Oops, I reversed my pins and tails

[Matthew Curtis]

How big of issue is reversing the pins and tails on a kitchen drawer? I used TB3 to glue it together.

I know I won't have the mechanical strength but do I really need it?

[Bruce King]

All that glue surface will make a very strong joint, no worries. Soft close slides would add more safety factor too.

[Phil Gaudio]

If you are using ball bearing slides, it matters not. If not, it may matter, a little.

[Todd Trebuna]

Amateur, but just thinking this though...I don’t thing it will make an issue short term. Theoretically over time if the glue fails, you might pull the front off, although that seems very unlikely.

[Frank Pratt]

If the joints are snug you'll have no issue with it. With modern adhesives, dovetails are really more of an esthetic thing. I love the look of dovetails, especially when they are not made with a jig.

[Jim Matthews]

If you do it again: the Seas will boil, the Sky will open an a Host of Angels will descend apon the Earth.

When no one will validate their parking, the whole thing will get called off.

[Thomas Wilson]

Surely somewhere, someone has made a YouTube video with hydraulic jack equipped with a pressure gauge breaking dovetail joints apart in both directions. Monsieur Googlée, do your thing!

[Jack Lilley]

It's an issue it you had the drawers sized for the openings properly. Reversing pins and tails changes the sizing. Don't ask how I know. lol

[Derek Cohen]

Matthew, I did that with a chest of drawers I built my son 16 years ago (then 11 years old) ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/A%20Chest%20of%20Drawers%20for%20Jamie_html_5003f1 6.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/A%20Chest%20of%20Drawers%20for%20Jamie_html_m21c57 c80.jpg

Not only has it been strong, but it has withstood three moves he has made, taking it with him.

He has no idea that the dovetails are reversed, and we will keep it as our little secret :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Matthew Hills]

How big of issue is reversing the pins and tails on a kitchen drawer? I used TB3 to glue it together.

I know I won't have the mechanical strength but do I really need it?

Sounds like a box joint; a tricky joint to do well by hand.

Are these through-dovetails with a separate drawer face, or are you seeing pins through the drawer front?

Matt

[Phil Gaudio]

I assume this is what you meant by reversing pins and tails (see below). This joint relies exclusively on the friction fit between the pins and tails and more importantly the glue bond. Of course, on a tiny drawer like this, it also matters not. if you are building kitchen cabinets and using, e.g., Accuride or Blum drawer slides, then the forces on this joint would be minimal. If on the other hand you were not using drawer slides, this pin/tail reversal would be problematic.

https://i.postimg.cc/SNBFDSg9/fullsizeoutput-94e.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Matthew Curtis]

I assume this is what you meant by reversing pins and tails (see below). This joint relies exclusively on the friction fit between the pins and tails and more importantly the glue bond. Of course, on a tiny drawer like this, it also matters not. if you are building kitchen cabinets and using, e.g., Accuride or Blum drawer slides, then the forces on this joint would be minimal. If on the other hand you were not using drawer slides, this pin/tail reversal would be problematic.

https://i.postimg.cc/SNBFDSg9/fullsizeoutput-94e.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Yes. Like this pic. Through dovetails. With addition face. I will not see the through dovetails.

[Phil Gaudio]

Yes. Like this pic. Through dovetails. With addition face. I will not see the through dovetails.

OK: so are you using drawer slides?

[Derek Cohen]

If the tails and pins are similar in size, reversing will not affect the strength of the joint. The use of a drawer slide is irrelevant.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bill Space]

If the tails and pins are similar in size, reversing will not affect the strength of the joint. The use of a drawer slide is irrelevant.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

He reversed the orientation just like if you would take a normal drawer and rotate it 90 degrees...no the same way as in your picture in the post above...

[Phil Gaudio]

Derek: if I understand your comment correctly, I must completely disagree. In the photo you posted, the pins and tails are oriented correctly. The picture I posted shows a pin/tail configuration that is completely wrong. There is no mechanical advantage to the orientation I presented: it relies solely on the glue. Your picture, if I can believe what I a seeing, shows a pin/tail configuration that takes advantage of the inherent, basic advantage of the DT joint. The OP has indicated that his drawer is consistent with the pin/tail orientation in my photo. If that's the case, its not a good way to take advantage of the basic advantage of a DT joint. Without going into a detailed mechanical analysis, if you do the DTs backwards (as it were), the only saving grace is the use of modern drawer slides, which greatly influences the forces at play when a drawer is opened. Were I building a kitchen full of drawers, I'd never construct a drawer like the one I posted. If its a one-off oopps: I'd probably roll the dice and live with it. However, if I built a drawer for a kitchen that was not employing drawer slides:I'd throw that drawer in the burn pile, and make a new one. Phil



If the tails and pins are similar in size, reversing will not affect the strength of the joint. The use of a drawer slide is irrelevant.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Henderson]

Matthew, I did that with a chest of drawers I built my son 16 years ago (then 11 years old) ...



Not only has it been strong, but it has withstood three moves he has made, taking it with him.

He has no idea that the dovetails are reversed, and we will keep it as our little secret :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

That does not look like reversed pins and tails, Derek. You still have tails on the side, just small ones. That's quite a good job for when you were 11 years old:)

Mike

[johnny means]

With modern glue and a tight fit, those drawers will last forever. The need for a mechanical lock is from days long gone. Personally, I would remake the offending drawers if it were for a client. I would happily live with them if it were for personal use.

[Phil Gaudio]

I think the problem here is that Derek is such an advanced woodworker that he cant fathom how backwards mere mortal woodworkers can mis-construct this basic joint:)



That does not look like reversed pins and tails, Derek. You still have tails on the side, just small ones. That's quite a good job for when you were 11 years old:)

Mike

[Bradley Gray]

johnny nailed it - its a glued box joint. I would still replace it on a job but not for myself.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Derek: if I understand your comment correctly, I must completely disagree. In the photo you posted, the pins and tails are oriented correctly.

I thought that it was off on ONE drawer.

[Dave Zellers]

That's quite a good job for when you were 11 years old:)

Good one! :) He has even more of my respect if he was a father at 11. :D

[Derek Cohen]

:D

Regards from Perth

Derek (still precocious)

[Rob Luter]

Matthew, I did that with a chest of drawers I built my son 16 years ago (then 11 years old) ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/A%20Chest%20of%20Drawers%20for%20Jamie_html_5003f1 6.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/A%20Chest%20of%20Drawers%20for%20Jamie_html_m21c57 c80.jpg

Not only has it been strong, but it has withstood three moves he has made, taking it with him.

He has no idea that the dovetails are reversed, and we will keep it as our little secret :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

These pics bring back memories. In about 1940 my grandparents purchased a bed and dresser for my mother. It was maple and a Shaker style with turned apple drawer pulls. Over the years I used it as a child, as did my younger brother and my Daughter. It's since moved on to my Niece for her first born. Over the years it has aged to a rich honey color like this chest. I'm hoping your chest moves through a few generations too.

[Larry Edgerton]

Get some exotic dowels of a small size, drill down from the top two tails and slide the dowels in, saw flush. I do only box joints in kitchens and pin each corner as described, more for looks really, but have never had a failure. More than I can say for the machine cut dovetails I used to use. With a purpleheart or some such dowel people always comment on it and like the look. A couple of more high end kitchens I used two dowels, one inside the man one just far enough that it looks like a little target, was fun and a hit with the customer.

Just a thought t take away your stress.........

[Tom Bender]

The drawer back probably sees more stress than the front because stuff in the drawer slams into it when the drawer is slammed. Whack! and the glue cracks.

[Mike Henderson]

The drawer back probably sees more stress than the front because stuff in the drawer slams into it when the drawer is slammed. Whack! and the glue cracks.

My experience has been the opposite. People "slam" a drawer and the front whacks the body of the chest. I've only seen poorly made drawers break at the front, never the back.

Mike

[johnny means]

The drawer back probably sees more stress than the front because stuff in the drawer slams into it when the drawer is slammed. Whack! and the glue cracks.
You storing bowling balls in your drawers? Several hundred years of drawer design seems to indicate that the front is the most stressed area.