Best way to produce proper sized engineered wood flooring

[Alan Lightstone]

Well, I know this sounds crazy, and it is the first time any of the flooring places around here have heard this, but here's my tale of woe, and I would really like some advice as to the best way forward.

We had some water damage to a beautiful Brazilian Teak (Cumaru) engineered wood floor in one of the rooms in our house. The entire floor has the same flooring, so it really needs to be replaced with identical or identical looking boards. Insurance company has been useless in this, doesn't want to pay, but that's another story.

The flooring is very polychromatic / heterogenous in its darkness and grain, which should help some.

The present flooring is 5" wide and 1/2" thick engineered wood.

Now here's the bizarre problem. The local company that sold us the flooring for the entire house has a VERY ample supply of these boards. But for whatever bizarre reason, they are now all 4-3/4", not 5" width, which the entire house is. So after having 6 boxes delivered, I returned it all. They have sold tons of it to unsuspecting people, who expected 5" boards but only got 4-3/4", but if you are doing an entire room or rooms, nobody notices. But those boards are useless to me.

I have tried every company I can find nationally to obtain 5" Brazilian Teak engineered hardwood floors, and nobody has them. They are all 4-3/4" thick, and being marketed as 5".

I can get beautifully matching 5" SOLID Brazilian Teak boards which are 3/4" thick, but I'd imagine wood movement would make these buckle at some point. I can also get 5-1/4" Brazilian Teak engineered hardwood boards, which I would have to rip down.

These are the choices I see now.

1.) Rip down the 5-1/4" boards to 5" on my cabinet saw, and rout new grooves on that side (they are tongue and groove boards). I will need to add a tiny microbevel to one side, but that should be doable.

2.) Buy a box of that 5" solid wood flooring, and resaw about 1/8" off the top, and then take a piece of unmatched but correct sized engineered hardwood flooring and with my wide belt sander remove 1/8" off the top of that, and veneer the surface of the solid board to the engineered board. In other words, make my own engineered hardwood floor. I wouldn't have to rout these.

I have digital readouts on my router table, and wide belt sander (need to replace the one on my table saw), so I should be able to get accurate and repeatable results.

The floor will need to be glued down, so that's not an issue. And I'll only need to do this to maybe 6-7 long boards.

Which of those two options seems best? Any other thoughts?

[Jim Becker]

Alan, I'd go with option one and buy the oversized, cut down and edge mill. It's the best available option that provides the same level of stability as existing while matching exactly.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I think you have another option, remove as much as needed to make he 1/4" narrower product appear fine, likely a whole room. Actually the insurance company adjuster would probably have an easier time wrapping his head around that option.

If it's not much sq footage, making your own is a viable option. You'll have to deal with the mismatched finish issue though, which is sometimes a serious pain.

[Alan Lightstone]

I think you have another option, remove as much as needed to make he 1/4" narrower product appear fine, likely a whole room. Actually the insurance company adjuster would probably have an easier time wrapping his head around that option.

If it's not much sq footage, making your own is a viable option. You'll have to deal with the mismatched finish issue though, which is sometimes a serious pain.

It would be a whole floor. About 2000 sq ft. Yes, that would look best, but would involve removing multiple cabinets, the entire kitchen, and they needed almost a jackhammer to remove the present flooring that is glued to the cement very well. Cost estimate was over $100K!!!!

The mismatched finish has been an issue with several samples I had to eliminate. Gloss levels were not the same. The solid wood sample was a perfect match. The 5-1/4" sample was slightly more yellow, but with the polychromatic floor it would still work, and gloss seemed a good match.

Oy, what a mess...

[Steve Rozmiarek]

It would be a whole floor. About 2000 sq ft. Yes, that would look best, but would involve removing multiple cabinets, the entire kitchen, and they needed almost a jackhammer to remove the present flooring that is glued to the cement very well. Cost estimate was over $100K!!!!

Great location for the water damage to happen, seems like that's always the case. Lol, I can imagine that conversation with the adjuster! Is this a slab below grade? I'd honestly be surprised if the insurance company covers any of it if it's glued down hardwood below grade.

[Jim Becker]

Great location for the water damage to happen, seems like that's always the case. Lol, I can imagine that conversation with the adjuster! Is this a slab below grade? I'd honestly be surprised if the insurance company covers any of it if it's glued down hardwood below grade.
In general, there's no below grade in Florida. Slabs are the norm. It does sound like the level of effort for this fix is substantial, however!

[Alan Lightstone]

It's on a second floor, 19 feet above grade, at a total of 26 foot elevation.

If I get flood water up there, my entire county would be below water. The house was specifically built to withstand Cat 5 hurricane (if anyone actually believes that...)

[Bill Dufour]

I thought the theory was that engineered wood did not move with moisture changes and could even be flooded for a short time and stay intact. I guess that is another lie. You may have better luck searching for 127mm or I would guess it is really 12.5cm wood?
Bill D.

[Alan Lightstone]

I thought the theory was that engineered wood did not move with moisture changes and could even be flooded for a short time and stay intact. I guess that is another lie. You may have better luck searching for 127mm or I would guess it is really 12.5cm wood?
Bill D.

It's the solid wood boards moving that I'm concerned about. In other words, I can't just take the 3/4" solid wood boards and sand them down to 1/2" and use them next to the engineered boards.

[Paul F Franklin]

Might want to give Hosking Hardwoods a call if you haven't tried them. No affiliation, but they've helped me with a few odd needs in the past.

[Jim Barstow]

I’d be really careful of solid cumaru. We built a deck 12 years ago and wanted to use ipe but it wasn’t available locally. The local suppliers sold cumaru and claimed it had the same properties. (I suspect that “cumaru” is actually a catch all for a collection of species; who knows what it really was). That was a huge mistake since its width change from summer to winter is huge. The gap between boards is large in the summer but non-existent in winter so water pools on the surface during winter storms. I’d be very wary of using a mix of solid and engineered wood on a floor where wood movement is restricted.

I’d also go after your insurance company. Take to a lawyer if necessary. Insurance companies aren’t use to policy holders exerting their rights. Our house was damaged during the 1991 Oakland hills fire and parts of the original, beautiful 6” wide quartersawn white oak floors needed to be refinished. The floor refinisher said that there wasn’t sufficient thickness remaining and recommended replacing the entire floor so it would match. Took some haggling but they paid for a brand new 6” solid wood quartersawn white oak floor.

[Alan Lightstone]

I’d be really careful of solid cumaru. We built a deck 12 years ago and wanted to use ipe but it wasn’t available locally. The local suppliers sold cumaru and claimed it had the same properties. (I suspect that “cumaru” is actually a catch all for a collection of species; who knows what it really was). That was a huge mistake since its width change from summer to winter is huge. The gap between boards is large in the summer but non-existent in winter so water pools on the surface during winter storms. I’d be very wary of using a mix of solid and engineered wood on a floor where wood movement is restricted.

I’d also go after your insurance company. Take to a lawyer if necessary. Insurance companies aren’t use to policy holders exerting their rights. Our house was damaged during the 1991 Oakland hills fire and parts of the original, beautiful 6” wide quartersawn white oak floors needed to be refinished. The floor refinisher said that there wasn’t sufficient thickness remaining and recommended replacing the entire floor so it would match. Took some haggling but they paid for a brand new 6” solid wood quartersawn white oak floor.

Would expansion of the cumaru (and yes, I agree, it's a catch-all name for multiple species) be an issue for a 1/8" veneer glued to a stable engineered wood base? This is in Florida, so humidity swings can be huge.

And yes, I'm suing the insurance company.

[Alan Lightstone]

Might want to give Hosking Hardwoods a call if you haven't tried them. No affiliation, but they've helped me with a few odd needs in the past.

I looked on their website, and they do have 5" Brazilian Teak engineered hardwood, but the company its from I looked at a sample of, and it's a poor match gloss-wise. Color a little off too.

Pity, sounded promising.

[Jim Barstow]

I’m not a an expert wood engineer but I would suspect a 1/8” thick piece would “want” to expand the same amount as a 3/4” piece. The difference would be in the force generated. Being well glued to stable plywood might be sufficient to counteract that force but I’m not sure. (I’m the kind of person who would test it via experiment...). What I do know is that I’ve never seen wood with that extreme variation over the seasons. Keep in mind, however, that this was a deck exposed to rain so just humidity might not cause as much of an issue.

Insurance companies are bullies. During the Oakland fire, they started playing hardball but quickly realized that the victim pool was made up of highly educated professionals not used to being bullied and who knew how the system worked. They quickly retreated.

[Eric Schmid]

The easiest route seems to be to get the 5 1/4” and rip it down. What seems like the downside of this option?

You’re likely going to need to modify some of the grooves to stitch the new flooring in anyway. The bottom of the groove gets removed where needed.

[Alan Lightstone]

The easiest route seems to be to get the 5 1/4” and rip it down. What seems like the downside of this option?

You’re likely going to need to modify some of the grooves to stitch the new flooring in anyway. The bottom of the groove gets removed where needed.
Not much downside. Just without my DRO on the SawStop, I'll need to dial in the width precisely. Not exactly rocket science as the world has done plenty of cutting on cabinet saws without DROs.

The solid wood is a perfect match, but that may be a secondary concern here. So long as the gloss level is right, and the boards are not too yellow or too red, it should work.

[Mark Hennebury]

If precise width is a concern on you table saw you can use a router table or shaper setup.
You can cut the profile of the tongue or groove at the same time.
You would need to put a feather-board, wheel hold-down, or ideally use a power feeder on top.
If you have a power feeder, you can easily and safely do climb-cutting, so no splintering, nice clean finish.
It's easy to set and adjust the width accurately by tapping the clamped fence board. Use a short fence, it's more accurate.
You need to a relief chamfer on the outfeed side of the the pressure bar, so that it rides up over the incoming board.


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[Alan Lightstone]

If precise width is a concern on you table saw you can use a router table or shaper setup.
You can cut the profile of the tongue or groove at the same time.
You would need to put a feather-board, wheel hold-down, or ideally use a power feeder on top.
If you have a power feeder, you can easily and safely do climb-cutting, so no splintering, nice clean finish.
It's easy to set and adjust the width accurately by tapping the clamped fence board. Use a short fence, it's more accurate.
You need to a relief chamfer on the outfeed side of the the pressure bar, so that it rides up over the incoming board.


454366 454368

Very interesting, Mark. Never seen a setup like that before. Size limitations on my router table mat preclude it, but I may put together a trial setup to try it. Any way I look at it, I'm going to have to rout a deeper groove in a few 7' long pieces, which may be challenging due to space in my workshop, but needs to be done.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

In general, there's no below grade in Florida. Slabs are the norm. It does sound like the level of effort for this fix is substantial, however!

I missed the Florida location, yep you are correct!

[Jim Becker]

I missed the Florida location, yep you are correct!

I think one might be able to find a basement "occasionally" up in the foothills of central Florida but that would be a very rare thing. I also forgot that the OP's house's living space is elevated as much of the newer construction in coastal areas went that way to help deal with storm surges. It's a different world "down there" for sure!

[Alan Lightstone]

So, here's the approach I used. Finding no actual 5" Cumaru flooring that even remotely matched, I took the above advice and took some 5-1/4" engineering flooring that I was able to rip down to appropriate size, and then rout the proper groove with a slot bit in my router table. Having the Ready2Rout so that I could dial it in to the 0.01 inch really did help.

Hopefully will get the boards installed soon, and see how this goes. Have my fingers crossed.

[Alan Lightstone]

I think one might be able to find a basement "occasionally" up in the foothills of central Florida but that would be a very rare thing. I also forgot that the OP's house's living space is elevated as much of the newer construction in coastal areas went that way to help deal with storm surges. It's a different world "down there" for sure!

Strangely, two of the hospitals I used to work at in St. Petersburg have basements (they are across the street from each other, in a relatively high part of town - which doesn't say much in Florida). The first time someone told me to go down to pharmacy in the basement, I thought they were playing a prank on me. I've never heard of a residence with one in the state, though.