Grizzly

[jeff friedman]

In the world of semi professional woodworking tools such as cabinet saws or planers I have noticed the Grizzly’s equivalent tend to be a few hundred cheaper that the competition, such as Jet, Sawstop, Powematic, Delta, etc. Can someone explain what I would be missing with the 3hp cabinet saw or 15 inch planer with Grizzly over the like models with the competition?

[sean meltvedt]

I have each of the mentioned Brands in my shop, I find nothing missing for the money saved with Grizzly. To top things off, Grizzly still stocks parts for my oldest 1998 vintage machine. I even had to use Grizzly parts in my Delta planer because Delta parts are non existent. So I’m a Grizzly fan!

[Ronald Blue]

There are many happy owners of Grizzly on this forum and elsewhere. Unless you are going with a SawStop you are throwing your money away paying a premium for white or yellow paint. Delta is a nonstarter these days unless you are looking at old iron. They have basically deserted the customer with no parts availability and no customer support. That and they are on the high end of the price point.

[Bob Jones 5443]

Too true, Ronald. Times change. I love my reliable, powerful 3 HP Delta Unisaw, made in 1997. My perception of Delta has been frozen with this machine, plus my 16" drill press and 12" planer of similar vintage. But all I read here is that Delta is essentially missing in action. Too bad.

[jeff friedman]

Go to the grizzly site and take a look at these two 3hp cabinet saw models G0651 vs G1023RLX. Need the 50 inch plus fence since i will be making cabinet boxes in a semi pro / hobby output. What is the difference between these two models? Besides the G0651 having a outfeed table.

[Andrew More]

A couple of differences to keep in mind about Jet/Powermatic and Grizzly. First, Jet/Powermatic have 5 year warranties, Grizzly is usually a 1 year warranty. Second, Grizzly is available via catalog only, and you should usually add a couple hundred for freight and lift gate service on larger purchases. Third, sometimes there are subtle differences that go beyond paint.

Just bought a ShopFox 15" planer w1742, which had a list of about $1K less than the Powermatic version, which appears to be identical. However, closing inspection revealed that the cast iron tables on the Powermatic were a couple of inches longer. Talking with the dealer they also pointed out that the usually get a little quicker response time for parts, though both will be able to deliver the part. Having ordered a Grizzly G0490X, I ran into an issue where the planer was listed as in stock, but in fact was back ordered (could be I was just a little late to the party, an another order took the last one in stock). This meant that I ended up having to wait about a month or so to get the planer. With Powermatic/Jet being at the dealer, you should be able to get it that day.

Incidentally I also checking out the Jet 15" planer in my local wood working store, and the current models appear to be bolt for bolt the same as the Grizzly G0890 and G0891.

[Peter Kelly]

It looks as though the G0651 model comes with a digital blade angle indicator and weighs in at 602 lbs as opposed to the G1023RLX at 522 lbs. The G0651 model may come with a slightly more efficient 13a motor as opposed to the G1023RLX 14a motor. Both saws appear to be made in Taiwan.

I'm guessing the G0651 is probably worth the extra $500. May want to call them and ask directly though.

[Andrew More]

Go to the grizzly site and take a look at these two 3hp cabinet saw models G0651 vs G1023RLX. Need the 50 inch plus fence since i will be making cabinet boxes in a semi pro / hobby output. What is the difference between these two models? Besides the G0651 having a outfeed table.


Looks like there are quite a few. You can see this by looking at the Grizzly comparison tool. The biggest one I'm noticing is the cast iron tables seem to have substantial differences.

[Dave Zellers]

The old business model was buy a name brand and then squeeze the customer for every penny by cheapening the product relentlessly until you have squeezed them dry. Then sell the brand. Porter Cable.

The new business model (which is the oldest business model) is build a new brand, by providing inexpensive but workable tools, and then as the new business model becomes profitable, plow the profits back into the business and improve the product line. See Grizzly and now Harbor Freight.

They are both filling the void left by Porter Cable as well as following the classic model of how you create a brand that customers will be loyal to.

It is classic free enterprise. Whoever owns Porter Cable today has a 10 year or more customer trust hill to climb.

[Richard Coers]

A couple of differences to keep in mind about Jet/Powermatic and Grizzly. First, Jet/Powermatic have 5 year warranties, Grizzly is usually a 1 year warranty. Second, Grizzly is available via catalog only, and you should usually add a couple hundred for freight and lift gate service on larger purchases. Third, sometimes there are subtle differences that go beyond paint.

Just bought a ShopFox 15" planer w1742, which had a list of about $1K less than the Powermatic version, which appears to be identical. However, closing inspection revealed that the cast iron tables on the Powermatic were a couple of inches longer. Talking with the dealer they also pointed out that the usually get a little quicker response time for parts, though both will be able to deliver the part. Having ordered a Grizzly G0490X, I ran into an issue where the planer was listed as in stock, but in fact was back ordered (could be I was just a little late to the party, an another order took the last one in stock). This meant that I ended up having to wait about a month or so to get the planer. With Powermatic/Jet being at the dealer, you should be able to get it that day.

Incidentally I also checking out the Jet 15" planer in my local wood working store, and the current models appear to be bolt for bolt the same as the Grizzly G0890 and G0891.
Correct on the warranty. Check Shop Fox for an extra year on the warranty. Identical machines as Grizzly, just painted white.

[Bryan Cramer]

The difference is in the details mostly with the fit and finish. The switches feel cheaply made but work, the decals fall off and the paint missed a few spots. Does it matter how the planer cuts? No. The table saw table was dead flat but the wing has a slight crown in it leaving a bump you can feel in the middle where it joins. Does it affect anything? No. You get what you pay for. Grizzly cuts corners outside of where it matters.

[Lisa Starr]

I have a Grizzly GL1023 that is old. It has just worked since the day I received it. Did the decals fall off...no, did the paint chip...no. I have everything from Rigid to Grizzly to Hammer in my shop. It would be nice if the TS had a riving knife, but that is no fault of Grizzly. It is just the vintage of the machine.

[Bill Space]

Go to the grizzly site and take a look at these two 3hp cabinet saw models G0651 vs G1023RLX. Need the 50 inch plus fence since i will be making cabinet boxes in a semi pro / hobby output. What is the difference between these two models? Besides the G0651 having a outfeed table.

I have a grizzly G1023RLWX. Perfect saw for me.

The G1023 uses a serpentine belt rather than multiple V Belts. The mechanism that raises/tilts the blade is a different design, more like a machine tool than the traditional Unisaw type trunion.

I am not familiar with G0651. It may be of the older design and use multiple V belts. Either design is proven. I liked the idea of a single belt if I need to change it someday. Could just be me.

[William Chain]

You're going to find a camp of passionate and satisfied Grizzly fans, a camp of people that think Grizzly is garbage, and then the inbetweeners. I think Bryan has it right - you get what you pay for. The difference is mostly in the details. I compare my Grizzly machines (what I haven't sold on) as like those old school handouts. We all had a teacher that used an old handout, perhaps a xerox of a xerox. Everything was there, but a bit fuzzy. Yeh, my bandsaw was a 14" bandsaw, like the 123423407 other ones out there. I got it at an attractive price point. But everything was just a bit cheap. I got what I paid for. The bearings were trash. Replaced them. The fence was trash, replaced that. This, that and the other thing. By the time I was done making the thing workable the way I wanted to work, I tallied up the spend and yep, coulda just bought the one I was too cheap to buy in the first place. I ended up selling that bandsaw on and buying the one I wanted from the start. Lesson learned. My buddy had the exact same experience with a table saw. Got in a 110V, 1.75HP (I think) unit in. He wanted a SS, but wouldn't pay the price. Whatever, not a problem. We assembled the Grizzly. Cheap switch, replaced that. Atrocious fence and rails, put on a nice aftermarket fence. A few other details. We tallied up the total spend, and again, it was within spitting distance of the SS contractor saw he balked at.

To be clear, neither I nor my buddy are mad about our experience. We got what we paid for. And for our experiences, I don't think either one of us will buy a Grizzly again.

For every one of those stories, you'll read another of a perfect experience. But, I think that's the same with just about every manufacturer - do your homework. Indeed, some of these machines are bolt for bolt identical to the big boys. And that's great, save your money if you like. But many of these machines are the fuzzy xerox. Do your homework, that's all I can say.


The difference is in the details mostly with the fit and finish. The switches feel cheaply made but work, the decals fall off and the paint missed a few spots. Does it matter how the planer cuts? No. The table saw table was dead flat but the wing has a slight crown in it leaving a bump you can feel in the middle where it joins. Does it affect anything? No. You get what you pay for. Grizzly cuts corners outside of where it matters.

[Brian Tymchak]

Not any kind of an economic expert, but I think one significant difference between Grizzly and the others is Grizzly's business model is direct to consumer vs being sold through a retailer. Those retailers have to make some money.

Interesting point made above regarding difference in warranty though. I had not realized that.

[Richard Coers]

Not any kind of an economic expert, but I think one significant difference between Grizzly and the others is Grizzly's business model is direct to consumer vs being sold through a retailer. Those retailers have to make some money.

Interesting point made above regarding difference in warranty though. I had not realized that.
I was under the impression that Shop Fox and Grizzly sold at the same price. They are identical except that Shop Fox is sold through other retailers. Does that shoot a hole in the theory of Grizzly gives the best price because of no middleman? Just asking.

[Gordon Stump]

At this point in the evolution of Grizzly, I consider their machines to be professional quality. My older Grizzly machines were entry level but not anymore. Parts: I rebuilt my 1990 G1023 3HP cabinet saw and Grizzly had the parts in stock. Still a very solid cabinet saw.

[Alex Zeller]

A friend worked at a local bearing shop about 20 years ago before he moved south. While working there he had lots of insight into all things bearings. I've always bought Tinken bearings the few times I've needed to replace one in part because of where the company makes some of them. We got to talking about it and he was telling me that the Chinese had come a long way from when they were seen as not worth the effort to install. My guess is Grizzly can sell for less simply because they use parts that are a little less pricey (say bearings made by a lesser known company). It also looks like their specifications are slightly less than Powermatic. Does a jointer table need to be flat within +/- .001 or is .003 good enough? Getting that last little bit can be very expensive. I would also guess, since a lot of these tools are made in the same factory, a part that's not flat enough for Powermatic may get painted green for use on a Grizzly. It's probably why Grizzy has a 1 year warranty (and Shop Fox a 2 year) when other brands like Powermatic have a 5 year warranty.

I have 5 major Grizzly tools. A mixture of which are made in China and Taiwan. 4 of the 5 have been excellent for my uses. One, a stand alone hollow chisel mortiser made in China, was very Chinese. I probably should have sent it back but I just modified it. If had been my first Grizzly tool my opinion of them would be much lower. With Grizzly you are the technician. They don't have any support network of people who can come to you to repair the tool. They try to resolve the problem vs have a tool returned to them. This can lead to extended time trying to resolve a problem and can be frustrating. These are some of the reasons why they can sell tools for a lower price. If you end up with a bad tool you're opinion is going to be lower, if you get a good one you're going to be happy. I believe the tools that are popular, like the table saws are, usually more likely to be a good tool. Imagine a worker who makes parts occasionally for a low selling tool vs making lots of parts for a popular tool, the stuff you do all the time is usually much easier to make.

I can't help with the table saw but if I needed a new saw and didn't have or want to spend Saw Stop kind of money Grizzly would be at the top of my list.

[Alex Zeller]

At this point in the evolution of Grizzly, I consider their machines to be professional quality. My older Grizzly machines were entry level but not anymore. Parts: I rebuilt my 1990 G1023 3HP cabinet saw and Grizzly had the parts in stock. Still a very solid cabinet saw.

I have a Powermatic 66 table saw made in 95 and almost no parts are still made for it. This is another plus for Grizzly in my eyes.

[Andrew More]

Used to own an original G1023 table saw. Ran fine, no issues, very flat. The fence was an odd size, which only really mattered when I tried to extend it, and couldn't find any steel tube that was 1 7/8", and the 2" and 1 3/4" did not fit the fence well enough to use.

While you might get what you pay for, sometimes what you're paying for is just a name brand, and the prestige behind that brand. You can see this in the car market where the Toyota Camry is not considered a sexy, exciting car, but the owners have no issues with it. I'd consider a lot of the Grizzly stuff to be closer to a Toyota Camry than a Lexus, which seems more the place of Powermatic.

That having been said, I might have a different opinion if I needed to use the tool everyday for a living, and couldn't have it stop for a couple of days down time. As a hobbyist a couple of days downtime, or tinkering with it is annoying, but not catastrophic.

I also think you need to take a very close look at the differences for the specific tool you're talking about. With as wide a catalogue as Grizzly has right now, there are bound to be some duds.

[Bill Space]

One thing I THINK I learned in life, is the 80/20 rule. Could be the 30/70 rule. But something like that.

You get 80% of the value(usefulness) out of the first 20% you invest in something. If you want perfection, you pay a lot more, and the functionality per dollar spent decreases dramatically.

Following this idea, I am very satisfied with my Grizzly power tools. Best available? NOPE! Best bang for the buck? PROBABLY.

Edit: I did swing my 52" unifence over to the G1023RLWX though...never tried the stock fence...still in the box...

[Gordon Stump]

G1023 Grizzly fence, I gave it away. My Vega fence has never failed in 30 years!

[Ronald Blue]

One thing to consider. Some people have their opinion formed from Grizzly machines made in the 80's when they were just starting out. No question some were low quality. They were also the ones that probably had chipping paint and decals falling off. Sometimes people hold on to a first impression from years ago and think it's still true. However the flip side of that is the Mustard yellow and white twins that used to be much higher quality no longer hold that distinction.
As for the comment about bearings. You should do a little research there. As far as I know all major bearing manufacturers (Timken, SKF, NTN at least) have manufacturing facilities in China. I've used lot's of Chinese bearings on equipment over the years with no drop off in performance that I was able to detect. The components they were installed in failed before they did.
One other thing to consider. The owner of Grizzly is an accomplished woodworker and you can find some videos here showing his work. He also has been known to weigh in in some instances when someone has had issues. I've never saw anything to indicate the owner(s) of Jet/PM know which end is which of their tools.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

In my shop I have PowerMatic, Mini-Max, General International, Excalibur, Ridgid, Dewalt, Oneida, and Grizzly. The two Grizzly tools I have are my jointer (G490X) and a stand mounted 12"- disk/spindle sander. Both of my Grizzly tools have performed well especially if you consider what the PM equivalents would have cost me. IMO, most Grizzly tools are a great bang for the buck. A former customer of mine from central Michigan and I once argued about the quality of the Grizzly tools. He said the ones he saw on the farm in Michigan were terrible. A devout 7th Day Adventist one day he had the opportunity to tour a nearby religious HS which had a woodworking shop outfitted with Grizzly tools. The next time I ran into John at work, he said he was amazed at the difference in quality from what he'd seen in the quality of Grizzly tools a decade or more earlier on a Michigan farm.

A jointer performs a pretty simple operation and when I chose the Grizzly equivalent over the PM I saved a lot of money. Looking at the current prices, the Grizzly G0490X would save $550 over the cost of the PM. Is it worth it? That's subjective. I am a hobbyist woodworker, retired on a fixed income. To me, I can't justify have the best tools of all types. I try to buy the best quality I can afford while considering how much I will use it.

My bandsaw is a Mini-Max (SCM), my table saw is a Ridgid, my DC is an Oneida, my SCMS is a Dewalt. The fit and finish on these are a little better than on my Grizzly tools but the Grizzly tools have worked well for me. As someone pointed out, the owner of Grizzly monitors this site and others. He has on occasion gotten involved in some problems that have cropped up. It wasn't too long after I joined one Creeker bought a brand new bandsaw, IIRC. He picked it up in his pickup at a truck depot, was driving it home, went around a curve a little to fast for the bandsaw. The bandsaw flipped out and landed on the ground damaging it. Shiraz Balolia, owner of Grizzly, read the thread here and volunteered to send the necessary parts to the Creeker at no charge. He didn't have to do that, he had no responsibility in the situation but he was being extremely generous and sympathetic with the guy's situation.