New Bandsaw Blade - Trimaster on Rikon 14" saw

[Curt Harms]

I've long been in search of a bandsaw blade that cut smoother. I've known about the carbide toothed blades but those don't usually work with 14" band saws. Recently I learned about Trimaster blades 1/2" 3 T.P.I. and the blade is .025" thickness, same as common 14" blades. The only source I could find is toolcenter (https://www.toolcenter.com/111_Band_saw_Blades.html). Finally convinced myself to part with $160 for one. I ordered it March 3, shipped March 4 and got it March 6, not shabby considering it came priority mail. I'll post pictures at the end, I can't figure out how to put pictures in the middle of a post.

Of course like any other kid I immediately had to try my new toy out. I removed the 1/2" blade already on the saw and mounted the Trimaster. Very little adjustment required, I just cranked the tension up as high as I could turn the knob easily. I was concerned about collapsing the spring but no issue, there was plenty of space between the coils. Set the fence for about a 1/4" cut, found a piece of Poplar scrap and hit the switch. Oh my, where have you been all my life?:D Fast (considering it's a 1.5 h.p. motor) smooth and no drift. The vertical stripes look more pronounced in the pictures than they are in person. Couple passes thru the drum sander and good to go. Okay Poplar is soft, let's try Red Oak. Same result. I generally feed resaws pretty slow, I find it leaves a little smoother surface and takes it easy on a small motor. The widest piece of scrap I could find was 7 1/2" but put a straight edge on it and no detectable barreling. I LIKE IT!

I bought a Diemaster 2 at the same time. That isn't as happy a story. It drifts. I checked the saw and adjusted the lower wheel a little so the band ran in the center of both wheels like the manual says. Still drifts. I have a new Lenox flexback 1/2" X 3 T.P.I. and mounted it. No drift so need to spend some time on that. I did try a point fence with the Diemaster 2 and it cut pretty well though not as smooth or fast as the Trimaster. I'd estimate the drift at about 5 - 7 degrees. The last picture shows the Diemaster drift.

Executive Summary: A Trimaster 1/2" .025" 3 T.P.I works well on a 14" steel frame band saw.

[Frank Pratt]

Good to hear that the Trimaster works well. I've got a 14" Rikon & would like to get a carbide resaw blade.

[John TenEyck]

Curt that drift with the Diemaster II s telling you to move the blade further back on the upper wheel. If that doesn't cure the problem then the set is not correct on one side and there's not much you easily can do about that except complain.

Glad the carbide blade is cutting well. It would still be a good idea to actually measure the tension to maximize it's capability and life.

John

[Erik Loza]

Curt, thanks for sharing. I never would have guessed in million years that the Tri-master would work on that saw.

Erik

[Curt Harms]

Curt, thanks for sharing. I never would have guessed in million years that the Tri-master would work on that saw.

Erik

Me either which is why I was foot dragging. I suspect the reason is that the blade is .025" thick, not .032" or more which seems common on carbide bandsaw blades. The thinner blade should also help metal fatigue due to flexing around a smaller diameter wheel. At least I hope so. It needs to last 10X as long as a common flexback blade.

[Curt Harms]

Curt that drift with the Diemaster II s telling you to move the blade further back on the upper wheel. If that doesn't cure the problem then the set is not correct on one side and there's not much you easily can do about that except complain.

Glad the carbide blade is cutting well. It would still be a good idea to actually measure the tension to maximize it's capability and life.

John

John, I'd like to do that. Could you post the formula for computing tension from stretch? I believe you've posted that in the past but I couldn't find it. I have a 6" digital caliper and small C clamps.

[John TenEyck]

John, I'd like to do that. Could you post the formula for computing tension from stretch? I believe you've posted that in the past but I couldn't find it. I have a 6" digital caliper and small C clamps.

Hi Curt. The link will tell you everything you need:

https://sites.google.com/view/jteneyck-woodworker/current-projects/bandsaw-blade-tension-meter?authuser=1

John

[glenn bradley]

Glad you are enjoying the experience of a carbide blade. I had the same "wow" response when I first tried one and immediately forgot the cost. For your drift issue with crowned tires, keep this in mind when positioning your blade.
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[Frank Pratt]

There are so many experts that have conflicting advice on where the blade should ride on the wheels that it's hard to know who to believe. After much trial & mostly error, I run mine with the blade roughly centered on the wheel with the teeth not touching the rubber. No drift at all.

[Andrew Hughes]

I run my blades so the Back of the blade is square to the table. My saw has flat tires

[John TenEyck]

There are so many experts that have conflicting advice on where the blade should ride on the wheels that it's hard to know who to believe. After much trial & mostly error, I run mine with the blade roughly centered on the wheel with the teeth not touching the rubber. No drift at all.

Frank, your don't need any so called experts to tell you how to set the blade. Put it on and see how it cuts. If you look at the drift the OP showed in the last photo above, it's obvious that the blade is too far forward on the top wheel, as shown in the right hand sketch of Glenn's post. A board will naturally align itself with whatever direction the blade is pointing. So you would move the blade further back on the upper wheel so that it cuts straight, as shown in Glenn's middle sketch. I'm talking about crowned wheels.

If the blade is dull on one side, or the set is not equal then things might be different, but you may still be able to get the blade to cut straight by moving it forward or backward on the upper wheel. With a new blade however, it's most likely an alignment issue.

John

[Mark Rainey]

Curt, glad to hear your 1/2 inch Trimaster is working out for you. I normally use the Lenox 1/2 inch 3TPI on my Rikon 10-326 with reasonable success. Got to clean things up on the planer. I went with the 3/4 inch Resaw King ( as previously discussed in another thread ) and I was amazed at the quality of the cut. I still had to clean up a bit on the planer, but much less. After sawing about 150 feet of 6 inch wide cherry, my blade began to drift. I was quite upset, and Laguna gave excellent support, providing me with another blade. I will try that out soon. One thing I noticed was that normally my 1/2 inch blades track well on the upper and lower wheels, and I can get them in the middle. It seemed difficult to do the same with the 3/4 Resaw King. I did talk to Lou Iturra about the Rikon 10-326. He was aware is it a popular model and he has not yet but plans on doing some tests on it concerning best blades and tension. He was hesitant to recommend a stronger spring and he said that high tension was not necessary with the thinner (0.024) blades. I thought more tension is better, but it is good to hear opinions. Keep me posted Curt, maybe the Trimaster is the best resaw blade for the Rikon 10-326.

[John TenEyck]

Curt, glad to hear your 1/2 inch Trimaster is working out for you. I normally use the Lenox 1/2 inch 3TPI on my Rikon 10-326 with reasonable success. Got to clean things up on the planer. I went with the 3/4 inch Resaw King ( as previously discussed in another thread ) and I was amazed at the quality of the cut. I still had to clean up a bit on the planer, but much less. After sawing about 150 feet of 6 inch wide cherry, my blade began to drift. I was quite upset, and Laguna gave excellent support, providing me with another blade. I will try that out soon. One thing I noticed was that normally my 1/2 inch blades track well on the upper and lower wheels, and I can get them in the middle. It seemed difficult to do the same with the 3/4 Resaw King. I did talk to Lou Iturra about the Rikon 10-326. He was aware is it a popular model and he has not yet but plans on doing some tests on it concerning best blades and tension. He was hesitant to recommend a stronger spring and he said that high tension was not necessary with the thinner (0.024) blades. I thought more tension is better, but it is good to hear opinions. Keep me posted Curt, maybe the Trimaster is the best resaw blade for the Rikon 10-326.

Mark, I doubt Mr. Iturra phrased it quite that way. Carbide blades cut better at higher tension (most blades do for that matter). What he probably meant was that you might not need a stronger spring in order to achieve high (enough) tension on a 0.025" thick blade.

As an aside, a stronger spring is of no value if the frame can't handle it. My 14" cast iron Delta can't manage more than about 12 ksi on a 1/2"x 0.025" blade regardless of how strong the spring is or the frame will deflect so much that the upper guides go way out of alignment. I have no clue how stiff the frame is on the Rikon under discussion. Perhaps that was why Mr. Iturra demurred about the spring.

John

[Mark Rainey]

Mark, I doubt Mr. Iturra phrased it quite that way. Carbide blades cut better at higher tension (most blades do for that matter). What he probably meant was that you might not need a stronger spring in order to achieve high (enough) tension on a 0.025" thick blade.

As an aside, a stronger spring is of no value if the frame can't handle it. My 14" cast iron Delta can't manage more than about 12 ksi on a 1/2"x 0.025" blade regardless of how strong the spring is or the frame will deflect so much that the upper guides go way out of alignment. I have no clue how stiff the frame is on the Rikon under discussion. Perhaps that was why Mr. Iturra demurred about the spring.

John

Interesting John. The Rikon 10-326 which I have is very popular. I do not know what the maximum tension limit is - I did call Rikon and one of the tech support told me I could even increase the max tension by adjusting the tension rod behind the upper wheel. My general impression is that steel frame bandsaws such as the Rikon can handle more tension than your Delta. But I have no data to support this. And I respect your wisdom on bandsaws and tension. As I said, Mr. Iturra indicated he has not tested the Rikon. Has anyone measured max tension on this model?

[David Kumm]

There are a couple of factors at play here. If you max out the frame tension, you can get flex when the blade is into the cut and as the force varies, the frame deflects just enough to mess up the tracking of the blade. You also need to factor the spring support which is sometimes a piece of steel welded to the frame. If the weld is less than ideal or the gauge of the steel is too light for the new spring, the frame might not be the problem but rather deflection in the steel spring support. Dave

[Curt Harms]

Bookmarked. Thanks John.

[Curt Harms]

There are so many experts that have conflicting advice on where the blade should ride on the wheels that it's hard to know who to believe. After much trial & mostly error, I run mine with the blade roughly centered on the wheel with the teeth not touching the rubber. No drift at all.

That has been my experience as well until this DieMaster. I've had blades drift before but it was usually due to wear or damage. Change the blade fix the problem.

[Robert Hazelwood]

Carbide blades cut better at higher tension

I don't disagree with this, it seems to be conventional wisdom and manufacturers recommend it. But I have wondered why this is. Why does brazing bits of carbide onto a steel band require the band to be under higher tension than if the teeth were simply cut into the band? The carbide bits aren't under tension, just the band which is essentially the same.

I have a Resaw King on my saw and while it does cut very cleanly, it feels subjectively duller than something like a new Woodslicer. It requires more feed pressure to achieve the same feed rate. I assume this is due to the tooth geometry. If that geometry is typical of carbide blades, then I reckon the extra tension must be mostly about resisting the increased feed pressure so the blade doesn't bow backwards and start to drift.

[John TenEyck]

Interesting John. The Rikon 10-326 which I have is very popular. I do not know what the maximum tension limit is - I did call Rikon and one of the tech support told me I could even increase the max tension by adjusting the tension rod behind the upper wheel. My general impression is that steel frame bandsaws such as the Rikon can handle more tension than your Delta. But I have no data to support this. And I respect your wisdom on bandsaws and tension. As I said, Mr. Iturra indicated he has not tested the Rikon. Has anyone measured max tension on this model?

Mark, I wasn't suggesting your Rikon couldn't out muscle my little Delta; I certainly hope it can or you would have no chance of running a 1/2" blade at 20+ksi much less a 3/4" one. I was only suggesting that Mr. Iturra said it might not need a stiffer spring to get that tension on a 1/2"x 0.025" blade. If that saw can indeed run a 3/4" blade then it should easily tension a 1/2" one to over 20 ksi. But unless you measure the tension you'll never know.

John

[John TenEyck]

I don't disagree with this, it seems to be conventional wisdom and manufacturers recommend it. But I have wondered why this is. Why does brazing bits of carbide onto a steel band require the band to be under higher tension than if the teeth were simply cut into the band? The carbide bits aren't under tension, just the band which is essentially the same.

I have a Resaw King on my saw and while it does cut very cleanly, it feels subjectively duller than something like a new Woodslicer. It requires more feed pressure to achieve the same feed rate. I assume this is due to the tooth geometry. If that geometry is typical of carbide blades, then I reckon the extra tension must be mostly about resisting the increased feed pressure so the blade doesn't bow backwards and start to drift.

I can't think of any blade that cuts better at lower tension. Timberwolf advertises theirs as not needing high tension but I see no reason why the cut quality would be better at low tension. Seems more like a Marketing ploy to sell blades to all of us with low stiffness bandsaws.

Carbide is never as sharp as steel. A new Woodslicer is amazingly sharp, and it's thin. That's why it cuts so easily compared to the inherently less sharp and thicker Resaw King. The problem is it just doesn't stay sharp for very long in hard wood. The Resaw King isn't as sharp to start with, and it will dull as time goes on, but not as much and definitely not as quickly as the Woodslicer so it keeps cutting well.

The tooth on a carbide blade has no set. It creates a kerf because it's wider than the band. Normal blades use tooth set to create a kerf, with each tooth creating only half the kerf. Between the inherently less sharp carbide and each tooth on a carbide blade taking the full kerf it's clear they take both more feed pressure and more power to cut. And that's why you need to run higher band tension, as you said.

John

[Mark Rainey]

I called Rikon technical and they said 18,000 PSI max on 10-326. I will have to measure it myself also. This seems about right. My Resaw King gave me the best cut I ever had ( before it started to drift ), but still needed cleaning up on the planer. So I suppose no blade on my bandsaw can equal the results from the larger machines. Glue up ready from a resaw is an unrealistic dream for me. Keep us posted on your Trimaster Curt.

[John TenEyck]

I called Rikon technical and they said 18,000 PSI max on 10-326. I will have to measure it myself also. This seems about right. My Resaw King gave me the best cut I ever had ( before it started to drift ), but still needed cleaning up on the planer. So I suppose no blade on my bandsaw can equal the results from the larger machines. Glue up ready from a resaw is an unrealistic dream for me. Keep us posted on your Trimaster Curt.

On what blade Mark? If it's on a 3/4" blade then it would be pretty low for a carbide blade, but that would give about 27,000 on a 1/2" of the same gage band and that would great.

John