Looking for advice on sliding table saw purchase

[Christopher Solar]

Hi-

I'm weighing the options for adding a sliding saw to my shop. I have a SawStop PCS at the moment but I've come to think that a slider is going to be a lot more helpful in the kind of work I do. (I'll probably keep the cabinet saw, albeit chopped down to a smaller footprint.) I have room for a 8' slider (2600mm stroke). 10' is a little big. I have 3-phase available if I need it. I don't have any 3ph machines now, but courtesy of the previous shop tenant there's 3ph/600v panel with "sliding table saw" written on it. I'm in Ottawa, Canada.

The contenders at the moment are these three, all fairly close in price:

- new Minimax sc4e (around $12k CAD)
- new Cantek D405M-8 (also around $13k CAD)
- (lightly) used Altendorf WA-6 (around $10k CAD)

I got a quote for a Felder K500s as well, but it's a few $k more, and not sure it's worth it.

The Minimax is appealing in terms of how it's equipped, the dealer/service is not that far away (Montreal), and I can continue to use my existing 10" blades and 8" dado blades if I want. Downside perhaps is that the scoring unit is belt-driven off the main motor...but I don't think that's a big deal for me and what I do.

Cantek has a good support network but somehow the saw features do not seem quite as good.

The Altendorf is tempting because I think that saw is normally more like $15-16k. Would I need a technician to set it up, though? Support would be through Akhurst, the same dealer for the Cantek.


If anyone has experience with any of these saws or other brands I should consider, let me know! I've not seen any of these machines in person, not sure when I'd be able to.

Thanks,

Chris.

[Jim Becker]

I have a MiniMax S315WS which has similar capacities/characteristics to the SC4e you are considering. I'm extremely pleased with it. What I appreciate is that it uses standard tooling, too.

[Mike Kees]

Chris out of Minimax or Cantek I think I would go Minimax. I own a Cantek planer that is an excellent machine just as well made and works as well as my Italian stuff. However I have never used a slider made by Cantek. Minimax dealer in Calgary had one sitting in his warehouse that he offered me cheap, it needed a part that he had ordered a year earlier. I am not familiar with the Altendorf you mentioned, it must be a entry level for them. The ones I have seen started at about 40000, those are real nice saws comparable or maybe even better than Martin. I ended up with a Felder k700s that I purchased very slightly used (one kitchen). Before I found this machine I was leaning Minimax/SCM. Truthfully you would be happy either way( Minimax/Felder).

[David Kumm]

The Cantek and Altendorf might be made in the same place. I'd look at the WA 6 just for info as I think while they are the lower end entry, they are well made. If you are cutting 8' sheets you want something a little longer. 8.5' would be my minimum. Dave

[Christopher Solar]

Thanks, Jim. I'd consider the 315 also but they don't import it with the 8' table, only 10'.

[Christopher Solar]

Thanks, Mike. It seems like with sliders (as with every other tool) there are several brands selling what looks like the same Taiwanese machine plus or minus some details. In Canada there's Cantek, CWI, Holytek, plus Grizzly I guess. Without seeing these in person it's hard to know if the quality is there. There's definitely a comfort factor associated with a more established name like SCM or Felder.

The WA-6 is the smallest Altendorf, and I believe it's made in Taiwan as well.

[Christopher Solar]

Thanks David. The saws I'm considering have a 2600mm stroke or 102". It's very rare that I need to do an 8' cut, but 6-7' is common, so I think that size of machine will work well. If I could fit a 10' I'd go for it!

[Jim Becker]

Thanks, Jim. I'd consider the 315 also but they don't import it with the 8' table, only 10'.
Yes, that's true. But you can feel good about the SC4e because it really is nearly the equivalent of the "larger" S315WS since they don't bring in the 8'6" wagon version of the latter like I have in my shop at this point. If I had to sell my current slider and was going to replace with one with the same size wagon, I'd buy the SC4e in a heartbeat. (I actually may need to do something as we're planning a "downsize move" and if whatever the future shop ends up to be requires it, I may need to step down to a short stroke, such as the SC3, but it will be in the same family for sure)

[Christopher Solar]

It seems like the main difference is the second motor for the scoring unit. Plus (if website photos are to be believed) an indicator dial in the angle handwheel and a handle on the slide. Older sc4e's had a mechanical digital angle indicator but not any more -- it's just a pointer on a scale now.

On your saw, can the main squaring fence be positioned at the front or the back of the outrigger table, or only at the back?
If you remove the squaring fence from the outrigger, is it easy to put back without having to recalibrate it?

Do you have an overarm guard/shroud, or just the orange one attached to the riving knife? The overarm guard is a $1000CAD option if I want it. It looks like it would be a lot more convenient in use and more likely to be always there where it's needed. Any thoughts on that?

Chris.

[Peter Kelly]

The WA-6 is the smallest Altendorf, and I believe it's made in Taiwan as well.The WA6 and WA8 are made in Quingdao China. https://www.altendorf.com/en/company/locations.html

I'd definitely go with the Minimax SC4e.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I'll only add that my Felder has a belt drive scoring blade, and I've never considered it a drawback. It runs all the time, but it's below the table so it doesn't matter.

[Mike Kees]

The overarm guard is very nice to work with. I am sure Felder wanted at least $1000 more for theirs as well. My saw has separate scoring motors. It seems to me that heavier /beefier trunnions and separate scoring motors are two of the main differences between entry level sliders and more industrial machines. Depending on your intended use of the saw that may or may not make any difference to you.

[Jim Becker]

The fence on the outrigger "can" be repositioned to the trailing edge on my machine, but I'd never do that. I use the small miter fence for crosscutting with a "pull" at the other end of the wagon for that. When I don't need the outrigger, I can take it completely off without affecting the fence, which I have zeroed in. But that's a rare thing as the outrigger comes in handy for a lot of things not related to actually cutting material, such as organizing the stuff I'm cutting at the other end or supporting material while I'm working with my J/P which is closeby.

My machine doesn't currently have an overarm guard because of the configuration of my shop and the slanted bottom of a stairway that's over the saw. I do not generally use the guard that attaches to the top of the riving knife and have the riving knife set just below the height of the blade as I do a lot of non-through cutting. I will be adding an overarm guard in a future shop. You do not need to use the SCM/Minimax overarm guard/collector...there are other options. While it's not an option for you in Canada, to the best of my knowledge, I might even buy the Grizzly stand alone overarm setup when the time comes to add one, if it does.

The SE4e has a separate scoring motor as an option which would make it the same as my older S315WS. That make come down to how it's packaged in your geography. I don't use scoring a lot, so honestly, I personally wouldn't care about it so much, but for heavy use, I'd want the separate motor.

[Brian W Evans]

Christopher,

I have a SC4E and am extremely pleased with it. I am a hobbiest, so not using my saw every day. Not sure what your use case will be. The saw has a 5 HP motor (+/-) and the scoring blade is small and doesn't protrude from the table very much. I don't think you'll notice any slowdowns because the main and scoring blades are using the same motor.

I don't have the SCM overhead guard. I bought a Grizzly version for about $300 IIRC. It works well and I am convinced I wouldn't enjoy the SCM version $600 more. I never use the guard that attaches to the riving knife.

The squaring fence can be positioned at the front or back of the outrigger, but I always leave it at the back, and always leave the outrigger on for the same reasons Jim does. The adjustments for the squaring fence are simple but very effective and hold their settings well. You can remove the squaring fence and put it back on without having to recalibrate.

Let me know if you have any more questions about the SC4E and I will do my best to answer them.

[Mick Simon]

Older sc4e's had a mechanical digital angle indicator but not any more -- it's just a pointer on a scale now.

Chris.

My 2 month old SC4E has a digital scale. I believe it depends on the "package" that the vendor orders it.
I'm very happy with my SC4E. I'll be ordering an overarm guard this week, probably aftermarket.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

The overarm guard is very nice to work with. I am sure Felder wanted at least $1000 more for theirs as well. My saw has separate scoring motors. It seems to me that heavier /beefier trunnions and separate scoring motors are two of the main differences between entry level sliders and more industrial machines. Depending on your intended use of the saw that may or may not make any difference to you.

To be clear, the trunnion unit on any of these sliders is built differently and something like 10x the mass of a traditional cabinet saw. I doubt you'll see a trunnion wear out in your lifetime on a modern slider.

[Joe Hendershott]

My 2 month old SC4E has a digital scale. I believe it depends on the "package" that the vendor orders it.
I'm very happy with my SC4E. I'll be ordering an overarm guard this week, probably aftermarket.

Mine also came with the digital scale.

[John Erickson]

In 2004 I bought a new Altendorf F45 with DD Duplex and Palin acc., it's well built and has been a very dependable saw. At the time I considered buying a used Kolle , if I had my time back I would have went the used route. Kolle today are no longer produced had features no other saw had or has to this day. Look at the used market, you can get a used high end saw for the price of entry level machines.

[Christopher Solar]

Thanks, Brian. I won't be using the scoring blade all the time, and when I do it will be for a veneered panel or something like that and I'm sure the 5hp motor is going to have plenty of power to drive both blades. I mean, I cut stuff like this just fine with a 3hp cabinet saw...

Good to hear about the squaring fence. I don't imagine I'd remove the outrigger table, but the protruding fence might get in the way of shop traffic sometimes, so it will be handy if I can take it off and on without trouble.

My cabinet saw is used 95% of the time with just the riving knife. Then again, it has the insurance of the SawStop brake. TBH I'm a little anxious about moving back to a non-flesh-detecting saw so I'm interested in an effective guard!

[Jim Becker]

Christopher, one nice thing about a slider is with a lot of the cutting, one's hands are never near the blade. There certainly still is risk, but using the wagon and all it's capabilities helps reduce the risk.

[Warren Lake]

weeks ago someone told me about a friend of his in the kitchen bus, finally got a slider he always wanted, telling and showing it off. Said days later cut fingers off.

[Brian W Evans]

My 2 month old SC4E has a digital scale. I believe it depends on the "package" that the vendor orders it.
I'm very happy with my SC4E. I'll be ordering an overarm guard this week, probably aftermarket.

My 3-year-old SC4E did not come with a digital scale.

[Joe Hendershott]

My 3-year-old SC4E did not come with a digital scale.

My SC4e is only 3 months old. When you look at the specs it appears to be an option. The one I bought was already in production. Even with that the lead time was several months. I was told adding anything to it or an entirely different machine would add several more months.

[Mike Kreinhop]

weeks ago someone told me about a friend of his in the kitchen bus, finally got a slider he always wanted, telling and showing it off. Said days later cut fingers off.

Ahh...the irrefutable friend of a friend story. :rolleyes:

If true, I would like to know how this happened.

[Warren Lake]

True, didnt ask the shop name but its close to my area 10 minutes or bit more away. We had the family home sewers snaked three times and after two fails I asked would please bring a camera. As I was helping the now foreman they sent we talked a bit he asked what I did and then told me that.

To me i wonder how or what he did but didnt ask. easy enough to do I could send an email to the company and likely he would tell me, im not sure it would all feel good him going back to ask details on what he said. I only mentioned it as people say sliders are safter and im sure they are. I dont know if he had any training or what happened. I do have people I know who lost stuff on different machines and some friend of a friend that I have met several times that have lost fingers. Go work for the family bus when you had a different carreer before. I sort of see injuries two ways you had no training ever and you screwed up not knowing what is possible, Second people who make a living and are on there for tons of hours and get complacent and have deadline and other pressures 10 times the hobby day job thing. Realize that is too simplistic but lines up to the injured ones I know. Pressure not a ton of fun but usually part of it.

[Dave Cav]

I got a SC4E summer of 2019 at the AWFS show through Sam Blasco. It was delivered in around six weeks or so. It came with the digital angle indicator. I love the saw.

[Brian Ross]

I have a 10 ft slider and have looked at both the Cantek and SC4 E. I was impressed with the quality of the Cantek and nothing wrong with the Mini max. What would sway me was the difference in weight. The Cantek comes in at 1760 lbs and the SC 4 E at 1390 lbs. I always swayed towards mass when it comes to stationary tools.

Good luck with your journey

Brian

[Jim Becker]

Brian, that Cantelk seems to be more the weight of my S315WS. The SC4e is a little lighter but is still very robust.