Helical head leaving tracks

[Mark Gibney]

My four month old Byrd head in my PM 100 planer today started to leave tracks on the surface of the material.

The first photo has pencil arrows to show the tracks.
The are not ridges, such as I would get from a straight knife with a nick. The level goes up maybe a few thousandths and stays smooth until the next rise.

I cannot find any possible cause by checking the knives. Nothing seems to have come loose, nothing seems to be misaligned.

Any ideas on what's going on?

Thanks, Mark 454573 454574

[Cary Falk]

Not sure what is going on if it wasn't there when you first installed. I would take out all of the knives, clean the seats and retorque them all down and see if it goes away. My Byrd had issues from the git go and this solved my issues.

[Rod Sheridan]

Not sure what is going on if it wasn't there when you first installed. I would take out all of the knives, clean the seats and retorque them all down and see if it goes away. My Byrd had issues from the git go and this solved my issues.

To add to what Cary said, use a torque screwdriver when tightening the insert bolts to the manufacturers specification, that's very important.............Regards, Rod

[Cary Falk]

I used the Harbor Freight 1/4" drive inch-lb torque wrench($20) without issue. The spec is 45 inch-lbs if I recall.

[Patrick Kane]

Hey Mark, can you take a photo in raking light? I believe you are describing what is pretty common with the byrd design. The cutter is radiused and takes a shallow scoop. My 20" byrd has left valleys and ridges from day one. It is pretty annoying and one of a laundry list of reasons i dislike byrd heads. I can take a photo later and post it to see if it looks like what you experienced.

[Joe Cowan]

I have that issue occasionally but not always. It is strange, as it seems to show up randomly. Maybe some hardness of wood it shows up more in?

[Mark Gibney]

Cary, Rod - good idea, I'll try that but won't have time until this coming week.

Patrick, I will take some better photos and I'm curious to see yours too. Thanks. Do you have helical heads in addition to the Byrd, and does this ever happen?

Joe, random? Yikes! that's disappointing to hear. I figured I could really rely on a low-tear out repeatable surface.

[Cary Falk]

I have a grizzly head in my planer and never had this problem. This to me does not look like the scallops that Patrick is referring to. I get those but you can't feel them and only see them in certain light. The faster I feed wood through the jointer the more pronounced they are. It is no different then straight blades. I run my planer on the slowest feed speed. After cleaning my Byrd head I have had zero issues. I think I need to rotate the cutters after probably 8 years because it looks like I finally have a couple of nicks

[Prashun Patel]

I get that too on my helical JP. I thought I needed to rotate the cutters - which I still haven’t done.

I end up hand jointing or sanding stuff anyway to get rid of the ripples. So this never bothered me.

[Andrew Hughes]

I also get rows or grooves from planer with a bryd head. Mostly on soft woods there’s always a trade off its quieter and less tear back on difficult woods. But you cannot sharpen the carbide as keen as high speed steel.
Great for some boards not so great for others.
To strengthen my point and ward off the attack’s
Heres a pic of port orford cedar with bryd cut and a pic of the knife cut.

[Mikail Khan]

The Byrd cutters have a small radius. You will get ripples. Grizzly inserts are straight.

MK

[Christopher Glanton]

I was thinking up upgrading my Dewalt DW735 to the Byrd, why on earth didn't they make it straight? Seems spending $500 for a cutter head should give you a perfectly planed piece of wood.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I am not familiar with that planer. Is is multi-speed or does it just have one feed speed?

[Patrick Kane]

I also get rows or grooves from planer with a bryd head. Mostly on soft woods there’s always a trade off its quieter and less tear back on difficult woods. But you cannot sharpen the carbide as keen as high speed steel.
Great for some boards not so great for others.
To strengthen my point and ward off the attack’s
Heres a pic of port orford cedar with bryd cut and a pic of the knife cut.

Andrew's first photo is exactly what i experience on every single board. You can definitely feel these ridges/scallops. If i set a hand plane to take a very light shaving, it will ride the ridge tops and only peel off a shaving the width of the ridge. Im such a bad person to talk about byrd heads, i think they are borderline trash. I have a tersa head on another machine that is slightly more expensive to keep sharp knives in, but the results are so much better.

[Alex Zeller]

My planer will make marks like that when I get a wood shaving or two stuck on the bottom of the pressure bar. My dust collector is a little on the small side for my planer. If I start to see marks like that then I have to stop and empty the DC. If all the inserts are tight and they were working fine before then I doubt that's where your problem is.

[Tom Bussey]

I have delt with carbid insert cutters all of my 50 some years of metal working life and I can say that you can really see and feel the imperfections derived from the cutters. So here it goes.

When using an inserted cutter of any shape or form there are always tracks. If you take two blocks that have dead sharp corners and put them side to side, your finger can feel the difference of 2 ten thousandths of an inch difference in height. That is read .0002


Modern Maching (CNC) operates from lead screws ( Ball lead screws and nuts on the good ones to be exact) and servo motors (again on the good ones) As good as they are and as nice a job as they to it is still imposible to get every pocked exactly perfact and the same..If you believe that can be done then I want you to know that I own the Brocklyn Bridge and it is for sale. If one uses a proflometer ( Surface roughness gage) they will find out the the surface actually looks like bucky beaver chewed it off. Straight knives give a flatter surface.

Having said that here are some things I would check. Are there any burrs, rolled edges or peened surfaces to the pocket in question. I have an air compresser and I blow out every pocket to makee sure the pocket is free from debree. I have cateracts and sometimes it is hard to see anything in the pocket and I might think it is clean only to have to come back and use air to get it right. Inserts are sintered ( powered metalergy) and the mold may not have filled all the way.Take a micromered and check all 4 sides of the insert. A Dial caliper is not accurate enough. It there is a difference in readings this can be your problem. If you are rotating the insert clean the pocket clean the insert put the insert in the pocket wiggle it to make sure it is seated. Tighten the screw, loosen and retighten the screw. You can overtighten screws and you can get bolt strech, which end up as a looser insert.

And if you are replacinging an insert then the inserts may be from two different manufacturiers and that can show up in the finish.

I would first check the pocket, expecially if it is proud now and it wasn't before. No two matters can occupoy the same space at the same time so overtightening the screws will not help. They only need to be tight enough to keep the insert in place and to keep it from lifting during the cut.

And lastly you are going to have to use a smoother,sand or scrape the surface anyway so a little imperfection isn't a real killer. MY disclaimer, inserted cutter heads are great, it is easier to change an insert than a whole blade.If you have one good for you. They are just not worth the extra $300 to $500 to me.

I hope this helps.

[Joe Jensen]

Back to the original poster's question, those look like scratches from either the bed or pressure bar. Could have happened if some grit were embedded in a board. I'd check the pressure bar and the bed. (I think your arrows are pointing at the long thin scratch marks and not the scallops). Also, I've had a Byrd head in a PM100 for over 10 years. Love it. And to Tom's post, the scallops are super shallow and IMHO no more an issue that the marks a straight knife cutter head leaves. I've never gone from a power planer to finish ever. So why do the scallops matter? Look close at the marks a straight knife leaves.

[Jay Gargiulo]

The OP's marks look like what happens when I've rotated the inserts and failed to properly seat one (or two) of them. I've never had that happen in the course or normal use of the machine but I suppose its possible that fine debris could build up under a couple of the inserts and lift them enough to cut ridges like that.

I would run a board of softwood or even MDF straight up against the edge of the bed nearest the imperfections and take a very shallow cut. Use the marks on that piece of material to find the inserts in question. The helical design means that only a few inserts will have their corners aligned with the marks. It might be worth loosening and rotating all that could be responsible while you're in there. You can also compare it to the pressure bar/feed rollers to see if there are any burrs or nicks on them like others have suggested. I don't think the scratch would be on the bed side as the OP is seeing these marks on the side of the board that has just been cut.

[David Utterback]

I have the same problem occasionally. I re-run the board at a slightly different feed angle without changing the height setting to remove the ridges.