Suggestions Please

[Peter Blair]

Drawing from the vast knowledge of the turners here I'm hoping someone can help me.

I use a Oneway 1640 wood lathe and lately I have been having trouble drilling.

I'm using a Morse taper adaptor and a screw on chuck (I have about 30 of them, the chucks that is) and as a result I am not interested in buying a new chuck.

I try to 'set' the morse taper in the tailstock by sliding it in quickly and all seems good until my drill (Forstner or similar) makes a bit of a screech which then seems cause vibrations which loosen the Morse taper and allow it will spin in the tail stock.

I have cleaned both male and female the best I can. On close examination it appears the male morse taper has scratches around the shaft. I have gently sanded it with 800 grit and oil but the scratches seem to go deeper than this process will fix.

My question is. Should I buy a new male morse taper and try it and if it fails then can I assume the female part is galled or scratched. If this is the case, should I then buy a reamer and try to gently ream the tailstock which I am very reluctant to try.

What would you suggest.

I put bluing on the male part and here are a couple of pictures.
The first is gently putting it in the tail stock and rotating it and the second is sliding it in quickly and then turning a bit with a pipe wrench.

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[Brice Rogers]

The scratches showing at the small end would be a concern to me.

If you run your fingernail over that area on the male MT, can you feel a raised area? If you can, carefully take a small jewelers file to remove the ridge. If the male MT doesn't have a ridge, then the Female Mt in the quill is damaged.

I have cleaned up a galled female Mt by wrapping very fine sand paper around the male part and working slowly. But because the area of concern is so deep, I don't know if the thickness of the sand paper wouldn't allow that.

Alternatively, you could buy an MT2 reamer set and clean it up. Do it by hand, take your time, and don't get too aggressive. You are only trying to remove the ridge in the quill.

[Peter Blair]

Thanks Brice, I'm thinking of buying a new male and adding blue and testing it before I use it. That should give me an idea of what is happening and if it marks the same or similar then I think I will buy a reamer to clean up the female. I don't suppose there is any such thing as a MT honing tool?

[Dick Strauss]

After making sure you have good MT contact, you might try using a MT male with a 1/4-20 threaded hole. Then you run a 1/4-20 threaded rod through the tailstock spindle (also through a piece of scrap wood in the back of the spindle ram wheel) and then tighten the nut. This setup will not allow the drill bit and chuck to rattle loose and spin.

Make sure you clear the shavings out of the bit spirals regularly while drilling the hole by withdrawing the drill bit completely several times during the drilling operation. Also try slowing your drilling speed as appropriate for that size bit. Make sure to start with a sharp starter bit followed by a sharp regular bit so that you hole starts and stays on center. Make sure to use as short of a bit as needed (longer bits tend to flex more). Try to extend the tailstock spindle as little as possible after seating the MT.

All of these items will help you to be more successful.

[Dick Strauss]

Not being able to see the pics, reaming it gently sounds like a good idea if you can see a raised section on the female side.

I'm guessing your male taper came loose and the small end started to scribe circles in the female portion because the MT male corner is sharp. The narrow part of the male end should not be sharp (it should be ever so slightly rounded to prevent this from happening). If not, take some sanding cloth and knock off the sharp corner to prevent future issues.

[Peter Blair]

Thanks for the ideas Dick. The Oneway tailstock doesn't continue through the unit so a piece of threaded rod won't work. That was my first thought. I try to follow all your other suggestions with adding air as I drill as suggested in another thread by Mr Jordan. Sorry you can't see the photos. I think I shall buy a new male part and start over. The first thing I will do is to round the small end as you suggest and see where that takes me but you just may be right about the damage to the female part. I try to look into it with a good light but really can't see any damage. One other thought is the male one I have is not too expensive and I wonder if the quality of the taper might be a little less than desirable. Once again, thanks for the tips and ideas!

[Dick Strauss]

Some male tapers are longer/shorter than others. Look and see if you have a shorter one that avoids contacting the damaged area.

I always hold the outside of the chuck to keep it from spinning just in case it starts to do so.

I'm sorry to hear that there is no through-hole on the Oneway. There are sharp people designing/manufacturing the Oneways so they must have a reason for making it that way.

[Dick Strauss]

They do make an inexpensive cleaning tool for MT that you might want to try first. Check to see if someone froma local club has one you can borrow.

[Peter Blair]

Thanks Dick. I have cleaned the taper and I have one of those plastic cleaner things. Maybe I should try cutting off the end of the male part? Oh but if I do then it won't self eject as it does now. I could of course sand of file it down in that area but I do believe it was supposed to be hardened. I will order a new one and then maybe try a file or grinding a little off the small part where the scratches are.

[Reed Gray]

Pretty much every single time I see some one on a You Tube video drilling with a forstner bit in a jacobs chuck mounted in the tailstock, one hand is on the crank, and the other is holding the jacobs chuck. Not so much when using the smaller twist bits. If the morris taper was too tight of a fit, you would have problems getting it out of the tailstock, even with a bigger knock out bar...

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

Peter,

I didn't have time to read all the responses so maybe this is covered. Once a MT spins it can gall both the MT shaft and the socket and nothing will hold with precision again. You can fix the shaft with a flat file and fix the socket with a round file but it's far better to use a MT reamer for the socket. I use this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07933VYD7

Any scratches below the machined surface won't hurt anything but you need to remove any raised metal from galling.

I don't allow the taper to spin, I ALWAYS use something to prevent that. Usually I grab with some vise grips and rest the handle of the vise grips on the tool rest. Some chucks have appropriate holes that I can hold with a rod. It's possible to grind flats on the MT and hold with a wrench.

If I have the right bit, I use taper shank bits and avoid the jacob's chuck completely. I have a fairly complete set but not all the sizes. These still require auxiliary holding to prevent spinning if the bit gets tight or jammed.

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In the rare case that you can arrange your work to hold the drill chuck in the headstock and the work in the tailstock, you can use a drawbar to hold the Jacobs chuck in the headstock. Most of the MT mandrels on my Jacobs chucks are threaded for a drawbar. It can't spin with a tight drawbar.

JKJ

[Peter Blair]

Thanks everyone. Rob the Oneway knocks out the tailstock items by cranking back till it hits inside and pops out. I always drill small first then move to bigger and blow out the chips with air while drilling which makes it a little difficult to hold the chuck. Thanks for commenting I always am interested to hear from you!
John thanks as well much of my work of late is made easier with a large 2"plus hole to quickly remove a lot of stock and my taper drills just are't big enough. I will however take your advise re a reamer as I'm pretty sure there has been some minor damage.
Has anyone had experience with male Morese tapers from Amazon? Are they likely to be less accurate than others?

[John K Jordan]

...
Has anyone had experience with male Morese tapers from Amazon? Are they likely to be less accurate than others?

Do you mean those made for drill chucks, 2MT on and JT on the other? All MT products I've ever had have been perfect regardless of the maker, except.... I got some badly machined MT mandrels from Rubber Chucky, aluminum, and not machined to the right taper. (The mandrels actually wobbled in the socket.) When I called they guy told me to pound them in with a hammer! I reworked them instead.

If in doubt, any machine shop can test them before the return window expires. Or with a known good MT socket use the bluing method you showed. Should get even markings all the way down the taper.

BTW, if drilling 2" diameter hole I hold a forstner bit with an end mill collet to eliminate the jacob's chuck. #2MT end mill holders come in various diameters. I have a set of large forstner's with 3/8" shafts so this one will fit all of them. I use this mostly to drill 2-1/16" recesses in the bowl and platter stock to hold with a chuck.

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JKJ

[Peter Blair]

Thanks for the info John. The mill collet appears to still need a male morse taper? How do you hold it from slipping when drilling. At present I am planning to dedicate a set of vase grips to the task after I get a reaming set for the tail stock.

[John K Jordan]

.... How do you hold it from slipping when drilling. At present I am planning to dedicate a set of vase grips to the task after I get a reaming set for the tail stock.

I grab it with vise grips and rest the vise grips against the tool rest. I have vise grips from micro to monster size.
However, for shallow recesses I usually just hold the end mill holder with my hand and drill gently. It's got a nice sized section easy to hold. I've thought about milling a hole in the side to hold a rod but haven't tried that yet.

Also, if drilling deeper than just a recess for the chuck, I always apply compressed air into the back of the forstner bit during the drilling. This not only cools the bit but clears the chips which helps cool the bit! I rarely have to back out the drill to clear chips. I hit on this idea a bunch of years ago and it worked so well I use it every time. I always use carbide forstner bits since a precise, smooth-sided hold is rarely needed in woodturning.

JKJ

[Peter Blair]

Thanks again John for taking the time to help. I shall begin using visegrips. I generally drill deep when I do hollow forms starting with a 1" and progressing up to what ever I can fit. Incidentally I have been using compressed air as you suggest ever since I first read the idea in a previous post of yours, thanks. I have ordered a new MT for my chucks and a set of reamers. Hopefully this will remedy my issues. Thanks again to all who have made suggestions to help me!

[Dan Hunkele]

If a threaded rod is used in a tailstock to keep the taper seated it will render the tailstock inoperable. The rod will keep it from being cranked out for drilling.

[John K Jordan]

If a threaded rod is used in a tailstock to keep the taper seated it will render the tailstock inoperable. The rod will keep it from being cranked out for drilling.

Yes.

I wish someone would design a tailstock that could accommodate a draw bar - would be a big enhancement. I've sketched out some ideas in the past but to retrofit would require more machining than I was capable of or willing to tackle.

Someone here mentioned they used a tailstock drawbar with their lathe but I don't remember seeing a response with details. For me, a drawbar that locked the quill with drilling by simply sliding the tailstock would have several serious limitations.

[Prashun Patel]

In my experience, it takes some precision to drill exactly - i mean exactly - straight. Any slight variation will cause subtle wobble at the tail stock. I suspect it's this wiggle that causes the taper to loosen.

I would suspect your taper is fine and can tolerate a scratch or two.

When I drill, I grab the chuck with a quick clamp. The rubber pads hold the chuck well enough (it does not require a lot of force, and I let the bar of the clamp rotate and lean against the ways. This takes most of the force off the taper. I back out frequently, which evacuates chips and allows the drill to keep true.

[Dick Strauss]

After you are sure your MTs are good on both the headstock and tailstock, you can mount the drill chuck (in the headstock with a drawbar) and use an MT2 to threaded adapter and chuck on the tailstock side. You rotate the drill with the motor and advanced the turned piece you are trying to hollow using the tailstock ram wheel.

[Peter Blair]

Dick, this would work with other projects but I am generally drilling a hollow form of longer than say 6" supported with a home made steady rest the piece is shaped prior to drilling. My tailstock MT3 is the issue and I doubt that it would make much difference if it held the work of the drill.

I tried holding the chuck with a set of vase grips but the vase grips managed to make the chuck hard to use. They seemed to sort of squash the chuck and render it almost useless. In addition I did fine it difficult to use the tool rest as a stop. Setting it up exactly parallel to the bed of lathe was problematic. I did manage a hole by going small first and slow while holding the chuck and trying to hold my air gun at the same time was also awkward. I do have an older key type chuck fitted with a #2MT and a 2 to 3 adaptor that I just may have to go back to using. I only change to the keyless to make things a little quicker.
Thanks again for all the suggestions and help!!

[John K Jordan]

I tried holding the chuck with a set of vase grips but the vase grips managed to make the chuck hard to use. They seemed to sort of squash the chuck and render it almost useless. ...

Are you gripping the body of the jacobs chuck with vise grips? I gripped the mandrel behind the chuck body but maybe there is more space on mine.

All the chucks I have holes machined in the sides. The right sized rod can be used to keep the chuck from rotating in the tailstock along with the tool rest but the holes on some chucks are shallow. I don't use a rod since I want a hand free for the compressed air gun.

For small diameter (and even deep) holes, I just hold the chuck body with my left hand.

[Peter Blair]

Yes John, my visegrip jaws were too wide to get to the mandrel. I received the taper cutters and gently cleaned the taper and drilled a couple of holes yesterday. Holding the chuck in my left hand. I did have one issue it happened when I began to withdraw the drill. I believe most of mu issuers are a result of working wet/green wood which changes shape as you go and likely causes the out of roundness that makes the drill chirp and vibrate and come loose. The last holes I drilled I stopped the lathe before with drawing the drill and that seem to work. Thanks again to eveyone who has offered suggestions to help me!!

[John K Jordan]

Yes John, my visegrip jaws were too wide to get to the mandrel. I received the taper cutters and gently cleaned the taper and drilled a couple of holes yesterday. Holding the chuck in my left hand. I did have one issue it happened when I began to withdraw the drill. I believe most of mu issuers are a result of working wet/green wood which changes shape as you go and likely causes the out of roundness that makes the drill chirp and vibrate and come loose. The last holes I drilled I stopped the lathe before with drawing the drill and that seem to work. Thanks again to everyone who has offered suggestions to help me!!

I have used some channel lock pliers that were thinner and would fit between the back of the chuck and the quill. Also, I ground down the sides of a vise grips and wrenches and such to make the jaws thinner for special uses.

Also, once I used one of those strap clamps with a flexible strap that tightened around the chuck body.

But are there hole in the chuck body that could be held with a steel rod but they are shallow. I think there is enough metal in the body to drill the holds a little deeper. That, I think, would be the best solution in the long run. If I can get to it I'll post about the results. (I think I have 6 pr 7 Jacobs chucks so if I mess one up it won't hurt too bad! :)

JKJ

[Peter Blair]

John I have about 50 keyless chucks that were in a Lot that I got at auction and of course they don't have a hole. I do have an older key type but it had a #2 MT and I had to add a 2 to 3 to make it work in my tailstock and it was a bit clunky but I don't recall it ever coming loose so I just may have to go back to using it. Thanks again for taking the time to make suggestions and try to help me resolve this issue.