Ringshake

[John Hart]

Andy wanted to make a little vase and asked for a piece of Beech. Here it is. The problem is that there is evidence of Ringshake and I don't know if this is worth mounting on a lathe much less spending the money on shipping. Is there a way to stabilize this? I had never even heard of ringshake until a couple of months ago, so I can not advise.

[Rob Bourgeois]

Andy wanted to make a little vase and asked for a piece of Beech.


LITTLE???



I was told ringshake=firewood. Never had any so I dont knwo first hand.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Can't help you with ringshake John. I do want to see pictures when Andy gets that block on his lathe.:eek: :eek: :D

[Carole Valentine]

Ring shake is bad news. :( If it were me, I'd throw it in the burn pile. BUT...considering the size, you might want to cut some smaller pieces out (away from the shake) anchorseal them and see what happens over time.

[Jim Ketron]

It probably runs half way around the only way this blank would be worth turning would be to cut it up in chunks and remove the wind shake!
Also this can occur during felling of the tree.
I would not risk it the way it is just asking for trouble and Pain!

[Andy Hoyt]

Holy Cow! That thing must weigh a bunch!

John:

Does the defect appear on the other end of the blank?

Hard to tell from the third photo. Is it just discolored or is it really cracked and does it go all the way around?

My intent for this chunk was to turn the trophy for the Febuary Fundraising Frenzy that you and John Bailey cornswaggled me into making. perhaps you could lighten the load with your chainsaw. I have no preference as to its orientation.

But if its bad. It's not likely worth it.

I'll take anything else in its place too - big is good.

[Frank Chaffee]

You guys scare me.
Please be careful ‘cuz I am starting to like some of you.
Frank

[Robert Mickley]

I'll take anything else in its place too - big is good.

heh, guess I shouldn't have cut that 48 inch oak into firewood?


Be careful, I had a piece of walnut that had ring shke, I ended up with a propeller on the lathe and bowl blank across the shop

[Andy Hoyt]

heh, guess I shouldn't have cut that 48 inch oak into firewood?


Be careful, I had a piece of walnut that had ring shke, I ended up with a propeller on the lathe and bowl blank across the shop
Sorry, Robert. I don't do oak. Hate it.

And yup. Been reading up on this ring shake just now and it does not bode well.

[John Hart]

Hmmmm...Well, it is my opinion (which doesn't carry a lot of weight) that this could be stabilized and here are my thoughts. Yes Andy...this goes all the way through...And on the tree that I took it from, there was some bad spots (rotting or something else) going on further down the trunk, in alignment with where this ring damage is. I say, just by looking close, the separation goes maybe 145 degrees on the outer ring and less on the inner one. The rest of the wood looks immaculate. So, since we are regularly repairing cracks with a little epoxy here and a little CA there...and with a hollowform, the impacted area will be miniscule, can't you anticipate the necessity to stabilize and be successful? Maybe I'm just being hopefully optimistic.

Ok...I'll shut up now. We're scaring Frank.:D

[John Hart]

All right...I'm sitting here regretting my hopeful optimizm. I retract what I said. Andy will get killed and then I'll feel bad. How bout I cut it up into nice useful pieces Mr. Hoyt. You could get a couple Hollow Forms and a couple bowls out of half of it!:)

[Frank Chaffee]

Well if you guys would just work thru a slot in 1” Lexan I wouldn’t worry about you so much.

Thank god that Sparky’s piece went straight up and thru the ceiling!!!

Interesting innards of wood revealed is interesting. The fine edge is the edge. You spinney guys and gals are… oh well, never mind.

Be safe people.
Frank

[Ed Scolforo]

Bill G. says that if the piece of wood has ring shake, throw it away.
Ed

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

It can indeed be stabilized if you want. Mesquite is quite notorious for ring shake and can still be worked with quite nicely. Now wether or not it is worth the trouble is anyther question. It is so common on mesquite that you really just learn to deal with it. What I do when I have a mesquite piece that I really don't want to cut the ring shake out of before turning is to use some System Three epoxy colored black. You can mix it up and thin is just a little with alcohol and then pour it into the crack from one end. Put your shop vac on the other end and it will suck the epoxy all the way through. Once you get epoxy going out the other end where the vacuum is, remove the vacuum and cover that area with plastic wrap to keep it from running out. Then keep filling from the other end until it will not take any more. When you come back the following day, you will probalby have to add more since it will tend to creep on down, even though you thought you had it full.

I have never done it with a mesquite blank that big, though so it may not work as well. One smaller blanks that i have done that way, the epoxy will completely fill the void from the ring shake and leave a nice black character line when you turn it.

[Andy Hoyt]

John - I'm afraid that I'm gonna have to pass on it. Have spent the last hour or so reading up this and have determined that I'm too chicken to try. Were I thirty years younger I might have answered differently. Besides, I just spent my coring tool gloat money on my teeth!

Looks like the other half would be a great bowl, but I got plenty of bowl stock just now.

So, I'll take any other chunk of beech you have that looks as though it's a good candidate for that trophy. Yup - bigger is better.

[Bob Noles]

Bill G. says that if the piece of wood has ring shake, throw it away.
Ed

I am with Bill on that one also. Why look for trouble :eek:

[John Hart]

John - I'm afraid that I'm gonna have to pass on it. Have spent the last hour or so reading up this and have determined that I'm too chicken to try. Were I thirty years younger I might have answered differently. Besides, I just spent my coring tool gloat money on my teeth!

Looks like the other half would be a great bowl, but I got plenty of bowl stock just now.

So, I'll take any other chunk of beech you have that looks as though it's a good candidate for that trophy. Yup - bigger is better.

No problem Andy. I completely understand. I kinda feel bad about it. I'll keep my eyes open though.

[Andy Hoyt]

Don't feel bad.

Feel embarrassed.

It took all of SMC to approve your firewood choice:eek:

[Dennis Peacock]

Sorry, Robert. I don't do oak. Hate it.

And yup. Been reading up on this ring shake just now and it does not bode well.

I don't like Oak either. I've had more oak pieces come apart on the lathe, split apart while drying and such. I stopped turning oak at all because it likes to split and crack so much.:(

[John Hart]

I have never done it with a mesquite blank that big, though so it may not work as well. One smaller blanks that i have done that way, the epoxy will completely fill the void from the ring shake and leave a nice black character line when you turn it.

Sounds like an interesting process Curtis. I think you have something workable there as long as there is very little moisture and you can successfully get the goo all the way through with even distribution. Sounds worthy to try. Probably won't work on this one though as the rings are too tight to get a vacuum going all the way through...plus the moisture. But, I'm gonna keep your process in my mind. Hey, maybe if I cut this up, I can try it on a smaller piece! You know, for research purposes. ;) :) :)

[Robert Mickley]

I don't like Oak either. I've had more oak pieces come apart on the lathe, split apart while drying and such. I stopped turning oak at all because it likes to split and crack so much.:(

Interesting, oak is probably the one thing I haven't exploded on the lathe yet.
Not to hijack the thread but since I started boiling I havent had that much trouble with spitting and cracking

[Dick Strauss]

John,
It looks like you could get four 6" slabs off of the sides with a chainsaw and remove all noticeable shake areas in the middle. I defineitely wouldn't mess with the shake material. It has been my experience that once you get rid of the shake, the outer wood could be fine. Try slabbing it and let it dry with no A-seal for 7 days and wait for shake signs. If none appear, seal ends and go for it. Usually the shake will be among the first defects to show up first as the piece dries.

[John Hart]

...Try slabbing it and let it dry with no A-seal for 7 days and wait for shake signs. If none appear, seal ends and go for it. Usually the shake will be among the first defects to show up first as the piece dries.

Thanks Dick...that's good advice. I was kinda wondering whether I should wait or not. I'll give it a go.

[Jeff Singleton]

Is ringshake the same as wind shear or are they different?

Jeff Singleton

[John Hart]

Jeff,
It is my understanding that Ringshake, being the separation of the growth rings, can be caused from disease, tramatic wind, or the trauma from the tree falling. I reckon it could be caused a bunch of other ways.
The only reference to Wind Shear, that I am aware of is in aviation dealing with severe unexpected cross winds. But I am very limited in my understanding. Perhaps others can shed more light.