Benchtop mortiser - anybody have one?

[Jon Endres]

I am looking at purchasing a benchtop mortiser to do several large projects - a couple dining room tables, a china hutch, a workbench and some cabinets. Specifically breadboard table ends, leg joints and possibly cabinet door frames. I'd like opinions from you guys on what you have, or have used, and like. I am not finding a lot of reviews or information online about these machines, I assume they are not common in home shops (I've never seen one in a shop IRL) but they seem to be a good balance between something really expensive like a Festool Domino and the time and effort required to use hand tools. I'm leaning toward the Grizzly G0645 for price, and because I like the big cast iron table, but I don't know if any of the others out there have "must-have" features or a clearly superior fit and finish. I have absolutely NO experience with one of these, not even a drill press version, so I really need some advice.

EDIT: Realized there was a very good thread about this subject a couple years ago, so no need to respond unless you want to. Always looking for advice.

[Frederick Skelly]

I was in tbe market about 4 years ago and looked at several of brands. I bought the PM701 because it was very solid, had features I wanted and had good reviews. (Fine Woodworking did a compare online and they graciously gave me a 2 week membership so I could go read it.) This is the PM701: LINK (https://www.amazon.com/Powermatic-1791310-PM701-Horsepower-Mortiser/dp/B000BX1JQU/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqI-S-LXa7wIVx1PVCh2uWAuhEAAYBCAAEgKBvPD_BwE&hvadid=358327852223&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9027821&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=10212100333805279143&hvtargid=kwd-354347758680&hydadcr=17765_11226400&keywords=powermatic+benchtop+mortiser&qid=1617189932&sr=8-2)

I caught it on sale for $550 at Tools Plus. It works well for me. Whichever mortising machine you buy, I recommend buying high quality mortising chisels and prepping them carefully - polish the outide until it is mirror like, and other tricks (search online).

I also suggest trying to see the machine in person, if time, location and covid allow. I ruled out a couple machines because they felt "less sturdy" to me than the PM. I was on a business trip and their local Woodcraft had 3 brands side by side, which made it easy.

Good hunting.
Fred

[David Lageman]

I will echo Fredericks recommendation on the PM701. Given I'm just a hobbyist, I didn't want to break the bank just for a home shop and this has proven to be a great machine.

[Robert Engel]

I have a PM floor type, but the principle is the same - there are other ways to accomplish them.

For me, its a question of time and set up. Even though I'm not production shop, I don't have a lot of time to mess around with jigs and set ups.

The the question, PM is the best of the bunch. That said, an XY table is really nice, you might take a look at Rikon and others.

[Bill Carey]

I've been using the Baileigh MC-625 for several years and am quite happy with it. Very secure hold down, x-y table.

[Rob Sack]

I have the Multico made in England. It's very high quality. It's been listed for sale here in the Sawmill Creek Classifieds only because I got a great deal on the Powermatic 720HD mortiser.

[Stan Calow]

I probably complained about my Delta mortiser in that old thread you found, and I'm still complaining about it.

[Jeff Ramsey]

I ended up having John TenEyck build me one of his mortisers, which use a router. I owned the Delta but never really liked it. John’s design is portable, capable and well thought out. It does everything I need with mortising. Contact John and he’ll tell you more.

[Ed Aumiller]

Have the Delta version.. it is over 10 years old... not the best, but works fine for me...
Just need to keep it sharp and added a longer table to make leg work easier...

[Thomas McCurnin]

+1 on Delta. I made an auxiliary table

[Ron Citerone]

I have a Jet benchtop that I got on ebay. I like it. The thing I learned is spending time to learn to sharpen the chisels is paramount! Also the chisel bit distance makes a big difference, try different adjustments to see what works best.

[Frederick Skelly]

I havent needed an XY table myself, but I recall seeing some straightforward ways to make one from something harbor freight sells. If I ever need one, I'll go that way.

[Charlie Jones]

Take a look at Matthias Wandel’s shop built mortiser on Woodgears.ca. It is router based and very accurate and versatile. I use mine a lot.

[Andrew More]

Take a look at Matthias Wandel’s shop built mortiser on Woodgears.ca. It is router based and very accurate and versatile. I use mine a lot.

While this is a good idea, I'd suggest the panto router first, since it does mortising, but so much more besides.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Search Morterly Mortiser, and Woodsmith / ShopNotes Mortiser. I built the Woodsmith / ShopNotes version, and like it. Been on my to do list for some time. Just waiting for a project to use it on. i have one of the first generation Delta's, that I bought to do a set of cabinet doors. Did exactly what I needed. Note the Morterly uses a guide bushing to guide cut, while the Woodsmith version uses the router base. Also check out Phil Thien's mortiser. Phil's name may sound familiar, as he invented the Thien Baffle

[Frederick Skelly]

Search Morterly Mortiser, and Woodsmith / ShopNotes Mortiser. I built the Woodsmith / ShopNotes version, and like it. Been on my to do list for some time. Just waiting for a project to use it on. i have one of the first generation Delta's, that I bought to do a set of cabinet doors. Did exactly what I needed. Note the Morterly uses a guide bushing to guide cut, while the Woodsmith version uses the router base. Also check out Phil Thien's mortiser. Phil's name may sound familiar, as he invented the Thien Baffle

Here's a recent thread on the Morely Mortiser. LINK (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?287942-I-built-a-Morley-Mortiser)

[Christopher Herzog]

I have a grizzly and find myself not using it. If I had it to do over I think I would pass.

[Aaron Rosenthal]

I have a General. It can go months between uses, but like now I’m building a set of window screens and it’s great. If I had to dial in a router then square them off ( or even make floating tenons) I think I’d go buggy. Too much fiddle time.

[Curt Harms]

I have a Jet benchtop and seldom use it. I added an X Y vise which I'd recommend. A router based solution will yield smoother walls for the mortises which should result in a better glue joint.

[derek labian]

I also have the PM701. I used it to make a bed extension. It worked well enough but I bought cheap chisels to start with, and the mortises weren't as perfect as I would have liked. So yes, if you buy one, buy good chisels. I also bought the extension block for larger material. If I were to do it again, I would have bought a floor unit, or just skipped it and used dominos.

[Jim Barstow]

I had a delta benchtop mortiser for years when I had a smaller shop. It was a POS but I didn’t have the space for something better. I learned to live with its slop and flex. When I got a bigger shop, I got a grizzly floor standing mortiser. It is much, much better but not perfect. If you are making mortises on smaller pieces of softer wood, a benchtop may be fine. No matter what, get good chisels and keep them sharp.

[Mike Stelts]

I just sold a Jet tabletop, because a Powermatic floor-standing model was selling used nearby and I couldn't resist. I made a blanket chest with the Jet. It takes time to set up; but, it works. The difference between the two is setup time on the Jet, no sliding table, and clamps that aren't quite strong enough. Bolt it to a big board, clamp it to a heavy table and the drilling is about the same. The annoying thing with the Jet was the hold-down clamp is not strong enough to keep the board from lifting up; but, there are ways to fix this with some imagination.

I think the key to using any mortiser is keeping the chisels sharp and waxed.

[Richard Coers]

I despise bench top hollow chisel mortisers. So much so that I have a Domino, Pant-o-router, and a Leigh FMT so I never have to use one again!

[Jim Dwight]

I have a Jet but plan to sell it. It works but my Domino XL works a lot better. The main thing I do not like about the Jet is pulling the chisel back out after the first cut. It does not have a clamp so I try to clamp to the fence with quick clamps or C clamps but it is still hard to pull a 1/2 inch chisel back out of hardwood. A second disadvantage that is much more minor is the rough surface it leaves. Maybe sharper chisels would do better. But the domino makes a very smooth mortise very similar to one made with a router and spiral cut bit. But the biggest advantage of the domino is speed. Much quicker setup time and quicker cutting of mortises. No need to be limited to the sizes of premade tenons. Multiple plunges about 1/2 inch apart will give you a wide mortise more like a normal joint. But I get that a domino is a lot more expensive. A hollow chisel mortiser will work fine. But if you can get one with a clamp to hold the wood I defintely would.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have a General International machine, I’ve used it for 20 years now, works great....Rod

[Curt Harms]

<snip>
A hollow chisel mortiser will work fine. But if you can get one with a clamp to hold the wood I defintely would.

An X Y vise fixes that problem. Something like these. I recall there is a modification required, I think moving the screw that tightens the jaws but don't recall details right now.

https://www.grizzly.com/search?q=sliding+vise

[Mike Cutler]

Jon

I've had the Delta 651 for many years. It has been modified as most usually do. I don't think I know where the base is any longer.
The key to a benchtop mortiser is very, very,sharp chisels, and an x-y table. You absolutely must be able to sharpen those chisels, or you will fight any mortiser all day long. You will also need to invest in the stones necessary to sharpen the bits. The bit leads the whole tool. That first contact has to be exact and effortless.
An x-y vise is fine for smaller pieces of material, but an x-y table and vise off a milling machine, or designed for use with a milling machine, will be many times better.
My Delta 651 is repeatable to within 1/2 the width of a pencil line. The walls are straight, true, and parallel. But it took quite a bit of modification on my part to make it that way. Buy the model that requires the least modification. But it has to have an x-y table, and vise, and a good one, or everything will be painfully slower.
Routers are fine for cutting mortises, but there are limitations, same with the Domino. The depth of the mortise will be dictated by the diameter of the bit.Smaller diameter bits are generally shorter in length to maintain strength.
The FMT's are amazing pieces of hardware. Absolutely elegant and beautiful in design and function, but again the router bit itself is the limiting factor.
Benchtop Mortisers are also limited by the width of the mortise, but a 1/4", or 5/16" chisel set can give you a mortise with a depth of 2"+.
I remember when Bill Carey was looking at benchtop mortiser. His research was pretty thorough. If Bill is happy with the Bailiegh, I would strongly advise checking it out.

[Charles Lent]

I've tried about every way there is to make mortise and tenon joints. A router does it better, if rounded end mortises and tenons are OK for what you are making. I bought a Leigh FMT Pro and it has the ability to make very accurate and perfectly fitting M&T joints over and over with enough repeatability to be able to insert any given tenon that I make into the mortise that I make of that size. No final fitting at all is required once I have adjusted the jig for that size mortise and matching tenon. I can make them all day long and if all the same size, all will fit together properly. I ended up buying it when faced with a job that required over 1,600 M&T joints, and the FMT was the only jig that had the ability to do this quality of joint without any final fitting. I might still be working on that job if I hadn't gone with the FMT jig.
There is a knob adjustment that allows adjustment in the fit by 0.001" increments. The jig makes both the mortise and the matching tenon with the same setup. Once you get the fit of the first tenon and mortise to fit the way that you want, every mortise and tenon made after that will fit perfectly, unless you fail to make the cut properly. Tenon #100 will fit in every mortise from #1-100 the same way, as will every other tenon made that day. It's a very expensive jig, but worth every penny that I paid. Have you ever made a tenon on a wooden matchstick and then the matching mortise in another matchstick? They demonstrated this at a trade show, but I had to make one myself to become a believer.

Charley

[Andrew Seemann]

I have a 20 year old Delta bench top (the Norm Abram style one) and a 10 or so year old Jet bench top. Would I love a floor model morticer, yes, but the bench tops work well enough for me.

I think the Delta with its dovetailed column works a little better of the two, although the fence I got was bad from day one. I ended up using a mortice fence from a drill press mortice adapter which I can T-nut to the base and that works very well. I use it often enough that I have it mounted to a dedicated rolling stand, so it sort of functions like a floor model. An x-y table would be nice, but I get by without one. I will be using it to make the 40 mortices on the Mission bed I am in process of building.

I would agree that the main drawback of the Jet is that the hold down does not hold down well enough and the chisel can angle-jam on the way out. I fixed that by c-clamping the fence to the table when I did deeper mortices.

[Charlie Jones]

Is the PantaRouter as good as their website proclaimes?

[Richard Coers]

Is the PantaRouter as good as their website proclaimes?
I had a Multi-Router since the early 90 and sold it about 5 years ago. I missed it and bought a Pantorouter at the end of 2019. I'm very impressed with it. I like that the table is fixed which is much nicer when doing large heavy pieces. The Multi Router had a moveable table. All the templates for tenons have a taper on them, so adjusting the ball bearing follower adjusts the fit. Once you like that fit, you tighten a collar on the shaft of the follower so it returns to the same each time. Well worth the money in my opinion!

[Charlie Jones]

I built Matthias Wandels slot mortiser. It works really well. I am intrigued by the PantoRouter. I would buy the metal version because the wood one would be time consuming to built and likely not as accurate. I may put one on my list.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I have the floor standing PM719T mortiser, but a couple of months ago, bought the Pantorouter.

I've done mortises in fine furniture, box joints and also made a bench out of 2x4's for my Son with large M&T's. This thing is bang on accurate and repeatable, simple to dial in, plus it's fairly lightweight so it's easy to move and store.

Today I plan on doing 6 sets of dovetail drawers on the pantorouter.

I also have a Festool Domino, but between the three tools, if the pants router can do the job, that's the one that gets the job.

[Roger Feeley]

Take a look at Matthias Wandel’s shop built mortiser on Woodgears.ca. It is router based and very accurate and versatile. I use mine a lot.
I love that guy! Dig down in the website and see what his dad did for that camp.

[mreza Salav]

I started with simple jigs to use router for mortising (these are very old photos of it):

455553455554

It's very accurate, I've used with 3/8" and 1/2" spiral bits.
I purchased a General Int (tilting head) bench top to do square baluster for railing and that was the only project it used it. Kept it for a while then sold as it was not as accurate nor easy to use (bits need to be SHARP, and re-sharpened frequently). Don't even think about attachments for drill press. They won't work. I have Domino 700 (had 500 before) and I never looked back.
I suggest don't waste your money on a bench-top one. Either build a simple jig (like above) or a more complex one as suggested above and they are a lot better than a bench-top mortiser.

[Michael Drew]

Jon

I've had the Delta 651 for many years. It has been modified as most usually do. I don't think I know where the base is any longer.
The key to a benchtop mortiser is very, very,sharp chisels, and an x-y table. You absolutely must be able to sharpen those chisels, or you will fight any mortiser all day long. You will also need to invest in the stones necessary to sharpen the bits. The bit leads the whole tool. That first contact has to be exact and effortless.
An x-y vise is fine for smaller pieces of material, but an x-y table and vise off a milling machine, or designed for use with a milling machine, will be many times better.
My Delta 651 is repeatable to within 1/2 the width of a pencil line. The walls are straight, true, and parallel. But it took quite a bit of modification on my part to make it that way. Buy the model that requires the least modification. But it has to have an x-y table, and vise, and a good one, or everything will be painfully slower.
Routers are fine for cutting mortises, but there are limitations, same with the Domino. The depth of the mortise will be dictated by the diameter of the bit.Smaller diameter bits are generally shorter in length to maintain strength.
The FMT's are amazing pieces of hardware. Absolutely elegant and beautiful in design and function, but again the router bit itself is the limiting factor.
Benchtop Mortisers are also limited by the width of the mortise, but a 1/4", or 5/16" chisel set can give you a mortise with a depth of 2"+.
I remember when Bill Carey was looking at benchtop mortiser. His research was pretty thorough. If Bill is happy with the Bailiegh, I would strongly advise checking it out.

I'd be real interested in seeing the mods you made to your 651. I have the same machine, but rarely use it, due to its shortcomings. But when I need it, I need it..... I'd like to make it a better tool than just give up on it.

[Mike Cutler]

I'd be real interested in seeing the mods you made to your 651. I have the same machine, but rarely use it, due to its shortcomings. But when I need it, I need it..... I'd like to make it a better tool than just give up on it.

Michael

Thank you for prompting me to change my membership status to post pictures.
Give me some time and I'll get some pictures.Be warned though, it is not elegant, but it is rugged, reliable, and works like a champ. Don't expect to be "wowed". ;)

Don't give up on it. The is capable of doing serious work. It just needs a little help.
The OEM base, fence, and holdown, on the 651 just did not work for me. They were crude, clumsy, and just not stout enough for mortising into tropical hardwoods. They may work well for softer woods, and some of the softer domestic hardwoods, but not the hard tropicals.
The other issue is the OEM chisels. As supplied, they are nowhere near prepared to cut a mortise. They are dull, and the bit is not sharpened at all close to what is required. The base and fence were problems, but that chisel set was probably a bigger problem.
Lee Valley makes a cone hone for the chisel inside faces,and Japanese waterstones will hone the outside faces. I treat them just like bench chisels, so they are honed to 4000grit. My chisels finish with 8000 grit.
I bought a set of slip stones from Woodcraft, and some Spyderco serrated sharpening stones many years ago for the drill bits. I'm not going to lie to you, it took me a few days to really figure out how to get them right. Now,any incidental contact with those chisels, results in blood. They are very sharp.
Debris extraction is an absolute must. Somehow, or the other, you have to get a vacuum pickup right at the base of the slot in the chisel. The "swarf" will fall back into the mortise and just makes that much more work.
Give me some time and I'll post some pic's.

[Warren Lake]

The drill press ones work, I did custom work on the press until I got an 1,800 lb machine. Not as easy on the press but you would not be able to tell if they were cut on the press or the pro machine.

[Bill Carey]

I started with simple jigs to use router for mortising (these are very old photos of it):

455553455554

It's very accurate, I've used with 3/8" and 1/2" spiral bits.
I purchased a General Int (tilting head) bench top to do square baluster for railing and that was the only project it used it. Kept it for a while then sold as it was not as accurate nor easy to use (bits need to be SHARP, and re-sharpened frequently). Don't even think about attachments for drill press. They won't work. I have Domino 700 (had 500 before) and I never looked back.
I suggest don't waste your money on a bench-top one. Either build a simple jig (like above) or a more complex one as suggested above and they are a lot better than a bench-top mortiser.


great minds etc etc
455577

[Richard Link]

Well...I feel like this is the start of a 12 step program....I have a mortise and tenon "machine" problem. Aside from the usual suspects of chisels, plunge router, drill press, jigs etc. I also have both dominos (why oh why), a multirouter, a pantorouter (new), a Leigh FMT pro, a Shaper Origin, a CNC, and both a floor model (grizzly) and a benchtop (delta; waiting to be sold) hollow chisel mortiser. Yeah - don't tell my wife, please. But I honestly use all of these machines quite regularly and they all have their advantages and disadvantages.

With respect to choosing ONE machine to do it all, it all comes down to how you like to cut your tenons in my opinion. I you love cutting square integral tenons using a tablesaw and tenoning jig or maybe a shaper in one step then a hollow chisel mortiser is a great tool. It's honestly a one trick pony though so it probably gets the least use of the embarrassing list of tools above in my shop. Whether you get a floor model or a benchtop is primarily a function of space and whether you really need a tilting head option. That is assuming we aren't including the old American Iron versions of this machine which are in another class. The biggest advantage to my floor model isn't the extra power but rather that the table is more sophisticated and has x-y controls that actually work well.

The domino is clearly the easiest and most idiot proof option and if you can live with floating tenons for everything it is a game changer - sort of a cheat code in a video game. The Pantorouter (which I have the least experience with so far as it is relatively new) seems to be the best combination of versatility, ease of use and community support. Easier to make your own templates, be creative. If you told me I could only have one machine I suspect the pantorouter would be it (or maybe that and a domino and call it done). I suspect this one is going to be my go to for a LOT of things. The multirouter is the nicest made, the most fun and "coolest" but has very little educational or instructional support out there and using one is a bit of a black art (also fun). Now that Woodpeckers has bought the rights to it perhaps things will improve as it is a beautiful machine. The table isn't quite as large as the Pantorouter's and offboard workpiece support is necessary for larger pieces. With that said, it's a killer way to do the mortises for bed rail hardware... The Leigh FMT is versatile and fun to use but probably wouldn't be my go to if I had to choose just one machine as the setup can be lengthy.

In conclusion: if you are set on a hollow chisel mortiser, and make your tenons on the tablesaw, I would actually suggest going with relatively inexpensive (maybe splurge on the PM701) and stay away from a floor model unless you KNOW you are going to be using this thing all the time!

[Brian Holcombe]

Fully commit to the hollow chisel platform, get a sturdy machine (old iron) and sharpen the chisels.
Personally, I love using the hollow chisel mortiser and the Maka. The hollow chisel is quite popular with my students also.

Sharp chisels, accurate setup and a sturdy machine make the platform.

[Ryan Yeaglin]

I have a Delta, got it cheap on FB marketplace. The previous owner was NOT mechanically inclined to say the least. $100 in parts and a new set of chisels and I'm in for a total of $250 so not bad. Check the used market, you could make out like I did.