Sjobergs 1900 / SB119

[Patrick Krekelberg]

Hi all!

I have not seen any comments on the Sjobergs SB119 (https://affinitytool.com/mwdownloads/download/link/id/115/) bench (here (https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/sjobergs-sb119-professional-workbench.aspx) on highland). I am in the "more money than time" category, not because of an excess of cash, but a total lack of time due to numerous homeschooled children, homestead to look after, and business. So I am planning to buy a bench. Many furniture items need building for the house (desks for kids, dining table, nightstands, etc.) and I would like to learn hand tools over the next few years as well. We do also have a Tom Donahey shaving horse, which I love.

This seems similar to the Elite (https://affinitytool.com/elite-workbench-2000-sm04-cabinet-combo) in that the legs are flush with the front, but it has two big differences:

I believe the term is "shoulder" vice with a wooden screw on the SB119 as opposed to the end vice on the Elite
Dog holes are square along the front for use with the shoulder vice, then 3/4" round holes are inline with the front vice (as opposed to the Elite which has all 1" round holes, with two rows along the length)


I have an Elite 2000 ordered but delivery will be in June based on the backorder status. The SB119 is in stock.

As a novice hand tool woodworker, will it matter having square vs. round and the shoulder vice, or will I just get used to what I've got and enjoy it? Or is the more "modern" flexibility of the Elite worth waiting for? In many ways I appreciate the nostalgia of the SB119 very much, and picture it being beautiful in the shop. But I want to make sure it would be just as functional as well, and it's effectively the same price.

What are your thoughts on these? For the record I also really like the H&H All Round (https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/new-hofmann-hammer-all-round-workbench.aspx) as well (and Highland has some), in case anyone has comments on that.

For the record - as I am just learning hand tools I will be primarily a power tool operator for at least a few years until I build up some skills. And being a father with limited time I anticipate using mostly power tools for many years regardless. So I'm hoping the bench will be just as useful for routers, Domino, etc. within reason. But my 12 year old son is very excited about green woodworking, especially spoons, so we'll be in both camps.

And finally - yes - I would consider an L-N bench (who wouldn't?) but as far as I can see they are not available and there is no indication when they will be.

Thanks all!
Patrick

[Tom Trees]

Do you already have or have space for another rough bench for all sorts, metalwork for instance, along with having a pair of nice ones?
I can't see the flimsy one being much good for planing without a bit of work, or at the very least bracing the end against the wall, or against something that's against the wall.
So depending on what you do may reduce the length you can plane easily, if that matters.

Have you looked for used ones?

[Patrick Krekelberg]

I do have a simple 8' long simple 2x4 bench on the back wall of my shop with an oak plywood top which is mostly a catch-all above, and storage for chainsaw and forestry tools below. So this "fancy" bench, whatever we end up with, would be a woodworking bench first and foremost. I am just now getting a lumber rack built to get wood off the floor, and figuring out organization (we've been building the house for 3 years, shop is on the same property). I am very much looking forward to having a usable wood shop!

I haven't looked around much for used ones just because I suspect shipping would be tricky, but that would certainly be an option.

Cheers!

[Jim Koepke]

Patrick, Looking at the benches it doesn't seem any of them have what comes to mind when a shoulder vise is mentioned.

My Sjöberg bench came with two simple vises:

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My favorite feature of this style of vise is the work piece can pass through and beyond the vise. A shoulder vise doesn't allow this. Neither does the end vise shown on some of the benches you linked.

If you look under the right end you will see a bucket filled with concrete to hold the bench stable. When planing the bench had a tendency to walk or tilt.

The least desirable aspect of a simple vise is its tendency to rack. My solution to that was to make an anti rack spacer stack:

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https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?183743

With four blades of 1/8", 1/4", 1/2" & 1" it can be used to prevent racking upto 1-7/8". There is also a block used with this of 1"X2" for larger openings.

It is easy for me to make all the dogs one could want on my lathe. If one doesn't have a lathe then it is easy to purchase dowel stock and make some dogs. Mine use bullet catches:

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There are many other ways to make a springy catch to hold them in place.

It amazes me how the same bench now 15-20 years later is twice the cost.

jtk

[Scott Winners]

I have no personal experience with that bench. It comes in a flat pack, nominal 80x30x8. I don't know how humid northern MN gets in the summer, but folks from there up here don't complain about the cold because we rarely have wind to go with the temps.

It is rated five stars on Amazon but only two reviews. I am not a fan of metal fasteners. I understand about having more money than time. I think the most important thing to recognize is your first workbench probably won't be your last workbench.

I do not expect that bench to hold up very well or very long to regular hand tool processes.

[Jim Matthews]

I started with this bench.

If you screw on a plywood backer over the rear frame it will be *much* stiffer.

It's my opinion that the vises are merely adequate.

*****

If your spending serious cash (in lieu of time) I recommend having a solid bench built to spec.

https://www.mnwwg.org/classes.html

[Jerome Andrieux]

> In many ways I appreciate the nostalgia of the SB119 very much, and picture it being beautiful in the shop. But I want to make sure it would be just as functional as well, and it's effectively the same price.

I have not owned sjobergs benches but have worked on them a couple times. They are quite light, the leg assembly is a bit flimsy. This can easily be improved. However they look nice, they are functional, the vises are OK, they can be ordered, shipped and delivered to your doorstep. If you value your time, go ahead.

Now, as someone else said, it might not be your last bench.

Regarding shoulder vise versus end vise, both work OK.

Regarding bench dogs, I prefer the 3/4 - 19mm round holes, to accommodate dogs and holdfasts.

[David Bassett]

I understand budget is a real thing. But I've never heard anyone suggest BenchCrafted benches wouldn't be sturdy enough. Have you looked at them? At least as a point of reference? E.g:

BenchCrafted Classic Workbench (https://www.benchcrafted.com/classicbench)

[Patrick Krekelberg]

I started with this bench.

If your spending serious cash (in lieu of time) I recommend having a solid bench built to spec.

https://www.mnwwg.org/classes.html

That is a great idea I hadn't considered, but should since any of these would take weeks to receive anyway.

@Jim you started with one of the Sjobergs Elite benches, is that right? I have seen others on the forum who are quite happy with them.

Benchcrafted - definitely an option since they are right down in Iowa. No end vice on the Classic but I know some say it's not necessary. And expensive, although I am not suggesting they're not worth the cost.

[Ed Mitchell]

I'm with David above on the Benchcrafted recommendation. I've worked on a Sjobergs, and it was OK, but it did not impress. The front vise has less capacity that virtually any other option, and it lacks mass for hand tool work.
If you have the funds, also consider a custom bench from Frank Strazza. You'll be able to pass it on to your son, and it will thrive under any kind of woodworking task.

[Jim Matthews]

@Jim you started with one of the Sjobergs Elite benches, is that right? I have seen others on the forum who are quite happy with them.

I reinforced mine with a plywood panel on the back, and it was better, but the vises were clunky.

I haunted the local Craigslist until a well built bench came available.

[Tom Trees]

Mitch Peacock has one of the heavier ones I believe, not sure if it's the elite though.
Might be worth seeing if he has any video blogs on youtube about it.

[Scott Winners]

The idea that a plywood panel on the back connecting the hind legs to the top makes a lot of intuitive sense to me. God be with you.

[Jim Matthews]

The idea that a plywood panel on the back connecting the hind legs to the top makes a lot of intuitive sense to me. God be with you.
I stuck it on after installing a shelf.

I kept pushing things off the shelf which upset the local spider population. Dumb luck it made the bench better.

[ken hatch]

Patrick,

Full disclosure, I'm a Moravian workbench fan boy. I've built a few and have worked on several almost exclusively since the first build. I understand more money than time and if you wish to buy here is a link to a builder https://woodandshop.com/portable-moravian-workbench-for-sale/ A link to Will Myers who has free plans and sometimes has a Moravian bench for sale https://eclecticmechanicals.com/2018/08/01/moravian-workbench-plans-free/

Unlike some other bench builds, the Moravian bench is an easy, cheep, and quick build. None of the joints are difficult nor does it require any special tools. A hand saw, a few chisels, and a couple of planes will do the job. I can build a finished bench in less than a month while working full time at my day job, keeping Casa Chaos from falling down, and taking care of MsBubba. I've documented several builds here on the Creek and on my blog http://imaokguy.blogspot.com

No real dog in this fight but you can have a better bench for just a little time and a lot less money. Using wood from the local Home Depot and vise hardware from BenchCrafted or Lake Erie you can have a bench that is a joy to work on and will last a lifetime for under $500 USD. The cost will go up if you insist on a hardwood slab but there is no need, I've one bench with a SYP slab that is over 40 years old and the slab just keeps getting better with age.

ken

[Patrick Krekelberg]

Mitch Peacock has one of the heavier ones I believe, not sure if it's the elite though.
Might be worth seeing if he has any video blogs on youtube about it.

Looks like he has an earlier one similar to the SB119 as well as an Elite based upon this video (https://youtu.be/XpE0422A7Rw). Thanks for the reference!


Patrick,

Full disclosure, I'm a Moravian workbench fan boy. I've built a few and have worked on several almost exclusively since the first build. I understand more money than time and if you wish to buy here is a link to a builder https://woodandshop.com/portable-moravian-workbench-for-sale/ A link to Will Myers who has free plans and sometimes has a Moravian bench for sale https://eclecticmechanicals.com/2018/08/01/moravian-workbench-plans-free/

Unlike some other bench builds, the Moravian bench is an easy, cheep, and quick build. None of the joints are difficult nor does it require any special tools. A hand saw, a few chisels, and a couple of planes will do the job. I can build a finished bench in less than a month while working full time at my day job, keeping Casa Chaos from falling down, and taking care of MsBubba. I've documented several builds here on the Creek and on my blog http://imaokguy.blogspot.com

No real dog in this fight but you can have a better bench for just a little time and a lot less money. Using wood from the local Home Depot and vise hardware from BenchCrafted or Lake Erie you can have a bench that is a joy to work on and will last a lifetime for under $500 USD. The cost will go up if you insist on a hardwood slab but there is no need, I've one bench with a SYP slab that is over 40 years old and the slab just keeps getting better with age.

ken

Thanks for this, Ken - I love the Moravian and its history. We often RV travel to the Carolinas so I will definitely take the kids to some historic sites where the old benches are. We have an old 20x20 gambrel-roof cabin on our property which is just for storage now. But eventually we hope to restore it and use it as a 'historic' shop (it's across the driveway from the modern shop where my office/studio is located). So even if we get a commercial bench, I will plan to build a Moravian in there some day. Right now it would be impossible to justify building a bench. We have a lot of irons in the fire as they say, so I am trying to find the balance.

Considering ultimate cost, the cost of my time arranging logistics considering we are on the home stretch of getting our house finished, and schedule unknowns with anything these days, I think I will keep my order for the Sjobergs Elite 2000. If I had more time and was willing to spend a little more, I'd go for the Benchcrafted STR without question. I am surprised to hear anyone talk of the Sjobergs as not being suitable for hand tools, but they make a lot of different trestle designs, so maybe this is in reference to a lighter weight bench?

[Thomas Wilson]

I am a fan of the Sjobergs Elite. I have both 1500 and 2000. The 1500 is in an entirely hand tool shop. I cannot see any limitation for using hand tools with it. Sjobergs has made some innovations to address deficiencies with traditional designs. The wide wooden clamp faces minimize the chance of marring the workpiece. The square guide bars on the vises have adjustable pads that can be used to compensate for wear so the vises do not rack when loaded on the side. Double rows of dog holes give many different ways to clamp workpieces. The 1” dogs do less damage to workpieces than 3/4” dogs. I have a traditional Scandinavian style bench that I made. I prefer the Sjobergs.

[Jim Koepke]

I am surprised to hear anyone talk of the Sjobergs as not being suitable for hand tools

My guess is armchair woodworkers are the ones making those claims.

My main modification to my small Sjöberg bench was to add 80 lbs of concrete in a bucket to the tail end to stabilize it when planing long boards.

Mortising is one of the more forceful jobs in hand tool woodworking:

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The age old wisdom of chopping a mortise is, when possible, place the work above a leg.

My Shöberg may have skinny legs but they are able to stand up to this.

jtk