Used Planer Advice

[Mike Burke]

I have come to a point that I would like to get a planer. Basement shop , hobby wood worker.
Not sure about the Dewalt 735 even with all the positive reviews.

Ran across this used Grizzly G1021 planer close to home.
I called talked to him, he told me its 23 yrs old and that it was in the shop when he bought the acreage. He hasn't use it much.

It looks a little rough but if the price is right what do you think ?
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Thanks for any input or suggestions

[Dave Seng]

Does it have a dust collection port?

[Mike Burke]

Doesn't look like its on there. Should have one . I looked at the manual and there should be one. Better check

[Si Wood]

That is a solid planer and definitely workable.. If you make the purchase, just start from the ground up on all the pertinent adjustments. I bought a portable Grizzly ( a reluctant made in Taiwan option back then ) new more than 25years ago and it was my main planer for shop and site work for the better part of 15years. I had replaced the bearings, brushes and switch at year 12 and upgraded to the 735 for no other reason than to be fancy and little more refined. That Dewalt is a great little planer and gives a nice finish with the help of infeed and outfeed support beyond what it comes with but you'll go thru knives like crazy. Owned that Dewalt for a little over a year and came across my current General 130 so I sold to upgrade. Now my General broke a shear pin ( my fault ) and I'm using my little grizzly as a backup until my Shelix head comes in...an early birthday present :D I think I see a dust shute in the middle picture

[Alex Zeller]

You can always make a dust port if needed. Grizzly may still sell parts for it. I would bring some rough cut lumber and run a couple pieces through it to make sure it works. Make sure the table moves up and down smoothly and there's no unusual noises. I would look at the outfeed roller. Some of the older planers have one that's metal with fine "teeth" to pull the board. Once you run a board through it you'll be able to see marks from the roller. If so it'll just mean you'll need to do a little more sanding than what would be needed on one with a smooth roller.

[Lisa Starr]

I just sold mine G1021. It was a solid planer every day I owned it, and was still going strong when I replaced it with a J/P combo machine. My dust port had an ... "accident"...and I was still able to order a replacement from Grizzly that bolted right up.

It is an easy machine to work on, so I'd wouldn't be afraid of it at all.

[Mike Burke]

Thanks for the advice so far. I think I'll go check it out.
I know what he is asking $ and I know what I would like to pay but....

If it all checks out and works what do you think would be a good deal ? $$

[Gordon Stump]

I have that planer and it is solid. Griz has parts!

[Mike Heidrick]

Good deal? Under $500 if it works great.

[Mike Kees]

It is probably more important what you think is a good deal, you are the one paying for it. New ones like that are in the 2000 range now.

[George Mathew]

Had that planer - sold it last year as i didn't have space in my shop.
now i have a dewalt 735.

I had to add a dust collector hood to my G1021. Grizzly had the part available and was a simple fix.
I haven't had any issues with the G1021 - other than being bulky..

[David Kumm]

If it runs OK <500 is about right. Dave

[Matt Day]

The best thing about that Delta copy is the beds don’t move so you can build out indeed outfeed tables if you want. Solid machine.

[Jared Sankovich]

The best thing about that Delta copy is the beds don’t move so you can build out indeed outfeed tables if you want. Solid machine.

The beds move on that model.

[Matt Day]

The beds move on that model.

So grizzly copied it, but left the best part of the design out. Lol, kidding. Good catch! $400 max if it were me.

[Matthew Hills]

Does this planer use straight knives?
(if so, replacing these is moderately fiddly)

I see two upsides for planers like this over a modern benchtop:
- can usually be adjusted to eliminate snipe
- motor runs quieter than a universal motor

For basement shop, you will want dust collection. You should be able to make something homemade even if mfg doesn't have the part available -- anything to redirect the chip chute into your dust collector.

Matt

[David Kumm]

I think Grizzly made a copy of the Delta with fixed beds and a copy of the other copies made in Taiwan at the time with fixed head. There was also a difference in feed speeds on some of the copies. the Delta had a wider range- basically a slower low. some of the copies had a narrow range, fast and too fast. Dave

[Mike Burke]

So I just realized something that I have never paid attention too. I haven't been around planers much , never had one, but just noticed.

Fixed table or Fixed motor cutter head

I would assume that the fixed motor cutter head is better ? The table would be easier to raise and lower and the cutter head would have less chances to move ?
Would you school me a little ? :)

[Bruce Wrenn]

I guess a couple of posters didn't look at the pictures. It doesn't need in feed/ out feed tables, as it comes with the rollers. This is a solid planer, cloned off the Rockwell DC-33 / Invicta / Delta 380, only with adjustable tables rather than motor rising and falling.

[Bill Dufour]

Stationary tables are much easier to add extensions onto. A motor on top of the cutter head makes knife changes and adjustment a long slow process.
Bill D

[Bruce Wrenn]

Stationary tables are much easier to add extensions onto. A motor on top of the cutter head makes knife changes and adjustment a long slow process.
Bill D


Tell me about it! I own a Delta DC-380

[Mike Burke]

So, is there a best option ?
fixed bed
or
fixed motor/cutter head ?

[Bill Dufour]

IAFAIK all movable head planers are lightweights while all the heavy old cast iron machines have fixed heads.
Regardless make sure to check the bedroll bearings for free turning. On my Parks the oilite bushing was worn eggshaped so the roller would come up from time to time making for lumpy surfaces.
Bill D.

[Alex Zeller]

I've never needed extensions beyond what came with my 20" planer. So a movable bed isn't an issue to me. Once you get beyond 15" the motor is too heavy to move. I've never owned a portable planer so maybe they are different and the weight of a very long board could tip it over or the weight of the ends of the board could bow the board putting too much force on the center of the board causing the planer to take too much off in the center of the board but with the floor planers they are constructed to easily handle it.

I guess if you were trying to plane a lot of lumber at one time by yourself longer tables might be helpful but even then I find that I can start a second board, allow it enough time to start planing, and walk to the rear and remove the first board. Even then I find it much more important to have a table for stacking the two piles of wood that either can be rolled or is in a good spot so placing boards on the stack is within easy reaching distance while at the same time the stack is close to the front of the planer for feeding wood into it.

The biggest issue would be what Bill said. With the motor on top, how difficult is it to set the blades? If hard then I could see that being an issue.

[Bruce Wrenn]

IAFAIK all movable head planers are lightweights while all the heavy old cast iron machines have fixed heads.
Regardless make sure to check the bedroll bearings for free turning. On my Parks the oilite bushing was worn eggshaped so the roller would come up from time to time making for lumpy surfaces.
Bill D.


My Delta DC-380, movable head, weighs in at 600 pounds. The only way I would call that light weight is when comparing to my Rockwell 13", which weighs almost twice as much. Look at shipping weight for similar planers and see which is heavier, movable, or fixed. Just checked Grizzly's web site, and their G0815, which is a very close machine, without stand, or rollers has a ship weight of almost 400#, which definitely not light weight. Any machine shop can turn you new bushings, if they aren't available OEM.

[Dave Cav]

Manual is here:
https://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g1021_m.pdf
Knife change/adjustment doesn't look horrible, but there apparently aren't jack screws. Make sure you get the knife setting gauge (shown in the manual). It's probably available from Grizzly, too. They sold thousands of those planers. I had one of the later versions with the motor underneath; it was a fine planer. It replaced an old Makita lunchbox planer and I still remember how happy I was to get it. I eventually put a Byrd head in it, then sold it when I got my Powermatic.

[Bill Dufour]

To me a heavy duty planer is like the rockwell wedge bed 18" which weighs about 1,000 pounds. I expect the motor is not included in the weight listed.
Bil lD

[David Kumm]

In the 15" planer world, fix vs movable heads have nearly the same build. Movable tables are easier and cheaper to build so most of the clones have gone that route. While a step up from lunchbox types, these planers do lack design improvements found on higher end or larger planers. In the old machine catagory, 18-20" machines like the Delta Wedgebed, oliver 399, or PM 180 were all considered light duty. Most ( the Delta was an exception ) used one motor to run both the feed and the head, and the bed rollers were non powered. Weight was in the 1000-1300 range vs the 2000+ of the 24" machines with multiple. motors, larger diameter head, and heavy chipbreakers and pressure bars.

The 15' machines were slotted in between the lunchbox and 18" builds and while a compromise in design, gave a decent finish if not pushed too hard. Dave

[Mike Burke]

Thanks for all the replies, some good information and you have "schooled" me about planer design and making my decision going forward with my hunt for a planer.

I went and checked this planer out last night. It was rough. Looked like it wasn't very well taken care of over its life . I checked out all the points and places mentioned here, cranks, cracks, rollers, rust. And I ran some lumber through it. It needed a lot or work. I think it need rebuilt , rollers were sticky, crank and chain were sloppy, oil on the bed , bent base, it was just to rough for what I wanted to deal with. It had lived a tough live you could tell.

I Passed on it. The seller didn't want to come down on the price. I wouldn't have bought it at half the asking price..to much work for me to rebuild it.

Thanks again for all the information and suggestions. It really helps me with my hunt for a used or new planer.
i appreciate it all.

[Mike Burke]

I am still looking for a planer. I have a chance for a Woodmaster 712. A buddy picked it at an auction. Depending on how old it is and shape its in I think it would be a good deal at $500
I haven't looked at it yet but am going to this weekend. I've read quite a bit about the Woodmaster and see they have a good following.

Another buddy has had a Woodmaster for several years, but only uses it as a molder. Said it is a Great molder but he has never used it as a planer. Didn't think it would really be heavy enough for a planer. Told me to keep looking for a used Jet or Shop Fox. Something made out of cast iron. So I come back here to ask

Opinions on a Woodmaster 712 as a planer ?

Is there any of you that have a Woodmaster as a planer ?

My main use will be a planer.

[Mike Truhn]

Mike

I have had a Woodmaster 712 for about 20 years now and it works very good as a planner I have never used it as a molder (even though I have that option). It is 220volts, it has never had any problems with anything I have put through it

Mike

[Dave Cav]

I had a Woodmaster a couple of years ago. It was over 20 years old and the PO was using it as a planer. I got it to run a house full of custom stain grade molding and sold it shortly after the house was finished, but it worked fine. They are a fairly basic machine, but still in production in the US and parts are readily available, and they're easy to repair or adjust if necessary. The fact that they have been in production for probably over 50 years says something.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I bought a 718 to use as a planer years ago, and was not impressed. The rollers are very far from the head, so I got a lot of snipe and feed problems. I assume this is a compromise to allow for a larger molder or drum sander head, but I don't know. The one I had was old and well or badly used, so maybe one in better shape would work better, but I wouldn't buy another unless it was a really good deal.

[David Kumm]

The WM is a great molder but by nature of the design, it will be a compromise as a planer. Their can be no close to the head chipbreaker or pressure bar due to the room needed for molding heads. That can cause snipe. To be fair, many if not most 15" planers have poorly designed chipbreakers and PB too but they are placed closer to the head. Dave

[Ron Selzer]

I am still looking for a planer. I have a chance for a Woodmaster 712. A buddy picked it at an auction. Depending on how old it is and shape its in I think it would be a good deal at $500
I haven't looked at it yet but am going to this weekend. I've read quite a bit about the Woodmaster and see they have a good following.

Another buddy has had a Woodmaster for several years, but only uses it as a molder. Said it is a Great molder but he has never used it as a planer. Didn't think it would really be heavy enough for a planer. Told me to keep looking for a used Jet or Shop Fox. Something made out of cast iron. So I come back here to ask

Opinions on a Woodmaster 712 as a planer ?

Is there any of you that have a Woodmaster as a planer ?

My main use will be a planer.


I bought mine "new" in 1987. It had been returned to the factory, figured out after running it that the idler pulley for the feed belt was mounted on the wrong side, it was on the tension side of the belt instead of the slack side. Mine was the newer style with the stub ends for planer, sander head instead of solid shaft all the way thru. Definitely easier to change from sanding to planeing to molding. 5 hp motor with separate feed motor. No dust collection available at that time for it so added it myself.
Does snipe, however if boards are fed end butted doesn't snipe most of the time. Typically plane 80-100 bd ft at a time to eliminate most of the snipe and it is easier to maintain same thickness consistently. Made over a thosand ft of 3 1/2' wide molding with it, plane approx 1000 bd ft of rough sawn lumber a yr with it, don't care to sand with it(don't like drum sanders period). Was the right tool when bought and has been very handy for years. Now have a Delta 4 post, a DW 734 both never get used and just got a Mini max FS-30 which once repaired and running might finally get me away from the Wood Master 712, time will tell. At $500 it would have to be in bad not usable shape for me not to recommend it.
Ron

[Jon Fiebing]

First I want to thank the forum members who freely give of their knowledge.

I have read and learned, but did not have the $$ to do anything but that.

I have taken to heart that used Euro is a fine way to go and now I do have some $$, but not for new Euro.

There is this machine on woodweb..

https://www.woodweb.com/exchanges/machinery/posts/531205.html

David K. and others is this one I should consider?

Its a different looking insert head; is it a good one?

Is the price fair, or too much and I can do better as I am in no immediate need having waited this long.

I live in MI and could go see it.

Larry E., you live in MI also ( I think?)

thanks in advance for guidance,

Jon Fiebing

[Phillip Mitchell]

Jon,

I think the Casadei planers of that era are fine machines, though factory support should you need it will likely be minimal. Doesn’t SCM own Casadei at this point?

That looks like a well outfitted machine that I would hope functions perfectly with little to no setup needed. I think you’re on the right track, but that’s a pretty steep price for that particular era machine if you ask me, but I tend to search long and hard for better deals as opposed to paying dealer prices for quick and convenient purchases. I would rather have a Tersa head in a planer personally, but many folks seem to love the helical heads.

I have seen similar size (520-630mm) Euro planers, often times SCM of the same or slightly newer vintage regularly available for less money than that asking price. Do you need 24” machine?

Forgive me if this has been mentioned or hashed out prior as I have read the entire thread, but do you have 3 phase power and/or are you generating it with a RPC?

This machine (and many other 24” Euro planers) have 12 HP cutterhead motors, usually in addition to a smaller feed motor (1-2 HP?) so you would need a fairly large converter to get this motor started.

I have an older 20” (500mm) SCM S50 planer from the late 70s with a 4 knife cutterhead and a 9 HP motor that I run with a RPC rated to start up to a 10 HP motor. It’s on a 30 amp, 220v 3 phase circuit. 12HP may need to go up to a 40 amp circuit, maybe? Hard to say without seeing the motor tag.

Just my 2 cents.

[Jon Fiebing]

Thanks Phillip M.,

this snip was useful...

I think you’re on the right track, but that’s a pretty steep price for that particular era machine if you ask me, but I tend to search long and hard for better deals as opposed to paying dealer prices for quick and convenient purchases. I would rather have a Tersa head in a planer personally,


It's not the right one and I am willing to search.
How did you find your s50?

thanks for your taking the time to answer.

Jon Fiebing

[Phillip Mitchell]

Thanks Phillip M.,

this snip was useful...

I think you’re on the right track, but that’s a pretty steep price for that particular era machine if you ask me, but I tend to search long and hard for better deals as opposed to paying dealer prices for quick and convenient purchases. I would rather have a Tersa head in a planer personally,


It's not the right one and I am willing to search.
How did you find your s50?

thanks for your taking the time to answer.

Jon Fiebing

Happy to offer my experiences, though they are limited compared to some here.

I found my S50 an hour down the road at a machinery dealer for $1500. This was after looking for that specific model for about 2 years prior and seeing exactly 3 available nationwide in that span of time. All of these others were more expensive (some by a factor of 2 or 3) and none of them were what I’d call close. My first experience buying from a dealer, but it was more like a typical used secondhand private party transaction as the dealer mostly dealt in larger scale, factory type production machines and larger CNC stuff. They’d acquired the S50 in a lot of other machines after buying out a closed up shop in the area and listed it on Machinio.com with no price and a few photos. I happened to see it and we worked out a deal. To think I had been looking for that model far and wide for 2 years and seeing a few listed for upwards of $5k and I found it the way I did makes me happy and enjoy the planer even more. It’s a fantastic and simple machine that doesn’t have the burden of electronic circuit boards that control all the functions, though the wiring on this era Italian machinery can be a gamble and not necessarily to be trusted.

The only thing that would make it better is a Tersa head, however I could not afford a newer (used) model SCMI S520 with Tersa head so I settled for an older, simpler machine with a 4 knife head. Maybe one day I could retrofit a Tersa head in it if I really wanted to.

Here’s a few photos of my machine.

[Jon Fiebing]

Phillip M.

Thank you for the nice story.

To someone who reads this post and who knows this forum- please start a thread for the following as it deserves to be read and disussed and homage paid. THanks in advance.


https://nbcmontana.com/news/local/rare-woodworking-machine-restored-in-kalispell-heads-to-smithsonian-museum





Rare woodworking machine restored in Kalispell heads to Smithsonian museum


by Vanessa Perez
Thursday, May 27th 2021


https://nbcmontana.com/resources/defaults/news_3.0/icons/social/facebook.svg (https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fnbcmontana.com%2Fnews%2 Flocal%2Frare-woodworking-machine-restored-in-kalispell-heads-to-smithsonian-museum)https://nbcmontana.com/resources/defaults/news_3.0/icons/social/twitter.svg (https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=Rare%20woodworking%20machine%20restored %20in%20Kalispell%20heads%20to%20Smithsonian%20mus eum&url=https%3A%2F%2Fnbcmontana.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2F rare-woodworking-machine-restored-in-kalispell-heads-to-smithsonian-museum)https://nbcmontana.com/resources/defaults/news_3.0/icons/social/email.svg



KALISPELL, Mont. — A rare Greenlee woodworking machine used in a Montana copper shop is now headed to a Smithsonian museum.

Steve Williams runs his Kalispell woodworking shop where he restores vintage machines to factory new conditions.
Williams says he’s had an ad on Craigslist for vintage woodworking machines wanted.
Three years ago, he got a phone call from a man in Chester, who had the 16-inch jointer machine. It had been sitting in a crate at his brother-in-law’s commercial farm near the Canadian border.


The machine does a variety of woodworking functions in an industrial environment.
Williams bought the machine and brought it back to Kalispell. He says he did research and found that the machine was originally purchased new by the Anaconda Copper Company in Great Falls in 1910.
Williams says he’s a part of a 20,000-member worldwide organization that's fascinated with woodworking machinery. He says the organization is confident that the machine is the last one in the world.
“There has been no mention of an existing machine, and one of us would know -- absolutely one of us would know,” Williams said.
Williams says he put in about 1,500 hours to restore the machine.
He says he notified the machine’s company, now owned by Emerson, about his plans to restore it.
“I just wanted them to know that this machine was still in existence, and it was going to have a new future,” Williams said.
He says the Smithsonian found out about the rare machine and showed interest a few weeks later.
Emerson provided the funding for the restoration, and the Smithsonian agreed to add it to their permanent collection at the National Museum of Industrial History Museum.
“They liked the idea of this machine because it was so unique, so rare, and had a great history -- great Montana history,” Williams said.






on vintage machinery is this one...


https://www.greenleediscovery.com/ourstory












Our StorListen to our latest NPR interview here:









https://www.northernpublicradio.org/post/rare-turn-century-greenlee-machine-join-national-museum-industrial-history







The 1910 Greenlee Variety Woodworker

I am Steve Williams. I’m a 72 year old Vietnam Vet who lives in Kalispell Montana. I operate a wood shop specializing in the reproduction of woodwork for historic buildings. I’ve also been restoring vintage woodworking machinery for 30 years. My machinery, like me is vintage… It’s restored to factory new condition and I use it every day.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Jon,

There is a very nice looking and much newer (2005 model) SCMI S630 with a helical cutterhead listed for sale today on Woodweb classifieds. It’s the same price as the much older and rougher Casadei you were considering a few weeks back and is also in Michigan. Might give it a peak.

[lowell holmes]

I prefer to go to the toy stores, Lowes and Home Depot to buy such a tool. Go shop and see if you still want the used one.

[Mike Kees]

Lowell there is nothing even close to the size/quality of planers that are being talked about in this thread available in a big box store.