First hand tool project. A few questions.

[Bryan Hall]

New to hand tools, and not a very experienced woodworker to be honest.

Building my first workbench, not expecting it to be perfect, but I could definitely use a few tips since I'm learning to use handplanes at the same time.

First off the bench is 7' long, 25" wide, 2-1/4 inch thick. Pacific coast maple.

I built 2 12.5" wide boards and then ran them through the planer after initial glue up. In hindsite 3 8" pieces would have been better so I could use the 8" jointer on them, but this is meant to be a learning process anyways.

After the 2nd glue up was complete I switched to hand planes. I was able to pick up a set of stanley planes for $50, new from the store. I'm a big believer in getting good tools, but $50 for a set to learn a few things on seemed exceptionally reasonable.
62, low angle jack
60-1/2, low angle block
9-1/2, block
4, smoothing.

Still learning to sharpen and need to buy the right tools to sharpen them, so any results are based on straight out of the box which I know isn't ideal.

I started with the jack and it did great, except for bad tear out on a few boards. Some of it was figure, some if it I think was grain direction. I've never had to think much about grain direction before. When using hand tools do I need to plan ahead and glue all boards with the same grain direction?

Next I switched to the smoothing plane. This didn't go well. I got online and ordered a book, watched a bunch of videos, learned a few things, realized this probably wasn't the next plane to use.

Switched to the 60-1/2 low angle block. While this worked great, it was exhausting using a block plane on such a large surface. I assume this is also not ideal, but it's what I had in the moment.

After that I went back to the smoothing plane. I spent a good amount of time fiddling with it, but couldn't get it to work when setup as recommended. The chip breaker seemed to have a gap between it and the iron. As a result, the chip breaker would clog after a single pass. I had to move the breaker 1/4 inch back from the edge of the iron to be able to make cuts without clogging. Do I need to plan to grind down the breaker so it sits flush on the iron? Something just doesn't seem right about it to me. That being said, I was getting far better results than before, I just assume I'm still not getting the most out of the tool. Tips?

Last, I started out trying to make 7' long continuous passes with the smoothing plane to get the final finish. This seemed ridiculous, and I assume there is a better way. I switched to doing arm length passes for one section of the board and then slowly worked my way to the end, basically breaking the board up into 2'x2' sections and working my way along. This seemed better, but can anyone tell me, or direct me to info on how to use a plane to work a larger object like this?

All the help is greatly appreciated.

I'll also say, despite the fact that I can tell I have no clue what I'm doing... I absolutely love the experience of the hand plane over doing everything with power tools. I'm completely sold on it.

Last, any tips on the ideal set of planes to have for small furniture building would be great. I make simple gifts for family and friends, nightstands, coffee tables, benches.

[Jim Matthews]

I recommend a browse of Wood by Wright YouTube channel. His presentation is clear and he considers both cost and size limitations in his recommendations.

https://youtube.com/c/WoodWright

[William Fretwell]

Where to start? First off you can’t buy all those planes new for $50, not even if they were rejects from Outer Mongolia.

The chip breaker not touching the blade is a big problem.

Maple is a tough wood to work without a very sharp well tuned plane. Even then shavings are thin, progress is slow, especially on a large project. Lots of people build their first bench of SYP to make life easy.

Grain direction: You need an appreciation of tree rings, potential for cupping, look at the end grain, where in the log did it come from? Great topic for another book. With hand tools you can work different grain direction as you come to it, if you have to. Benches need a flat top to stay flat so board width, cupping direction etc are important.

Your top thickness will not work with hold downs, you need 3&1/2” to work. You can glue extra thickness underneath the hold down locations.

First step; throw those planes away, buy one good #5 to start. Buy a pair of water stones, 1000 and 4000, make a leather strop. Learn to sharpen, then when you think you can sharpen, do it again. Nothing works out of the box.

[Jim Koepke]

Hi Bryan and welcome to the Creek.

Your profile does not list your location. You may live near another member who would be happy to help you get started down the slippery slope of hand tool usage.


I was able to pick up a set of stanley planes for $50, new from the store.

Where is this store? That would be a temptation even for me.


First off the bench is 7' long, 25" wide, 2-1/4 inch thick. Pacific coast maple.

That is thicker than my current bench top which can work with holdfasts. So don't despair. My saw benches have 2X material that is actually ~1-1/2" thick and can clamp wood with a holdfast.

You will find with hand tools grain direction plays an important role in how pieces of wood work together.


The chip breaker seemed to have a gap between it and the iron. As a result, the chip breaker would clog after a single pass.

The chip breaker is an important part of getting bevel down hand planes to work. An old post of mine covers a little bit on tuning a chip breaker or cap iron. It is in the Neanderthal Archives > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805 < @ > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?114373

You will need to become a contributor to see the images, $6 well spent.

Trying to correct a cap iron / chip breaker with a grinder may cause more problems. A belt sander might help but can also remove metal too quickly. The chip breaker needs to make a seal against the back of the blade or as you have found it will jam the shavings. The shaving needs to be smoothly 'broken' by the chip breaker.

In the Archives (Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs) are many other useful posts including some on using planes.

To learn more about using the chip breaker / cap iron search > setting a cap iron david weaver < Terms of Service do not allow posting links to other woodworking forums.

A more recent post of mine > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?272588 < covers a lot of different aspects of planing on two pieces of lumber that happen to be 7' long. Once again you need to become a contributor to see the images.

Finally, if you are in the Portland, Oregon area you would be welcome to visit my shop for help in getting your planes set up.

jtk

[Bryan Hall]

Hi Bryan and welcome to the Creek.

Your profile does not list your location. You may live near another member who would be happy to help you get started down the slippery slope of hand tool usage.



Where is this store? That would be a temptation even for me.



That is thicker than my current bench top which can work with holdfasts. So don't despair. My saw benches have 2X material that is actually ~1-1/2" thick and can clamp wood with a holdfast.

You will find with hand tools grain direction plays an important role in how pieces of wood work together.



The chip breaker is an important part of getting bevel down hand planes to work. An old post of mine covers a little bit on tuning a chip breaker or cap iron. It is in the Neanderthal Archives > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805 < @ > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?114373

You will need to become a contributor to see the images, $6 well spent.

Trying to correct a cap iron / chip breaker with a grinder may cause more problems. A belt sander might help but can also remove metal too quickly. The chip breaker needs to make a seal against the back of the blade or as you have found it will jam the shavings. The shaving needs to be smoothly 'broken' by the chip breaker.

In the Archives (Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs) are many other useful posts including some on using planes.

To learn more about using the chip breaker / cap iron search > setting a cap iron david weaver < Terms of Service do not allow posting links to other woodworking forums.

A more recent post of mine > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?272588 < covers a lot of different aspects of planing on two pieces of lumber that happen to be 7' long. Once again you need to become a contributor to see the images.

Finally, if you are in the Portland, Oregon area you would be welcome to visit my shop for help in getting your planes set up.

jtk

Hey Jim, thanks for the response.

I filled out my profile a little more and became a contributor. Thanks for the direction there.


I am, in fact, in Portland Oregon. Would love to take you or anyone else up on an intro.


Good to know I'll be alright with this bench. I'm not horrified about the bench being flawed in any way. I've never had a good clamping surface before and I knew I was going a little thin on this first bench. More than anything I just see it as a good opportunity to learn a few things. My current "workbench" is a rolling 4x6 table. No matter how this turns out, it will be a step in the right direction. Happy to learn as I go.


I was able to get those planes at a local home depot. I'm a carpenter, and I spend a lot of money there. The pro-team calls me from time to time with one off deals. Normally it's for materials, this time it was for tools. They made a major mistake on one of my orders, and someone decided they didn't want those planes after ordering, so they offered them to me at a steep discount. So, spend 100k a year at home depot, and then coordinate a time for them to screw up an order and someone else to cancel their order, and you too will get a $50 set of planes. Obviously the stars have to align for something like this, so I figured the education I get for $50 is well worth it. They would likely exchange the plane with the messed up chip breaker for me if it is a manufacturing flaw.

I'll read through your threads and try to learn a bit more. If you have days/times that you're open for a visit I'd be happy to drop by and learn a few things from you.

[Bryan Hall]

Where to start? First off you can’t buy all those planes new for $50, not even if they were rejects from Outer Mongolia.

The chip breaker not touching the blade is a big problem.

Maple is a tough wood to work without a very sharp well tuned plane. Even then shavings are thin, progress is slow, especially on a large project. Lots of people build their first bench of SYP to make life easy.

Grain direction: You need an appreciation of tree rings, potential for cupping, look at the end grain, where in the log did it come from? Great topic for another book. With hand tools you can work different grain direction as you come to it, if you have to. Benches need a flat top to stay flat so board width, cupping direction etc are important.

Your top thickness will not work with hold downs, you need 3&1/2” to work. You can glue extra thickness underneath the hold down locations.

First step; throw those planes away, buy one good #5 to start. Buy a pair of water stones, 1000 and 4000, make a leather strop. Learn to sharpen, then when you think you can sharpen, do it again. Nothing works out of the box.

Thanks for the tips. I considered SYP since I had seen it recommended elsewhere. The maple was pretty reasonably priced which was a big draw for me. I figured that since PC maple is only slightly harder than SYP it wouldn't be a big deal. Am I wrong on this?

Any books you'd recommend on wood and sharpening?

[Scott Winners]

My opinion the new production blue Stanley planes are useless. "tool shaped objects"

Sharpening is a process. I got serious about woodworking 26 months ago and just in the last week I finally have one plane well enough tuned and sharp enough to run down a board face about the same as the YouTube where Chris Schwarz demonstrates dimensioning rough stock.

Along the way were I think three epiphanies where I got one thing sharper than ever before and stopped woodworking to go sharpen everything else to the new found plateau.

Anytime you can visit another shop to see other folk's sharpening setup or handle chisels from various makers go do that. There is no substitute for hands on experience.

[Bryan Hall]

My opinion the new production blue Stanley planes are useless. "tool shaped objects"

Sharpening is a process. I got serious about woodworking 26 months ago and just in the last week I finally have one plane well enough tuned and sharp enough to run down a board face about the same as the YouTube where Chris Schwarz demonstrates dimensioning rough stock.

Along the way were I think three epiphanies where I got one thing sharper than ever before and stopped woodworking to go sharpen everything else to the new found plateau.

Anytime you can visit another shop to see other folk's sharpening setup or handle chisels from various makers go do that. There is no substitute for hands on experience.

What makes it a "blue plane"? These say sweetheart on them, nothing blue on the plane or box?

[Scott Winners]

What makes it a "blue plane"? These say sweetheart on them, nothing blue on the plane or box?

My local home store has tool shaped objects painted bright blue with the name Stanely on them that are useless. I am not familiar with the current production sweethearts.

If you can put your planes in a box and wear a mask and go visit Jim's shop, one hour there will trump three hours here.

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

welcome to the Creek!
I'm glad to say I am no longer the newest member! :)

Good luck on your build and have fun.

this site has been a tremendous resource for me as well as an impressive display of comradery - it is $6 VERY well spent.

I'm getting things set up to build a bench too, I hope you keep us posted on how its going.

P.S why aren't there any creekers in Israel to invite me to there shop?! (sigh)

[Jim Koepke]

If you have days/times that you're open for a visit I'd be happy to drop by and learn a few things from you.

Being retired has me able to be available with a little warning ahead of time.

Right now we are about to leave to drive to Costco in Astoria.

A PM will be sent this evening.

jtk

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Thanks for the tips. I considered SYP since I had seen it recommended elsewhere.

I’m in NoCal and have never seen SYP. I may be wrong but I believe the only way to get it to the West Coast is to have it shipped from back East, which would be very costly. You’ll be fine with maple, but premium KD Doug Fir is a good SYP alternative and still relatively inexpensive compared to other woods.

[Curt Putnam]

Suggestions:

Find a copy of "Coarse, Medium, Fine" by Christopher Schwarz

Get yourself to whomever will show you some of the ropes

Start haunting the used tool sales - but buy only from recognized names and only buy well restored and tuned planes. By recognized names I mean people you have read on this forum and who seem knowledgeable (such as Jim Koepke). You need a well tuned plane to know what one is like so you can take action when yours departs from good tune.

Read and watch all you can

[Leo Butler]

You need a well tuned plane to know what one is like so you can take action when yours departs from good tune.
Bryan, this is a great suggestion IMO. Buy say a #4, a known desirable older model that's all tuned up, or a shiny new one like a Lie Nielsen if you're willing to go that route (I have a couple and they are superb) and take that over to Jim's. Knowing how a properly tuned plane performs on various woods will be so helpful in letting you know when a given plane of yours isn't (yet) up to snuff.

And as Scott pointed out, you can spend a long time thinking you're doing pretty well, only to learn something new and you realize you've been working with tools that weren't properly sharpened or set up. Took me much longer than 26 months to get where I am now, but at least now I know I have yet more to learn.

I have one of the Stanley planes that Scott mentioned, a #4 that I bought at an estate sale for $20 because it had a Hock blade in it. It has a very heavy casting which can be good or bad depending upon whom you ask, but that darned thing doesn't want to tune up well. Likes to chatter more than my older Stanley and Millers Falls #4 planes. I'm going to set some time aside and work on it until I can clear up whatever is making it perform poorly, because I feel the need to shake this notion that some planes are of poor quality and therefore unredeemable. I feel certain Jim would have to spend five, maybe even six minutes to make it sing. ;)

[Jim Koepke]

[edited]

I have one of the Stanley planes that Scott mentioned, a #4 that I bought at an estate sale for $20 because it had a Hock blade in it. It has a very heavy casting which can be good or bad depending upon whom you ask, but that darned thing doesn't want to tune up well. Likes to chatter more than my older Stanley and Millers Falls #4 planes. I'm going to set some time aside and work on it until I can clear up whatever is making it perform poorly, because I feel the need to shake this notion that some planes are of poor quality and therefore unredeemable. I feel certain Jim would have to spend five, maybe even six minutes to make it sing. ;)

Many planes have been made into good users in my shop. There have been a few clinkers that were beyond my abilities of redemption.

My most recent epiphany came with a current project on a piece of maple. My type 6, #4 had a strange chattering working some maple where a later type with better frog seating design did fine. It seemed the only cause might be the frog and mounting flexing in the hard wood. Maybe it is time to rethink my feelings about the Bedrock planes.

jtk

[Tom Bender]

Hi Bryan
As a pro you may have a built in challenge. Hand tools tend to require a lot of time and focus to accomplish what will look to you like very little progress. It is a rare hand tool user that can make a realistic wage. The pay is measured inside your head and heart.