I can't get my mind off of DC questions!

[Jim O'Dell]

Can you tell I'm bored with nothing to do? :rolleyes: I've been researching ducting parts trying to line up what I will need to buy, along with the 2 filters I have yet to order. I will have to build or at least modify the existing dust collection on my Ridgid TS as the add-on piece is for a 2 1/2" shop vac hookup. I think I can modify it for at least a 5" port, and have 2" hose going to a future over arm pickup, probably home built. Hopefully this year I will add a Jointer to the mix of tools, and by early to middle of next year a new cabinet saw. Being the price concious guy that I am, ( I actually have a lot more Scottish blood in my veins that Irish:rolleyes: ) I have been eyeballing the Grizzly 1023SL. I'd love to have the General 650 or a PM 66 but the prices are a little steep for me. I haven't ruled out the Bridgewood BW-10LTS, or the Delta Uni (especially with the reported great price on the X5 at 1441.00 delivered if I remember correctly!!) And if a good used saw came up at the right time at the right price, I'd be happy with that as well.
So back to DC hookups. All of the current models, except the Delta, have the port on the left side of the cabinet under the motor cover. The Uni is at the back of the cabinet. You wouldn't want a 5" or 6" duct coming down from the ceiling on the business side of the saw, which means it needs to be on the right side. Why have a port on the opposite side of the saw? :confused: :confused: At least the Delta makes a little more sense being at the back. Both of these designs automatically creates an increase in resistance for the ducting to the TS.
How do you gals and guys do this?? Is there something I'm not seeing? Can the factory port be plugged and a new one cut into the cabinet? The saws with a sloping floor built in toward the factory port would take major modification that would probably not be worthwhile unless these are bolted in, but I'm guessing they are spot welded, no? I guess on the models with the sloping floor, the duct could be a wide mouth retangular A/C piece like I would use for a floor sweep, entering that bottom panel from underneath then ported back to the right.
So how do you accomplish the hook up in your shop? No fair if you use a portable unit!!!:D :D :D These are the things that bug me and keep me from going to sleep at night! Hope everyone is having a great weekend!! I'm going to go fix me a Dr. Pepper freeze and watch the rest of the Maverick game. Jim.

edit Pictures of your set up would help this visually oriented brain of mine!

[Allan Johanson]

Piece of cake, Jim. I used an HVAC end boot with a piece of flex hose to make the elbow and some spiral pipe running over to the right side of the saw. This is for my left tilt Unisaw.

If you tried to change the internal ramp of the Unisaw, it might interfere with the motor. You've got to watch that.

Cheers,

Allan

[Jim O'Dell]

That's my whole hidden meaning here. Why don't the manufacturers put the port on the right side? There's not much to be done with the rear exiting port. There will be one 90 degree turn no matter what. On the left exiting port, I think I could use a duct piece, only have the mounting part retangular and oriented sideways mounted into the dust ramp from underneath, with it's port pointed to the right side to exit the saw, thus cutting the turn in the piping. I guess the duct fitting is a 90 degree turn of sorts, but it would cut down on a lot of the resistance that has to be added. I know I'm splitting hairs somewhat, but this is something that wouldn't cost the manufacturer a penny more to do the effecient way. Oh and I'd pay $10.00 more for the saw to come with a 6" port.
Thanks for the picture, Allan. That's exactly what my brain needs to see. Any other examples out there???? Jim.

[Rob Will]

Jim,
I don't have my saw set up (yet) but my new shop is under construction. In a related thread, I am asking whether or not to put a dust port in the floor. Some of the same questions apply to what I am trying to figure out.
Likewise, my layout would be easier if the saw had a right side DC port.
Rob

[Jim Becker]

Jim, sometimes things are just the way they are, despite logic being for something different. It would have been no issue to put the port on the back or right side on a Left-tilt saw if they wanted to. The slope of the floor is slight enough that it wouldn't have interfered with the motor tilt (at least in my Jet LT cabinet saw) and it would have been more convenient. My setup is similar to Allan's outside of the fact that I used the stock port rather than cutting the cabinet and retrofitting a boot.

[Scott Parks]

I'm going out on a limb here, but my guess is the slope is a bit gimmicky. If you put in your own port on the right side, and move enough air, you'll suck up most of the dust anyway? Right?

[Bob Dodge]

Hi Jim,

I wouldn't worry at all about the saw's outlet, especially with the Delta. The only time you want to be concerned is when optimizing your hook-up. Sure' it's best to avoid unnecessary use of elbows, but they're a fact of life with any dc system. They become a bit more important when the dc is marginal, but that's it.

The dust-ramp in the UniSaw, is very effective. I presume the reason the exhaust-port is at the back, has to do with the swing of the motor when tilting the blade. I haven't looked that closely at my Uni. I have a left-tilt Ltd. Ed. and the dust collection is wonderful. I even use the 4" hood that came with my saw. I thought I'd replace that when I got the saw, but it worked so well, I decided to stay with it.

The hood is nicely tapered, and the mouth is roughly 8.5" x 3.5". Entry-loss for a hood like that should be minimal. In cross-sectional area, that mouth is roughly equivalent to a 6" pipe. Slightly larger actually.

I think people sometimes agonize way too much over "theoretical dc perfection" and "Max" airflow. Whether that 4" branch is pulling 450 or 525 cfm, won't matter a hill of beans. The 4" pipe only needs 350 cfm to get the 4000 fpm velocity it requires. Combine that with a decent overarm blade-cover, and you'll never look back.

If your dc can only handle a 5" drop to the saw, just use a 5x4x3 wye, and send a 4" branch to the base, and a 3" branch to the OABC.(Overarm blade-cover) Depending on how low that wye is on the drop-pipe, you can also go with a 5x4x4 wye, and run a 4" flex pipe toward the OABC, then reduce to 3" at an appropriate location. The Excalibur for example, has a 4" connection at tha back of the "boom", but the internal porting and flex-hose to the hood, is 3". That's a great unit. Excellant airflow, very solid construction.

Regarding the Uni, there's a lot more to a saw than good dust collection. The Uni's is great, but do a test-cut with a Uni if possible. Take a look at the quality of cut results on end-grain. Work the handles, slide the mitre-gauge and look for slop (you'll find none), adjust the blade-height and tilt, try the handle locks, check-out the trunnions and yoke and cradle assembly, work that fence, pay attention to the cursor for readability and parallax-error accuracy, look at how easy it is to square the fence, etc. It's one heck of a good saw.

Even the blade that came with mine shocked me. Normally, I use a dedicated purpose blade. The one that came with the saw was a Delta combination blade. I presumed that I'd simply mount that blade on my old saw, to resell it. Luckily, before i did that, I gave that combo-blade a whirl, and did a quick test-cut on a piece of walnut. On end-grain, the cut quality was amaaazing. Almost as good as a finishing blade. I was VERY surprised. Turns out that this blade, etched "Delta Industrial", is manufactured by Leitz. Sure changed my opinion on combo blades in a hurry. I'm sure a lot of that cut-quality came from the flange-faced arbor as well as the vibration-free drive-train. Just a great saw. Not quite as nice as the General, especially where the extension-tables are concerned, but an excellant choice none-the-less.

Bob

[Jim Becker]

I'm going out on a limb here, but my guess is the slope is a bit gimmicky. If you put in your own port on the right side, and move enough air, you'll suck up most of the dust anyway? Right?

Theoretically, if you are moving enough air, yes, it wouldn't matter. But in "real life" having the slope towards the port will help direct the air flow a little better. The "far corners" will also not end up as prone to being "dead zones" for said air flow. When I look inside my saw, I don't think it would be really hard to switch around the floor slope direction, frankly, so if I wanted to retrofit it, I likely could. I doubt I'll go to that trouble, however, at this point.

[Jim O'Dell]

Most of us are reluctant to change things that are working well, even if there "might" be some advantages. BUT, if you were getting a new Cabinet saw in, and putting it together, would you make the modifications at that time??? I think that I would, not sure though. It would be hard to cut into a new machine before I ever saw it run. The prudent thing would be to do some cutting on it first to make sure it didn't have a problem that would require it to be returned.
I get funny like this at times, and think that everything has to be to the 110 percentile.
After returning from the dog show today, I went ahead and moved my TS and DP to the shop and got them out of the garage. It helped me visualize where the ducting will go, and just how many fittings I'm going to need. Over twice the number I had thought playing with it on paper. I may just have to borrow Frank's idea and make a 3D mock up before purchasing anything!! I'm planning on not ducting the DP. I don't want metal shavings going through the cyclone. I'll put a floor sweep at the other end of that wall where the jointer and router table will hook up to sweep the wood dust only to be picked up, and use the dust pan on anything that might have metal in it. Jim.

[Jim Becker]

Jim, I certainly would put a new machine through its paces before making any physical modifications... ;)

[Allan Johanson]

I try to avoid hacking up tools for DC ports. Although it might look like I cut up my Unisaw, I'm simply using a homemade port over the existing rectangular hole in my saw. I'm even using the factory mounting points! Delta wanted $30 (CAN $) for the piece of metal and I made my own for much less, plus sized the way I want.

Another issue has to do with warranty stuff. I wouldn't want to try making a claim with a tool that has been cut up with a jigsaw. :eek:

Cheers,

Allan