Woodworking Bench on Welded Base

[Steve H Graham]

Let me commit blasphemy and say I'm thinking of building a new workbench that combines a welded steel rolling base with a fat wooden top with dog holes and a vise. Welding is fast and easy, and steel is much stronger for its volume than wood.

Anyone else trying this, or is it grounds for instant expulsion from the woodworking fraternity?

[johnny means]

We make welded bases for a lot of our furniture. Naturally, we end up doing the same for carts and work tables. I feel like pound for pound you lose some dampening.

[Alex Zeller]

The novice woodworker has no clue about wood movement and how to deal with it. The same is true for steel. Welding up a table that's square is not as simple as it sounds. If you are able to do it then there's nothing wrong with with what you are planning.

[Jim Becker]

I most of the cases, it would likely work just fine. Technically, my benches have metal bases because I use the Noden Adjust-A-Bench setup, actually. But for someone who does a lot of serious hand-tool woodworking, you kinda cannot beat the mass and damping that a stout and well made wood base brings to the table, pardon the expression.

And relax about the idea...plenty of woodworkers embrace using metal in their projects...wood and metal go together really nicely. I'd actually like to learn how to weld one of these days when I can make the investment in some gear, etc.

[Steve H Graham]

Fabrication with steel is a lot easier than woodworking, and it's one reason I'm not a better woodworker. The ease of throwing welded projects together discourages me from fooling with wood. If you can do woodworking, you will have no problems with fabrication.

Best way is to start with a stick welder, which is cheap and can provide very strong welds. Most people start with MIG, though, because it's so easy. If you start with stick, you'll be able to do things MIG people can't, you won't have to buy gas, and you'll be able to weld right through things like rust instead of cleaning your metal.

The current generation of welding machines doesn't suck as much power as the old ones, so you can do a lot without even installing a 220 socket.

It's nice to have tools for both wood and metal. I've used makeshift wooden braces, made on the band saw, to hold work in place while welding. The important thing is to remove them before they catch fire.

[Warren Lake]

welded legs 35 years ago simple and easy. Mig welder. Always blows me away to stick two things together and once cool thats it. Not waiting for hours or over night. Welding is an amazing thing. Benches work fine and had them till I got Ulmias. I made them so a tube in a tube and could change the height if wanted.

[Jack Frederick]

My current work table is steel base and I am just gearing up to make a split top bench with a steel base as well. 3” legs x 2” stretchers. The comments on dampening make me think I will sand fill the legs and may possibly add a mid-length leg as well. I just picked up the Benchcrafted Classic leg vise on classifieds. I will weld a 1.5” nipple through the leg to accommodate the screw and bolt a wooden leg to the face of the 3” steel to face up to the Classic. Best part of this may be that I bought some wood from a fellow ww. He offered to drop it by. When he saw my table he asked if I could build him a copy for a client. $1000! I’m no longer working and like to “create” funds for my “stuff.” “Yeah, I suppose I can do that;)” It is nice when the work comes to you.

[Jim Matthews]

My first bench was built this way.

The only caveat would be to put a non-marring finish or cladding where boards might contact steel.

[Tom Bussey]

I wouldn't want a bench with welded legs only because it wouldn't look right. But if you want to do it, then by all means build it with welded legs it is your bench. Benches with metal legs tend to slide on a floor more easily but if it happens I am sure you can figure out a way to make it stay put.

[Richard Coers]

Fabrication with steel is a lot easier than woodworking, and it's one reason I'm not a better woodworker. The ease of throwing welded projects together discourages me from fooling with wood. If you can do woodworking, you will have no problems with fabrication.

Best way is to start with a stick welder, which is cheap and can provide very strong welds. Most people start with MIG, though, because it's so easy. If you start with stick, you'll be able to do things MIG people can't, you won't have to buy gas, and you'll be able to weld right through things like rust instead of cleaning your metal.

The current generation of welding machines doesn't suck as much power as the old ones, so you can do a lot without even installing a 220 socket.

It's nice to have tools for both wood and metal. I've used makeshift wooden braces, made on the band saw, to hold work in place while welding. The important thing is to remove them before they catch fire.

I was a farm boy and did plenty of welding. It's my experience that you can get a twisted weldment just as easily as a twisted wood base. Improper welding procedures will pull the assembly. My biggest concern would be that rolling part. For my style of woodworking, wheels would be a constant source of frustration. Hand planes and wheels don't get along.

[Steve H Graham]

I was a farm boy and did plenty of welding. It's my experience that you can get a twisted weldment just as easily as a twisted wood base. Improper welding procedures will pull the assembly. My biggest concern would be that rolling part. For my style of woodworking, wheels would be a constant source of frustration. Hand planes and wheels don't get along.

If you've welded a lot, you must know that managing distortion is not hard, especially for big, simple projects. It's just part of the skill set. If a person can't created weldments that are sufficiently square, it just means he doesn't know what he's doing.

Wheels work fine if you have good ones with brakes, and you can also build a bench so the wheels only touch the ground when you move it. I put whatever I can on wheels. Beats dragging things and rupturing disks.

[Richard Coers]

If you've welded a lot, you must know that managing distortion is not hard, especially for big, simple projects. It's just part of the skill set. If a person can't created weldments that are sufficiently square, it just means he doesn't know what he's doing.

Wheels work fine if you have good ones with brakes, and you can also build a bench so the wheels only touch the ground when you move it. I put whatever I can on wheels. Beats dragging things and rupturing disks.
Brake casters don't work well enough for my work. I haven't moved my workbench in 25 years.

[Ed Mitchell]

Andy Klein did this 3+ years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjkjiB_9b-E

You can check out his YT channel for all the details. He even built a copy for Adam Savage (also on his YT channel)

[Tom Trees]

If you've welded a lot, you must know that managing distortion is not hard, especially for big, simple projects. It's just part of the skill set. If a person can't created weldments that are sufficiently square, it just means he doesn't know what he's doing.

Wheels work fine if you have good ones with brakes, and you can also build a bench so the wheels only touch the ground when you move it. I put whatever I can on wheels. Beats dragging things and rupturing disks.

I haven't seen casters that will lock them from swinging, aswell as locking the wheels,
Sounds dangerous if you can't do that, whilst non swivelling casters kinda defeats the purpose of making the bench mobile in the first place.

Forget about breaks on the casters, and just make them retractable is what I would suggest.
And that goes for everything.
https://youtu.be/5IaGUw4KdaE

This design might not work if the bench isn't heavy enough though.
Sounds like it might be quite a noisy bench to work on, if its gonna be your only bench.
Curious to see how you might overcome that, likely possible with a bit of thought.
Love to see a wee youtube demonstration if you figure that out

More power to your elbow!
Tom

[Bobby Robbinett]

Why not just get some 2”x3” steel angle and cut it for your legs then using 2”x3” box tubing cut that for your aprons and stretchers and instead of welding it together just use a drill press to bore holes in it and bolt it all together. That is what I am doing since I am not a proficient welder. Then make a 4” to 8” thick torsion box style wood top. I like to do this for all of our outfeed tables, stands, benches, ect.

The steel aprons and stretchers tend to not bow over time if braced sufficiently and they never wear out. You can make some brackets that you could bolt your casters on to. I like doing it like this and use a melamine top.

[Alex Zeller]

You can get "double locking casters" that lock both the wheels and the swivel but if you plan on doing any hammering that force will be sent to the casters. The plastic wheels may not like it. If you can weld I would look into making feet that drop down to support the table when it's where you want it, kind of like a mobile base for a tool.

[Jim Becker]

I haven't seen casters that will lock them from swinging, aswell as locking the wheels,
Double locking casters are quite common...they don't roll and they don't swivel when locked. I have multiple sets of them employed in my shop, under our kitchen island and on quite a few of the high end tack trunks (equestrian) that I've build for clients over the years.

That said, heavy hand work can still "move" a bench that's not fully rooted on the floor and even move one that is sometimes. I don't leave them on my CNC machine, either, because the movement of the gantry can exert enough force to cause vibration and movement...having the 4+" flat pads right on the floor eliminates that.

[Tom Bender]

A steel base would be good. Forget angle iron, this is not a place to save a few dollars. It's going to last ages. I'd look at 4" sch 40 pipe for the legs and 2" x 5" x 1/4" tubing for the apron. Slot the pipe to fit over the apron. No wheels for me, my bench rarely moves. A maple top 3" or 4" thick would be adequate. Rubber feet from Mc Master will keep it in place. Here's something similar in wood.

452572 452573

[Stan Calow]

I had a workbench with a steel frame and 2" maple top. I bought it at Sam's Club where it was being sold as a restaurant kitchen table. I added a vise and a few dog holes, and used it for years as my main woodworking bench. I still use it mostly for assembly and storage.

[Ryan Yeaglin]

The novice woodworker has no clue about wood movement and how to deal with it. The same is true for steel. Welding up a table that's square is not as simple as it sounds. If you are able to do it then there's nothing wrong with with what you are planning.


Keeping a frame square from carbon steel isn't hard at all, use stainless steel and that statment above will be VERY true.

[Steve H Graham]

Brake casters don't work well enough for my work. I haven't moved my workbench in 25 years.

Your casters weren't big enough.

If casters aren't your thing, as I said, you can add leveling feet that lift the bench off the casters.

[Steve H Graham]

Andy Klein did this 3+ years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjkjiB_9b-E

You can check out his YT channel for all the details. He even built a copy for Adam Savage (also on his YT channel)

I have been watching his stuff this week.

At first, I was awestruck by the Savage bench, but the more I looked at it, the more I thought it was poorly engineered.

First of all, it's extremely heavy, and it doesn't have casters built in. That means a forklift or some other kind of machine is needed every time Savage wants to move it. Putting a heavy machine without casters in a shop is like letting a construction crew come in and reduce the size of the shop by 30 square feet. It's just not smart.

Second, for the legs, he used square tubing that appears to be around 5" thick with 1/2" walls. That's just insane. Depending on the size he used, it will run 20-30 pounds per foot, and each leg is three feet long! I built a shooting bench with 2" tubing with 11-gauge walls, and it's like a bridge abutment. I should have used 1" tubing. The legs on Savage's bench must weigh something like 60 pounds each, and about 50 pounds don't need to be there.

Third, the top is extremely thick. People are building torsion-box benches that seem much smarter to me. You can put tools inside them (destroying clutter), they weigh much less, you can design them for use with bench dogs and holdfasts, and replacing the tops is quick and inexpensive. Savage is so afraid of scratching that fancy top, he put a piece of leather on top of it to protect it. I would want to use cheap lumber I'm not afraid to ruin.

"Beefy" tools are very trendy, but needless "beefiness" is one of the things good engineers try to avoid. It's a well-known, much-discussed hallmark of incompetence. If you take a look at books on weldments, for example, you'll see that one of the main goals of engineering them correctly is to avoid wasting steel and creating ponderous, overpriced weldments that are expensive to manufacture and ship. Anybody can make a strong, heavy object. It takes an engineer to make it light.

Fourth, he put two magnificent geared vises on it, but they don't do much a Veritas vise won't do, and you can buy Veritas right now instead of waiting for Mr. Klein to fabricate a vise for you. His vises have transmissions so you can open and close them quickly, but I'm not all that worried about losing 7 seconds now and then. I made myself a Moxon vise. If I cared about speed, I would just install half-nuts in it.

Fifth, he made really neat bench dogs held in place by magnets. They sit flush with the table until you pull them up. I don't see any real improvement over the dogs Paul Sellers makes in 5 minutes from scrap dowels and coat hangers. They do pretty much the same thing.

Every time I see a video featuring this guy's tools, they look great at first, but later on, I start to realize they're not necessarily better than things that are already available. It's beautiful stuff, but I wouldn't want to own it. He made a table saw guard that looked really neat, but I thought it was a recipe for personal injury lawsuits. I really like my Shark Guard.

I am aware that it's easy for me to get drawn into the trap of making beautiful tools instead of making practical tools to make beautiful things. It's something I try to avoid. Klein's tools are gorgeous and clever, but there is no way I'd buy his plans.

I have an idea for a bench based on the Paulk design, using a top with a frame of 1" square tubing instead of plywood sides. I think it ought to work very well. Probably won't win any beauty contests.

[Michael W. Clark]

Fifth, he made really neat bench dogs held in place by magnets. They sit flush with the table until you pull them up. I don't see any real improvement over the dogs Paul Sellers makes in 5 minutes from scrap dowels and coat hangers. They do pretty much the same thing.

I noticed those too. I would want the flat side toward the work piece. If that's the case, then you have to raise them the full thickness of the head to rotate them. That is a problem if the material you are planing is thinner than the stop head thickness.

If you only need the round part and not the flat, why have the flat then? I like cool looking things too, but didn't understand the design of those.

[Tom Trees]

"Beefy" tools are very trendy, .
For good reason, might not matter if you're not going to do any chiseling, planing or sawing, or indeed need something rigid.
Nothing stopping Andrew from making multiple changes to the bench if he wants/needs to, 'tis the best thing about steel. infinitely changeable with little need for
much structural designing, just weld a bracket on and Bob's your uncle.:)
I do wonder how loud it would be compared to a timber base chopping mortises.

The Paulk design looks handy enough if your taking it to the site, if you've got a truck and working on long projects, the design is the same if one wanted to make it more compact,
but no good for doing hand work in the workshop.
Both benches made for their specific uses, it ain't a case of one versus the other.

Tom

[Steve H Graham]

For good reason, might not matter if you're not going to do any chiseling, planing or sawing, or indeed need something rigid.
Nothing stopping Andrew from making multiple changes to the bench if he wants/needs to, 'tis the best thing about steel. infinitely changeable with little need for
much structural designing, just weld a bracket on and Bob's your uncle.:)
I do wonder how loud it would be compared to a timber base chopping mortises.

If you make a bench from 2" tubing with 11-gauge walls, it will be motionless no matter what you do on it. When I made my shooting bench, I jumped up and down in the middle of it, and nothing happened. Even the wood refused to flex, and the top is just one layer of two-by-sixes. Adding material in order to make up for a lack of skill is one of the errors that put manufacturers out of business, and the need to avoid it is why they pay engineers.

There are tables that show what kind of loads tubing can take. A 5" tube can hold tons in compression. One leg of the Klein bench contains more steel in cross section than the bases of four jackstands that can hold up a pickup truck. Take a look at the steel in car lifts and then compare it to the Klein bench.

As for changing his bench, cutting 1/2" steel is very hard for nearly all DIY people. Best way would be to make crude cuts with a plasma cutter or gas torch, and then you would have a lot of grinding to do to clean it up.

Thick slabs of maple aren't fun to modify, either. They're not exactly modular.

[Tom Trees]

I reckon it looks about a sound weight to be honest, the design has no strecher so one can't simply put a lock of timber underneath to help weigh it down.
The lack of a strecher might be a big benefit for someone who would pay a heck of a lot of money for that space otherwise, could fit a lot of stuff underneath that bench.
It would work well with this excellent design.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZvU2tyiMjM

Maybe 1/2" thick might be a bit on the heavy side, but is that soo much more expensive than 5mm box...
One could fill it with cement, but would it be worth the hassle if one wanted to make the caster design as above?
I've only ever bought lengths of angle iron and flat stock, 30 something quid for 6 meters of 50x50x5 angle iron,
so don't know the cost factor in buying box 1/2" thick compared to a thinner gauge of box iron.

Indeed I wonder what the difference in cost of buying box iron compared to what angle iron is,
I asked for a sheet in my local place for a rough guideline, but was unable to get one, that be way too much faff for the boyo's.https://sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/confused.gif

Heavy planing will move a bench, I shudder when I see folks sawing on a wobbly bench, just asking for a kink.
Still wonder how quiet the bench is to chop on, many folk would pay through their nose to have a quieter bench also.
I wonder how much quieter the bench is compared to if it were a thinner gauge, worth a prototype?

As for a big heavy top, yes it needs to be that way if doing old skool hand work, a thin top will bounce if chopping mortises on.
Never mind one made from a sheet of plywood.

Tom

[Mike Rambour]

most of my benches are steel framed with a good top on them...welding up a frame is just so much quicker and easier than building one out of wood (for me anyway). And its easy to make a leg or other piece longer if you cut it too short (I might have done that once or twice) and not lose any strength.

[Steve H Graham]

Mass is what people throw at projects when they don't have any ideas to throw. Eliminating unneeded material is one of the main goals of engineering. Companies that can't do it go out of business.

I saw some neat videos by Ron Paulk, the guy who designed the Paulk bench. He takes less than a minute to set one of his benches up, all by himself. He stands on his benches and jumps up and down, even though they rest on plywood sawhorses. Pretty impressive. It was funny to hear him say exactly what I said: anyone can make things heavy and strong; smart people make them strong and light.

I don't know if Paulk benches are intended for woodworking or just carpentry, but he really knows what he's doing. I think Klein may be more about eye candy. I believe a bench similar to Paulk's can be made extremely rigid by adding a stringer or two. It would take all the bounce out. Drilling holes down through stringers would make the bench suitable for using holdfasts.

[Tom Trees]

For what purpose do you wish to design this bench for Steve? its rather intriguing.
If you want it portable for site work, then consider making the legs foldable, with some sort of a sprung pin for rigidity.
I made something like that using a mesh door I had hanging around, originally made for the missus tie dye stall, but doubles up as a bench for glue ups in winter in the house.
I didn't make it super portable by adding a slot to the bracket, or offsetting the holes so the second legs would sit flush, might have been worth considering.
Might do a few more adjustments to it yet, when the other plastic table properly breaks.
I was more concerned about making it super lightweight than having need for rigidity.
For a bench though
Be interesting to see what you come up with regarding wheeling it out of a van vertically, or flat packed, whilst still making use of those wheels for rolling around while assembled.
That would make a better design of bench IMO, if you're wanting to design something for the jobsite.
The Paulk bench is popular because of the DIY aspect, rather than making something to buy off the shelf.
I take it that's why you are so keen on this approach?

Tom

[Steve H Graham]

With the virus hysteria and resulting inactivity behind me, I got my shop cleaned up so I can actually use it, so I am thinking of getting back to this project. In fact, I am thinking I'll make two benches. One for wood and one for general use. I don't think anyone has come up with a way to make a general-use bench that works with bench dogs. Perhaps I am wrong.

I have thought about the retracting-caster problem, and I now think it's smarter to bring the feet down than to bring the casters down. Contraptions that lower casters on hinges are pretty complex and cumbersome, but any goofball can make feet on big screws.

I am tentatively planning to use laminated 2x4 tops because they are easy to make, which fits in well with my lack of skill.

Seems to me wood people and metal people should steal ideas from each other instead of trying to make their favorite materials do everything. Woodworkers knocked it out of the park when they invented laminated tops, and steel is great for making frames.

I am considering putting a lot of trapezoids into the base instead of rectangles, because trapezoids are very stiff and hate to wobble. Metalworkers love right angles because they make everything easy, but they seem to be bad engineering. Collapsing a rectangle is way easier than collapsing a trapezoid or a triangle. A rectangle's corners always want to be hinges.

[Jim Becker]

I don't think anyone has come up with a way to make a general-use bench that works with bench dogs.

It's kinda only a matter of having the appropriate perforations in the surface to use the type(s) of bench dogs you want to employ. Simple dogs, stops, etc., just need round holes of either .75" or 20mm, depending on what system you want to use. Holdfasts, however, require a thick surface due to how they work and are "generally" oriented toward .75" round holes. In the end, you just need to plan for the accessories you want to use and for the "density" of locations required for your intended use. That could be really simple...just a few holes along an edge, or a complete grid. Very flexible.

[Jack Frederick]

I am in much the same situation, Steve. I snapped out at the condition of the shop a couple weeks ago and shut things down for a cleaning re-set. I have a rather large steel gate re-hab I am doing for my daughters place and that is finishing up. As a result of the clean-up I had to move the maple for the top I intend to use for the bench so it has resurfaced so to speak. As to using casters on a bench on the one I pictured on my first post here I wanted “limited” mobility. I wanted to be able to move it but not roll it around easily as it is not required in my shop. I had some 3/4 HDPE which I made into feet on that bench. If I get the weight off the bench I can throw a sling around one end an slide it, with some effort, to its new location and the HDPE hasn’t given out and provides a non-marring surface to the feet. I’ll do the same on the new bench.

[Steve H Graham]

It's kinda only a matter of having the appropriate perforations in the surface to use the type(s) of bench dogs you want to employ. Simple dogs, stops, etc., just need round holes of either .75" or 20mm, depending on what system you want to use. Holdfasts, however, require a thick surface due to how they work and are "generally" oriented toward .75" round holes. In the end, you just need to plan for the accessories you want to use and for the "density" of locations required for your intended use. That could be really simple...just a few holes along an edge, or a complete grid. Very flexible.

I mean putting holes in a bench is fine for woodworking, but it causes problems for other things.

[Jim Becker]

I mean putting holes in a bench is fine for woodworking, but it causes problems for other things.

Very true, so one must consider carefully what is "required" to do what is needed vs the "universal adaptability" of a complete grid. My auxiliary bench has a more minimalistic approach to holes for that reason and if I build something more dedicated to assembly for the new shop building, it will likely have a lot more "solid surface" than my main workbench does.