Help with Tool Identification?

[John Serna]

Hey all.

Can you help me identify these handtools I'm going to look at tomorrow? I know the handplane, the various squares, and the pliers. What are the other tools and their uses?

Also, any idea what this lot would be worth? The guy wants to sell them all, and I have no idea what to offer. Thanks!

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[Stephen Rosenthal]

There’s a hand brace, single size tenon cutter (for use in the brace), various bevel gauges, a saw vise, at least one (maybe two) hand vise, and possibly a putty knife. What’s it worth? Depends on condition and whether you can use this stuff, but I wouldn’t offer more than $75, and then only if the planes are complete and the saw vise is functional and without any welded repairs.

[John Serna]

There’s a hand brace, single size tenon cutter (for use in the brace), various bevel gauges, a saw vise, at least one (maybe two) hand vise, and possibly a putty knife. What’s it worth? Depends on condition and whether you can use this stuff, but I wouldn’t offer more than $75, and then only if the planes are complete and the saw vise is functional and without any welded repairs.


Thank you. What is that black piece with the Japanning on the bottom right?

[Stephen Rosenthal]

That’s what I thought might be a second hand vise, but I’m looking at the photo on my phone and can’t be certain. Perhaps someone else will chime in with something more concrete.

[freiler thompson]

The tool that resembles pliers on the top right appears to be for punching holes in leather.

[Jim Koepke]

The tool that resembles pliers on the top right appears to be for punching holes in leather.

It also looks to be broken.

Not enough detail to see exactly what the tool on the bottom right is. It looks like it could be a saw wrest for setting teeth on timber saws. It could also be some kind of kitchen tool.

jtk

[Joe A Faulkner]

The Metal hand plane appears to be a Stanley. Assuming it is a number 4 in good condition, I think it and the saw vice, assuming in good condition together are worth $100. You aren’t paying shipping and I assume you are not paying sales tax. Are you buying these because you need them/have a use for them or to resell? If you enjoy “shopping” for old tools, I don’t know that $100 is a great buy for the lot, but if you are in the market for a smoother and a saw vice, it isn’t a terrible deal. The brace is some what of a wild card. It might be a fun tool to have in your collection, but will you ever use it? Bits are hard to come by and if you have a Miller’s Falls Egg Beater in good condition and a decent standard metal brace will you ever use this? As a novelty piece, I’ve seen these in antique malls priced $25-$75.

[John Serna]

The Metal hand plane appears to be a Stanley. Assuming it is a number 4 in good condition, I think it and the saw vice, assuming in good condition together are worth $100. You aren’t paying shipping and I assume you are not paying sales tax. Are you buying these because you need them/have a use for them or to resell? If you enjoy “shopping” for old tools, I don’t know that $100 is a great buy for the lot, but if you are in the market for a smoother and a saw vice, it isn’t a terrible deal. The brace is some what of a wild card. It might be a fun tool to have in your collection, but will you ever use it? Bits are hard to come by and if you have a Miller’s Falls Egg Beater in good condition and a decent standard metal brace will you ever use this? As a novelty piece, I’ve seen these in antique malls priced $25-$75.

Thanks.

I'm starting my first wood shop to mess around with the free time during Covid. I have very little training with wood, and I'm teaching myself as I go (so far so good!).
So they'd be for use. Though, if the entire lot is a good deal I'd even buy the ones I didn't need. I just don't even know what a few of them are.
I am going to meet the guy in a few minutes and have a look. I want the squares and plane for sure if they're in decent shape.
I was hoping to be more educated on the rest, but we shall see what happens!

[John Serna]

I purchased everything in the photo for $100. The plane is actually a Marsh - I never heard of them. It appears to be a No. 3 or so...smaller than my No. 4 plane.

Does anyone know about them? They belonged to this fellow's great grandfather, and he was born in 1865, so everything is quite old.

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Well John, you may have purchased a mini treasure chest. H.C. Marsh planes are very rare, somewhat collectible and, if in good condition, command a decent price (2-3x what you paid for the whole lot). A friend of mine has a Marsh Miter Vise, similar to the Stanley 400 that I have. I believe Stanley bought the company sometime in the mid to late 1920s.

I’m wondering if the partially pictured thing on the far right is the tool chest that housed this stuff. If it is it might be worth quite a bit as well.

At any rate, this discovery makes the other two planes much more interesting. Keep us posted on the other items once you’ve had a chance to examine them.

[John Serna]

Well John, you may have purchased a mini treasure chest. H.C. Marsh planes are very rare, somewhat collectible and, if in good condition, command a decent price (2-3x what you paid for the whole lot). A friend of mine has a Marsh Miter Vise, similar to the Stanley 400 that I have. I believe Stanley bought the company sometime in the mid to late 1920s.

I’m wondering if the partially pictured thing on the far right is the tool chest that housed this stuff. If it is it might be worth quite a bit as well.

At any rate, this discovery makes the other two planes much more interesting. Keep us posted on the other items once you’ve had a chance to examine them.

Thanks. That's good to hear, though I think I will keep most of what I bought. I had no idea about Marsh.

When I saw it has brass screws and given the year his great grandfather was born I figured t must be very old. It's very nice and clean other than there is a crack in the handle that's been repaired at some point, so I'm sure that dings it a bit.

The tool chest they all came in was his great grandfather's, and he wanted to keep that, which I of course approved of and he took that.

[John Serna]

Here are some images of what I think are the best tools and the condition. Two of the three bevel squares look to be ebony and brass, which is nice. The T squares can use restoration. I think those antique planes are rabbet planes? They don't seem to be worth much, and one is broken. The saw vice says no. 103 on it, which from my research suggests it's made by Seargant. What do you think of the condition of the plane? How big a deal is the crack in the handle?


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[Andrew Seemann]

It is hard to tell from a side view, but it looks like the wood planes are a (hopefully matched) set of tongue and groove planes. I'm not seeing anything obviously broken, other than the blade wedge, but that would be easy enough to replicate by tracing the broken piece and extrapolating the missing part from the one on the other plane.

On the #3, the handle looks like it has been broken and repaired. That probably affects value for collectablilty, but for a user, as long as the repair is solid, it will work just fine. Broken handles on old planes are not uncommon, due to the long cross grain of the handle. They are often Rosewood, which is nice and strong, but if you do have to do a repair, the oiliness of the wood can make gluing them back together again a little tricky. A wipe of acetone prior to gluing can help.

[John Serna]

Thanks, Andrew. Here is the blade on those antique wooden planes. I thought it was a rabbet plane, but your suggestion looks right.

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[Jim Koepke]

As Andrew mentioned the two wooden planes are match planes.

Here is a thread with information for making a wedge along with other things > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?242156 < you will need to be come a contributor to see the images.

jtk

[Lee Schierer]

I believe the small tool with the wing nut located between the Marsh Plane and the saw vise is a spoke adjusting tool for a bicycle or motorcycle.

[Jim Koepke]

I believe the small tool with the wing nut located between the Marsh Plane and the saw vise is a spoke adjusting tool for a bicycle or motorcycle.

The one that looks like a pliers is a ring crimping tool. Sometimes called a hog ring pliers. The wing nut is to adjust it for different amounts of compression. It is often used to crimp rings at the top of a chain link fence to attach it to a cable.

The other item with a wing nut in that area looks to be a hand held vise often used by jewelers.

None of my spoke wrenches from my bicycling days looked like that.

jtk

[John Serna]

I believe the small tool with the wing nut located between the Marsh Plane and the saw vise is a spoke adjusting tool for a bicycle or motorcycle.


Thanks! I was wondering what that one was.

[Stan Coryell]

The pliers at the bottom center are for "cyclone " or chain link fence (twisting the tie wire).

[Lee Schierer]

None of my spoke wrenches from my bicycling days looked like that.

jtk

No offense Jim, but you aren't old enough to have used one like that.

Do a search for "antique spoke adjuster" and you will see many examples. My grandfather had one that he used.

[Jim Koepke]

No offense Jim, but you aren't old enough to have used one like that.

Do a search for "antique spoke adjuster" and you will see many examples. My grandfather had one that he used.

Being before my time would explain it.

How would you turn a spoke with one of those? You would have to be constantly removing it and resetting it.

My wheel building and adjusting was always on bicycle wheels. Never on a motorcycle.

jtk

[steven c newman]

AKA...Lineman's Pliers....

Hand drill brace is missing the top pad....would have to turn a new one.

CarpentersPincers....used to pull nails. Blacksmiths also used them.


Tip on a new wedge...oversize it just a bit...and make new ones for both planes...as the one ones are usually worn down quite a bit from use. Also note how the end of the wedges are shaped, as the wedges helped start the shavings out the sides of the planes.

[John Serna]

AKA...Lineman's Pliers....

Hand drill brace is missing the top pad....would have to turn a new one.

CarpentersPincers....used to pull nails. Blacksmiths also used them.


Tip on a new wedge...oversize it just a bit...and make new ones for both planes...as the one ones are usually worn down quite a bit from use. Also note how the end of the wedges are shaped, as the wedges helped start the shavings out the sides of the planes.

That's fantastic info, thanks. In remaking the brace's pad, how do you remake the grooves that the metal screws onto?
I literally just bought a lathe a month ago and have never used it. Sounds like a cool first project.

[Lee Schierer]

How would you turn a spoke with one of those? You would have to be constantly removing it and resetting it.

My wheel building and adjusting was always on bicycle wheels. Never on a motorcycle.

jtk

You align the spoke in the space between the jaws so the wrench is aligned with the spoke. Then you adjust the wing nut to tighten the jaws on the spoke nut. Once it is tight you twirl the wrench around the spoke to tighten or loosen the spoke. Some have a small hook at the end opposite the jaws that slips around the spoke to help hold it in place. This is only second one I've seen. My Dad had the one that belonged to my Grandfather, but I no longer know where it is.
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Here is some information on the one shown above:
Here is a very nice ANTIQUE PATENTED BICYCLE WRENCH-SPOKE TOOL MANUFACTURED BY THE A. DUDLEY MFG. COMPANY OF MENOMINEE, MICHIGAN . The patent date on this fine tool is MAY 29, 1894 . This small handy tool is in excellent condition, very clean and it adjusts easily. It also has a nice clean makers imprint. This small tool measures just 3-3/4 inches in length. It was carried by the cyclist of years ago and it was used to adjust the wheel spokes of tires when they became loose or out of round.

[Lee Schierer]

Did anyone identify the tool between the two T-bevels? If not can we get a better photo or two of it?

[Jim Koepke]

Did anyone identify the tool between the two T-bevels? If not can we get a better photo or two of it?

That and the spoke wrench thing. For some reason it looks more like small vise jaws to me.

jtk

[John Serna]

Of the three bevels, two have no markings, and the third is a Stanley with a patent date of 9-06-04 (i.e. 1904). That's nice it's a Stanley. That wasn't visible until I cleaned them up today.

[Stan Coryell]

AKA...Lineman's Pliers....

Hand drill brace is missing the top pad....would have to turn a new one.

CarpentersPincers....used to pull nails. Blacksmiths also used them.


Tip on a new wedge...oversize it just a bit...and make new ones for both planes...as the one ones are usually worn down quite a bit from use. Also note how the end of the wedges are shaped, as the wedges helped start the shavings out the sides of the planes.

Linesman's Pliers, or "nine's" as a Lineman would call them, have a square nose and a side cutter. Fence pliers have a short tapered nose and bypass cutters.

[Tom Bender]

Just a warning John, you're on a knife edge. Fall one way into woodworking, the other way is into the morass of tool collecting.

[Stew Denton]

John, the view that is needed is the view down the length of the plane, so the profile of the iron can be seen. It would help if that profile could be seen on both planes.

Stew