Forgot to Elongate Holes on Breadboard Ends

[Eddie Ormerod]

My dumb forgot to elongate the holes in the tenon that fits into the breadboard end.
It's a red oak table 13/16 thick top. I used 5 dowels on each end to secure the breadboard ends.
I'm building this table for a couple I kinda know. When I deliver, I'll tell her the screw up and tell her I'll replace it, if it cracks or breaks.
Yall think it'll be a problem?

Eddie

[John TenEyck]

Well if the lady has really good control of the RH in her house say 50 - 55% year round, it will be fine. That's unlikely the case, however, so I would go back and drill out those dowels in the every tenon except the one in the middle. If you didn't glue the center tenon then you can drill that one out, too, and then remove the ends, elongate the holes and put it back together. If you did glue the center tenon, then you'll have to take another approach. I've used Zipbolts on two tables to hold the ends of the breadboards. They look like this:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3egaa5RlgEdlQhZhpRsDTeMLhuMhfNqdGvMuSSh5azebMA7yzK m_S3efhS7-1MPYVtu8BjLJYhFdE0zHofpntcP4EZYdoT9As-gwj-g7GOvpq95wkwGiXwx9jl7vRJsdJwKGWUQs-aYATKgI0h67cGCMw=w1113-h626-no?authuser=0

You route an oversized recess in both the field and end to allow the field to expand/contract. It look like this with the end off:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dmxnv7lSzF1s0BozqjRCZTa6EvgbjP7s2kKMLeYHVVv7buW0o Nn8ptda5RVDBoQBJdum6iXMcXS1XPWjnETHDYaG2D3YVcypZd2 KwH-jGgwYwh8V82Rtf0x9MIa2-6kG4q6sXpOyqP_naF_O802iMQqA=w1113-h626-no?authuser=0

I would fix it before delivery. Otherwise, you most likely will be making a new top later. This 42" wide English walnut top will expand/contract nearly 3/8". Plain sawn red oak will expand about the same amount just going from 7 - 10% MC, quarter sawn about half as much.

John

[Eddie Ormerod]

I glued the middle dowel 😏

[Bruce Wrenn]

Do dowels go all the way thru to top side? If not, using router, from bottom side cut them out. Remember you only need to cut thru the tongue. Plug the holes. Then use John's method of fastening bread board on

[Andrew Hughes]

Don’t tell your customer about any mistakes you made. Always say it came out perfect.
Its the finest table you ever made.

[Ed Aumiller]

If you tell her/him you made a mistake, they will be LOOKING for problems... even ones not related to what you are concerned about...
Either fix it, or make another top...

SORRY.....

[Richard Coers]

You didn't mention the cut of the wood (q-sawn is more stable), the species, the location in the country, the diameter of the dowels, or the finishing method. If you have 4 seasons of the year, the first thing they will notice is this spring when the table tries to expand. Most likely to show up as a big bow in the table. And then the cracking if the dowels hold up. If you used 1/4" dowels, it may just crush the fiber in the dowels. That outside dowel may have to crush half it's diameter though. I'm for full disclosure. When the table cracks you will be considered a rookie and references will not come from that friend. The old tale; a satisfied customer will tell 10 people about your great work, and dissatisfied customer will tell 100. In my book, not admitting to a mistake is like lying. That never works. But in my shop, the bread board would come off and be redone before shipping. Can't count the times I took a beating to prevent shipping a mistake.

[John TenEyck]

I glued the middle dowel 

OK, but did you glue in the middle tenon? If not, just drill out the dowels and the ends will come off. If you did, then use the Zipbolt approach after you drill out all the dowels except the middle one.

Are you saying you did not glue in the other dowels, only the middle? That's a mistake. You glue in the middle dowel solid, along with that tenon. With all other dowels you glue them in only on the bottom of the breadboard. Drive them in except for the last 1/4", coat the exposed section with a little glue, and then drive them in the rest of the way. You don't want them falling out after a few years.

John

[Bill Dufour]

[QUOTE=Richard Coers;3104775]You didn't mention the cut of the wood (q-sawn is more stable), the species, the location in the country,

What country is he in? I could not figure it out. Maybe he is in Panama and the humidity will stay at 100% year round.
Bil lD

[Eddie Ormerod]

I glued the middle dowel and just the top and bottom of the other dowels. 1/2 dowels.

[Richard Coers]

[QUOTE=Richard Coers;3104775]You didn't mention the cut of the wood (q-sawn is more stable), the species, the location in the country,

What country is he in? I could not figure it out. Maybe he is in Panama and the humidity will stay at 100% year round.
Bil lD
If you read the words I actually typed, I asked the location in the country. I didn't ask which country! If he lives in Nevada, Arizona, or high desert of Washington state, the humidity levels change very little over the year

[John TenEyck]

I glued the middle dowel and just the top and bottom of the other dowels. 1/2 dowels.

Are they through dowels, showing on both the top and bottom? No matter, if you drill or route them out you will be able to take the ends off and elongate the holes in the tenons into slots.

John

[Dan Hahr]

You could just saw off the bread board ends at the line just table side of the dowels. Pop off the ends. The joint will not be impossible to break. Recut the tenons and remake the breadboard ends. Put it back together properly. If overall length must be the same, just make the breadboards a little wider.

Dan

[Eddie Ormerod]

Overall Table is 90 inches long. Ends are 3 inches wide. Is there a maximum width that the ends should be?
Right now the tenon is 5/16 thick and 7/8 long.

Eddie

[Kevin Jenness]

Fix it now and you don't have to explain anything. You should be able to drill out the dowels and save the breadboard end cap. If not, rout off the end cap and save the tenons. If you have to cut off the tenons replace them with spline tenons.

[Richard Coers]

You don't have to loose any length. cut off the existing tenon and put in a floating tenon.

[John TenEyck]

Overall Table is 90 inches long. Ends are 3 inches wide. Is there a maximum width that the ends should be?
Right now the tenon is 5/16 thick and 7/8 long.

Eddie

That's not a tenon; it's a stub tenon. It might be enough to hold an end only 3" wide, but it would be far better if you had 3 longer tenons in addition to the stub tenon. The stub tenon keeps the field in alignment with the breadboard end. The long tenons are what gives it strength, and also normally where the dowels are located.

So with all that in mind, I would rip of the ends. If you don't have any stock to make new ones, then rip them off at the joint with the field. If you do then rip them off at the outside of the stub tenon, then route off whatever needs to be to get back to the stub tenon on the field. Cut three mortises at least 1-1/2" deep in both the ends of the field and in the breadboard ends. If you had to cut off the stub tenon, then route a slot between the deep mortises at least 3/4" deep for a new stub tenon. Make loose tenons to fit and glue them into the field. Install the breadboard ends and drill holes for the dowels, then remove the ends and elongate the holes in the outer tenons.

Fixing this now may save you some further future pain. If you finished the table with a film finish after the ends were installed, there is a high probability it will crack at the joint when the field expands/contracts. Finishing the ends separately from the field prevents this from happening.

John

[johnny means]

Drill out your dowels and replace them with dowels with a "waist".

[Phil Gaudio]

Wood does move. Here is pic of table I built over 15 years ago: breadboard end was flush with edge when I built it. Make it right.

https://i.postimg.cc/WbrQv2qP/IMG-2886.jpg (https://postimg.cc/CzhvCp4v)

[Doug Dawson]

Wood does move. Here is pic of table I built over 15 years ago: breadboard end was flush with edge when I built it. Make it right.

To the OP and more generally: You don’t have to glue any of the dowels. IMO there’s no need to. This would have made the problem easier to fix.

[John TenEyck]

To the OP and more generally: You don’t have to glue any of the dowels. IMO there’s no need to. This would have made the problem easier to fix.

You are correct. There is no need to but there is a benefit, especially if you spring the joint so that the ends remain tight. Gluing the center tenon holds it tightly to the field and takes the stress off the dowel.

John