technique on a jointer any one way as it changes for different material and what is is. Pork chop usless if im dropping on long stock. Traction I get on a board different was well. There is a rubbermaid with a damp sponge that my hand often hits while im jointing. Ive done tons of heal of palm of hand on the trailing edge and when im smarter I use the one push device I like then if that same board was 12 feet long and traction was fine id be totally on the outfeed. There is not only push down but a balance of down an forward. You can be down on the outfeed and forward on the infeed not pushing down but I find it hard to sit here and say what I do as its more just it goes on its own from doing it lots. Off the machines for a while it comes back quickly. On them lots of hours it all just flows more natural. This is my fav when im being smart enough to use it trailing edge of the board. hand position on those paddle things or gripper things of no interest to me that is not a natural hand position to me. sand paper long since removed as I realized could leave grit remnants that would trash knives. Off cut of 8/4 hounduras mahog with many miles on it


457623

[Jaromir Svoboda]

I build this guard for my 16" jointer. I went to woodworking trade school in Czech Republic and guard like this was on every jointer in every wood shop.

[Patrick Kane]

I build this guard for my 16" jointer. I went to woodworking trade school in Czech Republic and guard like this was on every jointer in every wood shop.

Looks great. Do you have any detailed shots on how you made it?

[Jaromir Svoboda]

More pictures.

[Andy D Jones]

Andy, you'll hopefully agree that if a user needs reminded to avoid the cutterhead, he shouldn't be running the machine. See my pics for the gaping void problem. My guard is nearly 4" wide. Thicker stock makes the gap much wider quickly, it's much bigger even with full 8/4 stock. This is just a 1 1/2" thick 2x6 because it was handy.

The bigger problem is that the proper technique for jointing is down pressure on outfeed table. By jumping over a euro guard, you loose consistent outfeed pressure, so the results are less consistent. A pork chop gets out of the way so your push sticks or whatever don't have to be repositioned. You may notice that my guard is really dusty from hanging on the wall, it just gets left off usually and a power feeder swings over to face joint if I'm doing much of it. If not using the power feeder, proper technique requires some sort of a push stick to move the stock through as the cut completes, you see one way that it can be done in the pic. Those grip pads might also work but I don't 100% trust them.

Another issue is that the dust collector moves air pretty much in the direction of the red arrow, and I can feel it tugging on my shirt as I push through. That big gap under the euro guard directs the air differently, it's not something I notice happening on the other jointer in my shop which is a porkchop machine.



Steve,

I can't see your pix.

We can add not wearing loose clothing while operating machinery to the list.
That's what my canvas shop apron is for.

If I'm face jointing thick stock, I adjust the fence to suit the width of that stock, minimizing any exposure of the cutterhead through the gap between guard and table. Here is where I wish I had a couple of shorter Euro guards for my Hammer that didn't stick out so far (they are not segmented/hinged like the more expensive lines.) Has anybody purchased a second Hammer guard bar, and cut it into 2 shorter (1/3 & 2/3 length) pieces? I've seen people fashion shorter, wooden guards for them.

Jim Becker described the proper heel and finger-tip method of transferring the hand safely over the Euro guard from infeed to outfeed table during face-jointing, while maintaining steady pressure and feed. If your hands are not big enough for that, then I can see where it would be a problem. But for me, I am much more comfortable with a Euro guard.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Mike Kees]

I was going to build a segmented guard like the one above until I tried out a euro style guard. I welded up a post assembly and made two different guards to slide in from 1/2'' thick plastic irrigation pipe (12'' diameter). this gave my guards the convex shape to go over the cutter head. Using it is straight forward ,the biggest advantage is the cutters are always covered when face jointing as well as the tactile clue as to exactly where the cutter is. My jointer is 16" wide ,and at that width a porkchop style guard is too big and awkward for me.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Steve,

I can't see your pix.

We can add not wearing loose clothing while operating machinery to the list.
That's what my canvas shop apron is for.

If I'm face jointing thick stock, I adjust the fence to suit the width of that stock, minimizing any exposure of the cutterhead through the gap between guard and table. Here is where I wish I had a couple of shorter Euro guards for my Hammer that didn't stick out so far (they are not segmented/hinged like the more expensive lines.) Has anybody purchased a second Hammer guard bar, and cut it into 2 shorter (1/3 & 2/3 length) pieces? I've seen people fashion shorter, wooden guards for them.

Jim Becker described the proper heel and finger-tip method of transferring the hand safely over the Euro guard from infeed to outfeed table during face-jointing, while maintaining steady pressure and feed. If your hands are not big enough for that, then I can see where it would be a problem. But for me, I am much more comfortable with a Euro guard.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

Photos sure are problematic here. Try this.

458290

[Brian Holcombe]

At long last:

458807458807

This guard is fantastic, it’s driven by a gas spring and actually holds tight to the fence.

[Andy D Jones]

Photos sure are problematic here. Try this.

458290

Steve,

That sure looks to me like a less accessible void than a porkchop guard leaves when the board is in the same position.

And it is certainly a smallervoid than left by a porkchop guard with the stock entirely past the cutter, but not yet past the porkchop guard, preventing the guard from pivoting to cover the cutter at all.

I've used both, and prefer the Euro guard, but it is not perfect. Such does not exist.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Patrick Kane]

At long last:

458807458807

This guard is fantastic, it’s driven by a gas spring and actually holds tight to the fence.

Ah yes, the moment ive waited for! How did you mount the guard to your machine? Did you have an OEM pork chop guard in place originally? I think i will need to tap my machine's base and add a mounting block for the pivot point of the guard.

It looks sweet, i think im going to do it.

[Brian Holcombe]

It comes with a nice mounting block which I had to remove for this. I’ll probably move the pivot point closer to the infeed side by about 1-2” to get a better position.

I had a pork chop, this is much better.