Miss the Mom and Pop Hardware stores

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Went to Lowes yesterday for a few things and was searching through the tool department searching for a certain size brad point bit. An employee stocking shelves was near and I ask, "Do you carry brad point bits?" He replies, " I have worked 5 years in the tool department and never heard of such a thing." Just as the last word comes out, I spy them on the bottom hooks next to the Forstner bits. They have on card with 5 assorted sizes, but not the size I need. I handed them to the employee, told him I need a 7/16th and walk away.

[Robert Engel]

You picked the worst place to go. Lowe’s is a home improvement store, Home Depot is much more like a hardware store. I hate Lowe’s - any store that puts hardware on the opposite end from building materials - I mean, Come On!

Closest thing you’ll find is Ace, True Value, etc.

But still, employee knowledge is hit or miss. At my Ace, I always look for Gene, who’s worked there for over 40 years.

[Curt Harms]

We have a decent supply of non-Borg harware sources -- 2 True Valu and one Ace within 10 miles. Maybe 15 miles away there's a real old time if-they-dont-have-it-you-don't-need-it place. Finkles in Lambertville NJ. finkles.com.

[roger wiegand]

They are still around, and indeed seem to be rebounding. There are three independents that are within the distance it takes me to get to HD or Lowes. The key to their survival is for people to shop there. Likewise for the independent lumberyards. Make a point of going there rather than the big box stores. Yes it might cost a buck or two more per trip, but you are supporting your neighbors by doing so.

[Brian Elfert]

There have to actually be independent retail lumberyards in order to patronize them. The closest retail lumberyard I know of is a 40 mile round trip. I will go there occasionally for special items, but I won’t make the trip for a 2x4.

Other lumberyards are huge and specialize in selling to contractors. They are open like 7 am to 4 pm and not on weekends. The ones that will sell retail treat you like a bother.

[Prashun Patel]

Good luck finding a 7/16” Brad point at a mom and pop store. Quality of service is where they excel - not selection.

Alas, how can a mom and pop survive when it requires our charity to subsist. I am sad about it too.

[glenn bradley]

Its good to hear a lot of people are trying to support their communities and do business locally, as I do. If I can't get what I am after at Ernie's Hardware I will go to a chain. If I shop the chain I still tell myself I am helping the locals who work there to remain employed. I do however have little guilt over buying online instead of at the BORG. Here's a nice BP (https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/power-tool-accessories/drill-bits/42247-hss-lipped-imperial-brad-point-drills?item=07J0228) bit. There are others.

I don't expect a return to the "fair price" model in retailing now that we have become a "lowest price possible" society. Once you paid a fair price for an item. This price allowed a profit that paid for the training and employment of intelligent people who strove to do a good job. Many found their place in one area or another and became the person who the rest went to for answers. Workers made a good wage and so could pay a fair price for the things that they bought. See how this worked? When your goal is to provide the lowest price, there is no room in the profit margin of the product for anything but getting the product from maker to buyer. Service before and after the sale, convenience, atmosphere, and a pleasant experience fall to the wayside.

Orchard Supply Hardware was a California based outfit that ran from 1931 to 2018. When you needed a 1/4" x 28TPI oval-head machine screw 1-1/8" long, OSH is where you went. Ace does a pretty good job of carrying small amounts of a wide array of hardware and I get lucky there sometimes. My Ace is locally owned and run by people from my community so I shop there when I can. I'll even pay a bit more to keep my cash in my neighborhood but, I can't consistently pay 15% more or higher.

[Stan Calow]

About 18 years ago, we had a massive ice storm that took out power for a huge chunk of the area I live in. Most businesses were closed for a couple of miles radius for about three days. The only place open was the local Ace store. Without lights or power, they would take customers desperate for batteries and flashlights, extension cords, propane, etc., into the store by flashlight and find what they needed. With no cash registers, credit card readers, or scanners working, the workers guessed at the prices, estimated the total cost and wrote it down on a piece of paper for customers to come back and pay when they could. Now that one incident earned my eternal loyalty. I cant imagine the big box stores doing anything like that.

[Frank Pratt]

HD came to Canada several years before Lowes and for the most part, they have built near a HD, so they're both easy to get to. I tried, but I just can't like Lowes. Selection is generally not as good, prices are generally not as good, store layout is not as good, no tap at checkout, no emailed receipts. So Lowes is a last resort for me.

We spend a month camping in British Columbia every summer. There's a small general store that's in the middle of nowhere, literally at a wide spot in the road. The hardware section is probably no more than 300 or 400 sq. ft., but I'm amazed at the variety of stuff they carry. I can usually find what I need, or an alternate that will work. I think it takes someone who really knows what they're doing to run a store like that.

[lowell holmes]

Get over it, they all will be out of what you you are looking for on occasions. I shop at both stores.

[Jim Becker]

There are still a few around, but it's a tough business for folks that run them to stay successful. There's one in Lambertville NJ (Finkles) that's pretty well known and still doing well. Some of them have had to adopt a similar format to the 'borg, however, just to stay competitive....larger stores, more focused selection rather than "anything you can imagine", etc.

[Bill Carey]

ABout 20 miles from me is a small town named Beaverville that has a great old hardware store called, aptly enough, Beaverville Hardware. The town at last count had 362 souls living there, but somehow this great little store survives. I do what I can by shopping there and they have a remarkable selection of "stuff". Plus I can get my Blue Bunny ice cream cone there for the ride home.

454985

[Jim Barkelew]

The best one I've been to is Jerry's in Eugene Oregon. As big as any borg with 4X the selection. My favorite example was the wall of toilet seats on display. Must have been 50 or more.

Jim

[Stan Calow]

If you want to see real old-fashioned throwback, visit the Harry J Epstein hardware store right in the heart of the Kansas City, MO downtown business district. Been there since 1933 and looks like it. All those old-fashioned nooks and crannies of hard-to-find stuff and decent new things too. They do online sales https://www.harryepstein.com but the store is a treat - even smells like an old hardware store.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

We had a great true value, but it closed. Every time I compare prices between Lowes and Home Depot, Lowes is cheaper for most of the identical items. Also when I was re-doing my old farm house, only Lowes carried pex plumbing tubing or supplies, no one else. The other reason I like the local Lowes, is their employees who hate plants. They don't get watered regularly and as soon as they look a little wilted they are marked down to nuthin. I have purchased so many shrubs and berry bushes for 10 cents on the dollar and my Mrs. has the touch to have them green and growing again in no time. We do have a local Ace with a nice well experienced local family running it, but they view themselves as more of a garden center. They have a bare selection of hardware and nearly anything is special order. Oh they will have it in no time. But I can get it delivered to the house if I shop on line. So anyway, I ordered the 7/16th brad point bit on line.

[Kev Williams]

if I want HARDWARE, I hit the C.A.L. Ranch store first. Never seen such a vast selection hardware. But they're not perfect either, about 1 in 4 trips the bin with what I need in it is empty ;)

[Jim Koepke]

Our local Ace Hardware closed a few years ago.

There is a True Value Hardware in Rainier, OR across the river. They will get my business when convenient. They have a selection of brad point bits.

There is a Wilco on this side of the Columbia river with a good hardware selection but it is a longer drive. It is actually on the other side of a different river. We live in a place where a couple rivers flow into the Columbia River.

There is also a wide spot of the road with a small fairly well stocked hardware store on the road going west from here. Stopped on the way home from the coast once and bought a couple of things there.

jtk

[Michael J Evans]

The best one I've been to is Jerry's in Eugene Oregon. As big as any borg with 4X the selection. My favorite example was the wall of toilet seats on display. Must have been 50 or more.

Jim

Yes jerry's is from my home Town very good people and store. It was originally just two guys in a small building on that original lot. I believe he sold it and it's a esop now.

[Michael J Evans]

It's funny how many people complain about losing small business but then ultimately let their wallets rule the decision. I can totally relate to needing inexpensive, but people expect, great knowledge & service, huge selection and cheap prices... It's a real hard combo to fulfill. Amazon has hit a couple of those points real well, but their employees likely can't recommend that special bolt your after or fitting for your dishwasher...

If you want local stores, buy local. Spend the extra $3 on that bag of soil, 6$ on a shovel, etc. I hate spending my hard earned cash on the same item at a higher price. But I also hate going to a store and being ignored for 45 minutes in the plumbing section or having to wait in line for 20 minutes because there is only two checkers. So I spend the extra money and let my wallet do the talking.

My local Ace is excellent, they almost always seem overstaffed, but they have almost everything you can imagine (except lumber). Wall paper steamer? Got it! Odd spring? Got it! Frying pan? They also have someone asking if you need help every couple of minutes.
To me the service and selection are worth the extra money. Even when I don't need their extra help I shop there,. because I know from working at a small business, it's expensive to keep stock that doesn't turn or have extra employee's on staff to ensure my customers have a good experience.

[Jim Koepke]

To me the service and selection are worth the extra money. Even when I don't need their extra help I shop there,. because I know from working at a small business, it's expensive to keep stock that doesn't turn or have extra employee's on staff to ensure my customers have a good experience.

Another cost is some of the local vendors tend to treat employees well and retain them for years. The employees will know more about what is in the store.

Some of the bigger stores do not want to pay to keep employees long term so they have a higher turnover.

One of the consumer electronics chains made a few mistakes. One of their big blunders was they felt their long term commissioned employees were costing them too much so they canned their long term employees to save money. It was a big mistake. Many of the customers were repeat customers and had good relationships with "their sales person." They not only lost experience sales people they lost a lot of customers.


In one day, the company fired 3,900 of
its highest-paid salespeople, with plans to replace them with
2,100 hourly associates. The move crushed employee morale
and productivity. “Anyone who was working in the store
thought, gee, if I’m too successful they’re going to fire
me, because I’ll be making too much money,” Wulf says.
“So there was no incentive anymore to take good care of the
customer.”

My preference often is to go to the smaller store where the people are happy to see me instead of seeing me as an intrusion on their time.

jtk

[Doug Dawson]

If you want to see real old-fashioned throwback, visit the Harry J Epstein hardware store right in the heart of the Kansas City, MO downtown business district. Been there since 1933 and looks like it. All those old-fashioned nooks and crannies of hard-to-find stuff and decent new things too. They do online sales https://www.harryepstein.com but the store is a treat - even smells like an old hardware store.
I’ve never been there in person, but they are a class act IMO. They are my preferred vendor for Wright mechanics tools (and another heck yeah for Wright themselves.)

[Alex Zeller]

We had a local store that had almost everything. It was one of those stores where the floor was unfinished hardwood that creaked as you walked on it. The plumbing stuff was in hand made wooden boxes and if you couldn't find something you just asked the owner and he would take you to the basement where any picker would pass out at all the stuff. But they closed because (from the rumors) he got a little too friendly with the 16 year old girl running the cash register. Not far away was a regional hardware chain that wasn't doing anywhere near the same business. One day they had a semi trailer parked in front of the store and emptied it out.

[Frederick Skelly]

We had a local store that had almost everything. It was one of those stores where the floor was unfinished hardwood that creaked as you walked on it. The plumbing stuff was in hand made wooden boxes and if you couldn't find something you just asked the owner and he would take you to the basement where any picker would pass out at all the stuff.

We had one of those when I grew up, unfinished wood floor and all. He even sold shotgun shells.
Long gone.....

[Lee DeRaud]

The smaller the store, the more likely that the worker bees know exactly where the item you want would be if they carried it.

[Jerome Stanek]

I have an old hardware store near me that has been in business for longer then I can remember I think it says open since 1933 they still have one of those ladders that have the wheels on a track and floor. The floor is well worn and the bins are old oak. They carry stuff you could never find in a box store.

[Roger Feeley]

Here in Falls Church, VA, we have Browns Hardware. It's associated with True Value but it definitely has that local vibe. The owner, Hugh Brown, passed away a few years ago and he left a majority of the store to a trust to benefit the employees in hopes that it would continue. I notice that a few employees come and go but there's a core that have worked there as long as I've lived here. I don't always find what I need at Browns but you can bet that I try there first.

[Roger Feeley]

Sometimes it just hard to find folks that know the inventory. I remember the Radio Shack in Topeka KS where I grew up was run by ham radio enthusiasts who had built their own radio equipment. They knew their stuff and were happy to explain things. Towards the end, I was in a Radio Shack in Overland Park, KS and a guy there tried to explain to me how many ohms were in a milliwatt.

[Jim Koepke]

It is hard to find someone who wants to put in the time and effort to do what is needed to run a hardware emporium like we knew 50 years ago.

One of my favorite hardware stores to stop in has been for sale for years. They have many products no longer available on display including an early Stanley #45.

https://www.dunsmuirhardware.org/

The store is said to be profitable. There just aren't a lot of people who want to live in the rural mountain area of Northern California.

Looks like they had a bout with the covid there > https://www.mtshastanews.com/story/news/2021/02/09/dunsmuir-hardware-open-again-after-owners-covid/4450358001/

Something for an ambitious youngster.

jtk

[Ronald Blue]

If you want to see real old-fashioned throwback, visit the Harry J Epstein hardware store right in the heart of the Kansas City, MO downtown business district. Been there since 1933 and looks like it. All those old-fashioned nooks and crannies of hard-to-find stuff and decent new things too. They do online sales https://www.harryepstein.com but the store is a treat - even smells like an old hardware store.

I haven't been there but I was in a pinch last year for a fitting when working down there and was steered to Strasser True Value Hardware on Southwest Blvd. I was impressed with it. Lot's of inventory. I was in a rush so I didn't have time to browse.

Locally we have a lumber yard that sells a good amount of hardware as well. They are friendly and helpful. I use them especially if I want it delivered. About 12 miles away is a farm/hardware store that is pretty amazing. They don't have a much in the way of woodworking only items but they have a huge selection of general hardware. It's not fancy and you may have to blow the dust off things but they are always friendly, helpful, and enjoyable to do business with. If I want to visit a big box store I have a 40 minute drive to go to the orange, blue, or green stores.

[Jim Becker]

One of our local True Value stores (independently owned, but "brand" supported) has a pretty good hardware selection including metric fasteners. I go there when it's convenient. They are not a good source for paint, hard-core electrical/plumbing, etc., but do have common items. Another local independent lumber yard is definitely the go-to for actual construction lumber, etc. The quality is excellent. They have a much larger selection of hardware than the TV/ACE store(s) and also handle Benjamin Moore finish products. And they load or help load lumber, etc.

[Adam Grund]

There’s a small hardware store about 10 min from me that has an amazing selection of hardware. The hardware section isn’t all that big, but they sure cram a lot of product in a couple aisles. I really try to make them my first stop, but it’s 10 min out of the way to then go on to big box store if they don’t have something for plumbing or a tool, so I use my judgement depending on the project. My usual go to is ace and Home Depot for the big stuff
Then about 30-40 min away I have Hartville Hardware (Tool), but it’s only special trips I make out there. Too long of a drive for the weekend project.

[Rod Sheridan]

If you want to see real old-fashioned throwback, visit the Harry J Epstein hardware store right in the heart of the Kansas City, MO downtown business district. Been there since 1933 and looks like it. All those old-fashioned nooks and crannies of hard-to-find stuff and decent new things too. They do online sales https://www.harryepstein.com but the store is a treat - even smells like an old hardware store.

Stan, that reminds me of Aikenhead's in downtown Toronto, several floors (strip hardwood and creaky) filled with everything you needed.
Fasteners were in a huge cabinet with wood drawers, buy a handful of screws or nails, weighed on a scale and put in a paper bag.

Our first BORG in Toronto was named Aikenhead's, they bought the name from the family, and eventually it became Home Depot.

I sure miss the real Aikenhead's........Rod.

[Myk Rian]

My fave hdwr stores are a local Rural King, and a store up at the tip-top of the Michigan thumb, Port Austin Hardware.
That place will boggle the mind. They have everything hardware.

[Jerome Stanek]

I am fortunate to have 5 very good hardware stores within an hour of me. We have Hartville hardware, Kiem lumber, Medina Hardware and McMaster Carr.

[Lee DeRaud]

I am fortunate to have 5 very good hardware stores within an hour of me. We have Hartville hardware, Kiem lumber, Medina Hardware and McMaster Carr.Calling McMaster Carr a "hardware store" is like calling Jeff Bezos a "small business owner". :)

(Not that that's a bad thing, mind you: I'm close enough to their SoCal warehouse that pretty much everything is next-day delivery.)

[Jim Becker]

LOL, yea, McMaster Carr is certainly the king of "hardware" relative to selection. If they don't have it, it's probably something pretty darn unusual.

[Brian Holcombe]

I use McMaster often, I’ve all but stopped using Amazon and typically just go direct to the retailer selling whatever product I’m looking for.

I like how easily I can search for things on McMaster, it’s intuitive.

I also use MSC on occasion, they are fine and carry some brands that McMaster doesn’t.

[Stephen Rosenthal]

It is hard to find someone who wants to put in the time and effort to do what is needed to run a hardware emporium like we knew 50 years ago.

One of my favorite hardware stores to stop in has been for sale for years. They have many products no longer available on display including an early Stanley #45.

https://www.dunsmuirhardware.org/

The store is said to be profitable. There just aren't a lot of people who want to live in the rural mountain area of Northern California.

Looks like they had a bout with the covid there > https://www.mtshastanews.com/story/news/2021/02/09/dunsmuir-hardware-open-again-after-owners-covid/4450358001/

Something for an ambitious youngster.

jtk

Dunsmuir is a lovely old railroad town. Been there a number of times. An acquaintance had a very good Italian restaurant there but sold it. Tough business. If I was 30-40 years younger I’d consider buying that hardware store. There are worse ways of passing the years and earning a living. Ah, the stuff of youthful dreams.

[Ole Anderson]

I feel bad for those that lost their business due to the influx of the big box stores, but I don't miss them, I have moved on. Most of the really good mom and pop hardware stores are still in my area. I am as likely to go to one of my local Ace stores 3 miles away as HD or Lowes which are 5 miles further, but on my frequently travelled route.

[Robert Engel]

The mom and pop's are also part of the global market like everything else. With overhead and purchasing power, some of them simply can't compete. They survive on loyal customers who prefer not to patronize big corps and willing to pay more.

I remember needing some PVC fittings went to my local Ace no joke they were 5X the price of HD. I mean they could be buying their stock from HD!!!

However, the lumber is fairly competitive, and considering you drive through and they load, worth the little extra cost.

[Jim Koepke]

I remember needing some PVC fittings went to my local Ace no joke they were 5X the price of HD. I mean they could be buying their stock from HD!!!

My tendency is to mention this to either the oldest employee or whoever looks to be a manager. Often at the local ACE Hardware before it closed they could adjust the price.

jtk